Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.

[Snoopy]

Anyone know if the latest generation of haldex still become 2wd under braking?

[R32UK]

Stig never had any trouble with the grip/traction of the haldex, if i remember right they said they were impressed how the R just keeps digging in. I know its easy to keep comparing top gear track times but its its a course and driver everybody knows and its common knowledge r32 is underpowered and overweight but it beat or got very close to alot of faster cars and this was due to the haldex of the r32.

P.s trail braking is good for Fwd but not much use for 4wd

Which was kind of what I was getting at... you have to adjust your driving accordingly to the type of car you are driving. Not that most people will be tracking their daily... but the R32 is more of a GT than a chuck-it-around corners kind of car.

[Ess_Three]

P.s trail braking is good for Fwd but not much use for 4wd

I beg to differ...it's no use on a fixed split 4WD system...and limited use on Torsen...but on Haldex where little torque is going to the rear if the front has grip, it's ideal, and works.

My S3 was set up to be driven hard, brake hard, turn in hard, trail braking...and it didn't understeer - as long as you drove it acordingly.

Sadly, Mk4/Mk5/Mk6 platforms don't allow enogh negative camber to be dialed in to really sort out the understeer without resorting to trail braking...in my experience.

[Ess_Three]

Which was kind of what I was getting at... you have to adjust your driving accordingly to the type of car you are driving. Not that most people will be tracking their daily... but the R32 is more of a GT than a chuck-it-around corners kind of car.

Two different points here...
Haldex in itself is good - not perfect - but good.
You have to learn to adapt to that, for sure, in order to get the best out of it...same in the Golf R no doubt.

R32 nose weight is something some people will always struggle with - no matter how you use it to drive the wheels.
I can't get on with them...I can't accept or drve round the understeer.
Doesn't matter whether it's a 2.8/2.9 12v or a 2.8/3.2 24v...they all do it.
It's weight and physics.


A lighter engine (2.0 TSI) with Haldex is a step forward in my book..the drive you can adapt to, with less understeer.
Win-win.

[R32UK]

Which was kind of what I was getting at... you have to adjust your driving accordingly to the type of car you are driving. Not that most people will be tracking their daily... but the R32 is more of a GT than a chuck-it-around corners kind of car.

Two different points here...
Haldex in itself is good - not perfect - but good.
You have to learn to adapt to that, for sure, in order to get the best out of it...same in the Golf R no doubt.

R32 nose weight is something some people will always struggle with - no matter how you use it to drive the wheels.
I can't get on with them...I can't accept or drve round the understeer.
Doesn't matter whether it's a 2.8/2.9 12v or a 2.8/3.2 24v...they all do it.
It's weight and physics.


A lighter engine (2.0 TSI) with Haldex is a step forward in my book..the drive you can adapt to, with less understeer.
Win-win.

no doubt about that ...but is it a worthwhile swap for a V6 rumble??? 

[carl1]

P.s trail braking is good for Fwd but not much use for 4wd

I beg to differ...it's no use on a fixed split 4WD system...and limited use on Torsen...but on Haldex where little torque is going to the rear if the front has grip, it's ideal, and works.

My S3 was set up to be driven hard, brake hard, turn in hard, trail braking...and it didn't understeer - as long as you drove it acordingly.

Sadly, Mk4/Mk5/Mk6 platforms don't allow enogh negative camber to be dialed in to really sort out the understeer without resorting to trail braking...in my experience.

im no expert but i see what you are sayin, but isnt one of the benifts of trail braking is to shift the weight to the front to allow the front tyres to grip better in the bend allowing faster cornering, this maybe were the extra weight of the v6 may be benifcial in which the r32 just grips and grips if you can master the entrance of the corner

[Ess_Three]

no doubt about that ...but is it a worthwhile swap for a V6 rumble??? 

Ahh...that's the question...
Noise...or handling?
Sod the noise...

V6 doesn't sound as good as a 16v on ITBs anyway...so it's not all that! 

[Ess_Three]

im no expert but i see what you are sayin, but isnt one of the benifts of trail braking is to shift the weight to the front to allow the front tyres to grip better in the bend allowing faster cornering, this maybe were the extra weight of the v6 may be benifcial in which the r32 just grips and grips if you can master the entrance of the corner

Not on a front engined car, no.

In a 911 or similar...then yes, you brake late and hard to bring the weight forward and add grip to aid turn in.

In a predominantly FWD, front engined car you hit the limit of what you can expect the front wheels to do quite quickly (braking, turning etc) so trail braking allows you to send the weight of the rear outwards - almost like trying to promote oversteer, but with no driven wheels.
You want the rear to stasrt to rotate, or come round on you, so you can grab a half turn of opposite lock (straightening the wheels) and get the power back on hard.

In my experience, more nose weight is never a good thing in a front engined car...it only ever leads to more understeer.

[VWKev]

R without a doubt if you can afford it.

[R32UK]

im no expert but i see what you are sayin, but isnt one of the benifts of trail braking is to shift the weight to the front to allow the front tyres to grip better in the bend allowing faster cornering, this maybe were the extra weight of the v6 may be benifcial in which the r32 just grips and grips if you can master the entrance of the corner

Not on a front engined car, no.

In a 911 or similar...then yes, you brake late and hard to bring the weight forward and add grip to aid turn in.

In a predominantly FWD, front engined car you hit the limit of what you can expect the front wheels to do quite quickly (braking, turning etc) so trail braking allows you to send the weight of the rear outwards - almost like trying to promote oversteer, but with no driven wheels.
You want the rear to stasrt to rotate, or come round on you, so you can grab a half turn of opposite lock (straightening the wheels) and get the power back on hard.

In my experience, more nose weight is never a good thing in a front engined car...it only ever leads to more understeer.

Which is why inever understood why you would want to trail brake in a AWD car. you better off getting back on the power to bring the back end round.

for what its woirth the the R32 is actually better balanced than the GTI