Author Topic: JonL's 8v budget track toy - now going to be a race car! ;-)  (Read 55012 times)

Offline JonLeeper

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
Yes I agree on the order to do things.  The first will be the cage and then seats and harnesses but I will have about 18 months without familly to worry about in the evenings and access to a reasonable workshop, so am trying to think about further work.  I may well just be dreaming, but there's no harm there is there?

So in my imaginary world which would work best? Data I have so far:

VW Stable

ABF
1984cc
4 cylinders
16 Valves
148bhp

AAA/ABU
2792/2861cc
6 cylinders
12 valves
172/188bhp

BAM
1781cc
4 cylinders
20 valves
221bhp
149kg (dry)

Fiat
1995cc
4 cylinders
16 valves
190bhp

1998
5 cylinders
20 valves
220bhp

Alfa
2959/3179
6 cylinders
24 valves
208-227/237-247bhp

I need to try and find dimensions and weights for all these.

Offline Diamond Hell

  • Serious forum addict
  • *
  • Posts: 7,997
  • Opinions я Us
I agree with Wayne on the width of the Coupe Fiat.  I think you'll find it has a clamshell bonnet and when you lift that there is a LOT of engine and gearbox under there!

The advantage of the ABF (aside from the fact it just bolts up) is that it's light and helps maintain the balance and handling of the Golf.

That 148bhp would be VERY pessimistic on the output for a healthy ABF motor, with a good 4-branch on the back.  Add at least another 10bhp on OEM management.

The VR6 on Golf3 mounts is canted forwards, so not only is it significantly heavier, it's also further forward in the shell.

The whole Alfa thing is just dirty and you should take yourself to one side and give yourself a good talking to.
Just because you're offended doesn't make you right.

Holiday cottages on the Isle of Wight for 2-10 people? PM me.

Offline Wayne

  • Sir Postalot
  • *
  • Posts: 32,051
I agree with Wayne on the width of the Coupe Fiat.  I think you'll find it has a clamshell bonnet and when you lift that there is a LOT of engine and gearbox under there!

Good point with the bonnet, I forgot they had a clamshell type, it is a big old engine.


Offline JonLeeper

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
OK, I give in I'll stop looking about at other things and concentrate on finding all the bits and bobs needed to convert to an ABF.

I was only looking, and the Fiat 4 cylinder is much more powerful, 190bhp out of the box, and the gearbox has a LSD as standard, and it would be different, and, and ,and
  :laugh:

As an aside does anyone know the weights or sizes?
« Last Edit: 12 October 2011, 05:06 by JonLeeper »

Offline JonLeeper

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
Re: JonL's 8v budget track toy - change of direction?
« Reply #194 on: 05 November 2011, 14:11 »
So just got back from Bastion and am kicking my heels in Gutersloh for a few days when i was awoken this morning by the sound of tyres being pushed to the absolute limits.  :laugh:  I had to get up and go see what's occurring, didn't I, well any self-respecting petrol-head would.  What I found is better than great.  Gutersloh has its own race car club and they run a cheap as chips race series on the airfield!   Link here www.rallyx.de

They were holding their last event of the season and will start again in the new year.  It seems like a  very friendly club and there are a couple of mk2’s racing as well as a very quick mk3 today.  Budgets are minimal, no race licence required and looks like a lot of fun.  There is a German member who’s business makes stuff out of CDS tube so he makes roll-cages for club members for 180 euros fitted, you just prep the car and take it to him and he gives it back a few days later with a cage fitted.  Not they are not FIA but I’ve had a look at some and the welding looks good and there is plenty of triangulation and bracing so I’m happy.  I just need to think about engine choices as the rules state that the engine must have been fitted to the car by the manufacturer, so there is a G60 Mk2 running but I was looking at the classes and that would be in Class D which is 120 BHP plus and so I might be better aiming at 119BHP to remain in Class C, but at the top end.  Now I’m not sure what my 8v is putting out but I think I should be able to get a reliable 119 out of it, shouldn’t I?  If so where do I start?

Looking forward to this now, should be a lot of fun next year.

VW BUSH

  • Guest
Re: JonL's 8v budget track toy - change of direction?
« Reply #195 on: 05 November 2011, 14:26 »
A 2.0l 8v engine is 115 as std and bolts up direct(should run with digi correct me if im wrong :smiley:), could do a 2.0 bottom end swap as well and keep stock digi/kjet
both would see you scrape in under 120bhp without a CAT.
2.0/BE swap with Mk2 16v gearbox would see you a fairly nifty Mk2 8v, any more mods than a panel filter might put you over the 120 and into the realms of needing more valves :smiley:

Offline JonLeeper

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
Re: JonL's 8v budget track toy - change of direction?
« Reply #196 on: 09 November 2011, 09:07 »
So decisions, decisions, decisions!  The way forward is this, well I think that it is today but I reserve the right to change my mind by lunchtime, or tomorrow whatever suit me better!  :rolleyes: I have decided to develop my Mk2 bit by bit, cheaper and actually more likely to happen, rather than plan for a complete overhaul and radical change.  I will try and source a cheap second / spare 8v engine and will work slow time on getting that built and ready to fit.  I was thinking that lightened and balanced internals combined with a port matched manifold and free flowing air filter, with ducted external cold air feed, will provide sensible and reliable power nicely towards the top of the Class C 90-120 BHP range.  :nerd:

The car is already stripped out and lightened, as much as I can / want to do so there is little benefit from trying to remove the last few ounces.  I am undecided about the whole seam welding thing, both in my ability to weld and the benefits it would bring, but have decided that one of the first  jobs will be to remove the sunroof and when I do this I will seam weld everything up in the roof / a & B pillar area.  This should provide a little more strength here and cannot hurt.  I am going to try and strip back the sunroof panel so that I can weld it back in place and create a single skinned roof once again.  This will achieve two things, it will remove some weight (and from the top of the car always a benefit) and it will clear the area for the roll cage to be fitted.  The roll cage will be made early next year in Germany and I will base it on the one here: http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/322822/2220902.aspx#2220902 a great thread with lots of pictures on how to do it correctly.  I cannot guarantee that the CDS will be FIA compliant but at least the design and fitting should make me safe, and that is the main effort.  I am also going to get off my, rather smaller backside (post Afghan heat and lots of phys), and get the poly-bushes fitted to my wide-track arms and then finish the conversion.  I also have the anti-roll bar from the Passat so I will look and see which is thicker and fit that.  I am not sure if my brakes will be sufficient but unless the consensus here is to change them I will continue with the 16v items I have.  I need to fit the polycarb windows that I have sitting in the garage as they are a requirement of the race series.  I will also need to fit a cut-out switch and was thinking that now would be a good time to relocate the battery as well.  What I was thinking was moving the battery to the boot on the passenger side and then run the power cable forward to the front wing, external cut-off switch for marshals, and then into the dash for the main cut-out switch in the cabin.  I also need to fit a fire extinguisher, but the rules allow for a portable one to be secured in the cabin.  A mate did mention, a few months ago, that he had an old plumbed in system that I could have so I might get that fitted but if not then it will be a hand held one in with me.

Other than that I will just try and get it ready for the first race and see what breaks or how far off the pace I am!  Comments suggestions always gratefully received and if anyone wants to help then I’ll be in Kent up until Xmas!  :wink:

Jon

Offline Horney

  • 10k hero
  • *
  • Posts: 10,782
  • Racing, Trackdays, Starwars.
Re: JonL's 8v budget track toy - now going to be a race car! ;-)
« Reply #197 on: 09 November 2011, 09:15 »
Sounds exciting!

Nick

Offline JonLeeper

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
Re: JonL's 8v budget track toy - now going to be a race car! ;-)
« Reply #198 on: 09 November 2011, 10:36 »
Sounds exciting!

Nick

No it sounds bloody terrifying, but also great fun!  I have a helmit and nomex (one fo the perks of disposing of things that go BANG) so will be asking for gloves, shoes and a race suit for Xmas.  Roll on next year and competition.  I hope!

Offline Diamond Hell

  • Serious forum addict
  • *
  • Posts: 7,997
  • Opinions я Us
Re: JonL's 8v budget track toy - now going to be a race car! ;-)
« Reply #199 on: 10 November 2011, 23:49 »
For heavens sake, just go to the MSA Blue Book and check through the specs on cages.  If you're using CDS whatever's being built really *should* be compliant.
Just because you're offended doesn't make you right.

Holiday cottages on the Isle of Wight for 2-10 people? PM me.