Some DSG Questions.....

[ifti]

Hi all

I havent got a GTI yet, but am very interested in getting one around May/June of this year. I'd like a MK5 model, maybe around £12-13k to spend.

Anyways, Im still thinking about whether I would want DSG or not. Obviously its quite a breakthrough, and the fact that the car is faster is quite obvious given the fact that you lose no momentum when changing gear etc and with 'Launch Control'. However, Im still a little confused and have a few questions. I would be very grateful for any replies. Ive been browsing the forum for a while and have the jist about DSG, but still have many questions....Im not looking for an arguement about why manual is better, or why DSG is better, since we've had that in another thread already. Im just after a better understanding of DSG overall....

Here I go.....

Automatic
1. When in auto mode, Im assuming the gears change quite early in the revs? Hence you should be able to get better MPG? Am I correct in assuming this? If so it would be perfect since I could use that to get to work and back, then shift it into manual for when I want some fun!

Manual
2. When using manual, I understand you can shift up/down with the Gear Knob, or the paddles (if you have them). However, is it true that if you reach the 'redline' on the revs, the car shifts up for you anyway?
3. Does the dash display the current gear you are in?
4. If you are traveling in 4th Gear, and you come to a 2nd Gear corner, as you brake do you have to shift down or does the car shift down automatically as you brake? If you need to shift down yourself, does the car jolt as you shift down to a lower gear which doesnt match the revs?
5. Ive heard talk of the car jolting, and not being smooth, when using the manual transmission in lower gears - is this correct? If so, why does this happen and can it be corrected by the driver?
6. When changing up a gear, do you need to remove your foot from the accelerator, and then put your foot down again - as you would if you had a clutch pedal - or do you just keep your foot where it is and not release the pedel at all?
7. Is it correct that when in manual you cant change gear while turning, say around a roundabout, for example?


Sport
8. So in this mode, the car is in automatic tranny, but takes the revs to the highest point between each gear change?
9. Why would someone use this over the manual mode in that case? Since even with manual if you reach the top rev, it will shift up for you - just as sport does?!


Launch Control
10. I understand you can use this with both Sport and Manual tranny modes - what happens if you use Launch Control with ESP still on?
11. When in sport or manual, by keeping your foot on the brake, bringing the car to 2400rpm, then letting go of the brake, do you automatically use Launch Control, or is there some other button etc to be pressed to inform the car you want to 'launch'?

Overall
12. When changing between manual/auto/sport modes, do you need to bring the car to a stop, or can you change even while the car is moving?


Sorry for so many questions, but I want to fully understand DSG before I either get it, or rule it out.
The added bonus is that the wife only drives auto cars, so she could drive it as well - if I ever let her (although its a good arguement in convincing her that we want a GTI ) Although Im concerned that not having a manual will take all the fun away from driving, and make driving 'boring'.......

[matsu]

first time in a dsg yesterday. def will NOT take the fun out of driving. i am converted mate!!!

yeah all your points seem there,but bear in mind i only tested one few hours ago so i might have forgot some pointers!

matsu

[SO8]

Hi all

I havent got a GTI yet, but am very interested in getting one around May/June of this year. I'd like a MK5 model, maybe around £12-13k to spend.

Anyways, Im still thinking about whether I would want DSG or not. Obviously its quite a breakthrough, and the fact that the car is faster is quite obvious given the fact that you lose no momentum when changing gear etc and with 'Launch Control'. However, Im still a little confused and have a few questions. I would be very grateful for any replies. Ive been browsing the forum for a while and have the jist about DSG, but still have many questions....Im not looking for an arguement about why manual is better, or why DSG is better, since we've had that in another thread already. Im just after a better understanding of DSG overall....

Here I go.....

Automatic
1. When in auto mode, Im assuming the gears change quite early in the revs? Hence you should be able to get better MPG? Am I correct in assuming this? If so it would be perfect since I could use that to get to work and back, then shift it into manual for when I want some fun!

Manual
2. When using manual, I understand you can shift up/down with the Gear Knob, or the paddles (if you have them). However, is it true that if you reach the 'redline' on the revs, the car shifts up for you anyway?
3. Does the dash display the current gear you are in?
4. If you are traveling in 4th Gear, and you come to a 2nd Gear corner, as you brake do you have to shift down or does the car shift down automatically as you brake? If you need to shift down yourself, does the car jolt as you shift down to a lower gear which doesnt match the revs?
5. Ive heard talk of the car jolting, and not being smooth, when using the manual transmission in lower gears - is this correct? If so, why does this happen and can it be corrected by the driver?
6. When changing up a gear, do you need to remove your foot from the accelerator, and then put your foot down again - as you would if you had a clutch pedal - or do you just keep your foot where it is and not release the pedel at all?
7. Is it correct that when in manual you cant change gear while turning, say around a roundabout, for example?


Sport
8. So in this mode, the car is in automatic tranny, but takes the revs to the highest point between each gear change?
9. Why would someone use this over the manual mode in that case? Since even with manual if you reach the top rev, it will shift up for you - just as sport does?!


Launch Control
10. I understand you can use this with both Sport and Manual tranny modes - what happens if you use Launch Control with ESP still on?
11. When in sport or manual, by keeping your foot on the brake, bringing the car to 2400rpm, then letting go of the brake, do you automatically use Launch Control, or is there some other button etc to be pressed to inform the car you want to 'launch'?

Overall
12. When changing between manual/auto/sport modes, do you need to bring the car to a stop, or can you change even while the car is moving?


Sorry for so many questions, but I want to fully understand DSG before I either get it, or rule it out.
The added bonus is that the wife only drives auto cars, so she could drive it as well - if I ever let her (although its a good arguement in convincing her that we want a GTI ) Although Im concerned that not having a manual will take all the fun away from driving, and make driving 'boring'.......

I have a DSG Ed 30 ... I live near London in a world of traffic and speed humps... so love the DSG.  I still feel though that for true control a manual is going to be better .... just that for me, and my driving style I prefer the DSG.  If every day were a 'B' road I would want a manual.  Life, though, is a bit different most of the time!

In answer to your questions :

1. Yes.
2. Yes - it will not bang into the limiter; it changes anyway.
3. Yes.
4. It shifts itself in auto ... if in manual and you don't shift down it will still do it for you as once you reach a point - having not changed down to an appropriate gear - the gearbox does it anyway .... though this is not a good way to drive it as it only changes like this when it absolutely has to.
5. Mine is fine - though the ECU for the gearbox learns your driving style and this can probably affect how smooth it is in manual mode.
6. It is just like a full auto - keep your foot on the pedal and it does it for you.
7. No, don't think that is the case - if steering is 'set' in a roundabout it just changes as normal.  I don't think there is a steering sensor like on say he Mazda 3 MPS that won't give full boost when steering.
8. Yes.
9. Because in manual mode you can hold a gear at certain revs, say between corners, as opposed to change whereas in sports mode if you stay at certain revs for say 10 seconds it will probably drop into the next gear - depending on the circumstances - as it doesn't truly know exactly what you want .... in manual mode you have loads more control.  'Sport' is really a more aggressive 'drive' mode that holds revs and is more 'reluctant' to change up.
10. You can't - it won't engage unless it's off.
11. See above - you need to turn the TC / ESP off and follow a sequence which is explained in the manual. 
12. No, can change on the move no problem - I do it all the time depending on the road and circumstances.

[ifti]

Brill, you've been very helpful and I understand DSG a little better now.
Its a tough choice to make and I dont want to make the wrong one and bugger myself up!

I mainly drive on motorways to get to work and back, and do a bit of town driving - where auto would come in useful I guess. On most mornings I get stuck in some traffic in certain spots - which is why I think the auto would be cool. And then when I get into open areas etc I could shift it into manual and plant my right foot down!

Does it take long to get used to the manual pedals etc with DSG, considering Ive only ever driven a full auto, or a full manual before?

[bobotheclown]

never mind, should read the thread first before posting

[neg]

Agree with whats wrote, some comments...
1. Although correct, all depends on how heavy your foot it to when it changes
4. If your in manual, the gearbox wont work at a gear it cant so it changes to what it needs.  When driving in manual I find this really good as you can forget your in manual when pulling upto lights so you can let it do what it needs - there is no problem doing this.
5. During driving I dont notice any jolts.  When going from D to R and back its good to give the car a couple of secs to engage the gear before hitting the throttle otherwise on occasion you can get a jolt - which isnt helpful when reversing into a space for example.
6. Thats the great thing, just keep it planted 
7. You can change whilst cornering


I find the DSG a great tool, makes for easy town driving, fun country road driving - it really is the best of both worlds.

It does take a little getting used to how it works but once your there its great.  I dont like kickdown, I prefer to use manual and choose the gear myself. When using manual its best to foot down and then change to get the best response as the gearbox then knows your wanting to go faster, rather than chance then foot down - which could be where people get a slight jolt from.

Either way you'll love it and struggle without it after you've been in one for while.

[Hurdy]

Brill, you've been very helpful and I understand DSG a little better now.
Its a tough choice to make and I dont want to make the wrong one and bugger myself up!

I mainly drive on motorways to get to work and back, and do a bit of town driving - where auto would come in useful I guess. On most mornings I get stuck in some traffic in certain spots - which is why I think the auto would be cool. And then when I get into open areas etc I could shift it into manual and plant my right foot down!

Does it take long to get used to the manual pedals etc with DSG, considering Ive only ever driven a full auto, or a full manual before?

Do you mean manual paddles?
If so then they do take a little getting used to. The issue I had is that the paddles are mounted to the wheel and as such rotate with it. This can make it a little awkward to use, say when setting off and turning at a T junction. For this maneouvre I used to drop back to using the + and - on the gearstick. Now I have fitted extensions to the paddles they are much easier to use and I no longer have to drop back to the gearstick.

The pedals on the floor are the same as an auto.

[DOTE]

Sounds obvious but the best way to decide whether to go DSG or not is a test drive, from talking to others it seems you either love it or hate it - I tried both and absolutely loved the DSG, so went for it.  The seamless power as you accelerate is addictive!  Plus you can just chill out in drive (auto) mode in heavy traffic or the motorway, or flick through the gears manually using the paddles or the stick - it really does suit all types of driving in my opinion, you just go between manual and auto as driving conditions change.

Just one point on the jerkiness you mentioned in question 5.  I find the box super smooth at all times in drive (auto), and the same in manual when going up through the gears.  However, as you've been told, I do find it can occasionally be slightly jerky, in manual mode when you change down into 2nd or 1st when coming to a stop, this is regardless of whether you change down yourself or let the box do it itself (which it will do if you don't change down yourself to avoid stalling the engine.)  I'd be interested to know if this is a characteristic that others have noticed.  I kind of expected it with a dual clutch in the lower gears compared to the standard auto torque converters that smooth out the changes, but if everyone else always gets silky smooth changes changing down in the lower gears then maybe it needs looking at.

ATB

[ifti]

Really appreciate all the responses, thanks guys

I didnt want to just base my decision on a test drive, since I know it would take a little while to get used to and I dont want to be put off with the big change on a single drive - hence the reason why I wanted your views.

Having a dual cluth, are there any known issues with DSG?? Am I going to be looking at having it repaired more often then a manual?? I ask as I understand BMW M3 owners regularly had their cars taken back to the garage with their SMG issues!
I guess it could be down to how you drive or on tha basis that, if somet is fonna happen, its gonna happen no matter what!

[neg]

Some people have had problems with the electroins unit but really these seem to get picked up early in its life - a few of us now have over 50k miles on DSG boxes and are remapped.

Edit:  You do have to have the DSG oil changed every 40k miles which can be a couple of hundred quid