The Golf GTI is now dead, but...

[monkeyhanger]

Monkey, I've already downsized back in 2014 - my first Mk7 was the smallest car I'd driven in 20 years - i used to drive Mondeo's etc.

The financial aspect though does interest me, the Golf sized cars are getting VERY expensive if you want some toys.

Two questions though:

1) Does the Polo GTI have ACC?
2) Do you find you are bullied on the road with a smaller car? Driving the wife and kids cars I do find that happens...

Fred: Yes, the Polo GTI+ has ACC, the behind the badge variant that the 7.5 Golf gets. Same flat bottomed steering wheel, manual aircon (unless you pay £450 for dual zone - didn't feel the need to spec with my own money!), auto wipers, auto lights, auto dimming rear view mirror, keyless, folding wing mirrors, a manual handbrake (for impressing the girls at the Halfords/McDonalds car park with your handbrake turns?  ), front and rear parking sensors, the latest composition media system, a newer variant of the virtual cockpit, 17" Parkers (the £350 18" Brescia option was an easy spend - so much better looking), 2 stage "suspension select" with Normal and Sport damper settings, red calipers (like the Golf GTI), LED headlights and rear clusters (although puzzlingly, VW put rear indicators on normal bulbs?!?), ambient interior lighting Sports seats just like the Golf's, although they look a bit better (like MK6 GTI) IMO. I'm sure there are a few other things I've forgotten - well equipped.

I don't get bullied on the road any more than a Golf will, having an Audi A4 2.0TDI 3 feet off the back end of it.

When newly out, I kept getting asked if it was the new shape Golf GTI.

[david25]

There is an article in autocar this month, part of the price rise might be to cover the CO2 fine (£1800 per car) because its over 95grammes.

[monkeyhanger]

The Yaris GR-4 does sound like it'll be crazy fast, but if it drives like a Honda Civic Type-R, but costs as much as a Type R (as all the press think it will - seems like it will be a very low volume car with lots of unique stuff like aluminium doors and bonnet/boot, carbon fibre roof), why wouldn't you buy the Type R?

Hopefully it'll be good enough to be a heart overhead decision like the (then) relatively expensive Lupo GTI was.

It should be pretty good on the fuel economy stakes (relative to output).

The current Yaris GRMN is a bit of a damp squib in supermini hot hatch group testing - lots of peak power, but bugger all torque. The GR4 sounds like it will be a completely different beast.

[Grahamt]

There is an article in autocar this month, part of the price rise might be to cover the CO2 fine (£1800 per car) because its over 95grammes.

Think you're right,  just read the article.

I hadn't really thought about the co2 company targets , I can see a lot of nice cars being axed.

[fredgroves]

I was reading a thing the other day showing where the manufacturers were vs the 2021 target and pretty much all of them are on course for epic fine levels but there are a few other little tricks they can play to get the fines down... And they will use them.

[monkeyhanger]

I was reading a thing the other day showing where the manufacturers were vs the 2021 target and pretty much all of them are on course for epic fine levels but there are a few other little tricks they can play to get the fines down... And they will use them.

The easiest way to achieve it (without officially cheating) would be via hybridisation, where that electric input is taking a sizeable load off the engine during the WLTP cycle. If it's a proper sh!t or bust situation (meet 99g CO2/Km or be fined an arbitrary amount, no matter how much you miss the target by), there's no incentive to improve where you can if you can't meet that target.

The Polo GTI+ is 138g CO2/Km, with the 6 speed DSG. I wonder how much they could've bettered it by with the 7 speed unit (5-10%?). Yet stick an electric motor on that can assist the car for 1/3 of its WLTP cycle needs via a plug in charge and it would be under 100g CO2/Km - with no consideration to how the electricity was generated. Still seems like cheating to me.

Or they could look into cutting the weight of cars by quite a margin by making better use of composites and Aluminium - i'm sure the additional cost of the Aluminium over Steel could be less than £1800 per average car. Audi used to sell the S3 for coppers more than the R, despite it having Aluminium doors and a few other bits, saving about 60Kg per car.

Or they could just load it onto the cost to the consumer. 

I hope that this fine money will actually be used to improve the environment (Carbon saving initiatives) or the EV charging infrastructure rather than just going into the EU's or Government's back pocket.

We'll all be pissing into the wind with these initiatives if the US don't give up their V8 tanks and cars become cheap enough for the average Indian or Chinese household.

[fredgroves]

The fine isn't per offending car, it's the average emissions across the manufacturer (group) sales in a calendar year and then 95 euros per gramme over 95g multiplied by the number of vehicles sold.

The figure I saw for kia based on 2019 will be enough to basically not make them want to sell vehicles in Europe in 2021....

There are going to be some serious changes to offerings...

[monkeyhanger]

The fine isn't per offending car, it's the average emissions across the manufacturer (group) sales in a calendar year and then 95 euros per gramme over 95g multiplied by the number of vehicles sold.

The figure I saw for kia based on 2019 will be enough to basically not make them want to sell vehicles in Europe in 2021....

There are going to be some serious changes to offerings...

Well that does seem a little closer to achievable. If there's that loophole for lower output (number of cars) manufacturers, will they not just hive off their performance divisions to create some other brand with lower volumes? /maybe VAG is experimenting with this already by disassociating Cupra division from Seat? You buy a Cupra now, not a Seat Cupra, even though we all know it's a Seat, built by Seat, using Seat parts in a Seat factory.

Or performance model are going to have a very low allocation across the fleet to minimise impact to overall fleet where 90% of them are 1.0 95ps units putting out maybe 90g CO2/Km each.

[fredgroves]

Yes they will feather their juicy models rather than eliminate them.
Which if you think about it, the rules are achieving their aim far better than just making the offending individual vehicles attract a massive charge.

 I suspect we'll see some other gaming, probably making cheap fully electric cars en masse and storing them because for vag that's cheaper than the fine.. 

[Exonian]

If there's that loophole for lower output (number of cars) manufacturers, will they not just hive off their performance divisions to create some other brand with lower volumes? /maybe VAG is experimenting with this already by disassociating Cupra division from Seat? You buy a Cupra now, not a Seat Cupra, even though we all know it's a Seat, built by Seat, using Seat parts in a Seat factory.

Or performance model are going to have a very low allocation across the fleet to minimise impact to overall fleet where 90% of them are 1.0 95ps units putting out maybe 90g CO2/Km each.

Good point that Matt, Cupra has already been set up as a separate arm so R GmbH could easily follow with the new branding all ready to go. Audi, Merc, BMW et al all have potential sub brands to follow suit.

Yes they will feather their juicy models rather than eliminate them.
Which if you think about it, the rules are achieving their aim far better than just making the offending individual vehicles attract a massive charge.

 I suspect we'll see some other gaming, probably making cheap fully electric cars en masse and storing them because for vag that's cheaper than the fine.. 

Fleets of electric up!’s, Citigos, Miis could fill that role easily. They’re old models so development costs all long since absorbed. Offloading loads of them to dealers all over the world as courtesy cars, sponsoring government departments and inner city transport schemes and maybe even charities by supplying them in large numbers (probably recouping many costs somehow by tax incentives).
All doable and preferable to massive fines, with the cars eventually sold off through the usual networks onto the second hand market where sooner or later cheap electric basic commuter cars will be in big demand.


We should hire our forum services out as consultants, bet we’d be massively cheaper than whoever VW do actually use...