Author Topic: ARB Handling question  (Read 2497 times)

Offline mk3tony

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ARB Handling question
« on: 30 September 2012, 20:09 »
Whats the best of the OEM arb's for handling? I need one that goes under the driveshaft regardless but as i'm on 19's I need every bit of help i can get to stop the boat like characteristics!
2001 1.8T AUM - Rtech Spec 1 Custom Map, Catch Can, Cone Filter, 209bhp 237 lb/ft, SuperPro Wishbone and Rear Beam Bushes, Jom Coilovers, 19" BBS CH Reps

Offline Steve_PD

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Re: ARB Handling question
« Reply #1 on: 30 September 2012, 20:32 »
Click on the sticky

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=217884.0

Read through to find the topic you're after...

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=224905.0

Your questions are answered.... :whistle:
I often wonder why people never expect sarcastic comments from me - they're the only reason I speak...

Offline mk3tony

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Re: ARB Handling question
« Reply #2 on: 01 October 2012, 18:00 »
Click on the sticky

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=217884.0

Read through to find the topic you're after...

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=224905.0

Your questions are answered.... :whistle:
I know what fits but what i wanted to know was which one is best for improving handling as there are different thicknesses. Does the fact that the r32 bar is 23mm mean it is better even though its longer than the others?
2001 1.8T AUM - Rtech Spec 1 Custom Map, Catch Can, Cone Filter, 209bhp 237 lb/ft, SuperPro Wishbone and Rear Beam Bushes, Jom Coilovers, 19" BBS CH Reps

Offline SI74

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Re: ARB Handling question
« Reply #3 on: 01 October 2012, 18:12 »
Look on eBay for an Audi S3 ARB and buy it there the same as the R32.  The R32 one shouldn't be longer at the end of the day there bolting on the same place just under the shafts. Also the front ARB won't make that much of a difference what ever one you go for, a rear ARB fitted to the car will.

Offline mk3tony

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Re: ARB Handling question
« Reply #4 on: 03 October 2012, 18:38 »
Look on eBay for an Audi S3 ARB and buy it there the same as the R32.  The R32 one shouldn't be longer at the end of the day there bolting on the same place just under the shafts. Also the front ARB won't make that much of a difference what ever one you go for, a rear ARB fitted to the car will.
Top bloke! thanks buddy!
2001 1.8T AUM - Rtech Spec 1 Custom Map, Catch Can, Cone Filter, 209bhp 237 lb/ft, SuperPro Wishbone and Rear Beam Bushes, Jom Coilovers, 19" BBS CH Reps

Offline Prawny

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Re: ARB Handling question
« Reply #5 on: 03 October 2012, 23:38 »
hmmmmmmmm. Top bloke for trying perhaps, but all the info is wrong.....

The S3 bar is not the same as the R32 bar at all.

The R32 has a heavy V6, and comes with a 23mm front bar, the S3 with the 1.8T comes with a 19mm front bar.

the efficiency of these bars, and thus how you calculate sizes, varies hugely depending on how you fit them.

If you fit the 19mm S3 bar using std mk4 drop links to the wishbones, it'll be much less effective than the stock 21mm mk4 bar

If you fit the 19mm S3 bar properly using S3 struts and drop links, it'll be more effective than the 21mm mk4 bar, due to the S3 bar acting directly on the strut, and not half way along the lever arm of the wishbone, which reduces it's effect.

S174 says that the choice of front bar won't matter, but it does, hugely.

If you fitted a 23mm R32 front bar, and mounted it in stock mk4 wishbone style, it would be a slight upgrade from stock, and would make the car understeer more.

If you then mounted it properly to the strut R32/S3 style, it would be more effective again, and make the car understeer even more.

You need to think about what size rear bar you want to add, or indeed what you might already have fitted, and how you want to change or retain the balance (oversteer/understeer) of the car.

Fitting a larger front bar will mean you need a proportionally larger rear bar again to  experience the gains of a rear ARB that are so often talked about. Fitting a larger front bar then an average sized rear bar will just bring terrible handling back to average.

Offline mk3tony

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Re: ARB Handling question
« Reply #6 on: 03 October 2012, 23:46 »
hmmmmmmmm. Top bloke for trying perhaps, but all the info is wrong.....

The S3 bar is not the same as the R32 bar at all.

The R32 has a heavy V6, and comes with a 23mm front bar, the S3 with the 1.8T comes with a 19mm front bar.

the efficiency of these bars, and thus how you calculate sizes, varies hugely depending on how you fit them.

If you fit the 19mm S3 bar using std mk4 drop links to the wishbones, it'll be much less effective than the stock 21mm mk4 bar

If you fit the 19mm S3 bar properly using S3 struts and drop links, it'll be more effective than the 21mm mk4 bar, due to the S3 bar acting directly on the strut, and not half way along the lever arm of the wishbone, which reduces it's effect.

S174 says that the choice of front bar won't matter, but it does, hugely.

If you fitted a 23mm R32 front bar, and mounted it in stock mk4 wishbone style, it would be a slight upgrade from stock, and would make the car understeer more.

If you then mounted it properly to the strut R32/S3 style, it would be more effective again, and make the car understeer even more.

You need to think about what size rear bar you want to add, or indeed what you might already have fitted, and how you want to change or retain the balance (oversteer/understeer) of the car.

Fitting a larger front bar will mean you need a proportionally larger rear bar again to  experience the gains of a rear ARB that are so often talked about. Fitting a larger front bar then an average sized rear bar will just bring terrible handling back to average.
awesome information man, thanks a lot.

So i'm on joms at the moment and was planning on using standard drop links and standard mounting, so just straight swap.

i'm not after a track set up but just wanted less body roll with better handling, whats the best set up without breaking the bank?
2001 1.8T AUM - Rtech Spec 1 Custom Map, Catch Can, Cone Filter, 209bhp 237 lb/ft, SuperPro Wishbone and Rear Beam Bushes, Jom Coilovers, 19" BBS CH Reps

Offline Prawny

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Re: ARB Handling question
« Reply #7 on: 03 October 2012, 23:57 »
OK, if you're wanting an under ARB OEM bar that will reduce body roll, the S3 bar is not for you, as mounted on the stock drop links it'll offer less resistance to bodyroll.

What you need for that application is an R32 23mm bar as an upgrade from your stock 21mm bar.

As is always the case, stiffening the front will induce a tiny bit more understeer, so if you wanted to combat that and make it better I'd look at something like a 25mm rear bar, or if you're feeling flush, a neuspeed 28mm rear would be the bollocks!

Offline 1.6mk4GOLF16v

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Re: ARB Handling question
« Reply #8 on: 04 October 2012, 02:06 »
Whats the best of the OEM arb's for handling? I need one that goes under the driveshaft regardless but as i'm on 19's I need every bit of help i can get to stop the boat like characteristics!

wats the offset on ur wheels mate? u using spacers n do u get any rubbing?
1.6 16v AZD
RS8s 225/35/19
Full powerflow decat exhaust
Blanked EGR
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watch this space for the rest...

Offline 1.6mk4GOLF16v

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Re: ARB Handling question
« Reply #9 on: 04 October 2012, 02:10 »
OK, if you're wanting an under ARB OEM bar that will reduce body roll, the S3 bar is not for you, as mounted on the stock drop links it'll offer less resistance to bodyroll.

What you need for that application is an R32 23mm bar as an upgrade from your stock 21mm bar.

As is always the case, stiffening the front will induce a tiny bit more understeer, so if you wanted to combat that and make it better I'd look at something like a 25mm rear bar, or if you're feeling flush, a neuspeed 28mm rear would be the nuts!

ive managed to get hold of a r32 roll bar, need to know if i gotta change the drop links or can i just use the ones that are already in there?
1.6 16v AZD
RS8s 225/35/19
Full powerflow decat exhaust
Blanked EGR
Pipercross panel filter
watch this space for the rest...