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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Ooosh on 24 January 2023, 09:35

Title: CSS v GT4
Post by: Ooosh on 24 January 2023, 09:35
I used to own a 981 GT4 and have a 718 GT4 on order. Spent the afternoon at the Porsche Experience Centre at Silverstone yesterday and then drove my 40,000 mile CSS home.

I can honestly say that the CSS feels just as special as the GT4.

Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: jaceyboy on 24 January 2023, 09:40
Cancel the GT4 :grin:
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: Ooosh on 24 January 2023, 12:50
Cancel the GT4 :grin:

I am actually tempted to.
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: Exonian on 24 January 2023, 13:26
Yes, do that and buy a spare CSS!
… which of course you could let me borrow to keep it freed up  :whistle:
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: clubsport on 24 January 2023, 19:38

I can honestly say that the CSS feels just as special as the GT4.

I feel the CSS feels more special than a 718 GT4, the CSS is a great GTi where as the 718 is a good Porsche? :)
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: Ooosh on 24 January 2023, 19:51
Was tempted https://www.jksc.co.uk/details/used-car-in-stourbridge/volkswagen/golf/2.0/752751/ (https://www.jksc.co.uk/details/used-car-in-stourbridge/volkswagen/golf/2.0/752751/).
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: clubsport on 24 January 2023, 20:06
Very nice, but in the current environment it would cost at least £1 a mile in depreciation for the first 10k miles....

This one with quite a few owners has lost a few more £££

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202203043199660?sort=datedesc&year-to=2017&advertising-location=at_cars&make=Volkswagen&model=Golf&year-from=2016&keywords=clubsport&min-engine-power=250&include-delivery-option=on&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&radius=1500&body-type=Hatchback&postcode=br51je&fuel-type=Petrol&maximum-mileage=15000&page=1&percentVehiclePriceDeposit=true

A 26 (delivery)mileage CSS at that price is a tough call, is it a new car or investment?
It makes sense to buy a slightly higher mileage car if you intend to actually drive it?
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: fredgroves on 24 January 2023, 20:37
6 owners with 12k miles?!!

Thats a lot of garage queening.

Probably 12k is the driving distance between the 6 owners  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: Ooosh on 25 January 2023, 10:17
Very nice, but in the current environment it would cost at least £1 a mile in depreciation for the first 10k miles....

A 26 (delivery)mileage CSS at that price is a tough call, is it a new car or investment?
It makes sense to buy a slightly higher mileage car if you intend to actually drive it?

My car has 40,000 miles on it. It is black.

I always wanted a white CSS so I was tempted by the 'new' one. It has sold now so I don't need to think about it anymore!

And yes I was going to drive it. Just like my current car. Its a daily driver.
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: Yusee on 25 January 2023, 11:40
Was tempted https://www.jksc.co.uk/details/used-car-in-stourbridge/volkswagen/golf/2.0/752751/ (https://www.jksc.co.uk/details/used-car-in-stourbridge/volkswagen/golf/2.0/752751/).

I can understand why you were tempted. Do you know how long it was on the market and whether it would have achieved close to asking price?

I don’t think cars can ever really be an “ investment”, unless they become extremely rare and sought after. At best, a buyer can break even on running costs while enjoying ownership.

Looking at this example- a “ new” unused car, made in very limited numbers and with an almost mythical status amongst hot hatch enthusiasts. Bought for around £34k in 2016. The buyer will have had to store it for 6 and a half years. He hasn’t had the enjoyment of driving it, probably not even the enjoyment of looking at it. And his return is about 6 percent per annum.

Why would anyone do that? I’m no financial guru by any means, but I’m fairly sure I could have achieved better returns on many other investments - and with less hassle.

I saw 3 unused 1980s MGBs on Bangers and Cash recently ( a show which I am addicted to)- achieved £11-12k- well below inflation adjusted price new.

I think 50k would be a very reasonable price for an unused CSS.
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: sjw on 25 January 2023, 11:44
Was tempted https://www.jksc.co.uk/details/used-car-in-stourbridge/volkswagen/golf/2.0/752751/ (https://www.jksc.co.uk/details/used-car-in-stourbridge/volkswagen/golf/2.0/752751/).

I can understand why you were tempted. Do you know how long it was on the market and whether it would have achieved close to asking price?

I don’t think cars can ever really be an “ investment”, unless they become extremely rare and sought after. At best, a buyer can break even on running costs while enjoying ownership.

Looking at this example- a “ new” unused car, made in very limited numbers and with an almost mythical status amongst hot hatch enthusiasts. Bought for around £34k in 2016. The buyer will have had to store it for 6 and a half years. He hasn’t had the enjoyment of driving it, probably not even the enjoyment of looking at it. And his return is about 6 percent per annum.

Why would anyone do that? I’m no financial guru by any means, but I’m fairly sure I could have achieved better returns on many other investments - and with less hassle.

I saw 3 unused 1980s MGBs on Bangers and Cash recently ( a show which I am addicted to)- achieved £11-12k- well below inflation adjusted price new.

I think 50k would be a very reasonable price for an unused CSS.

I can't! It's £53k for a Mk7 Golf!
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: Yusee on 25 January 2023, 11:52
Yeah but it’s not any old golf.

An integrale is not just a lancia delta. Imagine paying £97k for an Italian family car designed in the 1980s. That’s what they’re advertised for now.
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: EB2019 on 25 January 2023, 12:34
I think an Intergrale differences to the normal family Delta, or HF Turbo are vast compared to the Mk7 CS to GTi differences. Its not a Yaris GR level of changes, its not even Renault R26R level is it?

But I do agree about what we think is high now compared to where it will be in 20 years time. At Least OP uses his car!


Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: Yusee on 25 January 2023, 13:00
I think an Intergrale differences to the normal family Delta, or HF Turbo are vast compared to the Mk7 CS to GTi differences. Its not a Yaris GR level of changes, its not even Renault R26R level.

But I do agree about what we think is high now compared to where it will be in 20 years time. At Least OP uses his car!

I do wonder if its all going to crash at some point, but I've been saying it for years and the prices keep rising, so what do I know :D

Yes, I agree- it’s not engineered to the same degree from “ baseline “ as the other cars you mention.

On the issue about where prices will go- that’s the main point of my post- it’s been a pretty ordinary investment for the owner despite this being an extraordinary and rare car, at a time of high inflation.

So buy it and enjoy it.
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: Ooosh on 25 January 2023, 13:22

I can't! It's £53k for a Mk7 Golf!

Ah - have you factored in that I paid list for my Golf in 2016 and even if I sell it now I would likely get around 28-29000 for it. Thats free motoring as far as I am concerned.

Say it's £22,000 to change - thats the way I was thinking about it. Man maths maybe!
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: AGB on 26 January 2023, 15:32
I used to own a 981 GT4 and have a 718 GT4 on order. Spent the afternoon at the Porsche Experience Centre at Silverstone yesterday and then drove my 40,000 mile CSS home.

I can honestly say that the CSS feels just as special as the GT4.

I absolutely agree. The CSS is a 'if you know, you know' car and very little will come close to it on a B-road.

Dealer offered me choice of 718 GT4 or Spyder back in 2019. Delivery would've been April 2020 so whether that would have happened given world events... I debated running the 718 Spyder in parallel to the 981 GT4 as they were sufficiently different but I'd run a Cayman R in parallel to the 981 for about 3 years and I wanted a more practical second car. PEC car didn't convince me so I replaced the R with a CSS that hadn't even done run in miles. I think I would have felt regret if the CSS isn't so special and ironically, it has appreciated whereas the R is not even back near what I paid for it new in 2012. I have on more than one occasion considered getting a delivery mileage CSS for a go round but the premium for that privilege is a bit much.

They must be making a huge number of 718 GT4s though even with C19/chip shortage production issues. What colour have you gone for?
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: AGB on 26 January 2023, 15:52

I can't! It's £53k for a Mk7 Golf!

Ah - have you factored in that I paid list for my Golf in 2016 and even if I sell it now I would likely get around 28-29000 for it. Thats free motoring as far as I am concerned.

Say it's £22,000 to change - thats the way I was thinking about it. Man maths maybe!

I think you've picked up the calculator that I use.  :grin:

At least the CSS is a limited edition car so there isn't this artificial inflation based on the ambiguity of 'low production numbers'.

Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: sjw on 26 January 2023, 16:07
I used to own a 981 GT4 and have a 718 GT4 on order. Spent the afternoon at the Porsche Experience Centre at Silverstone yesterday and then drove my 40,000 mile CSS home.

I can honestly say that the CSS feels just as special as the GT4.

I absolutely agree. The CSS is a 'if you know, you know' car and very little will come close to it on a B-road.

Dealer offered me choice of 718 GT4 or Spyder back in 2019. Delivery would've been April 2020 so whether that would have happened given world events... I debated running the 718 Spyder in parallel to the 981 GT4 as they were sufficiently different but I'd run a Cayman R in parallel to the 981 for about 3 years and I wanted a more practical second car. PEC car didn't convince me so I replaced the R with a CSS that hadn't even done run in miles. I think I would have felt regret if the CSS isn't so special and ironically, it has appreciated whereas the R is not even back near what I paid for it new in 2012. I have on more than one occasion considered getting a delivery mileage CSS for a go round but the premium for that privilege is a bit much.

They must be making a huge number of 718 GT4s though even with C19/chip shortage production issues. What colour have you gone for?

Is there a definitive list anywhere of all the differences between a GTI PP and a Clubsport S? Not cosmetic, but performance-wise. I assume the CSS has the R engine/turbo. Are there suspension differences? Obviously the latter is a bit lighter with no rear seats. What else would be needed to do a CSS-style build on a PP?
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: clubsport on 26 January 2023, 16:36
sjw

There are quite a few threads on the differences between PP -Cs -CSS.

The search is your friend going back to 2016 when they were announced, there is a chart of parts differences with part numbers somewhere on thuis thread..... I don;t have time to go through the whole thing, but the information has all been posted previously on this forum.

https://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=278850.0
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: sjw on 26 January 2023, 16:44
sjw

There are quite a few threads on the differences between PP -Cs -CSS.

The search is your friend going back to 2016 when they were announced, there is a chart of parts differences with part numbers somewhere on thuis thread..... I don;t have time to go through the whole thing, but the information has all been posted previously on this forum.

https://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=278850.0

Nice one, thanks  :smiley:
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: Exonian on 26 January 2023, 18:38
^^^^ I wonder where those flip ‘n’ run owners in that thread are now?
Well, I don’t wonder actually but you get my drift.


There are just two cars I regret not buying when I had the chance: Lupo GTI and Golf CSS.

Ok, maybe a mk4 R32 and GR Yaris when they did them on 0% for the first run.

Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: EB2019 on 26 January 2023, 18:59
^^I here you

This is the part number of different parts, the lower front arms weren't different but the rear bushes in the front arms have a smaller void, so that was the reason for the part number change. The front hubs were different and that required different bearings but its only VAQ parts bin stuff.

I have the discs and pads as they are on the TCR too. I also fitted the rear ARB to my old GTi PP back in 2016-17

(https://i.postimg.cc/pT9B45SB/Capture.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: CSS v GT4
Post by: AGB on 26 January 2023, 19:20
I used to own a 981 GT4 and have a 718 GT4 on order. Spent the afternoon at the Porsche Experience Centre at Silverstone yesterday and then drove my 40,000 mile CSS home.

I can honestly say that the CSS feels just as special as the GT4.

I absolutely agree. The CSS is a 'if you know, you know' car and very little will come close to it on a B-road.

Dealer offered me choice of 718 GT4 or Spyder back in 2019. Delivery would've been April 2020 so whether that would have happened given world events... I debated running the 718 Spyder in parallel to the 981 GT4 as they were sufficiently different but I'd run a Cayman R in parallel to the 981 for about 3 years and I wanted a more practical second car. PEC car didn't convince me so I replaced the R with a CSS that hadn't even done run in miles. I think I would have felt regret if the CSS isn't so special and ironically, it has appreciated whereas the R is not even back near what I paid for it new in 2012. I have on more than one occasion considered getting a delivery mileage CSS for a go round but the premium for that privilege is a bit much.

They must be making a huge number of 718 GT4s though even with C19/chip shortage production issues. What colour have you gone for?

Is there a definitive list anywhere of all the differences between a GTI PP and a Clubsport S? Not cosmetic, but performance-wise. I assume the CSS has the R engine/turbo. Are there suspension differences? Obviously the latter is a bit lighter with no rear seats. What else would be needed to do a CSS-style build on a PP?

I think there are some threads elsewhere on the specific part numbers but the launch press release gives a decent walk through.  (https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/international-driving-presentation-the-new-golf-gti-clubsport-s-2776/key-aspects-the-golf-gti-clubsport-s-in-detail-2799)