GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: mcmaddy on 22 December 2016, 10:26
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How many miles do people who run a new car in normally give it? 500 miles? 1000 miles? Or do people not run cars in any more?
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I was told that it is not needed with the current engines. Just ALWAYS wait till the oil reached 90° before going high in rpm.
I recently bought a new GTI CS and I just didn't use the launch control before it had 1000 KM...
(but don't use it now anymore, I really don't like the launch control on this 2 wheel drive car: the wheelspin is terrible and you just can feel that it's bad for the car).
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As an overall thing its best to ease any car into its first few hundred miles mainly for the brake pads,discs and tyres, which all need to bed in. But without babying it, just moderate driving across various gears and speeds when warmed up. 500 miles should do it, then relatively normal after that, but avoid red line (but that's a given for most people anyway).
Production engines don't really need to be run in these days.
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Thanks for the replies.
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Read varying responses and in the end decided to just go with how feel should treat the R and so at near 2 k I am now not applying my own limits and just driving naturally and to the conditions.
Though the caveat is that do let the engine oil get to at least 90 degree as mentioned above (have selected just 5 and most useful driving data so can cycle through them quite quickly. The performance gauges are nice to show to friends but in reality never use them)
The engine does feel 'looser' than the first 500 miles at least.
The GTD significantly loosened up as the miles crept on and would say that applied to at least 10 k
Must say that loving the R its best car personally driven, its a joy really.
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It says in the manual: 1000 km
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I don't have a rigid schedule, but just try to ensure that the engine doesn't slog, or over rev, for the first 1,000 miles. I start with a loose limit of around 3-4,000 rpm for the first 500 miles, with only part throttle opening, and then gradually increase the revs and throttle over the next 500, when the engine should be fit for anything. Not letting the engine revs drop is as important as over revving, though, so I keep it spinning at 2000 rpm plus. As said above, oil temperature is important, but I just start the engine and wait for the revs to drop back, before driving off, then take it easy for a mile, or so. I do this even with a fully run in engine.
I know the official line is that modern engines don't need running in, but I believe you end up with a better engine by giving it a chance to bed in. It won't wreck itself, if you don't, but, if you do, it will use less oil and might even produce a bit more power. Also, again as said above, other parts of the car, such as the brakes and tyres, benefit from a little gentle treatment for a few miles.
In a few words, don't stress the car for the first 1,000 miles.
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It says in the manual: 1000 km
From the Manual:
"Running-in
First read and observe the introductory information and safety warnings →Introduction
Please follow the regulations concerning running-in new parts.
Running in a new engine
Any new engine has to be run in during the first 1,500 kilometres. During its first few hours of running, the internal friction in the engine is greater than later on when all the moving parts have bedded down.
The style of driving during the first 1,500 kilometres will also affect the engine quality. Even after this time – and especially with a cold engine – drive the vehicle at moderate speeds in order to reduce engine wear and to increase the mileage that the engine can cover. Do not drive at engine speeds that are too low. Always shift down gear if the engine is not running smoothly. The following applies up to 1,000 kilometres:
Do not depress the accelerator fully.
Do not drive the vehicle at more than 2/3 of the top engine speed.
If your vehicle has been approved for towing a trailer: do not travel with a trailer.
From 1,000 to 1,500 kilometres, gradually increase driving performance to top speed and highest engine speed.
Running in new tyres and brake pads
New tyres and replacing tyres → Information about wheels and tyres
Information on the brakes → Information on the brakes
If the engine is run in gently, the life of the engine will be increased and its oil consumption reduced."
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Don't baby the engine or run it in on motorway miles sat in 6th, barely ticking over either. Did that on one Golf and the oil consumption was very high (a litre per 1000 miles), with the fuel consumption pretty low.
Varied engine speeds is the key. I wasn't particularly gentle with my R and I get good (relatively) fuel consumption and it doesn't use a drop of oil between services. The last few VWs i've had have noticeably opened up around 700 miles - I do wonder whether VW build in a "first 1000km" run in program within the ECU on recent VWs.
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Don't baby the engine or run it in on motorway miles sat in 6th, barely ticking over either. Did that on one Golf and the oil consumption was very high (a litre per 1000 miles), with the fuel consumption pretty low.
Varied engine speeds is the key. I wasn't particularly gentle with my R and I get good (relatively) fuel consumption and it doesn't use a drop of oil between services. The last few VWs i've had have noticeably opened up around 700 miles - I do wonder whether VW build in a "first 1000km" run in program within the ECU on recent VWs.
We know they are creative with software, so it could be the case :laugh:
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Don't baby the engine or run it in on motorway miles sat in 6th, barely ticking over either. Did that on one Golf and the oil consumption was very high (a litre per 1000 miles), with the fuel consumption pretty low.
Varied engine speeds is the key. I wasn't particularly gentle with my R and I get good (relatively) fuel consumption and it doesn't use a drop of oil between services. The last few VWs i've had have noticeably opened up around 700 miles - I do wonder whether VW build in a "first 1000km" run in program within the ECU on recent VWs.
We know they are creative with software, so it could be the case :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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I tend to agree with the software theory above.
It certainly seemed that my car adjusted itself to my 'style' after 7-800miles.
I drove it quite carefully (under 3,500 in all gears, no speeding or gearbox decelerations) until I felt the engine freeing up and everything running smoothly after which I have gently progressed to working the car as intended.
Wheelspin is still a small problem as is controling the highend pick-up when overtaking but with 1200 on the clock its a superb drive and everything I expected from it.
Still set on economy btw.
Trying very hard not to love it to much as the last one I did that the car was written off by a red light jumper!
:smiley:
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From the Manual:
"Running-in
From 1,000 to 1,500 kilometres, gradually increase driving performance to top speed and highest engine speed."
Sorry officer, the book made me do it. :santa:
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From the Manual:
"Running-in
From 1,000 to 1,500 kilometres, gradually increase driving performance to top speed and highest engine speed."
Sorry officer, the book made me do it. :santa:
My car seems to think it's in Germany, sometimes!
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I do wonder whether VW build in a "first 1000km" run in program within the ECU on recent VWs.
I hope not because my CSS is a bloody handful already at 170 miles!
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Don't baby the engine or run it in on motorway miles sat in 6th, barely ticking over either. Did that on one Golf and the oil consumption was very high (a litre per 1000 miles), with the fuel consumption pretty low.
Varied engine speeds is the key. I wasn't particularly gentle with my R and I get good (relatively) fuel consumption and it doesn't use a drop of oil between services. The last few VWs i've had have noticeably opened up around 700 miles - I do wonder whether VW build in a "first 1000km" run in program within the ECU on recent VWs.
+1. Didn't baby my R, drove it from the off in a varied manner/speeds, and engine always up to 90° before pushing it, and first noticeable loosening up came at 650 miles (636 to be precise). Not used any oil between services. Now at 9k mikes now the car feels sublime.
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Don't baby the engine or run it in on motorway miles sat in 6th, barely ticking over either. Did that on one Golf and the oil consumption was very high (a litre per 1000 miles), with the fuel consumption pretty low.
Varied engine speeds is the key. I wasn't particularly gentle with my R and I get good (relatively) fuel consumption and it doesn't use a drop of oil between services. The last few VWs i've had have noticeably opened up around 700 miles - I do wonder whether VW build in a "first 1000km" run in program within the ECU on recent VWs.
+1. Didn't baby my R, drove it from the off in a varied manner/speeds, and engine always up to 90° before pushing it, and first noticeable loosening up came at 650 miles (636 to be precise). Not used any oil between services. Now at 9k mikes now the car feels sublime.
Well 621 miles = 1000km. My second Scirocco (170TDI), my GTD and my R have all suddenly opened up around this stage, as if they were being held back before this stage.
What I did notice with the introduction of the MK7 also is that the car does hold back somewhat when cold. There's a sliproad onto a dual carriageway that I use to make acceleration comparisons between my cars (to see what speed I reach when passing a certain signpost), and my Scirocco 170TDI was not held back in any way - it was a smidge quicker than the GTD when they were both a little cold (i've never cold raced my R), but the warmed GTD was a bit quicker than the warmed Scirocco.
There are all kinds of things going on with the software running the engine. I still don't know under what circumstances the R refuses to let the stop start kick-in at a junction/traffic light controlled roundabout. It is usually when the car has just been driven enthusiastically (understandable, as the turbo might be a touch warm), but not always.
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+1. Didn't baby my R, drove it from the off in a varied manner/speeds, and engine always up to 90° before pushing it, and first noticeable loosening up came at 650 miles (636 to be precise). Not used any oil between services. Now at 9k mikes now the car feels sublime.
Well 621 miles = 1000km. My second Scirocco (170TDI), my GTD and my R have all suddenly opened up around this stage, as if they were being held back before this stage.
There are all kinds of things going on with the software running the engine. I still don't know under what circumstances the R refuses to let the stop start kick-in at a junction/traffic light controlled roundabout. It is usually when the car has just been driven enthusiastically (understandable, as the turbo might be a touch warm), but not always.
I don't know either but it's a moot point for me as I hate Stop/Start and for every journey it gets switched off straight after ignition is on, it's now as much as my routine as fastening the seatbelt.
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+1. Didn't baby my R, drove it from the off in a varied manner/speeds, and engine always up to 90° before pushing it, and first noticeable loosening up came at 650 miles (636 to be precise). Not used any oil between services. Now at 9k mikes now the car feels sublime.
Well 621 miles = 1000km. My second Scirocco (170TDI), my GTD and my R have all suddenly opened up around this stage, as if they were being held back before this stage.
There are all kinds of things going on with the software running the engine. I still don't know under what circumstances the R refuses to let the stop start kick-in at a junction/traffic light controlled roundabout. It is usually when the car has just been driven enthusiastically (understandable, as the turbo might be a touch warm), but not always.
I don't know either but it's a moot point for me as I hate Stop/Start and for every journey it gets switched off straight after ignition is on, it's now as much as my routine as fastening the seatbelt.
Maybe it's a DSG thing with the hate for stop start. Don't mind it at all in mine - the car starts up when you dip the clutch to select 1st and by the time you're ready to go it is running, whereas with DSG, the car doesn't know you want to move off until you press the accelerator and you can't move off for 3/4 a second while the car splutters into life. With the manual, you stop and as soon as you see the lights changing to red for the traffic you've been waiting for, you can be ready to move off by dipping the clutch, it feels seamless on the manual.
I don't like it on my Dad's DSG GTD for the very reason that you're seemingly waiting an age for the car to react to your accelerator prod (3/4 of a second sometimes seems like an age when you're looking to move away from a roundabout (maybe another reason why the manual can be a bit more economical if DSGers have a general preference to turn stop-start off?).
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+1. Didn't baby my R, drove it from the off in a varied manner/speeds, and engine always up to 90° before pushing it, and first noticeable loosening up came at 650 miles (636 to be precise). Not used any oil between services. Now at 9k mikes now the car feels sublime.
Well 621 miles = 1000km. My second Scirocco (170TDI), my GTD and my R have all suddenly opened up around this stage, as if they were being held back before this stage.
There are all kinds of things going on with the software running the engine. I still don't know under what circumstances the R refuses to let the stop start kick-in at a junction/traffic light controlled roundabout. It is usually when the car has just been driven enthusiastically (understandable, as the turbo might be a touch warm), but not always.
I don't know either but it's a moot point for me as I hate Stop/Start and for every journey it gets switched off straight after ignition is on, it's now as much as my routine as fastening the seatbelt.
Maybe it's a DSG thing with the hate for stop start. Don't mind it at all in mine - the car starts up when you dip the clutch to select 1st and by the time you're ready to go it is running, whereas with DSG, the car doesn't know you want to move off until you press the accelerator and you can't move off for 3/4 a second while the car splutters into life. With the manual, you stop and as soon as you see the lights changing to red for the traffic you've been waiting for, you can be ready to move off by dipping the clutch, it feels seamless on the manual.
I don't like it on my Dad's DSG GTD for the very reason that you're seemingly waiting an age for the car to react to your accelerator prod (3/4 of a second sometimes seems like an age when you're looking to move away from a roundabout (maybe another reason why the manual can be a bit more economical if DSGers have a general preference to turn stop-start off?).
I think there might be something in what you say. I just couldn't stand that part second delay just when you most want instant acceleration. However with DSG a light touch on the brake pedal or a wiggle of the steering wheel will stop it from kicking in altogether, I just can't be bothered with that and prefer to just disable it. If I ever get around to getting VCDS or OBDEleven then ill completely disable it. Some have reported that S/S kicks in whilst they are still moving but I've never had that. Truth is there are so many variables that it is almost impossible to second guess the parameters around it.
As for mpg, mine is pretty crap anyway - long term between 19-21mpg, and a long ago accepted fact, so the impact of switching off S/S is not a concern.
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I don't like it on my Dad's DSG GTD for the very reason that you're seemingly waiting an age for the car to react to your accelerator prod (3/4 of a second sometimes seems like an age when you're looking to move away from a roundabout (maybe another reason why the manual can be a bit more economical if DSGers have a general preference to turn stop-start off?).
I don't mind Stop/Start at all on my manual but I would never allow it to kick in on a roundabout.
Even with a manual I'd always have it in gear and ready to roll as soon as that gap appeared. I don't think I'd be any different when changing to the DSG.
Certainly traffic lights are different as you aren't aiming for a gap.
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I disabled the Stop/Start using OBDeleven.
As for running in, keep an eye on oil usage and if it is using some give it some welly and that will help bed the rings in correctly. You can be too kind to modern engines and that causes them to use oil.
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My previous, a Mk5 never needed any oil between any of its services.
Anyone thrashing a new car, any car, before its bedded itself in (650-1000 miles typically) is either leasing it or doesn't care about (or realise) the damage they might be doing.
Boothy, your 19mpg or a little over :cry:
I used to get more than that with Land Rover 110 2.5 TDI going cross country 50% of the time.
Id buy Oil shares and get some back if I was you :smiley:
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My previous, a Mk5 never needed any oil between any of its services.
Anyone thrashing a new car, any car, before its bedded itself in (650-1000 miles typically) is either leasing it or doesn't care about (or realise) the damage they might be doing.
No-one is suggesting thrashing a new engine but modern VAG diesels do need working firm but fair from new otherwise oil consumption will be very high. Fannying about for the first 1000 miles is almost guaranteed to give you this problem.
If the mileage is still low it can be made better if not cured by doing as I and others have suggested.
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[quote author=phazer modern VAG diesels do need working firm but fair from new otherwise oil consumption will be very high. Fannying about for the first 1000 miles is almost guaranteed to give you this problem.[/quote]
I suppose its a question of words or phrases and what each of us means by those we use.
Eg;
'Thrashing' to me is running the engine above 2/3 max in any gear for extended (2-5min) periods, or traffic light sprints when the engine hasn't reached its working temperature.
Can you explain what you mean by 'fair but firm' and 'fannying about' please?
Also what would you consider a high oil consumption in a quantity? (say, between services).
Q: Does anyone know if there is any accurate documentation that states clear running-in figures (and expected oil consumption) or is the handbook all we have to go on?
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It's really not difficult. Bounding off the rev limiter whether hot or cold would be considered thrashing. Shoving the gear stick into first from 5th or 6th at high speed would be thrashing it. Pulling away hard from traffic lights is not (how you deliver the power vs. traction and it's effect on the transmission is another matter).
Firm but fair - Up to temperature, using the whole power band, which includes high revs but not limiter and not outside the power band of the engine as that's pointless. Hard acceleration in lower gears, again using the power band. Not taking 4 hours to accelerate to 40mph.
There's a school of thought of hard acceleration in third and then backing off to use cylinder pressure to force the rings to seat tightly against the cylinder bores and a bunch of other stuff - as I said before search on google, there's loads of info on this sort of run in.
Fannying about - serious question? :grin: You really don't know what sort of driving this would be? Oh well....Keeping the revs really low and accelerating really slowly, only doing 50 on the motorway for miles and miles etc etc ergo fannying about, driving miss daisy, like an old fart...whatever you want to call it :whistle: Not ever going above 2/3 of the rev range for a relatively short period of time would also fit into that....you need to drive your car harder.
The handbook is the only official information you will find on this topic along with the official acceptable oil consumption figures (I don't know anyone who thinks the top end of this would be acceptable but hey ho). VW's own "run in" information is pretty good actually, it certainly advocates working the engine properly in not so many words.
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I have never run in a car apart from making sure it was up to temp before using more than 2/3 of the rev range. The only car I have ever had that used oil over the last years was a bought second hand Range Rover and to check the oil in that I just looked under it in the morning :rolleyes:
It's not rocket science, just drive normally and don't either rag it or baby it.
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I just took it easy for the first 1000 miles, not only for the engine to bed in / run in, but also for the tyres, breaks etc to bed in. Also a car is made up of loads of mechanical parts, id rather know if something wasn't correctly going at an easy speed rather than ragging it!
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Phazer is spot on.
Had 8 VWs from new and the only one that used oil between services (using enough oil to warrant top-ups between services) was ran in on motorway miles - its first 700 miles were spent mainly sat in 6th maintaining 80mph on the motorway. It was a 140TDI PD MK5 Golf, and at 350 miles (driven straight from the Burnley dealership, to Southampton and then across to LeHavre on the ferry), just landed in France and I get the amber oil top up warning and it took the whole litre top-up bottle that came with the car. Back to Southampton and then home to Newcastle and it took another litre. From then on it used a litre every 1000 miles, it was sluggish and mpg was atrocious for a diesel.
The other 7 VWs have been run in on varied driving, and the cars have not been babied. I err on the side of not being afraid to get 2/3 of the performance out of a new engine once warm for the first 500 miles, 3/4 of the performance for the next 500 miles and then whatever you like after that. You have to do it responsibly, more for the sake of the tyres and brakes not being at their best for the first few hundred miles.
Without good ring seating you're going to get high oil and fuel consumption and be down on power, and you need to give the engine a bit of a workout early days to get good ring seating and avoid glazed bores.
You'll do more a far worse job of running in by babying the engine (tickling the throttle, labouring the engine in a high gear etc) rather than giving it a slightly enthusiastic workout.
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Need a 'like button' for Monkeyhangers post above :smiley:
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While the handbook states it needs running in when we speak to the techy people at vw they always say it doesn't need it as it's run in at the factory.
Even so they are very tight when new. I'm kinda running in my clubsport mainly because I can't put its power down and it's mental fast when revving to 4k anyway. Probably just as well it's been delivered in winter.
Have to say I've never seen any harm in cars that have been driven hard from the word go. Have seen a few that have needed attention after a remap though. Suspect the remap hurts the car more than being badly run in ever will.
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There's a thread on this (unsurprisingly) on another forum. The guy visited the factory and was in an area where GTIs were rolling off the production line and put onto a rolling road as part of the final testing faze. Basically he said they were redlined quite a few times as part of the initial engine tests (around 8-10 miles).
So I think any on here taking the gentle approach have missed the boat, as it's already sailed