big brakes

[Teutonic_Tamer]

OK, it is time for some serious big brakes on the GTI.  Front and rears.  And fairly urgently too!  :embarassed:

FRONTS:
For the fronts, I've pondered for a while over the usual 'fayre' available, and was originally gonna go for the R32/S3 setup - but have really gone off them - for the simple fact that they are heavy b'stards'.

I've ruled out the Taroxes (sorry Hurdy, but they just don't do it for me).  I've also rulled out the AP racing ones (due to an issue over durability).  And I also rulled out the VWR ones (for being very 'grabby' and not easily controllable - need to think about SWMBO, too).

So that leaves me with either Brembo GT with two-piece discs, or Alcon with two-piece discs.  I'm strongly swaying towards the Alcon - good British engineering (so good, Audi now use them on the mighty RS6 with the ceramic discs rather than their usual Brembo).  But a crucual 'sticking point' is that they must be able to fit under the standard 18" Monzas.  OK, if they need a little spacer to clear, then that is fine - but no more than that.

So are there any updates from current Alcon users?  And were is the best place to get them from?  And what about getting brake pads for them - are they a 'standard' profile which any decent aftermarket performance shop should get, or will I have to go back to Alcon or their supplier?

Or does anyone have any experience with the Brembo GT setup - becasue their six-pot monobloc caliper is increadibly light, and that would really work well, in terms of reducing un-sprung masses.  But what is their durability like?  'Cause Brembo, just like anything from Italy, can suffer quite bad with corrosion - my Brembo six-pots on my RS4 were starting to get in quite a bad way!    Not a big issue, it just means I'll have to keep on top of them, by stripping them down more often.

REARS:
The rears must also get some 'attention'.  I think the best option here would be to stick with OEM R32/S3 rears, with the 310x22 vented discs, and larger diameter piston in the caliper.  But again, another sticking point - if I go for the Alcons, then they are just silver painted.  I don't really want different colours front to rear, and I REALLY don't like the ghey powder-pink red paint that is on there at the mo.

Sooooo, does anyone know if any other PQ35 platform car had 310x22 at the rears, but with just a plain anodised silver caliper, rather than the blue R32 or black S3 affairs, and preferably with the 41mm dia piston, rather than the GTIs standard 38mm dia.

Orrrrrrrrr - are there any alternatives for the rear which I should check out.


Many thanks chaps, and chapesses - form an orderly queue to help out the TT for once!   

[MummRa]

I would be shocked if any commonly available Alcon callipers used an exotic pad shape. Most should be available in the usual compounds and hence from a whole host of suppliers

Fancy getting the paint out for the OEM rear callipers?

Out of interest (and sorry if this was covered somewhere i missed in my search) what are the durability issues with the AP kits?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I would be shocked if any commonly available Alcon callipers used an exotic pad shape. Most should be available in the usual compounds and hence from a whole host of suppliers

OK, thanks for that.  Aftermarket modding aint really my scene, which is why I generally prefer to keep things OEM - but Alcons and Brembos are way better than anything out of the VW parts bin - hence my 'n00b' comment!  :embarassed:

Fancy getting the paint out for the OEM rear callipers?

What, painting them red again . . .  :embarassed:

Out of interest (and sorry if this was covered somewhere i missed in my search) what are the durability issues with the AP kits?

AP calipers are known to crack around the bleed nipple.  Not an issue for big race teams who just fit a fresh caliper on a couple of times a season - but for a private owner . . . 

[Hurdy]

Surprised the TAROX's don't do it for you Sean especially at the prices I've been able to help a few peep out with them

TAROX can also do the rear discs, but unsure if they do 310mm.

Looks like your slippery slope is getting longer

[MummRa]

I am not one for modding, yet, though I keep hearing about this slope 

Did spend some time working at a company that specialised in hi-performance brakes though, but will admit a bias towards AP Racing hence my interest in your comment

In my time there the only cracks around the bleed nipples i saw where when they had been over tightened or just seized over time and been bodged off. Ironically it was normally race teams that broke/over tightened them, but then they do need to use them a whole lot more that you would expect/hope to on a road car.

Shows what little you get to find out when you just sell stuff though I guess

Worth thinking about the pads though, as there is a wide range of options out there over and above what comes with the kit (Ferodo DS2500 with the AP that one i know, is it pagid with Alcon? no idea for Brembo)

For the rear, I guess the best thing is to hope for is an OEM disc replacements that matches your front kit (groove / drill pattern), what ever you choose to go for, and swap the pads with something that complements the . Though you will have a little less choice for the rears and that doesnt fix the pink issue

Sorry I dont know more about the specific  kits you are looking at

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Thanks for the replies.

One other option which I forgot to mention was the MovIt stuff from Germany - they do ceramics as an upgrade - and I'd be like a dog with two dicks.  Anyone know of decent MovIt suppliers in the UK?

[Hurdy]

Ceramic brakes on a GTI

I did see and hold some at Autosport international at the NEC this year. They looked superb and would definitely shed more weight off the unsprung mass. Unfortunately I'm having a "senior" moment and can't remember the name of the supplier :embarassed:

They were smaller than stock, but with more stopping power.

Don't ceramic brakes tend to have a more ON/OFF feeling over stock steel brakes?

You could always swap over the RS4 brakes

[jaydubveedub]

Upgrading the front brakes is probably my next mod, as I find the OEM brakes on the GTI quite prone to fade.

I know you said you didn't want the AP Racing setup but thought I would add that the bloke who lives opposite my in-laws works for AP racing and used to run the AP 4 pot system on his MK5 Golf. For what it's worth, he told me not to bother with the 6 pot setup as the incremental performance versus the 4 pot setup is not noticeable unless you do LOTS of track work. The AP setup should fit under the standard GTI wheels so long as you have the 18"'s. You can download the technical drawings from the AP site and print them out real-size on a plotter to check them against the car. Also the AP's are available in red, should you want to keep the car looking relatively stock. I wasn't aware of the cracking issue on these though............

As an aside, don't Brembo own AP Racing now?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Ceramic brakes on a GTI

Now that would definately win the 'willy waving contest'! 

I did see and hold some at Autosport international at the NEC this year. They looked superb and would definitely shed more weight off the unsprung mass. Unfortunately I'm having a "senior" moment and can't remember the name of the supplier :embarassed:

They were smaller than stock, but with more stopping power.

Maybe they were the MovIt ones - www.MovIt.de - because as far as I know, there is only one other company in Germany who actually manufacture carbon/ceramic discs - www.SGLcarbon.com - who make the oem ones for Porsche, Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, etc.  And as for brake pads, only Pagid, another German company, are the only ones (that I am aware of) who make ceramic composite pads (for either carbon/ceramic discs, or conventional iron discs) - so it would make sense for another German company to complete the 'set'. 

Don't ceramic brakes tend to have a more ON/OFF feeling over stock steel brakes?

Nope, that is just pure carbon discs - which are only used on race cars.  For road car use, the carbon particles are mixed with silica (I think) - and this makes them not only increadibly hard wearing, but also extremely progressive too.  And they don't need any warming up either.  From stone cold, to repeated high speed a-bahn blasts - they are increadibly consistent.  And that can be a little un-nerving, especially if you are 'anticipating' brake fade after giving them some serious punishment.

You could always swap over the RS4 brakes

Lol - yes, I have thought - but the Mrs wants to keep her Monzas! 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

As an aside, don't Brembo own AP Racing now?

Yup, but the two companies work completely separately - with AP being primarily responsible for motorsport specific products, whereas Brembo still specialise in all flavours of road cars, along with a truely dedicated 'aftermarket' upgrade programme, the latter of which is not officially in APs remit.