Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.

[keyser]

35k for a Golf is a heck of a lot of money.  We all have our own opinions but if I was spending that amount I would be looking at a 6 month - 1 year old Porsche Cayman S.  Faster and more prestige - if that floats your boat.

I wish people would stop compairing a new AWD hot hatch with room for 5 and low/medium running costs I.e. Golf R.    With......
A used RWD sports car with 2 seats and high running costs I.e cayman S.

Low/medium running costs?  32 mpg, 225/40/18 tyres, group 17 insurance.......  Take your point that about AWD versus RWD though.

[Booski]

Low/medium running costs?  32 mpg, 225/40/18 tyres, group 17 insurance.......  Take your point that about AWD versus RWD though.

yes definately low to medium when compaired to a porsche!
I personally will be getting a fixed price maintenance/tyre/service package which I guestimate
will cost for 36,000miles over 3 yrs :£60-80 per month.
This will cover all tyres ( due to wear and tear ) servicing and maintenance I.e. Brakes- discs and pads, clutch etc.......

My last car was an 07 rs4 avant with HIGH running costs!

[Ess_Three]

Yep, im far from an amazing driver but following a 4motion through a bend recently he managed to feck it up well and truly from just thinking it would hold and go, i knew to break early, ride it out and power early though. Its not hard is it?

It's not hard if you know the basics...and don't let the red mist of a trackday get the better of you.

[Ess_Three]

Im not sure where this common myth that the R32 understeers is from, but if you brake late then even a bus will understeer.

But, being honest, taking two otherwise similar cars - one with a V6 angled forward and carring more weight high up, the other a 4 cylinder, angled back and carrying less weight up around the head...simple physics tells you which is likely to understeer more.

Same driver, same driving style, the V6 will understeer more...it's as simple as that.
You can load the brakes later and harder on the 4 cylinder before understter sets in, compared to the V6...depending on driving style, that may or may not make you quicker.

[Ess_Three]

Low/medium running costs?  32 mpg, 225/40/18 tyres, group 17 insurance.......  Take your point that about AWD versus RWD though.

Valid point...
My modified S3 went through 3 sets of tyres (1 x 17" set & 2 x 18" sets), 3 sets of front brakes (standard, grooved discs + EBC pads, LCR Brembos), 3 suspension bushes and one track rod end in 3 years and 13,000 miles, whilst giving an average of 24 MPG being driven hard.

My 911 went through one pair of rear tyres (18") and a full set of brakes (discs and pads, F&R) in 3 years and 13,000 miles, whilst averaging 20 MPG - this included a trip round Europe and 18 laps of the 'ring.

Both 4WD...
You tell me which was the more expensive to 'run' fuel and consumable wise?

A Golf R, driven hard, will eat tyres, brakes and bushes...and will do about 25 MPG. The servicing and insurance will always be cheaper though...

[mac7]

My modified S3 went through 3 sets of tyres (1 x 17" set & 2 x 18" sets), 3 sets of front brakes (standard, grooved discs + EBC pads, LCR Brembos), 3 suspension bushes and one track rod end in 3 years and 13,000 miles

Now there's a driver who uses his car   I'm guessing though that most of us buying the Golf R won't be driving them at the same level of 'fun' and 'involvement' that leads to this rate of wear and tear 

[Ess_Three]

Now there's a driver who uses his car   I'm guessing though that most of us buying the Golf R won't be driving them at the same level of 'fun' and 'involvement' that leads to this rate of wear and tear 

I'm lucky in that I don't need to commute to work using the car...so the miles can be just for fun (and shopping!).
The miles I did in the S3 were road miles only...usually twisty, challengine back roads, but roads none the less....and I had proper fun doing them! 

Thing is, my old S3 was 275-280 BHP and 330+ lb-ft...and it chewed bushes and tyres.
A re-map on a Golf R is going to give more power and torque than that...in a heavier car.
Used hard, I'd expect the wear to be similar.

People shouldn't expect to buy a 1500 Kg car with 265 BHP and plenty of torque, and not pay the costs of using it properly.

[Tailpipe]

This thread has degenerated into a second-hand Porsche versus new Golf R thread, not that I'm complaining, because it is all very interesting stuff. I think most people wouldn't mind owning a Porsche, but even if you manage to score a good second-hand example, the running costs and insurance will always be higher than with a hot Golf, Focus or other hatch. For me, the other real issue is the fact that my car has to do double duty as a family runabout. I'd be scared to let the wife lose with a Porker!

While a front wheel drive cars will, of course, always be inferior to a rear mid-engined sports car like the Cayman when it comes to dynamic feedback, you can still derive an enormous amount of pleasure from lesser hot hatches. In many ways, the Lancia Delta Integrale and Golf Mk III VR-6 I owned in the 80s and 90s were much more fun than the BMW M3 I had in the 00s.

Definitely leaning towards the Golf R at this stage. Bit worried by the fact that Haldex can get confused. But surely it is up to driving fast on winter roads?

Anybody else weighing up an R versus a standard GTI?

Oh... one other thing! I keep hearing that VW may introduce an even madder version of the Golf Mk VI before it is replaced by Mk VII. Anybody interested in a 2.5 litre 5-cylinder TFSI?

[Jkctr]

NO chance of the 2.5 in the golf. Would be 40k+

Haldex is more than capable of handling that power


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mmyC1H6Ldo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrCYX0RowGk

[Ess_Three]

Definitely leaning towards the Golf R at this stage. Bit worried by the fact that Haldex can get confused. But surely it is up to driving fast on winter roads?

Yeah, Haldex can get confused if you are on the limit...but for everyday it's brilliant.
No 4WD system is perfect in that respect...they can all do some funny things at some point.

But if driving fast on country roads is what you want...I'd suggest no form of fancy 4WD stystem is going to stop you ending up in a ditch...as they can't provide grip where there is none - in winter.

And on summer rated, wide rubber...the R is likely to be a very good sledge if the S3 is anything to go by...sure you can spin all 4 wheels and find twice the limited traction of a FWD/RWD car...but you still have big wide tyres when you brake.

Anybody else weighing up an R versus a standard GTI?

Yeah, if the R is better than a GTI...which only time will tell.