How often do you wax your knob?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

But in terms of 'on the limit' handling, the GTI is a much easier car - whereas the RS4 is much, much harder.

The ESP in the RS4 is amazing though.

Yup, and it is massively better than the ESP system used on the Golf. 

We did a scenario to test the ESP where they got us to floor it to 70/80 in 2nd gear and then do a quick swerve around some cones and then come back on line, EVERYONE sent the back end flying when they correct the wheel to get back on line, turned the ESP on and I was amazed how "easy" it was compared to having it turned off.

But with practice, you can actually control the rear end very effectively with the ESP fully off.  And 99% of the time, I always turn off the ESP, both in the GTI and the RS4.

Whilst ESP is genuinely a superb piece of technology, it seems to be actually 'dumbing down' true driver skills of car control.  Just like airbags, which then make the driver think they can drive at 80mph on the motorway 3foot from your ar$e!  Ditch the drivers airbag, put a six inch spike in the steering wheel - and watch driver 'behaviour' improve. 

And don't forget the noise!     

The "S" button needs to be pressed ALL the time

Yup. 

I know this is going off topic but I think we have had enough talk of waxing our knobs

Waz up, ran out of tissues? 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

TT owns one so they cant be far wrong

Exactly, and I ain't no balding old man.    OK, I do have grey hair, but was grey at 21 . . . 

[AlanD]

But with practice, you can actually control the rear end very effectively with the ESP fully off.  And 99% of the time, I always turn off the ESP, both in the GTI and the RS4.

Whilst I sort of agree with you, having experienced first hand how a car reacts I wouldn't like to be in that situation we was put in (having to suddenly swerved and then swerve back at reasonably high speeds) in real life with the ESP off.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

But with practice, you can actually control the rear end very effectively with the ESP fully off.  And 99% of the time, I always turn off the ESP, both in the GTI and the RS4.

Whilst I sort of agree with you, having experienced first hand how a car reacts I wouldn't like to be in that situation we was put in (having to suddenly swerved and then swerve back at reasonably high speeds) in real life with the ESP off.

Oh, I agree.  But if/when you do turn off the ESP, you must be able to give 100% to the task of 'driving'.  No screaming kids, nagging SWMBOs, fiddling with the iPod, posing in your cool shades - or what ever.  Beacuause if you DO find you need to swerve at all, then you havn't been paying full attention to the roads around you. 

Get some advanced driver training, and you'll be seriously amazed at just what the 'average' driver missed due to simple lack of observation. 

[AlanD]

You say that, have you seen the Volve advert !? What if theres an elephant that suddenly blows water all over your windscreen !

Dont tell me you saw that coming

[R32UK]

Just going back to the M3/RS4 issue.. A good friend of mine owned an rs4 from new and it had to go back to the dealers 12x in 8months of ownership. He decided enough was enough and made the jump to the M3.

In his opinion the RS4 was more usable as daily but very poor build quality and little niggling issues made it a pain to own. The M3 on the other hand he says has been untouchable for quality and hasnt had a single thing go wrong in 2yrs ownership. Also doesnt hide the fact that in the dry the M3 would murder the RS4. So just to make sure it does so in the wet too... hes modded his to around 500bhp  . How that helps him off the line is a mystery, but in gear it goes like sh1t off a shovel.

[AlanD]

Has he stuck a SC on it to get that or just done loads of little things?

[R32UK]

Has he stuck a SC on it to get that or just done loads of little things?

Aint got a scooby. Didnt get a chance to have a blast... but it did look mighty mean sat in his garage (minus the scratchs on his roof from next doors car :embarassed:)

Quite sure hes had a few bits upgraded and a remap... sure he knows what hes doing

[AlanD]

Reason I ask is its hard to get big rains from just a remap on an N/A engine.

With regards to the scratch caused in his CARBON FIBRE !! roof by his neighbour, there would be murders in my street if that happened to me lol

[R32UK]

Reason I ask is its hard to get big rains from just a remap on an N/A engine.

With regards to the scratch caused in his CARBON FIBRE !! roof by his neighbour, there would be murders in my street if that happened to me lol

I seen his eyes grow in size and steam start to come out of his ears when I asked him about it Did tell him if he pi$$ed on it, it would keep the cat off. Think hes just put it down to weight reduction in the end, poor guy