GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: physio on 29 October 2017, 22:57
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I am about to order new GTi for March delivery , can’t decide if it’s worth me going for
standard GTi or GTi pp
Gone way past the days of driving 100% flat out ( get my pension nxt year 😳)
Current choice is
Tornado red , 5 door , dsg , art velour trim , dynaudio , rear camera , keyless , dynamic lights
I do about 6000 miles per year
Any logical reason for me to go for GTi pp ?
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I am about to order new GTi for March delivery , can’t decide if it’s worth me going for
standard GTi or GTi pp
Gone way past the days of driving 100% flat out ( get my pension nxt year 😳)
Current choice is
Tornado red , 5 door , dsg , art velour trim , dynaudio , rear camera , keyless , dynamic lights
I do about 6000 miles per year
Any logical reason for me to go for GTi pp ?
No the question is there any logical reason not to get it :smiley:
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I am about to order new GTi for March delivery , can’t decide if it’s worth me going for
standard GTi or GTi pp
Gone way past the days of driving 100% flat out ( get my pension nxt year 😳)
Current choice is
Tornado red , 5 door , dsg , art velour trim , dynaudio , rear camera , keyless , dynamic lights
I do about 6000 miles per year
Any logical reason for me to go for GTi pp ?
Friend, I've been in receipt of a state pension for 5 years and recently purchased an R.
And only do similar mileage, the best car and choice I've made.
Why not treat yourself, life's too short. Then I'm still a boy racer and maybe you're more 'mature' In which case always wonder just how good an R Is when you rate the GTI so highly
Think your best choice is a GTI over pp. It will do more than you need.
PS Add the pan roof, it adds another dimension and looks good to :wink:
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The PP diff is very subtle but definitely effective.
The PP brakes are pretty good too.
I specced PP once and I’d do it again.
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Go to dealer A & get a test drive of a standard GTI.
Go to dealer A or B and get a test drive of a PP GTI, making sure you find some decent bends/tight bends/roundabouts while using a more than you might expect amount of throttle.
Make allowances for the ropey std tyres (assuming Bridgestones are still the std fit).
Ignore own age :wink:
Decide if grand or so extra cost is worth it. Job done.
Personally I wouldn't have contemplated a non-PP GTI, but everyone's MMV.
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I’m going standard GTI and do drive fairly briskly at times but really can’t see the need or use for PP but each to their own.
Reading your spec the one thing I would change is the velour trim. It’s hottible to my eyes, the standard cloth or splash out on the luxurious leather would be the options I would consider.
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Keep the standard seats as it's not luxurious leather but pleather. PP all the way, it's all the car you'll need and don't bother with the Pano roof it'll only creak.
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PP will probably be easier to sell on when you finally decide to see out your retirement in a Honda CRV. :grin:
Plus you'll probably get back most of the extra £1K.
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IMHO PP vs non-PP is something unquantifiable with the available data - much like DCC.
If you choose another colour, you can see the difference, if you choose a panno roof, you can see the difference, etc etc
The PP and DCC are performance enhancing tech, but what do they actually give?
With the PP, you get more power, which is only a little, which offsets the extra weight gained from the diff. You get bigger brakes, but is it offset by the extra weight of the diff and the brakes themselves? What's the stopping distances compared?
I'd really like to see some actual driving performance hard data to make the choice.
Same with DCC, where are the numbers that show it makes any difference? We all know that the dynamic nature of DCC means that different settings make no difference to lap times, but show me the same for non-DCC.
I sometimes feel like PP and DCC are more about bragging rights than actual real world usability.
For 1k you could probably do a much better third party brake upgrade and tuning box, which gives you more than PP.
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IMHO PP vs non-PP is something unquantifiable with the available data - much like DCC.
If you choose another colour, you can see the difference, if you choose a panno roof, you can see the difference, etc etc
The PP and DCC are performance enhancing tech, but what do they actually give?
With the PP, you get more power, which is only a little, which offsets the extra weight gained from the diff. You get bigger brakes, but is it offset by the extra weight of the diff and the brakes themselves? What's the stopping distances compared?
I'd really like to see some actual driving performance hard data to make the choice.
Same with DCC, where are the numbers that show it makes any difference? We all know that the dynamic nature of DCC means that different settings make no difference to lap times, but show me the same for non-DCC.
I sometimes feel like PP and DCC are more about bragging rights than actual real world usability.
For 1k you could probably do a much better third party brake upgrade and tuning box, which gives you more than PP.
Sorry I can't follow what you're saying about unquantifiable items and not being able to see what you get if you spec PP and DCC? A PP car is proven to be faster than a non-PP one (if it is the lap times you are wondering about) but more importantly a far more pleasant experience when driven hard. It only takes a test in both cars to realize the difference. They are both (PP and DCC) very much felt and appreciated and especially the PP is a must imo if you are buying the car with the intention of really "driving" it from time to time. The GTI should come with it as standard.
Having done the switch from a FWD car of 230bhp with just the XDS to the VAQ equipped Clubsport I can attest to the diff's performance and benefits over a car that lacks it. GTI power does not seem that worrying but it is its healthy torque that will prevent you from gripping to the road during hard cornering. The VAQ eliminates any such issues as well as a big part of the horrible understeer that comes standard on powerful FWD's, you can apply throttle much earlier and the car just keeps to its track and accelerates out of the corner without problems, no gimmicks here. The bigger brakes are another bonus, plenty of owners on the other side of the Atlantic that have done the switch and confirm the improved performance over stock ones, on the road and track. It's not that it is a massive big brake kit either to actually have to worry about the extra weight.
DCC could be more subjective as not everybody needs a car to be multi-dimensional but given how well it works I would go for it every time, it's just a matter of being able to enjoy more. I want to have as much a comfortable car as I can when I am cruising, my passengers don't need to be aware (or even care at all) that they are in a performance car but at the same time I can enjoy a tight, responsive chassis when I want to push without having thoughts about upgrading my suspension and envying more focused cars. Best of both worlds really for a daily car that you also want to enjoy every now and then.
PS. A PP vs non-PP comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jVPZUXOYM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jVPZUXOYM) 1.6 sec faster in such a short track is a lot and it means the PP upgrades are working pretty well.
PS.2 Also note that the diff has been recently discovered to have an even harder traction setting (accessible via OBD software) and it takes it one level further in terms of how good you can corner - Tested and confirmed on mine as well.
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If it's a cost thing, I would personally drop those pointless options like dynaudio and art velours trim, and spec the PP in their place, as PP cars are more desirable second hand when you come to sell.
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I'd not seen that comparison video before. Its interesting but I'd want to see that test done in manual vs manual because he's complaining about the dsg shift points, which probably could account for 1.6 seconds :)
I think you're a quite committed trackster, so probably your opinion on the value of the LSD is a good one worth listening to.
If you don't intend to track it though...
I know if it was me spec'ing the car though I'd be like....ooooh, ahhh, thousand quid... oooh..... oh go on, wtf. Which I think is how VW make another grand :D And I'd probably never see the benefit at all, other than telling my mates about the fantastic LSD.
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I'd not seen that comparison video before. Its interesting but I'd want to see that test done in manual vs manual because he's complaining about the dsg shift points, which probably could account for 1.6 seconds :)
I think you're a quite committed trackster, so probably your opinion on the value of the LSD is a good one worth listening to.
If you don't intend to track it though...
I know if it was me spec'ing the car though I'd be like....ooooh, ahhh, thousand quid... oooh..... oh go on, wtf. Which I think is how VW make another grand :D And I'd probably never see the benefit at all, other than telling my mates about the fantastic LSD.
I doubt there would be any time gains with a manual, the opposite seems more probable as the DSG shifts faster and smoother than any human driver can. It's not about the time, it's the allegedly reduced involvement feeling and some particularities of the down-shifts that people (including the guy in the video) are usually complaining about. For me at least being no pro, the DSG in manual mode works wonders on the track as I can grab the wheel better and focus more on my lines. There is also the thing that it doesn't upset the dynamics of the car half as much as a manual which I find beneficial, less load transfer, less stuff to worry about. Just my 2p.
With the diff sure you probably won't notice if you are just driving around town and religiously stick to the limits. But you don't need a track to exploit it either. A bit of open space with bends and it really comes into its own.
I totally get the "what I can leave out from the options list" point but retrospectively, I have quite a few items that I would now feel happy leaving out of my next car and they more than make up for the cost of the PP which I consider essential if you are to fully exploit the car as a driving machine.
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Tornado red , 5 door , dsg , art velour trim , dynaudio , rear camera , keyless , dynamic lights
I do about 6000 miles per year
Any logical reason for me to go for GTi pp ?
The GTI Performance has an extra 15hp and 20nm of torque. This is not really going to be noticeable and just offsets the additional weight. So the power-to-weight ratio of the cars is roughly the same.
The brakes are upgraded and AFAIK are the same as the standard Golf R brakes. I do think this does make a difference. I'm not comparing like with like, but in my old car and our A3, I sometimes found the cars required extra pressure applied to stop exactly where I wanted. The GTI Performance brakes don't seem to require this extra modulation. They are very nice brakes to use.
The GTI Performance has red badges front and rear and because of the larger brake callipers there is room to print GTI on them. This is purely cosmetic.
Last, but definitely not least is the VAQ electronically controlled mechanical limited slip differential. Sometimes referred to as the VAQ diff or eLSD. It is early days for me, but I have already noticed how the traction and yaw dampening effect make the front of the car seem so planted when accelerating and/or cornering. It is a lot less twitchy than my last car.
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I think this really boils down to 'want' over 'need'. I wanted it so that was easy, but have I ever benefitted from it? Driving wise almost certainly not but everytime I see the GTI logo on the brakes, money very well spent :smiley:
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I think this really boils down to 'want' over 'need'. I wanted it so that was easy, but have I ever benefitted from it? Driving wise almost certainly not but everytime I see the GTI logo on the brakes, money very well spent :smiley:
The GTI is a 'want' not a 'need'. Nobody needs 230-245 bhp for normal everyday driving :wink:
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I think this really boils down to 'want' over 'need'. I wanted it so that was easy, but have I ever benefitted from it? Driving wise almost certainly not but everytime I see the GTI logo on the brakes, money very well spent :smiley:
The GTI is a 'want' not a 'need'. Nobody needs 230-245 bhp for normal everyday driving :wink:
Indeed, and I wanted it. :laugh:
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I think this really boils down to 'want' over 'need'. I wanted it so that was easy, but have I ever benefitted from it? Driving wise almost certainly not but everytime I see the GTI logo on the brakes, money very well spent :smiley:
Oh and the red stripe across the front bumper no?? :tongue:
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I think this really boils down to 'want' over 'need'. I wanted it so that was easy, but have I ever benefitted from it? Driving wise almost certainly not but everytime I see the GTI logo on the brakes, money very well spent :smiley:
Oh and the red stripe across the front bumper no?? :tongue:
And the wheels despite the extra effort in cleaning :smiley:
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PP is worth it alone if you are going standard wheels with the Bridgestones on. I've done nearly 10k miles in mine and not once have I scrabbled for grip or thought the tyres needed binning. Having the PP might explain why and before anyone says anything I don't drive like miss daisy.
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You can scrabble for grip in a straight line on BS's, LSD does nothing for wheel hop :)
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I haven't had that either :grin:
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I wonder if there really was a Miss Daisy who drove very slowly and very carefully.... :whistle:
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They made a film about driving her :grin: :grin:
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I wonder if there really was a Miss Daisy who drove very slowly and very carefully.... :whistle:
The film was called Driving Miss Daisy staring Morgan Freeman.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTI2Njg4MDM5MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMDk4NjM5._V1_UX182_CR0,0,182,268_AL_.jpg)
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I wonder if there really was a Miss Daisy who drove very slowly and very carefully.... :whistle:
The film was called Driving Miss Daisy staring Morgan Freeman.
And IIRC Miss Daisy was driven (by her chauffeur Hoke Colburn, played by Morgan Freeman); she didn’t do the driving. I think the chauffeur drove quite slowly though.
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Decided to add PP to my list , deleting the art velour trim , just looking at other options
What I want against what I need .
Guaranteed 15% so it’s easy to get carried away
Got till Friday to decide my salesman is away on the dealer T roc launch
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I'd also suggest that you at least consider deleting keyless... Read the thread about keyless thefts
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I'd also suggest that you at least consider deleting keyless... Read the thread about keyless thefts
I read that and I’m seriously considering deleting it 👍
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Even ignoring power differences the PP is worth it just for the brakes. They look awesome and are awesome, same type as the R and the car is 100Kg lighter, so will stop even quicker (with the right tyres). Even from a safety viewpoint, I would choose it.
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Even ignoring power differences the PP is worth it just for the brakes. They look awesome and are awesome, same type as the R and the car is 100Kg lighter, so will stop even quicker (with the right tyres). Even from a safety viewpoint, I would choose it.
The reason I wanted the PP was because of the VAQ Diff. The brakes are a bonus.
Here is a video from Borg Warner about the eLSD. If you have 15 minutes watch 18:30 to 33:30 - https://vimeo.com/102644851
If you are having trouble sleeping try watching the whole video. I could not stay awake. :embarrassed:
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Here is a newish youtube video on the Mk7 GTI PP VAQ diff - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiUJLN5_le0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiUJLN5_le0)
Here is the old VW infomercial on the diff - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQqh2Tv5Puc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQqh2Tv5Puc)
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Nobody has mentioned the 7-speed versus six-speed box if you go for a PP with DSG!
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Even ignoring power differences the PP is worth it just for the brakes. They look awesome and are awesome, same type as the R and the car is 100Kg lighter, so will stop even quicker (with the right tyres). Even from a safety viewpoint, I would choose it.
The reason I wanted the PP was because of the VAQ Diff. The brakes are a bonus.
Here is a video from Borg Warner about the eLSD. If you have 15 minutes watch 18:30 to 33:30 - https://vimeo.com/102644851
If you are having trouble sleeping try watching the whole video. I could not stay awake. :embarrassed:
Thanks - looking into this and considering the brakes you actually get a lot of technology for the 1 grand increase in price. Does the R have this system between the wheels on each axle or is it just open diff? It is interesting that BW state the unit is filled for life, yet VW require a fluid change every 3 years.
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Been to dealers today placed order ready for early March delivery , going on private plate ,
So it’s up to them when they put order in
GTi PP DSG. 5 door , tornado red , rear view camera , dynaudio ,dynamic light traffic sign assist
Guaranteed price on my trade in
Now begins the countdown 😀
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Been to dealers today placed order ready for early March delivery , going on private plate ,
So it’s up to them when they put order in
GTi PP DSG. 5 door , tornado red , rear view camera , dynaudio ,dynamic light traffic sign assist
Guaranteed price on my trade in
Now begins the countdown 😀
Really nice spec :smiley:
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Even ignoring power differences the PP is worth it just for the brakes. They look awesome and are awesome, same type as the R and the car is 100Kg lighter, so will stop even quicker (with the right tyres). Even from a safety viewpoint, I would choose it.
The reason I wanted the PP was because of the VAQ Diff. The brakes are a bonus.
Here is a video from Borg Warner about the eLSD. If you have 15 minutes watch 18:30 to 33:30 - https://vimeo.com/102644851
If you are having trouble sleeping try watching the whole video. I could not stay awake. :embarrassed:
Thanks - looking into this and considering the brakes you actually get a lot of technology for the 1 grand increase in price. Does the R have this system between the wheels on each axle or is it just open diff? It is interesting that BW state the unit is filled for life, yet VW require a fluid change every 3 years.
In the GTI PP the Borg Warner FXD (Front axle cross differential) is a haldex type unit which is fitted on the UK drivers side front driveshaft after the existing open diff in the gearbox/diff case. It still relies on the existing XDS+ systems to get it out of situations as it has a preload & the TCR race cars which use this have a recommend preload of 50nm to 100nm. Servicing is buried way down in another part of the ERWIN workshop manual...oil change every 3yrs....
In the AWD "R" it is fitted on the prop shaft that fits between the front & rear axles..but in what is called the "final drive unit" which is where the prop shaft connects to the rear axle. The R still has an open front diff also.
The GTI PP, Clubsport, CCS, "R" & "R" performance all use the same 340mm size brake systems front & vented rear disc, same servos, same callipers etc...only difference is that the CCS & "R" performance use the 1kg lighter each two piece front discs & specific pads. ...Oh & colour of calipers & removable logo/name tag plate..