Author Topic: Rejecting my Golf  (Read 15223 times)

Offline DRC

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #10 on: 12 April 2011, 23:29 »
Letters were sent off Friday.
But I've also been enquiring about a few GTI's,
Seen a black 5 Door, 2006, 29k miles, Bi-Xenons, Leather, Sunroof etc. Just needs a Sat Nav :P
And also a fairly basic grey GTI with Sat Nav from a VW main dealer but with 43k miles, so we shall see what happens.
Also found out my car isn't on HP or PCP, it's an unsecured loan against me, so in theory, I own all rights to the car :) so they say..... didn't tell me this when I bought it, found out myself on the loan agreement.
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Offline Buck

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #11 on: 13 April 2011, 00:03 »
Good Luck Dan

Do you not fancy another Mk VI and mod it as you were planning with this one?

Offline DRC

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #12 on: 17 April 2011, 20:24 »
Had two letters back,
One from the garage saying that, due to the problems being fixed under warranty at no cost to me I can't reject the car?
The other from the finance company saying they're looking into the matter.
But I've been making a few enquiries about new cars and I've provisionally swapped my car for a 2008 Seat Leon Cupra :) its done 39k miles, in metallic silver but its a bit of a distance from me, so going to look on Friday :)

Thanks for everyone's help
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Offline The Mighty Elvi

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #13 on: 17 April 2011, 23:19 »
Hope you get the car sorted. As your Solicitor would have told you, the Small Claims Court has a limit of £5K.  Anything above will have to be dealt with by the County Court.

All this is covered by The Sales of Goods Act 1979, and the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1994.

The car would be covered by the "of unsatisfactory quality" clause.

Here's some more info for you...enjoy.

You have to invoke the Sale of Goods Act 1979 Part II Section 14, as modified by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, subsequently modified by the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994, contending that the supplier is in breach of contract to you for supplying a car which was not "of satisfactory quality", or did not remain so for a reasonable period of time.

Appeal Court Case law (Bernstein v Palmerston Motors 1987) has held that the supplier must be given three chances to rectify the fault for which the goods are rejected and must have failed to do so. The goods must be returned to the supplier together with all keys and paperwork. (Scott and Scott v Blade Motor Company 1997.) And the supplier (in the case of a car the dealer principal of the dealership) must be sent a letter by recorded delivery detailing why the car has been rejected as not "of satisfactory quality".

Case law (Rogers v Parrish 1987) has put a limit of 6 months on the time you can successfully reject a car and obtain a full refund, though lesser refunds, taking account of mileage covered, may be obtained outside that period. The price you pay compared to market value will be taken into account. So if you buy a cheap car on trade terms you cannot reject it under the Act. And if you buy a cheap car (under £2,000) on retail terms from a trader, you cannot reasonably expect it to be perfect.

The Supreme Court verdict in Clegg v Olle Anderson (trading as Nordic Marine) 11-3-2003 has caused some confusion which some believe to have overruled Bernstein v Palmerston Motors 1987. In this case a yacht was supplied with an overweight keel in breach of its specification which formed part of the original contract. It was held that Clegg could reject the yacht at more than 6 months from date of purchase even though Mr Anderson had offered to make modifications to try to correct the fault. Basically, because the yacht had originally been supplied "of unsatisfactory quality" and this was admitted, Mr Clegg retained the right to reject it. For Clegg v Olle Anderson to apply to other cases, it must be proven that the fault existed on the date of sale and constituted a breach of the original purchase contract. Clegg v Olle Anderson cannot apply where a fault develops at some time after purchase. In those cases, Bernstein v Palmerston Motors 1987 still applies and the dealer has to be given three clear chances to rectify the problem.

The Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002, is derived from EU Directive 1999/44/EU which became Clauses 48A to 48F inclusive of the Sale of Goods act in April 2003. This reverses the burden of proof so that if goods go faulty within six months after purchase it is deemed they were faulty at the time of purchase and the trader has the onus of proving that the item is not defective due to a manufacturing defect.

 

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs) contains a general prohibition against unfair commercial practices and, in particular prohibitions against misleading actions, misleading omissions and aggressive commercial practices. The Regulations are enforceable through the civil and criminal courts.

www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/buying-selling/sale-supply/sale-of-good-act/page8600.html , www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023045.htm and http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk

This creates an offence of misleading omissions which would not previously have been an offence if the consumer had not asked the right questions. So if a salesman knows a car has, for example, been badly damaged and repaired and does not tell the customer, he could later be held liable if the customer subsequently discovered that the car had been damaged and repaired. As far as I know this has yet to be tested in court and there are no case precedents. As soon as there are and I am made aware I will include them

during the first six months:

The consumer returns the goods in the first six months from the date of sale and requests a repair or replacement or a partial refund. In that case, the consumer does not have to prove the goods were faulty at the time of sale. It is assumed that they were. If the retailer does not agree, it is for the retailer to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale. This comes from Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002, derived from EU Directive 1999/44/EU which became Clauses 48A to 48F inclusive of the Sale of Goods act in April 2003

after the first six months:

Under sale of goods legislation (Sale of Goods Act 1979, Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994) consumers are entitled to expect that any goods they buy are of satisfactory quality. That is, that the goods meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory taking into account the way they are described, their price, and any other relevant circumstances, such as the fact that they are second-hand or used. ... ..

If a product that was not of satisfactory quality at the time of the sale is returned to the retailer, the buyer is entitled to a full refund (if it is within a reasonable time of the sale), or, if a “reasonable time “ has elapsed, to a reasonable amount of compensation, or to have the goods repaired. The consumer needs to demonstrate the goods were not of satisfactory quality at the time of sale. This is so if the consumer chooses to request an immediate refund or compensation. It is also the case for any product returned more than six months after the date of sale.

If the amount is less than £5,000 and qualifies for the Small Claims Court then any decision made does not become case law.

However, if it goes to the County Court, then a decision does become case law. County Court rulings can be overruled by Appeal Court rulings which then become case law. And cases will be argued on the facts. So though the Sale and Supply of Goods Act may appear to give you rights, your true rights are governed by case law and asserting them can be very expensive.

Jonathan.

Offline Radek

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #14 on: 18 April 2011, 11:55 »
Of course you can reject it. What a pile of sh.. they are talking about!

They have sold you a faulty product and it's their responsibility to rectify the problem. The 3 repair attempts are not always required by law - it's a good reference point though. If a vehicle you've been sold was a 1.6 instead of a 1.8 you wouldn't wait for 3 repairs - you would demand refund or replacement.

However if they do indeed genuinely repair it, you would have a real struggle rejecting the car. You could probably claim for inconvenience or stress but to reject it after it’s been repaired (at no cost to you) would be difficult. Unless of course they can’t fix it and there’s problems piling up one after another. “A reasonable time” should be given them to fix the problems.

It takes time and will be stressful but rest assured you are fully within your rights, you are right and you will get it sorted in the end.

Good luck
Golf GTI VI DSG - died on the road, resurrected, came back as zombi, sold
R - rising blue, 5-door, DSG, ACC, something something...

Offline The Mighty Elvi

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #15 on: 18 April 2011, 12:02 »
The 3 repair attempts are not always required by law - it's a good reference point though. If a vehicle you've been sold was a 1.6 instead of a 1.8 you wouldn't wait for 3 repairs - you would demand refund or replacement.



No. The 3 repair attempts at repairing THE SAME FAULT, is law.

Your second point is to do with goods not being as described,  which is different.


Offline DRC

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #16 on: 22 April 2011, 20:35 »
All was well today, went to test drive the Cupra I'm swapping for, thought to myself, 240bhp suits my perfectly :)
Everything all set up perfectly, rang my finance company who after telling me TWICE previously that they'll remove the HIP marker, they not WON'T.
I'm p*ssed to say the least. I ask why, he kept contradicting himself saying he can't remove it but they have no financial interest in the car?? So why put one on?? After a quick Google it seems they do it to keep 'tabs' on the car and for repossession etc.
I have a FIXED SUM LOAN AGREEMENT and from what I can tell, they have no right to put a marker on the car. So once again, down another legal battle route.
I own all rights to the car, they've previously told me they'll do it. This time they're not getting away with it.
Deal is sweet for the Cupra, has tax until 01/01/12 so I said I didn't want new tax, so he came back and said, 'Oh, Mr Chapman, we'll give you £200 back then into your account' I was shocked, a car garage giving money back?!?!
So, hopefully this will get sorted, anyone else had any problems similar?
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Offline am1w

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #17 on: 22 April 2011, 20:52 »
It will work out ok. I hated dealing with Finance Companies when I was young.
Now, in my dotage, I pay cash for nearly everything and always negotiate a bloody good discount. Cash is King.
What's the Insurance on a 240 bhp car? You're a power junkie. Still, when one is young the ooomph is very handy!  :grin:
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Offline DRC

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #18 on: 22 April 2011, 21:48 »
Insurance is just under 1100 :) that's with admiral.
Made me laugh, she said it'll be 39 pounds to swap until my renewal in May and then I asked how much for the next year and said they couldnt quote me?!
I turned round and said elephant will insure me :) she soon turned round and matched the price :p
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Offline am1w

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Re: Rejecting my Golf
« Reply #19 on: 22 April 2011, 22:06 »
Insurance is just under 1100 :) that's with admiral.
Made me laugh, she said it'll be 39 pounds to swap until my renewal in May and then I asked how much for the next year and said they couldnt quote me?!
I turned round and said elephant will insure me :) she soon turned round and matched the price :p

Excellent!
Elephant buy their insurance from Admiral. I also played one against the other and got a super quote from Admiral! Now insured with the latter. :smiley:
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