Author Topic: How wide can I go..?  (Read 7374 times)

Offline dubsport

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #30 on: 24 June 2009, 22:21 »
195/50 R15, on either 6.5 or 7" wide rim.

Cheaper than many other sizes and very wide choice and good stock availability.

It also handles well on them.

Why else would VW have specced them on the high performance Golfs at the time?

sweet thats what im running  :smiley:

Offline A7 UFO

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #31 on: 25 June 2009, 10:51 »
how many G60 owners do you know that haven't uprated their suspension?

I know one who's putting their suspension back up right about now.
Really, one whole person? 

Ride height is important to centre of gravity isn't it?  I was moreso suggesting that the standard suspension leads itself to comfort (and consequent lean) as much as performance. 
You REALLY need to do some reading.  Centre of gravity isn't the issue here.
Wow resorting to caps lock now to get your point across.  The cog obviously needs to be kept as low as possible. It is the theoretical point that the car will balance from if it were suspended in free air. From a handling point-of-view it is one of the most important variables to consider.

high powered car will, with matching chassis and tyres, have more traction with wider tyres.
Matching chassis and tyres?  How are you 'matching' them?  You need to read the link above (among a long list of other material).  Your statement is balls in some situations and a Golf2 on uber-wide wheels is one of those.
With the same suspension set up, ARBs etc and brand of performance tyres.  My opinion is 'balls'?  I'm disappointed that you have to take what was an interesting chat to such a basic level.  You going to start name calling next?

This thread started off with a basic question that I answered.  Yes there will be downsides to someone running wider wheels than standard but if that is the look they want then who are you to judge?  Nigh on everyone on this forum has lowered their vehicle from standard...are you going to criticise them for that because there are just as many negatives involved in daily driving.

From the link provided earlier...
Quote
So why do wider tyres perform better when cornering? Well apart from the softer rubber compound giving better mechanical keying and a higher coefficient of friction, they have lower profile sidewalls. This makes them more resistant to deforming under lateral load, resulting in a more predictable and stable contact patch. In other words, you can get to a higher lateral load before reaching the peak slip angle.
Quote
So do wider tyres give better grip?
If the contact patch remains the same size and the coefficient of friction and frictional force remain the same, then surely there is no difference in performance between narrow and wide tyres? Well there is but it has a lot to do with heat transfer. With a narrow tyre, the contact patch takes up more of the circumference of the tyre so for any given rotation, the sidewall has to compress more to get the contact patch on to the road. Deforming the tyre creates heat. With a longer contact patch and more sidewall deformation, the tyre spends proportionately less time cooling off than a wider tyre which has a shorter contact patch and less sidewall deformation. Why does this matter? Well because the narrower tyre has less capacity for cooling off, it needs to be made of a harder rubber compound in order to better resist heating in the first place. The harder compound has less mechanical keying and a lower coefficient of friction. The wider tyres are typically made of softer compounds with greater mechanical keying and a higher coefficient of friction. And voila - wider tyres = better grip. But not for the reasons we all thought.

VeeDubGTI16v

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #32 on: 25 June 2009, 11:08 »
there is no rule to say this size tyre on this car. there are far too many variables to consider

Offline DOA

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #33 on: 26 June 2009, 01:27 »
Lol, always has to be an arguement with one member  :rolleyes:.
 Btw, most of the racecars mentioned in the examples used in this thread are regulated on the maximum tyre widths to reduce cornering speeds but the open cars probably wouldnt use much wider tyres anyway due to the aero drag hit they would take being greater than the extra grip/traction they could get (open tyres are incredibly draggy!). The only recent good example of a racecar using wider tyres than the norm is the new Acura LMP1 prototype in ALMS which uses wider fronts than most of its competitors and is somewhat compromised in doing this (I point you now to Junes edition of Racecar Engineering) although they seem happy with their compromises. The F1 boys are looking at using narrower tyres at the front now the grooves have gone to balance the car out and the tyre manufacturer beleives its the way forward too, though the rears will stay as wide as the regs allow.

Anyway, if any of you are really interesteed in the whys and wherefores of what your "discussing", have a read of http://www.amazon.com/Race-Vehicle-Dynamics-book-workbook/dp/0768001218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245975131&sr=8-1 which is the Bible of suspension design and read through some of these news letters from Mark Ortiz who writes for Racecar Engineering http://www.theoryinpracticeengineering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10 (the last one is links to someone elses forum but all of his articles are on there, you just have to dig through the nascar rubbish :P. If you want to receive them yourself you can email him direct IIRC and he adds you to his mailing list). I wont bore you all with my explanations of the subjects raised here as I wont do as good a job as the book and articles in the links.

« Last Edit: 26 June 2009, 01:41 by DOA »

Offline AdamMk2

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #34 on: 08 July 2009, 19:16 »
Im running 8's up front with an et of 1 I believe and 9s at rear with an et of -5

Get your arches rolled, but only to the extent of removing the top rivet hole then fading out to the two next lower ones which you will need.

Dont bond the arch on  :laugh:, buy the correct rivets from VW that are coated   N 906 349 01. and cut some inner plastic arch away as it rubs  :cool:

Good luck mate  :smiley:

Offline russ-vdub

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #35 on: 09 July 2009, 16:08 »
how many G60 owners do you know that haven't uprated their suspension?

I know one who's putting their suspension back up right about now.
Really, one whole person? 

Ride height is important to centre of gravity isn't it?  I was moreso suggesting that the standard suspension leads itself to comfort (and consequent lean) as much as performance. 
You REALLY need to do some reading.  Centre of gravity isn't the issue here.
Wow resorting to caps lock now to get your point across.  The cog obviously needs to be kept as low as possible. It is the theoretical point that the car will balance from if it were suspended in free air. From a handling point-of-view it is one of the most important variables to consider.

high powered car will, with matching chassis and tyres, have more traction with wider tyres.
Matching chassis and tyres?  How are you 'matching' them?  You need to read the link above (among a long list of other material).  Your statement is balls in some situations and a Golf2 on uber-wide wheels is one of those.
With the same suspension set up, ARBs etc and brand of performance tyres.  My opinion is 'balls'?  I'm disappointed that you have to take what was an interesting chat to such a basic level.  You going to start name calling next?

This thread started off with a basic question that I answered.  Yes there will be downsides to someone running wider wheels than standard but if that is the look they want then who are you to judge?  Nigh on everyone on this forum has lowered their vehicle from standard...are you going to criticise them for that because there are just as many negatives involved in daily driving.

From the link provided earlier...
Quote
So why do wider tyres perform better when cornering? Well apart from the softer rubber compound giving better mechanical keying and a higher coefficient of friction, they have lower profile sidewalls. This makes them more resistant to deforming under lateral load, resulting in a more predictable and stable contact patch. In other words, you can get to a higher lateral load before reaching the peak slip angle.
Quote
So do wider tyres give better grip?
If the contact patch remains the same size and the coefficient of friction and frictional force remain the same, then surely there is no difference in performance between narrow and wide tyres? Well there is but it has a lot to do with heat transfer. With a narrow tyre, the contact patch takes up more of the circumference of the tyre so for any given rotation, the sidewall has to compress more to get the contact patch on to the road. Deforming the tyre creates heat. With a longer contact patch and more sidewall deformation, the tyre spends proportionately less time cooling off than a wider tyre which has a shorter contact patch and less sidewall deformation. Why does this matter? Well because the narrower tyre has less capacity for cooling off, it needs to be made of a harder rubber compound in order to better resist heating in the first place. The harder compound has less mechanical keying and a lower coefficient of friction. The wider tyres are typically made of softer compounds with greater mechanical keying and a higher coefficient of friction. And voila - wider tyres = better grip. But not for the reasons we all thought.


I'm with you all the way on this one. Some people have extremely dated views where as "if Vw made it like it, it must be the best way" etc etc...? Imo don't bother trying to correct Hell, its a complete waste of time because he knows absolutely everything about everything. I ignore all posts from it now!

Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #36 on: 09 July 2009, 23:27 »
Do you live under a bridge?
Just because you're offended doesn't make you right.

Holiday cottages on the Isle of Wight for 2-10 people? PM me.

Offline Reasty

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #37 on: 12 July 2009, 18:12 »
Ive just put 8x16s on my 16v which is lowered 80mm,im running 195-40-16 tyres and the wheels have a 35mm offset.
No rubbing at all not even on full lock,i can still get my fingers between the tyres and the arch! HAPPY DAY!!!! :grin:

Offline SoundillusioN

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #38 on: 10 February 2011, 09:18 »
^^^ what the feck?... p155 off!

Offline tech1889

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Re: How wide can I go..?
« Reply #39 on: 10 February 2011, 14:45 »
Is that acura a daily drive ??
Mk4 Golf GTI anniversary and mk6 golf tdi :)