Author Topic: Manual or DSG?  (Read 128718 times)

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #200 on: 04 September 2009, 11:34 »
It's not great engineering

I hope that was a typo!  Because any who thinks the DSG is NOT great engineering needs their head looking at!

two paddles and a centre lever really are more than adequate for manual control of the system. To include a fourth by keeping kickdown activated in manual mode is too much. They should keep it simple. After all a manual gearbox works just fine with two controls - clutch and gear lever.

But the DSG is NOT classed as a 'manual'.  For the purposes of driving licence requirements, the DSG is simply classed as an 'automatic transmission'.  It doesn't matter a jot on weather the innards are 'manual' based, epicyclic based, chain-drive based - or what ever.  And because it is classed as an 'auto', then it must have a 'kickdown' function.

Trying to 'compare' the DSG manual mode with a genuine manual gearbox is grossly misleading.  It would be like trying to compare David Cameron with John Prescott - both are politicians (just like a DSG and a manual are both 'transmissions') - but one is handsome, amenable, slim, polite, well-educated and takes care of his appearance.  The other is a fat, ugly, obnoxious, agressive, rude, slob!


Plus I'm a lover of the satisfaction of driving a car well. Automated systems like ABS, ESP, DSG, ETC(!) might be safer, or quicker, or supposedly 'more efficient' than me, but I enjoy providing the input myself. Let a machine to do the work and you take away from the man.

I generally agree wholeheartedly with that.  However, not everyone is 100% fit and healthy - which is why stuff like power steering, servo assisted brakes, and auto transmissions are available.  And others don't have the necessary 'mechanical sympathy' to properly 'control' all the functions on a car.


Having said all that, I've still not decided whether to have DSG or not! Perhaps a longer test drive is needed...

Definately.  Ask for a full day unacompanied test drive.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #201 on: 04 September 2009, 11:37 »
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/08/vw-and-audi-models-recalled-over-two.html  :rolleyes: :lipsrsealed:

That isn't displaying for me, but they are Yanks - the peeps who sue when they kill their pet dogs in their microwaves - because the instruction book fails to specifially state that you shouldn't put a live pooch in a microwave!  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline mac7

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #202 on: 04 September 2009, 14:34 »
It's not great engineering

I hope that was a typo!  Because any who thinks the DSG is NOT great engineering needs their head looking at!

I agree - it's by far the best bit of automotive engineering I've seen for a long time. It's the kickdown switch remaining active that I'm not sure about.

Having said all that, I've still not decided whether to have DSG or not! Perhaps a longer test drive is needed...

Definately.  Ask for a full day unacompanied test drive.

I've arranged to borrow a Mk5 DSG for a week and have a proper play. Is this earlier version going to behave in the same way as the Mk6 with DSG?
Golf R

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #203 on: 04 September 2009, 16:44 »

But the DSG is NOT classed as a 'manual'.  For the purposes of driving licence requirements, the DSG is simply classed as an 'automatic transmission'.  It doesn't matter a jot on weather the innards are 'manual' based, epicyclic based, chain-drive based - or what ever.  And because it is classed as an 'auto', then it must have a 'kickdown' function.

Whilst I agree with all your points...but VW dealers making a big play of the manual mode being just like a manual is missleading.
Personally, I still believe that it's damn good as an auto, if an auto is what you want...but maintain that having a manual mode should remove kickdown. Manaul should mean manual...anything else isn't manual.

DSG in manual does not behave like an automated manual. If people accept that, then fine...but to pretend it does is plain daft.

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Offline Rolfe

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #204 on: 04 September 2009, 21:11 »
Well, since "manual" actually means "by hand", strictly speaking, and the DSG seems to have an extra function that's controlled by the foot, then technically you're right....   :rolleyes:

Rolfe.

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #205 on: 05 September 2009, 00:21 »
It's not great engineering

I hope that was a typo!  Because any who thinks the DSG is NOT great engineering needs their head looking at!

I agree - it's by far the best bit of automotive engineering I've seen for a long time. It's the kickdown switch remaining active that I'm not sure about.

But it is very easy to 'feel' the kickdown switch.  Even when I have my rigger boots on, I can still (just  :embarassed:) feel it - so with 'normal' shoes, it shouldn't be a problem.


Having said all that, I've still not decided whether to have DSG or not! Perhaps a longer test drive is needed...

Definately.  Ask for a full day unacompanied test drive.

I've arranged to borrow a Mk5 DSG for a week and have a proper play. Is this earlier version going to behave in the same way as the Mk6 with DSG?

The boxes are exactly the same.  There are obviously improvements and tweaks in the software, such as Launch Control - but 'mechanically-wise', they are identical.  And don't forget, they were also used in the Seat Cupra Challenge race series for two (or was it three :undecided:) seasons - without a single DSG failure.  :wink:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #206 on: 05 September 2009, 00:24 »

But the DSG is NOT classed as a 'manual'.  For the purposes of driving licence requirements, the DSG is simply classed as an 'automatic transmission'.  It doesn't matter a jot on weather the innards are 'manual' based, epicyclic based, chain-drive based - or what ever.  And because it is classed as an 'auto', then it must have a 'kickdown' function.

Whilst I agree with all your points...but VW dealers making a big play of the manual mode being just like a manual is missleading.
Personally, I still believe that it's damn good as an auto, if an auto is what you want...but maintain that having a manual mode should remove kickdown. Manaul should mean manual...anything else isn't manual.

DSG in manual does not behave like an automated manual. If people accept that, then fine...but to pretend it does is plain daft.

I agree with all your comments, except the kickdown issue.

But if stealers are actually trying to state it behaves the same as a proper manual, then they want want suspending from the ceiling, by their gonads, with cheese wire!  :angry:  Stealers who misrepresent things really make me very angry - and I will then go out of my way to show them up!
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #207 on: 05 September 2009, 00:26 »
Well, since "manual" actually means "by hand", strictly speaking,

I wonder what would happen if I asked my Mrs to give me a 'manual job'?  :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline mac7

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #208 on: 05 September 2009, 01:19 »
I wonder what would happen if I asked my Mrs to give me a 'manual job'?  :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
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Offline R32UK

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Re: Manual or DSG?
« Reply #209 on: 05 September 2009, 15:10 »
Well, since "manual" actually means "by hand", strictly speaking,

I wonder what would happen if I asked my Mrs to give me a 'manual job'?  :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I imagine it would be alot better than an "auto job"  :tongue: :grin: :grin: