ABS in the snow

[Rolfe]

I agree with Ben with the fact that if you have only 1 pair of winter tyres then I'd stick them on the back. I rather have a f*ck load of understeer instead of a f*ck load of oversteer. Understeer is FAR safer than oversteer. The weight of the engien at the front is enough to help the front tyres bite into the ice and snow, where as at the rear, on summer tyres, it'll be like watching bambi dance on ice.

Srsly, which actual planet are you on, dude?

My car really was like Bambi on ice this time last year.  I actually had to abandon one journey and go back, because there was no way I could reach my destination, which was on a hill.  There were days when I couldn't get into my garage just because of a tiny slope on the drive.  The front wheels just spun uselessly.

And you know what?  The engine weighed just the same then as it does now.

I've been running around merrily in up to a foot of the white stuff this year, including getting into work on the infamous 6th December (and more importantly home again), and all the previous week, and the thing is running as if it's on caterpillar tracks.  I didn't even bother to shovel my drive this morning for just two measly inches - just drove over it, out and back in.  Wheelspin?  What wheelspin?

With two winter wheels on the front.

And no hint of oversteer at all.  Or understeer, or anything.  If you're going to throw your car around in the snow sufficiently to make it oversteer, then do us all a favour and keep it in your drive.

Which is exactly where it will be if you put winter tyres on the rear only.

PS: Watch videos from major tyre manufacturers about where to put 2 new tyres. They all choose the back for the reasons I said, nevermind what car it is or where the drive goes to.

And the day when this observation is even remotely relevant to what we're discussing, which is how to stop a Mk VI from going nowhere in the snow, then I'm sure we'll get back to you.

Rolfe.

[Ess_Three]

The weight of the engien at the front is enough to help the front tyres bite into the ice and snow,

Are you serious?
Jesus wept...only from a south coast dweller could you hear a comment like this!

I have failed to fit winter tyres only once in the last 8-9 winters...and I was running my Mk3 at the time. I couldn't get the car out of the driveway.
Despite the car having an engine...its weight was little use...and there was little by way of biting being done by my tyres.

There is a well known saying that suggests when theory and reality collide, reality wins. Every time.
You can suppose all you like, post as much internet evidance as you like and preach from the highest soapbox in the world...but real world is real world.
People that live in areas where they actually get winters (not a few flakes of snow to upset the shandy drinkers) have been managing just fine with winter tyres on the front only...nobody dies.

This fact has been ignored time and time again...
As has the function and operation of the factory fitted ESP system on a Mk6 GTI.

Maybe if someone posted that ACTUALLY HAS a Mk6 GTI and ACTUALLY SUFFERED uber-death causing oversteer, I'd pay more attention.
Until that point, I think i'll keep repying on personal experience...and retain the ability to drive somewhere in winter.

Rather than being 'Safe as f**k' with my winter tyres on the rear only, and remaining stuck in my driveway.

[JC]

what a  bunch of pussys. 

earlier this year mine was the only car that moved off our street, and the next one for that matter - remember Benson was the coldest place in the UK  - FACT

it did 300 miles in 8 days running the wife and eldest 2 kids to work, albeit a 8 mile round trip, when your doing it 3 times a day  and then shopping for street to, the miles add up

and all this on toyo T1r's  never got stuck, only once met the hedge but that was me trying a j turn


























the fact they were fitted to a skuda feliatio worth £300 is here nor there 

[R32UK]

^^

and the morale of the story is...... buy a skuda and pocket the extra £300 you would habve spent on winter tyres

[Snoopy]

the fact they were fitted to a skuda feliatio worth £300 is here nor there 

my sh!tsu yrv has had no problem with summer tyres this past couple of years but then it has no power and 165 tyres as standard. I did change them earlier this month to a set of 145 snows as i got them cheap as part of a deal i did for ones for the mk6 GTI which basically rubbish in the snow on summer tyres due to its 200+ bhp high torque and 225 summer tyres. If car manufactuers had not gone silly with tyre widths on shopping cars over the years the country would not grind to a halt. To think in the 80s our audi 100 was only running 185s as were all hothatches and basic shopping cart golfs ran 145x13 or 155x13. Even Audi ur-quattros only had 205's. I never got stuck in the bad winters of the late 80s or early 90s when running minis with 145x12s summer tyres 

[Rolfe]

The weight of the engien at the front is enough to help the front tyres bite into the ice and snow,

Are you serious?
Jesus wept...only from a south coast dweller could you hear a comment like this!

I'd actually like to see him try that!  Especially if I was nearby with a videocamera.  Except I might not be able to keep it steady for laughing....

I think the disconnect here is that those of us who actually live with the snow (Ess_Three, how is it with you, I hear scary stuff on the radio this morning....) are thinking about actually moving, getting out of our drives, getting up a hill that hasn't been gritted, getting out of a car park if it's snowed and then frozen while we were there.  We know perfectly well that once moving we'll be driving quite slowly and very carefully.  Nobody throws their cars into bends when the temperature is -6^oC (as it is here right now) and there's snow and ice on the road.  So we know where we need the traction - on the drive wheels.  And we know that since the drive wheels on the Golf are also the steering wheels and the main braking wheels, the other two are relatively unimportant.

Those theorising from their ivory towers about putting winter tyres on the rear only are making a huge, unwarranted assumption.  They're assuming they will actually be able to get going, and will be out there driving on roads that are clear enough for them to put on a bit of speed and start driving that GTi as they want to drive him.  That's when concerns about oversteer might apply.

It doesn't happen, guys.

In these conditions, nobody drives in a manner that's likely to cause any sort of snap oversteer.  Hell, you're lucky if you make 40mph on a clear, straight road.  And you slow right down going into bends.

But you do get there.  Which you definitely won't if you put the tyres with the traction on the wheels that are only there to keep the rear end of your car from dragging on the tarmac.

Rolfe.

[Ben Lessani]

The weight of the engien at the front is enough to help the front tyres bite into the ice and snow,

Are you serious?
Jesus wept...only from a south coast dweller could you hear a comment like this!

I'd actually like to see him try that!  Especially if I was nearby with a videocamera.  Except I might not be able to keep it steady for laughing....

I think the disconnect here is that those of us who actually live with the snow (Ess_Three, how is it with you, I hear scary stuff on the radio this morning....) are thinking about actually moving, getting out of our drives, getting up a hill that hasn't been gritted, getting out of a car park if it's snowed and then frozen while we were there.  We know perfectly well that once moving we'll be driving quite slowly and very carefully.  Nobody throws their cars into bends when the temperature is -6^oC (as it is here right now) and there's snow and ice on the road.  So we know where we need the traction - on the drive wheels.  And we know that since the drive wheels on the Golf are also the steering wheels and the main braking wheels, the other two are relatively unimportant.

Those theorising from their ivory towers about putting winter tyres on the rear only are making a huge, unwarranted assumption.  They're assuming they will actually be able to get going, and will be out there driving on roads that are clear enough for them to put on a bit of speed and start driving that GTi as they want to drive him.  That's when concerns about oversteer might apply.

It doesn't happen, guys.

In these conditions, nobody drives in a manner that's likely to cause any sort of snap oversteer.  Hell, you're lucky if you make 40mph on a clear, straight road.  And you slow right down going into bends.

But you do get there.  Which you definitely won't if you put the tyres with the traction on the wheels that are only there to keep the rear end of your car from dragging on the tarmac.

Rolfe.

We get it, you don't believe oversteer can ever happen, you continue to believe that, but stop telling others that it won't happen - its dumb, dangerous advice.

[Ess_Three]

(Ess_Three, how is it with you, I hear scary stuff on the radio this morning....)

For once I'm happy to report that the weather conditions in the Brae Oil Field, (UK Block 16/07a) 155 miles NE of Aberdeen, are probably significantly better than Aberdeen city.
The Control Room is pleasingly warm...but since I have no windows, I cannot comment on the weather first hand.
I am reliably informed by my shiftmates that it's damn cold, and snowing like hell though.
No flying yesterday or today due to adverse weather.

I'm quite happy to be out here...at least my meals are cooked for me, so I don't have to worry about getting to Tesco for the basics.

[Ess_Three]

We get it, you don't believe oversteer can ever happen, you continue to believe that, but stop telling others that it won't happen - its dumb, dangerous advice.

Once again I will reiterate:
I have never managed to get a VW (or for that matter VAG Group) car to lift-off oversteer in 17 years...road or track, wet, dry or snow, ESP or not...understeer every time.
Where are these oversteering VWs?

[Ben Lessani]

Are you being deliberately obtuse - or are you that naive?

VWs are no different to any other car on the planet, hell, I could make a unicycle oversteer if I wanted to.