Quick Oil Related Question - Wolverhampton VW = Poor

[am1w]

And if you want to be especially distrusting... Supply your own oil and insist on seeing the empty cans.
That said. You should never ever receive empty cans back.
Ag... Why dont you supply your own consumables too?
Mike

And the whole point was that they charged him for 5W30 504 00 which costs them and the customer more but may have poured 5W40 which is cheaper and not what is specified by VW anymore in this country for his particular car.
I am sure we should all be very pleased & assured to have an oil expert on the forum. 

[08micsta]

Am1w -

I have stayed off the point because I have noticed that you and a few other members keep rambling on about 5W30 and lets face it. This thread was started because VW used a 5W40 which made all of you go into a flat spin.

I am correcting you.

And how can a 5W40 not be suitable for in your country in this car? Usually when the operating viscosity of the oil is lower it is for countries with higher temps. You guys should be able to use either with no problem whatsoever.

And since when is SLX more expensive then 5W40? We import from Germany and every 5W40 we stock from Liqui Moly to Royal Purple etc is more expensive then their respective 5W30's be it from America or even Sweden. How odd that its cheaper.

Mike

[Egbutt Wash]

The oil on the invoice was a semi-synthetic.
Modern Vw's use a fully synthetic oil.
Micsta08 - leave the oils to your Dad, OK?  You are just showing yourself up, really.

[08micsta]

Semi synthetic / Hydrocracked - Very similar with the exception of hydrocracked usually has better spec.

It depends on dealers. Out of the 10 odd dealers I serviced none of them used Fully Synthetics. Same for BMW unless it was in an M car. Mercedes used the worst oils... Cheap stuff with old spec.

Nosh - Dont you have a bridge to go troll under?

[Steve30]

The oil on the invoice was a semi-synthetic.
Modern Vw's use a fully synthetic oil.
Micsta08 - leave the oils to your Dad, OK?  You are just showing yourself up, really.

For me its about getting the oil right in the first place, No one is getting on any high horse pal, what's happening in the UK is that a lot of dealers do take the pi** with Customers and charging megga price's for work thats not being done as it should be. Thats my point, if going to do the job then do it right!!

[VWjon]

Wow ive opened a can of worms with this one 

Simple facts guys.

Mate gave free MOT - Topped up with semi-sythetic oil onto of my existing fully sythetic 5W30 oil = Wrong and needed sorting.

Main VW dealer - Had car to recifiy above problem with oil / filter service, invoice of work showed 5W40 which is fully sythetic just not the 5W30 oil I asked for.

VW dealer IMO did a poor service in other respects, didnt get my moneys worth at all, convienced / reasured me enough the correct oil was put in, but should of had to in the first place. This amendment is also coming in the post in the form of an adjusted invoice, IMO covering me for any related problem, plus it suggested the oil test, so I am sure they put the correct oil in.

Wouldnt use Wolverhampton VW again, and feel free to copy this to the other forum.

Mike: You cannot mix fully sythetic oils? ie mixing 5w30 with 5w40? im new to all this oil lark and interested, surely they are viturally the same as the 30 / 40 numbers represent the viscosity at high running temp of 100 degrees?

Thanks to all for their comments, steve, a1mw, mike etc

[08micsta]

Hey there VWJon

Let me explain quickly.

Semi Synthetic / Hydrocracked oils are group 3 and 4 oils. These are know as PAO's and PAG's.

Now a semi synthetic is a mineral oil base with synthetic properties (Group 3). The same goes for a hydrocracked oil. The only difference is that a hydrocracked oil is superior to a semi synthetic because it is hydrotreated which means it far more refined making it a group 4 oil. Because both group 3 and group 4 oils are derived from a mineral base you can safely mix them assuming the technical data sheet of the oil says so even if its a different grade.

A Fully Synthetic oil (depending on brand) is not derived from a mineral base. Its base is a synthetic base and this makes it a group 5 oil. Essentially you could call it a "man made oil" because fully synthetics are designed to be specific. They are created from base up to perform much better then lesser group 3 and 4 oils. If oils were cars. The group 3 and 4 oils would be an Audi A4 and BMW 3 series. The group 5 would be a Bugatti Veyron.

Because fully synthetics have such tight parameters within them you cant mix them unless your mix the same brand and grade. In other words. You cannot mix a 5W30 with a 5W40 if you are running fully synthetic even if its the same brand. Only the same oil can be used in a top up. if you dont you end up with either mixed or boundary lubrication. Mixed meaning that the two oils actually cause each other to break down meaning that you get maybe only 60% to 40% of the possible 100% lubrication within the engine. Boundary meaning that there is a complete breakdown of the hydrodynamic film of oil within the engine. In other words. Your oil becomes useless or only partially effective at lubricating.

The 30 and 40.

You are correct. This refers to the viscosity of an oil at operating temperature. In simple terms. 40 is thicker then 30 etc. As mentioned previously. The GTI will happily run a 5W40 with no problems. The reason it is better and why the dealers use a 5W30 is because it is cheaper then most 5W40's. And for economical reasons.

There are over 360 moving parts in an engine surrounded by a film of oil. The thicker the oil. The more internal Resistance. More resistance means more friction which means higher temps which means your thermostat needs to work harder. It isnt a huge difference but going from a 5W40 to 5W30 your will notice the engine is revvier, provides better fuel economy and is a little louder. That said. These differences are fractional. Unless you are truly insync with the car you wont even notice a difference.

Hope this helps?

Mike

[VWjon]

Nice one mike that helps alot and im sure helps others understand here.

You know your stuff.

Just got to trust the dealers put 5w30 in if I ever have to top up the oil with my spare 5w30 1 litre bottle.

[am1w]

Hey there VWJon
Let me explain quickly.
 ...... Because fully synthetics have such tight parameters within them you cant mix them unless your mix the same brand and grade. In other words. You cannot mix a 5W30 with a 5W40 if you are running fully synthetic even if its the same brand. Only the same oil can be used in a top up. if you dont you end up with either mixed or boundary lubrication. Mixed meaning that the two oils actually cause each other to break down meaning that you get maybe only 60% to 40% of the possible 100% lubrication within the engine. Boundary meaning that there is a complete breakdown of the hydrodynamic film of oil within the engine. In other words. Your oil becomes useless or only partially effective at lubricating.
.

  ... and that is why he needs to be 100% sure whether they poured fully synthetic 5W40 or 5W30 into his engine!

But thank you, anyway, for the very informative and much appreciated lectures which eventually got the point! I am glad the forum provided you with an appropriate platform.

BTW, do you specialize in flat spins? You seem to know much about this!

[08micsta]

Hey there VWJon
Let me explain quickly.
 ...... Because fully synthetics have such tight parameters within them you cant mix them unless your mix the same brand and grade. In other words. You cannot mix a 5W30 with a 5W40 if you are running fully synthetic even if its the same brand. Only the same oil can be used in a top up. if you dont you end up with either mixed or boundary lubrication. Mixed meaning that the two oils actually cause each other to break down meaning that you get maybe only 60% to 40% of the possible 100% lubrication within the engine. Boundary meaning that there is a complete breakdown of the hydrodynamic film of oil within the engine. In other words. Your oil becomes useless or only partially effective at lubricating.
.

  ... and that is why he needs to be 100% sure whether they poured fully synthetic 5W40 or 5W30 into his engine!

But thank you, anyway, for the very informative and much appreciated lectures which eventually got the point! I am glad the forum provided you with an appropriate platform.

BTW, do you specialize in flat spins? You seem to know much about this!

Once again. As mentioned originally. My response to this thread is not whether they used the correct oil. My original rant was caused by members here of which you are one telling members that only a 505, 507 spec 5W30 can be used in your GTI. This is untrue. You can use anything from a 5W20 to a 10W60 depending on mods and vehicle usage.

I see no reason for your post above. It is unnecessary considering that the OP (VWjon) asked a specific question to which I provided an answer with regards to whether a 5W30 could be mixed with a 5W40 if the two oils are fully synthetic.

Not a flat spin. Just a member here who likes helping others and sharing the knowledge he has.


Mike