Author Topic: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.  (Read 22611 times)

Offline R32UK

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #30 on: 10 December 2009, 12:35 »
How good is the Golf R32's AWD system, anyway? I guess it lacks the finesse of Audi's Torsen system, but Haldex has a good reputation. Can you drive reasonably quickly on winter roads with confidence if not controllability?

BTW, I'd hate to have a Porsche. For a start only two seats, so it is a non-starter, and the image is horrible. You certainly can't turn up to the office driving one. The running costs are horrendous. And the bog standard Cayman is not that much faster than the humble Golf in the performance department. 
Alot has been said about haldex... usually by people who have never owned a car which has haldex (you know who I am talking about torsen boys :tongue:) the truth is its a fantastic system, only it requires the driver to know how to use it to its maximum potential.

Never have I heard a pro driver have a bad word to say about it, and if its good enough for the Veyron, then its good enough for my golf :smiley:

Offline herbie911

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #31 on: 10 December 2009, 13:31 »
How good is the Golf R32's AWD system, anyway? I guess it lacks the finesse of Audi's Torsen system, but Haldex has a good reputation. Can you drive reasonably quickly on winter roads with confidence if not controllability?

BTW, I'd hate to have a Porsche. For a start only two seats, so it is a non-starter, and the image is horrible. You certainly can't turn up to the office driving one. The running costs are horrendous. And the bog standard Cayman is not that much faster than the humble Golf in the performance department. 
There is nothing wrong with the Porsche badge unless you are one of those people who listen to every word Jeremy Clarkson says. Strangely enough both Richard Hammond and James May are Porsche owners.
Two of my colleagues a neuro surgeon and a cardiologists drove a Cayman S. My best friend (a Cathay Pacific pilot) drives a Gen 2 911GT3. My Gf a solicitor drove a boxster. Professionals drives Porsche---discreet and don't like to shout what they own! Same reason why I bought a Golf GTI instead of a EVO!

Who drives Aston and R8. Footballers, singers etc..

The base Cayman might be slower than a Golf R or a chipped GTI. Definition of a fun car does not always equal to explosive straightline speed. There is steering feel, brake feel, gearchange and how a car behave on the lmit. Do you prefer understeer or oversteer or even a four wheel drift! Do you like a challenging drive etc..

Running cost. I bought my Gen 2 c2s in July 2008 (trading up from a 2006 cayman S) and is not due for service til July 2010 estimated cost £480. If you can resists flooring the car, it can still do 28-30mpg! Not bad for a 188mph car!

I must admit the R8 is awesome but can't leave it in any car park other than Hilton's!
 
« Last Edit: 10 December 2009, 13:36 by herbie911 »

Offline SilverChariot

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #32 on: 10 December 2009, 13:35 »
Alot has been said about haldex... usually by people who have never owned a car which has haldex (you know who I am talking about torsen boys :tongue:) the truth is its a fantastic system, only it requires the driver to know how to use it to its maximum potential.

Never have I heard a pro driver have a bad word to say about it, and if its good enough for the Veyron, then its good enough for my golf :smiley:

+1

As a system for maximizing grip on-road (not off-road), Haldex is absolutely fine. Having owned a Mk5 R32, I can attest to the planted feel it gives the car. Granted, there's no lairy power oversteer malarky. But, that's not the point.

The main advantage I found was the grip it gave from take-off in slippery conditions. For example, pulling off a junction in the R32 in slippery conditions. Just plant the throttle and it sorts itself out - no fuss.
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN!
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Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #33 on: 10 December 2009, 15:50 »
Alot has been said about haldex... usually by people who have never owned a car which has haldex (you know who I am talking about torsen boys :tongue:) the truth is its a fantastic system, only it requires the driver to know how to use it to its maximum potential.

Never have I heard a pro driver have a bad word to say about it, and if its good enough for the Veyron, then its good enough for my golf :smile,

Haldex is fine...but when you push it hard, it can get confused, it'll never be as predictable as Torsen...so always has the ability to do something stupid - I almost wiped my S3 out twice when it decided to switch torque quickly as I was mid-correction.
It's good for everyday stuff...but not great at 9/10th and above...and that, you can't drive round - it's down to the (relatively) poor chassis and Haldex programming.

In everyday use though, it's great...you don't notice it working, you can use more of the torque, sooner and more often, without worrying.

Sadly, fun...it isn't.
Efficient...but ultimately too efficient to the point of being boring.


Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #34 on: 10 December 2009, 15:59 »
There is nothing wrong with the Porsche badge unless you are one of those people who listen to every word Jeremy Clarkson says. Strangely enough both Richard Hammond and James May are Porsche owners.
Two of my colleagues a neuro surgeon and a cardiologists drove a Cayman S. My best friend (a Cathay Pacific pilot) drives a Gen 2 911GT3. My Gf a solicitor drove a boxster. Professionals drives Porsche---discreet and don't like to shout what they own! Same reason why I bought a Golf GTI instead of a EVO!

Who drives Aston and R8. Footballers, singers etc..

The base Cayman might be slower than a Golf R or a chipped GTI. Definition of a fun car does not always equal to explosive straightline speed. There is steering feel, brake feel, gearchange and how a car behave on the lmit. Do you prefer understeer or oversteer or even a four wheel drift! Do you like a challenging drive etc..


Sadly,  many people like to benchmark a Porsche as some sort of straight line performance icon…when, if people are honest, you don’t buy a Porsche for straight line stuff – you can buy an Evo for 1/3 of the price which is as quick. You buy one for the involvement and fun. But that’s lost on many people – usually those who have never driven / owned a Porsche!
You don’t get the same involvement or fun from a VAG hatchback – no matter how much power it has. Sure, you can get a Golf that’s faster – I’ve been whipped up the ¼ mile by Mk4 GTIs and TTs…but show them a challenging road with corners and the game changes…
If you do get the same involvement, then a Porsche isn’t for you…as quite simply, you aren’t up to doing it justice.

The Golf may well be almost as quick in normal use, and a damn site more practical, cheaper to run and maintain etc…but when you are in the mood it will always fail to impress – whereas a Cayman/911 – and even a Boxster – will come alive when you are pushing it hard.
Completely different cars, for completely different buyers.
No right or wrong.

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline R32UK

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #35 on: 10 December 2009, 17:43 »
Alot has been said about haldex... usually by people who have never owned a car which has haldex (you know who I am talking about torsen boys :tongue:) the truth is its a fantastic system, only it requires the driver to know how to use it to its maximum potential.

Never have I heard a pro driver have a bad word to say about it, and if its good enough for the Veyron, then its good enough for my golf :smile,

Haldex is fine...but when you push it hard, it can get confused, it'll never be as predictable as Torsen...so always has the ability to do something stupid - I almost wiped my S3 out twice when it decided to switch torque quickly as I was mid-correction.
It's good for everyday stuff...but not great at 9/10th and above...and that, you can't drive round - it's down to the (relatively) poor chassis and Haldex programming.

In everyday use though, it's great...you don't notice it working, you can use more of the torque, sooner and more often, without worrying.

Sadly, fun...it isn't.
Efficient...but ultimately too efficient to the point of being boring.



Good old predictable torsen eh.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT6XGQrZc90  :grin: :grin: :grin:

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #36 on: 10 December 2009, 19:36 »
No amount of 4WD trickery will be able to get a supertanker to corner at break-neck speed when a total clot is at the helm...you could see a big 'off' looking for a suitable location to unfold as the fool left his braking too late.

To be fair, it wouldn't have happened like that in a Haldex car...it would have understeered off before the apex!

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline R32UK

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #37 on: 10 December 2009, 19:49 »

To be fair, it wouldn't have happened like that in a Haldex car...it would have understeered off before the apex!

Yes that's exactly what happens if you dont know how to drive one.

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #38 on: 10 December 2009, 19:53 »

To be fair, it wouldn't have happened like that in a Haldex car...it would have understeered off before the apex!

Yes that's exactly what happens if you dont know how to drive one.

Yep, im far from an amazing driver but following a 4motion through a bend recently he managed to feck it up well and truly from just thinking it would hold and go, i knew to break early, ride it out and power early though. Its not hard is it?

Offline R32UK

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Re: Can't make up my mind: R or GTI? Please help.
« Reply #39 on: 10 December 2009, 20:27 »

To be fair, it wouldn't have happened like that in a Haldex car...it would have understeered off before the apex!

Yes that's exactly what happens if you dont know how to drive one.

Yep, im far from an amazing driver but following a 4motion through a bend recently he managed to feck it up well and truly from just thinking it would hold and go, i knew to break early, ride it out and power early though. Its not hard is it?

Exactly  :wink:

Im not sure where this common myth that the R32 understeers is from, but if you brake late then even a bus will understeer.