Author Topic: How wide can I go..?  (Read 9000 times)

Offline ReDBull

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #20 on: 24 June 2009, 14:25 »
For fast road and occasional track use what is the best size wheel and tyre to use?
03 210 Seat LCR. Badger5 V2.2TIP, Fordge 007p, Wellycooler, Quaife ATB LSD, Nuespeed ARB's, KW Clubsports, 330mm discs, 3" turbo back de cat and still on the standard map!
My project thread: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=241116.0

Offline Diamond Hell

  • Serious forum addict
  • *
  • Posts: 7,992
  • Opinions я Us
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #21 on: 24 June 2009, 15:46 »
195/50 R15, on either 6.5 or 7" wide rim.

Cheaper than many other sizes and very wide choice and good stock availability.

It also handles well on them.

Why else would VW have specced them on the high performance Golfs at the time?
Just because you're offended doesn't make you right.

Holiday cottages on the Isle of Wight for 2-10 people? PM me.

Offline A7 UFO

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,052
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #22 on: 24 June 2009, 16:52 »
I ran lightweight 15x7 Compomotives with 195/45 et15 and was very pleased with performance....but at the time I was only running 175bhp/150lbs 2.0 16v so it didn't have much power to put down.  Increasing the bhp and more than doubling the torque figure and there wasn't enough grip...hence going 9x16 with 215/45s.  Has it made a difference - yes.

Why else would VW have specced them on the high performance Golfs at the time?

The increased tramlining and road noise probably outweighed the aesthetic benefits of wider rims/tyres to average Golf GTi buyers at the time.  The high specced Golfs of that time also had soggy springs/shocks and a 4x4 stance...does that mean VW set it up the best for performance that they could?  No, they compromised because it was a car for everyday use.

If wide rims/tyres were such a bad thing why would every kind of motorsport, other than ice racing, run that set up?

Offline petrolh34d

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #23 on: 24 June 2009, 17:17 »
That's a good point, but like you say, I think that you have to have the power to justify the poke.

eiprahs

  • Guest
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #24 on: 24 June 2009, 17:51 »

Offline Diamond Hell

  • Serious forum addict
  • *
  • Posts: 7,992
  • Opinions я Us
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #25 on: 24 June 2009, 18:08 »
Good link and lots to digest.

Who on here is running over 300lb ft of torque through their Golf2?  If they are then they're going to struggle to put that down sensibly no matter how wide the front wheels.  I've seen some serious track Golf2s with 16VTs and they seemed to be putting down their grunt through a 195 on a 7" rim pretty well.

The increased tramlining and road noise probably outweighed the aesthetic benefits of wider rims/tyres to average Golf GTi buyers at the time.  The high specced Golfs of that time also had soggy springs/shocks and a 4x4 stance...does that mean VW set it up the best for performance that they could?  No, they compromised because it was a car for everyday use.

It was set up for the best performance they could acheive in everyday conditions.  Those are the conditions in which you drive your Golf, unless it's a track car.

I was referring to Golfs like the G60 and Limited.  I don't recall the road tests of these cars commenting on the soggy springs and shocks.  

I think you're suggesting that ride height is inversely proportional to 'handling'.  That's very much not the case and there's an awful lot of theory as well as anecdotal evidence to confirm that.

If wide rims/tyres were such a bad thing why would every kind of motorsport, other than ice racing, run that set up?

Ummmm, I don't think they do.  Let's have a look at the VW GTI series (and many others like it).  Hell, let's even look at WRC cars on tarmac rallies.  

I suspect there are an awful lot of competition motors out there running on 7" wide rims.  Of course touring and Formula cars run wide wheels, but then the downforce they're working with is HUGE!

Compare cars of the era that were fitted with the sort of width rim you're proposing is a good idea to fit to a Golf2 - you're into Porsche 928s and the like.  Much much heavier cars, with much much more power.  

I'm going to maintain that the only thing rims wider than 7" with wide tyres is going to yield is just much higher tyre bills when you need to replace the tyres.
Just because you're offended doesn't make you right.

Holiday cottages on the Isle of Wight for 2-10 people? PM me.

Offline Horney

  • 10k hero
  • *
  • Posts: 10,782
  • Racing, Trackdays, Starwars.
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #26 on: 24 June 2009, 18:37 »
MKII GTi Champ cars run 185 60 14 or 195 50 15 Toyo R888's. To be honest tyre quality makes far more of a difference than width. Good skinny tyres are way better than cheap stretched nankangs.

Nick

Offline A7 UFO

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,052
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #27 on: 24 June 2009, 19:40 »
Who on here is running over 300lb ft of torque through their Golf2?
err me.  I'm talking from experience.

I was referring to Golfs like the G60 and Limited.  I don't recall the road tests of these cars commenting on the soggy springs and shocks.  
how many G60 owners do you know that haven't uprated their suspension?

I think you're suggesting that ride height is inversely proportional to 'handling'.  That's very much not the case and there's an awful lot of theory as well as anecdotal evidence to confirm that.
Ride height is important to centre of gravity isn't it?  I was moreso suggesting that the standard suspension leads itself to comfort (and consequent lean) as much as performance. 

I'm going to maintain that the only thing rims wider than 7" with wide tyres is going to yield is just much higher tyre bills when you need to replace the tyres.
how about if someone just likes the look?  Afterall, clear rear lenses do not improve the efficiency of your brake lights...so why do it?  Our arguement could roll on but a high powered car will, with matching chassis and tyres, have more traction with wider tyres.  It's fuel economy and top speed will be less.

Has my traction improved from running wider rims/tyres...yes.  Do I suffer extra tramlining, road noise and expense when replacing...yes.  Will the owner of an 8v mk2 be bothered about the above negatives compared to the elation he gets when he stands back and looks at it...if he's into that most likely otherwise he wouldn't have asked.

Offline Reasty

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,070
  • Alpine white valver.
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #28 on: 24 June 2009, 19:52 »
Im thinking of putting 8x16s all round on my mk2 16v with 195-40-16s and my golfs been lowered 80mm,im hoping they go straight on but i guess ill find out?!

Offline Diamond Hell

  • Serious forum addict
  • *
  • Posts: 7,992
  • Opinions я Us
Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #29 on: 24 June 2009, 20:00 »
how many G60 owners do you know that haven't uprated their suspension?

I know one who's putting their suspension back up right about now.

Ride height is important to centre of gravity isn't it?  I was moreso suggesting that the standard suspension leads itself to comfort (and consequent lean) as much as performance. 

You REALLY need to do some reading.  Centre of gravity isn't the issue here.

high powered car will, with matching chassis and tyres, have more traction with wider tyres.

Matching chassis and tyres?  How are you 'matching' them?  You need to read the link above (among a long list of other material).  Your statement is balls in some situations and a Golf2 on uber-wide wheels is one of those.
Just because you're offended doesn't make you right.

Holiday cottages on the Isle of Wight for 2-10 people? PM me.