GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Exonian on 09 January 2020, 21:44
-
You can order another proper GTI again!
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-gti-relaunched-uk-2020
How much??? :shocked:
-
Tidy little price increase that... Must be the new style VW badges. :shocked:
-
Tidy little price increase that... Must be the new style VW badges. :shocked:
If they can do that increase to the up! what will they do with the golf?!?! :shocked:
-
Throw in a couple of options and that's 113bhp for £16k which correlates pretty much exactly with a well optioned TCR and 290bhp for £42k :smiley:
-
Tidy little price increase that... Must be the new style VW badges. :shocked:
If they can do that increase to the up! what will they do with the golf?!?! :shocked:
My guess is that there will be two variants of the Mk8 GTI... one for about £35k basic list and a juicier one for £37k basic list. The latter will be over £40k if you add more than two options.
Its certainly going to be the case that a north of 40k GTI is going be very easy to configure...
-
Tidy little price increase that... Must be the new style VW badges. :shocked:
If they can do that increase to the up! what will they do with the golf?!?! :shocked:
My guess is that there will be two variants of the Mk8 GTI... one for about £35k basic list and a juicier one for £37k basic list. The latter will be over £40k if you add more than two options.
Its certainly going to be the case that a north of 40k GTI is going be very easy to configure...
Wouldn't it be nice if salaries increased at the same rate as car pricing!!! :shocked:
As much as I love my current GTI at this rate I'll be forced to look else where for a cheaper alternative next time around!! :cry:
-
Wouldn't it be nice if salaries increased at the same rate as car pricing!!! :shocked:
As much as I love my current GTI at this rate I'll be forced to look else where for a cheaper alternative next time around!! :cry:
Indeed... or that the 40k "premium car" penalty was moved upward in line with inflation at the very least.
Year 2-6 road tax hikes of an extra £320 are not something I can afford to ignore - that's an extra £26 a month to find.
The laughable thing with that is that there aren't any zero emissions breaks on that either - your Tesla attracts it too.
-
Wouldn't it be nice if salaries increased at the same rate as car pricing!!! :shocked:
As much as I love my current GTI at this rate I'll be forced to look else where for a cheaper alternative next time around!! :cry:
Indeed... or that the 40k "premium car" penalty was moved upward in line with inflation at the very least.
Year 2-6 road tax hikes of an extra £320 are not something I can afford to ignore - that's an extra £26 a month to find.
The laughable thing with that is that there aren't any zero emissions breaks on that either - your Tesla attracts it too.
I suppose a greedy government is nothing new, but on top of that the car pricing itself, they really do want us off the roads don't they! :rolleyes: I know we are on a massive high with modern cars being so good but god it can be depressing at the same time!!
-
Wouldn't it be nice if salaries increased at the same rate as car pricing!!! :shocked:
As much as I love my current GTI at this rate I'll be forced to look else where for a cheaper alternative next time around!! :cry:
I already went down that route. Since the missus learned to drive and wanted a car of her own in 2015, household car running costs became much more expensive.
We now have a 2018 and a 2019 Polo GTI+.
£21k after discount with optional 18" Brescias, with 50% GFV after 3 years.
Same performance figures of the original standard MK7 Golf GTI 220ps model, almost as well equipped as a current MK7.5 GTI, as big as a MK4 Golf, more economical. Not a lot of love here for the MK8's looks either.
The Polo GTI+ is a lot of car for the money when compared to a 7.5 Golf GTI at current pricing.
£40k RRP does not buy you an extraordinary car these days, that threshold needs to go up or at least step it so that a £200k car has more VED to pay than a £40k one.
-
I've always driven small cars but next time, for various reasons, need a bigger one. But if I was staying in the 'small car' world, Polo GTI would be a no brainer - looks fantastic, esp in blue or red and Parker (?) wheels. The natural heir to the Mark I Golf GTI?
-
I think my days of having a new car is rapidly coming to a close, or as someone else said, I'll have to look at much cheaper alternatives. Still thinking about a TCR but the cost to change, despite the 3 door cars being mostly a bargain compared with their new prices, is still eye watering, especially since I don't want to go down the finance route. I suspect like many on here, my pay has remained fairly static over the last decade and in real terms gone backwards rather rapidly. Plus, although a few years off, I have an eye on retirement and would like to keep a few pounds in the bank in preparation.
I suppose a greedy government is nothing new, but on top of that the car pricing itself, they really do want us off the roads don't they! :rolleyes: I know we are on a massive high with modern cars being so good but god it can be depressing at the same time!!
But I don't think they do want us off the roads as we drivers are adding so much to the coffers in vat, fuel duty, ved etc. And we are such an easy target, we keep on driving and keep on paying. If we swap to lower rate ved vehicles they just up the rates, there's no getting away from it and really little in the way of a viable alternative. Look at the cost of season tickets on trains :shocked:
-
Wouldn't it be nice if salaries increased at the same rate as car pricing!!! :shocked:
As much as I love my current GTI at this rate I'll be forced to look else where for a cheaper alternative next time around!! :cry:
Indeed... or that the 40k "premium car" penalty was moved upward in line with inflation at the very least.
Year 2-6 road tax hikes of an extra £320 are not something I can afford to ignore - that's an extra £26 a month to find.
The laughable thing with that is that there aren't any zero emissions breaks on that either - your Tesla attracts it too.
I don’t think the trigger point of £40k list price for the premium car enhanced VED rate is likely to increase any time soon; it’s an easy revenue stream for the government - if they keep it at £40k and as vehicle prices continue to increase, more motorists fall into this VED band. :angry:
-
Wouldn't it be nice if salaries increased at the same rate as car pricing!!! :shocked:
As much as I love my current GTI at this rate I'll be forced to look else where for a cheaper alternative next time around!! :cry:
I already went down that route. Since the missus learned to drive and wanted a car of her own in 2015, household car running costs became much more expensive.
We now have a 2018 and a 2019 Polo GTI+.
£21k after discount with optional 18" Brescias, with 50% GFV after 3 years.
Same performance figures of the original standard MK7 Golf GTI 220ps model, almost as well equipped as a current MK7.5 GTI, as big as a MK4 Golf, more economical. Not a lot of love here for the MK8's looks either.
The Polo GTI+ is a lot of car for the money when compared to a 7.5 Golf GTI at current pricing.
£40k RRP does not buy you an extraordinary car these days, that threshold needs to go up or at least step it so that a £200k car has more VED to pay than a £40k one.
Now there's a thought..... I know I don't need to worry about it for a few years but I honestly hadn't even given the Polo a second thought..... YouTube here we come!
I know what you mean about an unfair tax system..... my bosses son at 26 (and absolutely useless!!) is driving round in his fully loaded 200k McLaren and paying the same tax as a golf GTI with 1 or 2 options.... sounds fair!!! :undecided:
-
Wouldn't it be nice if salaries increased at the same rate as car pricing!!! :shocked:
As much as I love my current GTI at this rate I'll be forced to look else where for a cheaper alternative next time around!! :cry:
I already went down that route. Since the missus learned to drive and wanted a car of her own in 2015, household car running costs became much more expensive.
We now have a 2018 and a 2019 Polo GTI+.
£21k after discount with optional 18" Brescias, with 50% GFV after 3 years.
Same performance figures of the original standard MK7 Golf GTI 220ps model, almost as well equipped as a current MK7.5 GTI, as big as a MK4 Golf, more economical. Not a lot of love here for the MK8's looks either.
The Polo GTI+ is a lot of car for the money when compared to a 7.5 Golf GTI at current pricing.
£40k RRP does not buy you an extraordinary car these days, that threshold needs to go up or at least step it so that a £200k car has more VED to pay than a £40k one.
The Polo GTI is completely in the shadow of the Golf GTI as far as the wider public are concerned and I think that’s a crying shame.
The trouble is that as far as Polo vs mk7 goes the feeling you get with the Polo is “it’s just not a Golf” when it comes to certain things.
A good friend of mine had a Polo GTI (not a plus model) for a very short time as he works in the trade and putting it next to my GTI it was very evident where the savings were made, but the Polo GTI+ makes a far better case for itself against a non Performance Pack Golf GTI.
With the likely lower quality interior with loads of shiny ‘piano’ black plastics in a mk8 GTI, the Polo will make an even better case for itself and it’ll be interesting to see if the Polo quietly hikes up in price between the mk7 dying and the mk8 coming on stream.
If the up! GTI can go up £2k because it has a cheaper looking VW roundel and a forward facing camera then God knows what they might ‘justify’ with the Polo GTI in the coming months.
Just like the Fiesta ST is probably both a better looking and more mature looking car (unlike the previous gen chav-chariots) than its bigger ST sibling now, the Polo might be the more discerning choice against a mk8 Golf. Both of the cheaper slightly smaller hot hatches probably have just as quick real world performance and handling if you’re not absolutely ‘on it’ a lot of the time.
What I find a shame is that the Polo isn’t offered with a good old fashioned manual gearbox for £1k less.
The Polo doesn’t have the slight snob value of the Golf (which Golf buyers are happy to pay a huge premium for), so hot hatch enthusiasts could be more attracted to a manual Polo GTI+ as a cheaper more fun GTI that’s not a Ford.
Another crying shame is that (SEAT) Cupra still don’t have a 200 PS version of the Ibiza.
Once dipping below a Golf and therefore eschewing those nice little Golf touches I’d rather be in a current generation Ibiza than a Polo as quality is almost identical and the Ibiza looks much sharper.
(Shame about many SEAT dealers though)
-
My daughter loves her Polo GTi, its a white one with a few tasty extras (18" Brescias, black roof & mirrors, rev cam etc), and it sounds great as she razzes off up the road with the DSG doing rapid upshifts......
-
My daughter loves her Polo GTi, its a white one with a few tasty extras (18" Brescias, black roof & mirrors, rev cam etc), and it sounds great as she razzes off up the road with the DSG doing rapid upshifts......
The 18" Brescias look far better than the standard 17" Parkers - is it a pre Sept 2018 registered model though? Mine without GPF sounds a hell of a lot better than my wife's 2019 model with GPF.
-
No it's a Dec 19. It's her first decent car after a couple of Corsa's ! She's got a few years no claims now, and the reasonable PCP deal they have been offering made it within reach. It does sound nice, so yours must sound even better !
-
The Polo GTI is completely in the shadow of the Golf GTI as far as the wider public are concerned and I think that’s a crying shame.
The trouble is that as far as Polo vs mk7 goes the feeling you get with the Polo is “it’s just not a Golf” when it comes to certain things.
A good friend of mine had a Polo GTI (not a plus model) for a very short time as he works in the trade and putting it next to my GTI it was very evident where the savings were made, but the Polo GTI+ makes a far better case for itself against a non Performance Pack Golf GTI.
With the likely lower quality interior with loads of shiny ‘piano’ black plastics in a mk8 GTI, the Polo will make an even better case for itself and it’ll be interesting to see if the Polo quietly hikes up in price between the mk7 dying and the mk8 coming on stream.
If the up! GTI can go up £2k because it has a cheaper looking VW roundel and a forward facing camera then God knows what they might ‘justify’ with the Polo GTI in the coming months.
Just like the Fiesta ST is probably both a better looking and more mature looking car (unlike the previous gen chav-chariots) than its bigger ST sibling now, the Polo might be the more discerning choice against a mk8 Golf. Both of the cheaper slightly smaller hot hatches probably have just as quick real world performance and handling if you’re not absolutely ‘on it’ a lot of the time.
What I find a shame is that the Polo isn’t offered with a good old fashioned manual gearbox for £1k less.
The Polo doesn’t have the slight snob value of the Golf (which Golf buyers are happy to pay a huge premium for), so hot hatch enthusiasts could be more attracted to a manual Polo GTI+ as a cheaper more fun GTI that’s not a Ford.
Another crying shame is that (SEAT) Cupra still don’t have a 200 PS version of the Ibiza.
Once dipping below a Golf and therefore eschewing those nice little Golf touches I’d rather be in a current generation Ibiza than a Polo as quality is almost identical and the Ibiza looks much sharper.
(Shame about many SEAT dealers though)
Completely agree with all of that. The Polo GTI without the "+" makes for a very sparse car. The + adds £2830 worth of options for about £1650, giving it pretty much everything that the 7.5GTI has, with the exception of dual zone climate. Apart from an easy £1450 profit, not sure why VW wouldn't do a manual box - you could get the Polo GTI with a manual box in Germany and Czech republic for a short while, initially and post WLTP compliance period, you either love DSG or you learn to live with it - i'm definitely in the latter group.
There are very few areas the Polo has obvious cost savings vs the 7.5 Golf, and pretty much all of those savings will be reflected in the MK8 Golf - harder door card plastics on the tops and lack of cloth trim on the rear door cards, bonnet stay rather than gas strut. It has better infotainment than the 7.5, which will almost certainly feature in the MK8.
Hopefully VW won't get greedy and jack the price up without giving something in return (there's not much more equipment you would want as standard, without potentially treading all over the toes of the MK8 Golf when it arrives.
As it stands, the Polo GTI+ is an absolute bargain next to the current lowest denominator MK7.5 Golf GTI, one of the main reasons it is so much cheaper is it is built in South Africa where wages are far lower than those of their Wolfsburg comrades. Will VW ever hive out the Golf production to somewhere cheap like SA or Turkey? Not sure how protectionist the Germans are for domestic jobs, or whether it is all about Euros saved. The French wouldn't stand for it if Peugeot or Renault sent all the jobs elsewhere for the sake of profit.
We looked at an Ibiza for the wife, and I was shocked at how cheap some aspects were - the rear doors still had wind up windows!
Seat seemed to be completely crippled by WLTP requirements at the time we were looking (mid-2018, just after we'd ordered my GTI+), and you couldn't order anything. I couldn't see anything else comparable to the GTI+ for performance, economy, standard equipment and good residuals, so we ordered a second. The wife loves hers, but mine does feel and sound far superior to drive, without the GPF bottleneck.
-
No it's a Dec 19. It's her first decent car after a couple of Corsa's ! She's got a few years no claims now, and the reasonable PCP deal they have been offering made it within reach. It does sound nice, so yours must sound even better !
The difference is very noticeable between mine and the wife's - far more eager in the mid range, feels a lot torquier. Trouble is, the Polo sound insulation is as good as a Golfs, so you have to have the windows down or the sound system off to hear the exhaust pops and farts. The 2018 one pops and farts, the 2019 one just farts. Not a big deal to me, i'd rather be listening to Ozzy or Guns n Roses than listening out for the exhaust in radio silence. Mine does sound good on the rare occasion she takes mine out and I can hear it drive off.
Those Bridgestone Turanza on the Brescias are very hard and slippery though - first thing I did was replace them with Michelin PS4s.
-
Matt how is the infotainment better on the Polo when it's the same unit used in both?
-
Regarding the point made about the price increases, without getting political (well...as much as a Tory Brexiteer can remain neutral); the pound vs the euro exchange rate has played a big part here. For example, in May 2016 just before the referendum, £1 would buy you 1.31 euros. At today's exchange rate, £1 will buy you 1.17 euros.
Putting that into some raw figures, lets say in 2016 a Golf GTI was 42,000 euro, that would have been £32,061. At today's exchange rate, assuming the GTI's price has remained the same as it was in 2016 (although it hasn't!); 42,000 euros will now cost you £35,764. So without allowing for inflation or any price increases by VAG, the GTI costs £3703 more today than it did just before the run on the pound after the referendum.
I expect the value of the pound will gradually climb again now the political situation is more stable and certain, but depending on future trade agreements, VWs may be subject to tariffs pushing the price back up again. I'm not going to get political or open up a debate about Brexit on here, but that's an economic reality in this particular scenario.
Inflation over the same period has been relatively low at around 2/3%. Wage rises vary wildly between public and private sectors and within specific industries. I'm incredibly fortunate to have an excellent employer in a profitable business where those profits have resulted in annual pay rises at 2 or 3 times the rate of inflation, but a fully loaded brand new GTI is still at the very upper limit of what I am prepared to spend on a car.
I've always wanted a GTI and my only regret is that I didn't buy one ten years ago so I'd now be on my third instead of my first. Sadly with the looks of the mk8 and the way things are heading with petrol, the mk 7.5 may well be my last. My next car in around 3-4 years time will either be something electric or I'll pay the balloon on the GTI PCP and just keep it another 3 or 4 years on top. Nine months in and I'm still loving every second so that option has a certain appeal. And I'm normally someone who's fed up with a car after about six months and looking on AutoTrader before it's even had its first service!
-
Matt how is the infotainment better on the Polo when it's the same unit used in both?
Sorry, I meant the virtual cockpit screen - the polo is on a newer version (V2) with higher resolution than the MK7.5s. It'll be a cert to be on a MK8.
-
Doesn't the Polo also miss out on sat nav and the winter pack as standard equipment?
Not sure but are the LED headlights the curve lighting type or just the standard 'static' type?
-
I don't fully buy the exchange rate argument. If the Pound rallied up to 1.5 Euros per pound and stayed there, when do you think we'd see VW drop those prices? 3 months, 6 months, a year? Try never.
VW will sell for what they can get away with in the market they trade in. In some markets, metallic paint is free. The US is getting Wolfsburg built Golf Rs (most of the other Holfs are built in Mexico) for about $41k (£32k), including leather, free metallic paint, and DSG option is $1100 (£850). There are a whole host of pay for options in the UK that are standard fit there - DCC, lane assist, premium Fender audio, HBA.
After the great scrappage scheme of 2008 or 2009 and VAT dropping from 17.5% to 15%, pretty much every car RRP went up £2000-£3000 to take advantage. When VAT went up to 20%, did anyone reduce their pretax prices? Nope.
Most people have had pay growth over the last 10 years of less than 20% and in the same time period, the lowest denominator Golf GTI's RRP has gone up 50%. Does that add up? Same story for wage growth across much of the Eurozone, unaffected by exchange rate.
Accessible discounts/deposit contributions are more accessible, so maybe that bullsh!t RRP infkation you see in the supermarket and furniture shops with items permanently on sale (that Oak Furnitureland £800 sideboard has always been on sale for £350) has fully filtered through to the UK new car market?
New car PCPs are seriously expensive now in relation to income.
-
Doesn't the Polo also miss out on sat nav and the winter pack as standard equipment?
Not sure but are the LED headlights the curve lighting type or just the standard 'static' type?
Yep, no Satnav or Winter pack, but it does gain selectable suspension (2 stage DCC rather than constantly adjusting), LEDs are static. I have Nav on my Polo as it was an allocation grab for a scheduled build, to dodge a long wait. I have used it 3 times in 21 months.
So a smidge more kit, marginally bigger, effectively running a £500 remap (Polo runs same turbo and EA888 3b engine), bigger wheels as standard (although 18" Brescia are a cheap option), multilink rear suspension, marginally better door cards and slightly bigger front brake disks for an extra £10k or an extra 43% (GTI Performance). Residuals on the Polo GTI slightly better too.
Not saying the Polo is better, it isn't, but 43% more money does not buy you 43% more car. The Polo looks far better value for money than a Golf GTI which is rapidly moving out of Average Joe's price range.
-
The Polo looks far better value for money than a Golf GTI which is rapidly moving out of Average Joe's price range.
And IMO, visually the Polo looks far better than the forthcoming mk8 Golf too.
Who knows what VW will do to the Polo when the time comes for a mid life facelift though - hopefully they won’t turn it into a fugly mini mk8 Golf and replace ‘the easy to use on the move’ buttons, switches and knobs for heating/ventilation, lighting and other often used functions with touch pads and touchscreens!
-
I've always wanted a GTI and my only regret is that I didn't buy one ten years ago so I'd now be on my third instead of my first. Sadly with the looks of the mk8 and the way things are heading with petrol, the mk 7.5 may well be my last. My next car in around 3-4 years time will either be something electric or I'll pay the balloon on the GTI PCP and just keep it another 3 or 4 years on top. Nine months in and I'm still loving every second so that option has a certain appeal. And I'm normally someone who's fed up with a car after about six months and looking on AutoTrader before it's even had its first service!
The above is so me - I have not even got mine yet - hope I feel the same once it arrives
-
I don't fully buy the exchange rate argument. If the Pound rallied up to 1.5 Euros per pound and stayed there, when do you think we'd see VW drop those prices? 3 months, 6 months, a year? Try never.
VW will sell for what they can get away with in the market they trade in. In some markets, metallic paint is free. The US is getting Wolfsburg built Golf Rs (most of the other Holfs are built in Mexico) for about $41k (£32k), including leather, free metallic paint, and DSG option is $1100 (£850). There are a whole host of pay for options in the UK that are standard fit there - DCC, lane assist, premium Fender audio, HBA.
After the great scrappage scheme of 2008 or 2009 and VAT dropping from 17.5% to 15%, pretty much every car RRP went up £2000-£3000 to take advantage. When VAT went up to 20%, did anyone reduce their pretax prices? Nope.
Most people have had pay growth over the last 10 years of less than 20% and in the same time period, the lowest denominator Golf GTI's RRP has gone up 50%. Does that add up? Same story for wage growth across much of the Eurozone, unaffected by exchange rate.
Accessible discounts/deposit contributions are more accessible, so maybe that bullsh!t RRP infkation you see in the supermarket and furniture shops with items permanently on sale (that Oak Furnitureland £800 sideboard has always been on sale for £350) has fully filtered through to the UK new car market?
New car PCPs are seriously expensive now in relation to income.
I don't fully buy into the whole exchange rate thing either. Worth remembering that both VW UK and dealer overheads and profit, road tax and other on the road costs aren't subject to the exchange rate either.
-
Mutley75 - I've always wanted a GTI and my only regret is that I didn't buy one ten years ago so I'd now be on my third instead of my first. Sadly with the looks of the mk8 and the way things are heading with petrol, the mk 7.5 may well be my last. My next car in around 3-4 years time will either be something electric or I'll pay the balloon on the GTI PCP and just keep it another 3 or 4 years on top. Nine months in and I'm still loving every second so that option has a certain appeal. And I'm normally someone who's fed up with a car after about six months and looking on AutoTrader before it's even had its first service!
The above is so me - I have not even got mine yet - hope I feel the same once it arrives
[/quote]
-
Doesn't the Polo also miss out on sat nav and the winter pack as standard equipment?
Not sure but are the LED headlights the curve lighting type or just the standard 'static' type?
Yep, no Satnav or Winter pack, but it does gain selectable suspension (2 stage DCC rather than constantly adjusting), LEDs are static. I have Nav on my Polo as it was an allocation grab for a scheduled build, to dodge a long wait. I have used it 3 times in 21 months.
So a smidge more kit, marginally bigger, effectively running a £500 remap (Polo runs same turbo and EA888 3b engine), bigger wheels as standard (although 18" Brescia are a cheap option), multilink rear suspension, marginally better door cards and slightly bigger front brake disks for an extra £10k or an extra 43% (GTI Performance). Residuals on the Polo GTI slightly better too.
Not saying the Polo is better, it isn't, but 43% more money does not buy you 43% more car. The Polo looks far better value for money than a Golf GTI which is rapidly moving out of Average Joe's price range.
Agree with most of that, although some of the extra cost can be offset by the bigger deposit contribution and usually bigger discount on the Golf. That said though, the difference is still hard to justify if you don't genuinely need the extra space and equipment.
-
Its funny, I've tried over the years at looking at the next size down car to the one I initially want and never found there to be much value in doing that - well not in either leasing or PCP anyway.
All I seemed to end up with was less car for the money...
-
Technically, the Golf GTI is far from dead!
Can't quite understand the huge price hike on UP! GTI for what appears to be nothing extra.
-
Its funny, I've tried over the years at looking at the next size down car to the one I initially want and never found there to be much value in doing that - well not in either leasing or PCP anyway.
All I seemed to end up with was less car for the money...
The car manufacturers realise that downsizing is appealing to a lot of people now. Those smaller cars are now coming with the kind of standard kit that.the bigger cars used to get.
Cars are getting bigger and bigger now. The new Polo is significantly bigger than the last one, I don't consider it a small car any more. With the front seat set up comfortably for me, there is just 10mm less legroom behind me in the Polo than my Golf R.
Coming from an R, I really don't feel I'm compromising in the Polo. I do appreciate the savings though. I bought both Polos outright, they have a GFV of £11500 after 3 years, so I have expectations of £13k in private sale and £15-16k sticker price at the dealership. I only need to put £225 a month away to cover the depreciation on each one if I want shot after 3 years.
-
Technically, the Golf GTI is far from dead!
Can't quite understand the huge price hike on UP! GTI for what appears to be nothing extra.
Technically the Golf GTI is very dead! :grin:
Closed for new orders and no mk8 yet. That’s pretty flatlined!
It was just a jokey thread that I thought might get a couple shocked replies to on the up! price increase rather than drag into a nice and almost sensible debate.
Its funny, I've tried over the years at looking at the next size down car to the one I initially want and never found there to be much value in doing that - well not in either leasing or PCP anyway.
All I seemed to end up with was less car for the money...
If someone is in the very fortunate position of being a cash buyer or has large equity in their part-ex plus low interest bank loan to top up the price differential then it’s questionable whether buying slightly used versus discounted new is better, but buying that way has a more rigid ceiling as to what the purchaser can afford.
With a PCP, depending on deals and promotions it’s literally deposit and monthlies which can make a more expensive car with low depreciation just as affordable as a smaller cheaper car with average depreciation.
Same for leasing and the reason the R deals were so fantastic five years ago (god that time went quickly!) off the back of the minimal assumed depreciation VW based their calculations on using the mk6 R as its reference.
-
Monkey, I've already downsized back in 2014 - my first Mk7 was the smallest car I'd driven in 20 years - i used to drive Mondeo's etc.
The financial aspect though does interest me, the Golf sized cars are getting VERY expensive if you want some toys.
Two questions though:
1) Does the Polo GTI have ACC?
2) Do you find you are bullied on the road with a smaller car? Driving the wife and kids cars I do find that happens...
-
Do you find you are bullied on the road with a smaller car? Driving the wife and kids cars I do find that happens...
You want to try driving a 1.0L Lupo to experience bullying, it's horrendous :cry:
-
With a PCP, depending on deals and promotions it’s literally deposit and monthlies which can make a more expensive car with low depreciation just as affordable as a smaller cheaper car with average depreciation.
Same for leasing and the reason the R deals were so fantastic five years ago (god that time went quickly!) off the back of the minimal assumed depreciation VW based their calculations on using the mk6 R as its reference.
The GFV on PCP is a marketing tool as much as the list price, deposit contributions or interest rates. I've seen dealers on other forums discuss this (about BMW!). It has little bearing on the actual residual value of the car in most cases. One guy talked about how those three things vary, depending on the time of year. One minute its less interest, next its more deposit contribution or less GFV. Probably its actually working out net the same, just trying to attract you with an "offer".
And yes, my two Mk7's were on paper higher value cars than I would have chosen normally but the way PCP works, I paid less than I would for say an equivalent Skoda.
I could buy a car outright, chuck the equivalent monthly payments back into a savings account but even the fact that I'd be ditching any interest on the loan, my problem is the risk element. I definitely want rid of it after 3 years, but with PCP I know what that figure is at that point - if I sell it myself, the risk that I have got that GFV figure right for myself is on me.
Particularly right now, how do I know that a juicy petrol burner is going to have any particular value from now? (given the current world of electrification, rising VED and bans from urban areas we will see coming) Obviously VWFS have a figure in mind, but if they get that number wrong its not my problem. If I get it wrong and its 3 grand different, that will have made that car very expensive for me to have owned for 3 years and I won't know that until 3 years time.
That's why PCP/PCH is attractive - you know how much it costs for 3 years and for each month.
-
This last post pretty much defines why I went the PCP route this time instead of cash purchase.
By taking the equity from the sale of my Mk7 and sticking it in a savings account I earn around 1% pa interest. The PCP is 3.9% so net cost is 2.9% which is about the best bank loan rate I can get.
I know all the PCP calculations involve greater complexity but I’m a simple soul.
In view of a somewhat uncertain future for performance cars I decided to go for PCP at it de-risked so many factors.
Given how quickly the public mood changes these days, I reluctantly felt PCP was the right route this time.
-
As the 3 door Golf GTi is no more and has been for some months, I’d any body else putting the Yaris GR-4 on their shopping list?
-
That thing sounds fully mental, be interesting to see how it's priced
-
Monkey, I've already downsized back in 2014 - my first Mk7 was the smallest car I'd driven in 20 years - i used to drive Mondeo's etc.
The financial aspect though does interest me, the Golf sized cars are getting VERY expensive if you want some toys.
Two questions though:
1) Does the Polo GTI have ACC?
2) Do you find you are bullied on the road with a smaller car? Driving the wife and kids cars I do find that happens...
Fred: Yes, the Polo GTI+ has ACC, the behind the badge variant that the 7.5 Golf gets. Same flat bottomed steering wheel, manual aircon (unless you pay £450 for dual zone - didn't feel the need to spec with my own money!), auto wipers, auto lights, auto dimming rear view mirror, keyless, folding wing mirrors, a manual handbrake (for impressing the girls at the Halfords/McDonalds car park with your handbrake turns? :grin:), front and rear parking sensors, the latest composition media system, a newer variant of the virtual cockpit, 17" Parkers (the £350 18" Brescia option was an easy spend - so much better looking), 2 stage "suspension select" with Normal and Sport damper settings, red calipers (like the Golf GTI), LED headlights and rear clusters (although puzzlingly, VW put rear indicators on normal bulbs?!?), ambient interior lighting Sports seats just like the Golf's, although they look a bit better (like MK6 GTI) IMO. I'm sure there are a few other things I've forgotten - well equipped.
I don't get bullied on the road any more than a Golf will, having an Audi A4 2.0TDI 3 feet off the back end of it.
When newly out, I kept getting asked if it was the new shape Golf GTI.
-
There is an article in autocar this month, part of the price rise might be to cover the CO2 fine (£1800 per car) because its over 95grammes.
-
The Yaris GR-4 does sound like it'll be crazy fast, but if it drives like a Honda Civic Type-R, but costs as much as a Type R (as all the press think it will - seems like it will be a very low volume car with lots of unique stuff like aluminium doors and bonnet/boot, carbon fibre roof), why wouldn't you buy the Type R?
Hopefully it'll be good enough to be a heart overhead decision like the (then) relatively expensive Lupo GTI was.
It should be pretty good on the fuel economy stakes (relative to output).
The current Yaris GRMN is a bit of a damp squib in supermini hot hatch group testing - lots of peak power, but bugger all torque. The GR4 sounds like it will be a completely different beast.
-
There is an article in autocar this month, part of the price rise might be to cover the CO2 fine (£1800 per car) because its over 95grammes.
Think you're right, just read the article.
I hadn't really thought about the co2 company targets , I can see a lot of nice cars being axed.
-
I was reading a thing the other day showing where the manufacturers were vs the 2021 target and pretty much all of them are on course for epic fine levels but there are a few other little tricks they can play to get the fines down... And they will use them.
-
I was reading a thing the other day showing where the manufacturers were vs the 2021 target and pretty much all of them are on course for epic fine levels but there are a few other little tricks they can play to get the fines down... And they will use them.
The easiest way to achieve it (without officially cheating) would be via hybridisation, where that electric input is taking a sizeable load off the engine during the WLTP cycle. If it's a proper sh!t or bust situation (meet 99g CO2/Km or be fined an arbitrary amount, no matter how much you miss the target by), there's no incentive to improve where you can if you can't meet that target.
The Polo GTI+ is 138g CO2/Km, with the 6 speed DSG. I wonder how much they could've bettered it by with the 7 speed unit (5-10%?). Yet stick an electric motor on that can assist the car for 1/3 of its WLTP cycle needs via a plug in charge and it would be under 100g CO2/Km - with no consideration to how the electricity was generated. Still seems like cheating to me.
Or they could look into cutting the weight of cars by quite a margin by making better use of composites and Aluminium - i'm sure the additional cost of the Aluminium over Steel could be less than £1800 per average car. Audi used to sell the S3 for coppers more than the R, despite it having Aluminium doors and a few other bits, saving about 60Kg per car.
Or they could just load it onto the cost to the consumer. :whistle:
I hope that this fine money will actually be used to improve the environment (Carbon saving initiatives) or the EV charging infrastructure rather than just going into the EU's or Government's back pocket.
We'll all be pissing into the wind with these initiatives if the US don't give up their V8 tanks and cars become cheap enough for the average Indian or Chinese household.
-
The fine isn't per offending car, it's the average emissions across the manufacturer (group) sales in a calendar year and then 95 euros per gramme over 95g multiplied by the number of vehicles sold.
The figure I saw for kia based on 2019 will be enough to basically not make them want to sell vehicles in Europe in 2021....
There are going to be some serious changes to offerings...
-
The fine isn't per offending car, it's the average emissions across the manufacturer (group) sales in a calendar year and then 95 euros per gramme over 95g multiplied by the number of vehicles sold.
The figure I saw for kia based on 2019 will be enough to basically not make them want to sell vehicles in Europe in 2021....
There are going to be some serious changes to offerings...
Well that does seem a little closer to achievable. If there's that loophole for lower output (number of cars) manufacturers, will they not just hive off their performance divisions to create some other brand with lower volumes? /maybe VAG is experimenting with this already by disassociating Cupra division from Seat? You buy a Cupra now, not a Seat Cupra, even though we all know it's a Seat, built by Seat, using Seat parts in a Seat factory.
Or performance model are going to have a very low allocation across the fleet to minimise impact to overall fleet where 90% of them are 1.0 95ps units putting out maybe 90g CO2/Km each.
-
Yes they will feather their juicy models rather than eliminate them.
Which if you think about it, the rules are achieving their aim far better than just making the offending individual vehicles attract a massive charge.
I suspect we'll see some other gaming, probably making cheap fully electric cars en masse and storing them because for vag that's cheaper than the fine..
-
If there's that loophole for lower output (number of cars) manufacturers, will they not just hive off their performance divisions to create some other brand with lower volumes? /maybe VAG is experimenting with this already by disassociating Cupra division from Seat? You buy a Cupra now, not a Seat Cupra, even though we all know it's a Seat, built by Seat, using Seat parts in a Seat factory.
Or performance model are going to have a very low allocation across the fleet to minimise impact to overall fleet where 90% of them are 1.0 95ps units putting out maybe 90g CO2/Km each.
Good point that Matt, Cupra has already been set up as a separate arm so R GmbH could easily follow with the new branding all ready to go. Audi, Merc, BMW et al all have potential sub brands to follow suit.
Yes they will feather their juicy models rather than eliminate them.
Which if you think about it, the rules are achieving their aim far better than just making the offending individual vehicles attract a massive charge.
I suspect we'll see some other gaming, probably making cheap fully electric cars en masse and storing them because for vag that's cheaper than the fine..
Fleets of electric up!’s, Citigos, Miis could fill that role easily. They’re old models so development costs all long since absorbed. Offloading loads of them to dealers all over the world as courtesy cars, sponsoring government departments and inner city transport schemes and maybe even charities by supplying them in large numbers (probably recouping many costs somehow by tax incentives).
All doable and preferable to massive fines, with the cars eventually sold off through the usual networks onto the second hand market where sooner or later cheap electric basic commuter cars will be in big demand.
We should hire our forum services out as consultants, bet we’d be massively cheaper than whoever VW do actually use... :grin:
-
The Yaris GR-4 does sound like it'll be crazy fast, but if it drives like a Honda Civic Type-R, but costs as much as a Type R (as all the press think it will - seems like it will be a very low volume car with lots of unique stuff like aluminium doors and bonnet/boot, carbon fibre roof), why wouldn't you buy the Type R?
Hopefully it'll be good enough to be a heart overhead decision like the (then) relatively expensive Lupo GTI was.
It should be pretty good on the fuel economy stakes (relative to output).
The current Yaris GRMN is a bit of a damp squib in supermini hot hatch group testing - lots of peak power, but bugger all torque. The GR4 sounds like it will be a completely different beast.
This is going to be serious money
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-drive-2020-toyota-gr-yaris-prototype
-
The Yaris GR-4 does sound like it'll be crazy fast, but if it drives like a Honda Civic Type-R, but costs as much as a Type R (as all the press think it will - seems like it will be a very low volume car with lots of unique stuff like aluminium doors and bonnet/boot, carbon fibre roof), why wouldn't you buy the Type R?
Hopefully it'll be good enough to be a heart overhead decision like the (then) relatively expensive Lupo GTI was.
It should be pretty good on the fuel economy stakes (relative to output).
The current Yaris GRMN is a bit of a damp squib in supermini hot hatch group testing - lots of peak power, but bugger all torque. The GR4 sounds like it will be a completely different beast.
This is going to be serious money
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-drive-2020-toyota-gr-yaris-prototype
At the foot of the Autocar article, it quotes an estimated price of £30k.
-
If there's that loophole for lower output (number of cars) manufacturers, will they not just hive off their performance divisions to create some other brand with lower volumes?
Or the other way around, you can pool your emissions totals by going in with others - already being done. I can't remember which ones it is, but several thirsty monster brands have pooled with manufacturers who predominantly make small city cars...
Its not a problem for low volume supercar manufacturers though, if your vehicle output is really low you are exempt from the scheme.
This is all gaming the system, but its what goes on in everything. Its like tax avoidance vs tax evasion :D
-
If there's that loophole for lower output (number of cars) manufacturers, will they not just hive off their performance divisions to create some other brand with lower volumes?
Or the other way around, you can pool your emissions totals by going in with others - already being done. I can't remember which ones it is, but several thirsty monster brands have pooled with manufacturers who predominantly make small city cars...
Its not a problem for low volume supercar manufacturers though, if your vehicle output is really low you are exempt from the scheme.
This is all gaming the system, but its what goes on in everything. Its like tax avoidance vs tax evasion :D
Fiat Chrysler is pooling with Tesla to meet EU emissions targets.