GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: drisser on 26 July 2015, 15:40
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Hi guys
sorry for the delay, bit of a hangover to shake off :wink:
So it was a very fun but actually quite tiring day trying to download all my thoughts from yesterdays GTi - R -S3 -RS3-M235 - 330D fest.. So first of all, the positive surprises and disappointments..
1. I was genuinely excited about driving the RS3 but was a bit disappointed with the drive. Sounds angry as hell on start up, but the 5 cyl didn't sound quite as good as I thought it would.. Stunning to look at personally, drew quite a few turned heads with the aggressive looks.. Lovely inside with the super sport seats and I guess if I had money to but would love to have one. For me though, an S3 offers 90% of the real world performance and all the same qualities, much lower running costs (RS3 showed 18mpg average, S3 managed 27), for 75% of the price.
2. M235 surprised me. I didn't get on with the M135 and Auto box a year or so ago but the 235 just felt like a better more solid, planted drive. Maybe the longer wheelbase and stiffer chassis. Engine sounds fantastic and has real punch, I would say apart from the RS3 grip an M235 would be pretty much as quick on most driving and for some reason this time I liked the auto box.
3. Disappointed at how outdated and clunky the GTi / R infotainment system is now... A couple of years ago it looked fresh but now it look outdated and slow, with poor graphics. I found it incredibly frustrating to try and find the menus to select driving modes but in fact anything. BMW's professional nav is by far the best in this class - and better than the nav on the S3 as well in my view. Everything is much more intuitive and easy to find off one menu and the nav graphics are much much better. £900 option on the 330d v £1500 on the S3. Come on VAG that's a rip off.
4. GTI PP still offers most of the performance of the others at much lower costs and I assume running costs. It’s still a really good drive and with modest spec, good discount and the right colour I still like it a lot with the PP. Didn’t have a huge chance to test out the diff but did manage to push it and I think in most real world driving the decent torque would keep it in touch with the others. It’s a cracking everyday proposition and very tempting still at around £25k with discount. The R ? Hmm, I am personally not a convert, sorry guys. I totally understand why people would buy one, I really do. But for me the slight weakness with the GTi also applies to the R – interior quality is not up there with the Audi or BMW, the infotainment etc as an all round ownership proposition will lose more money. If you just want bang for buck though I would see why someone would buy one, but the appeal in the GTi PP is the price and everyday usability, running costs – once you step up from that and go over £30k I think I would pay a bit more for the S3 because the residuals are much better and I still think for a 4 cylinder car it is knocking on too much money.
I am looking for a longer term car that covers all bases, with a min 50% deposit so I really want to protect my money as much as possible and the S3 feels a safer place. Its only personal taste but I still prefer the classic look of the GTi PP in white to the R – I think its just a bit too subtle for the halo model. Hope that doesn’t offend anyone with an R – as said I 100% get why someone would get one, but its not on my shortlist im afraid and if I was stepping up from a GTi I would want a more expensive feeling power train ie 5 or 6 cylinders..
5. Loved the S3 much more than I thought I would. Such a nice interior and feeling of quality, and in sportback form, with just a couple of options still makes me think it is the best place to put your own money for the long term, albeit its still vey pricey for 4 cylinders and to a degree the same shortcomings of the R apply. It is practical, quick, fun when you need it, refined when you don’t, understated so you don’t have boy racers on your backside all the time. I last drove an S3 in the previous model and didn’t like it at all, felt wooden and no fun – much preferred the Mk5 GTi as a daily car. This one to me feels much better though. Stunning traction – did a full bore standing start onto the dual carriageway on a greasy surface and not a hint of spin. Same applies to the R mind you.
So that is my initial thoughts… in terms of the individual cars and my impressions –
GTI PP. I still like the look in the right colour, love the seats, great standard spec so you don’t need to add much. I would have one with a manual box to keep the cost down and it’s a nice gearbox. Love the punchy torque and grip and lets be realistic, in 5 door form it’s a brilliant all rounder – read a review “ its plays all the averages without being in any way average” Couldn’t agree more. Still very tempted if I could get a really good deal on one, just not sure it would keep me satisfied for 3 years though and the cheap infotainment would really annoy me. GFVs have been hammered I think – 24 month PCP GFV is only £13,500 !? You can only put in 30% max on a VW PCP – WHY !? Audi you can do 50% so if you have a big deposit, it’s annoying within the same group ..as I don’t want to pay interest and keep the money in the bank earning less..
Golf R – Great performance per £, let’s face it, it’s an S3 underneath so why pay more if performance is all you want ? That’s the rub for me, it’s not just performance I want and so I would pay the extra for an S3. Where the GTi PP says value for money, the R is still a golf, albeit quicker but the interior quality is no better and the price a fair bit higher ( did they give it in my view, horrible cloth seats on purpose knowing most people would really have to spec leather to give it a premium feel ?). The headline price might be not that much more than the GTI PP but you have to add so many more options in my mind to make it feel “more desirable” wheareas I love the GTi with cloth seats, standard wheels, std spec etc, with the R I would want leather, 19inch wheels, nav, metallic paint etc.. and that erodes the benefit v the S3.
Audi S3 - Really impressed me as an all round proposition. Yes its expensive v the Golf R but personally I think it’s worth it and you would get you money back. Looking at used values of previous model S3’s they still go for £20k plus at 4 years old. Interior is lovely, not bad spec – leather and heated seats standard, decent standard alloys, 5 door practicality. I found it a really good all round drive and its right up there in my thoughts. Compare the PCP – with the 50% deposit you are allowed the PCP comes out at around £120 a month v £396 for the Golf GTi !! That means I can more or less do 50% down now, pay not a lot for 24 months then pay off the other half, that’s very appealing.
Audi RS3 – Stunning to look at and all the plusses of above with a better engine. Didn’t sound as amazing as I hoped though and not really realistic as an everyday driver for me. Love the aggressive and slightly subtle look and the front 8 piston brakes are just awesome. I did an 80-0 stop in what felt like about 3 seconds and it nearly ripped my face off. Worth the £50k or so ? Not for me, would put it into a Cayman for that money and worth double a GTi PP ? No chance !
M235i – really liked this car. I wasn’t originally going to drive it because of 2 doors and no 4wd means probably not the right car as an all year round daily driver. But access isn’t bad into the back and good boot. Lovely driving position, real feeling of quality up there with the S3 and a notch above the golfs. BMW Prof Nav for me is the best in the business at this price level – stunning graphics quality, so easy to use and also not mega £ option price. Engine is fantastic but you are always thinking “ go easy, its rear wheel drive” on anything other than dry roads whereas the R and S3 let you give it max all the time. If I had a GTi and wanted a move “up” I would have this up there on my list, specially if I didn’t want 4 doors. I will have a moan again about VAG fuel efficiency. Yes it’s not the no 1 priority but I caned the hell out of BMW’s 3 litre turbo 6 and got 25MPG average – so how then with a 2 litre 4 cylinder in the R and GTi did I only get 21 and 27 respectively on the same roads and same driving ? I have had lots of VAG and BMW cars and BMW engines are without question way more efficient in my book. One of the reasons for going VAG rather than BMW would be smaller more efficient engines but in my experience you simply don’t get any benefit of a highly strung 4 cyl turbo v a bigger 6 cyl. Had a good chat about prices, not huge discounts available though – around £2k of support and maybe £750 discount so its still well into the mid £30’s for a reasonable spec car..
330D X drive – the “sleeper” in this list really. Not the same kind of sling it around car, as the X drive has the softer suspension because there isn’t room for it with X drive. Take note anyone who thinks a 330D M sport X drive has M sport suspension, it doesn’t, it has the softer standard ride and you can feel it. If I was pondering a 330d X drive, and I am, it made me think hmm should I lose the 4 wd, save some money and have the sportier ride. BMW diesel engines – where to start, what a stunning powertrain with the 8 speed auto. Caned it on the same route and got 41 MPG !! It’s a brilliant, comfortable all round package and fast enough to eat most things on the straights at least. Lots of space, very practical and the economy is appealing even though the engine sounds fab for a diesel. Throw in the amazing deals on outgoing cars – as mentioned I have some options on fully loaded cars at £10k off list price and its very appealing..
My verdict
Hmm this is tricky because everyone has different needs and I don’t want to offend anyone. Firstly they are all great cars in their own, if slightly different way.. I guess I am looking for a daily driver to tick all the boxes so don’t be offended if you have a different view. I have hopefully given a very unbiased opinion of all the cars, but my verdict for my need is –
Top of my list and still can’t separate them – Audi S3 and BMW 330D. The best interiors, great drivetrains, nice infotainment. BMW counters the S3 strong residuals with better kit and discount. Both play the refined card one day, fun the next better than anything else here.
Next – GTI PP appeals the most – really good value for money, great everyday drive, I prefer the looks to the R, going to be cheaper to run than anything else here, although the GFV worries me and I don’t like the 30% max deposit rule. Felt quicker than a 6.4 sec 0-60 as well.
4th – M235 – A lot of compromises but feels expensive, goes like hell, lovely sound, fairly practical for a 2 door. Prob a better used buy 1-2 years old or when better discounts come.
5th – Golf R – Apols to the guys who have one – I can see the appeal for the performance, but it’s too like any other golf for me and the 0-60 bar room discussions don’t worry me in the real world – M235 feels and sounds much more expensive, S3 is a much nicer place to be and worth the extra £ and the GTi looks better (in my view) and is a lot cheaper. I know why VW have made this car and it is a great drive, really fun, but I would want something that felt more expensive at £30k+ and was more differentiated. The interior spec sheet stinks of profiteering to me (not so the GTi PP) because of the options I would want (need) to add to give it a premium feel. If you got a cheap lease deal then good effort – I wouldn’t put my own money into one though I think it will lose too much over 3-5 years. Would be a great used buy in 3 years though I reckon.
6th - RS3 – So much promise on paper, but let me down after driving the S3 before it. S3 offers most of the fun, more subtle looks and much lower costs. Money no object would love one in the garage. Most amazing brakes I ever tried on a car and would probably shake off most supercars point to point. Danger is speccing it up enough and would be knocking on £50k. Stunning piece of quality engineering though.
There you have it. Only my view, sorry for the long write up and no offence to anyone with any of the above cars, they all make a case for themselves. The experience also converted me to DSG / Auto boxes in this kind of car. I honestly can’t decide yet but I am torn between and S3 and 330d, then in the background the GTi PP is still winking at me saying “I’m a bargain” !! A lot will come down to the deals now I think, should have some figures on the S3 tomorrow – the appeal there is 50% deposit, £100 a month then pay the balance in 24 months. 330D can’t be ignored though due to straight line performance / refinement / interior quality / tech.
One final thing - if you are going to be testing cars like this, def drive them same day, same route back to back and you can also really compare specs so much better.
Cheers guys, great forum !
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Interesting read.
I agree with your final 2 choices of S3 and BMW F30.
If you want 4WD get the S3 but not the 330d xDrive unless you mod it (£800 fitted for ACS Springs).
If you are happy with RWD, get the 330d sDrive. It is a brilliant car and ever so fast, economical and comfortable.
BMW tech is the best; which might swing your final single choice towards a BMW F30.
The best driver's car for me though is the R, but I would not sink too much of my own money into it and definitely not into a GTI PP. The R is great as a cheap lease.
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Great write up drisser. Just to mention, you can make an overpayment on VW finance after taking it out. This would let you hit a 50% "deposit". They should give you the option of reducing payments or the term when you make the overpayment.
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Great review of the cars, you should apply for a slot 'Top Gear'.
My GTI PP turns up in a week or two and have been reading all the reviews of the RS3 having second thoughts on whether I'd done the right thing and should have stretch ££ for the Audi. But reading your comments I think the GTI PP gives a lot for the money and provides great performance for amazing low running costs etc. I agree with your comments on the R as well, great car but for me when I test drove it didn't feel enough to justify the extra outlay in the real word.
Thanks again, enjoyed reading your thoughts and look forward to see which you go for, personally I'd be edging towards the S3 as I think the interiors alone are a different class.
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Excellent reviews :cool:
Though I'm committed to an R and not looking for an alternative (though if BW slips any more you never know!!) this makes for very interesting reading, especially the RS3, which I would have had at the top of my list, (if I threw caution to the wind financially). Just goes to show you don't know until you drive them! I still haven't test driven the R - oh well a bit late now, lol. But I like it for the reasons you feel slightly let down - i.e. it's still being a Golf under the skin.
So you've narrowed it down to the S3 v 330D. How will you make the final decision? Head or heart?
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Great review Andy. It sounds like you were very impressed with the S3. I think if money was no object then the RS3 would probably be the one most of us would opt for given its mighty performance but it probably cost a fair bit to run on a day to day basis.
Both the GTI and R represent great value for money but I have to say as good as they are, dare I say they are just a bit boring (especially to look at). The M235i definitely ticks a lot of boxes with me but I would be slightly apprehensive with it being rwd especially given the weather we get in this country.
Keep us posted what you end up doing :smiley:
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Thanks Craig
yes the S3 definitely impressed me as an all rounder.. Think you are right about the RS3 - its one of those cars everyone would love to open the garage door and see on a Sunday morning, or hope that one day you pulled up at the lights next to a Cayman and see the look on the drivers face when he saw the size of the RS3's front brake calipers !
Even though I rated it last, it's still has serious desirability factor to the point I could see myself wondering how I could buy one and running an old diesel heap to work 4 days a week so I could drive the RS3 on a Friday !! One of those cars that oozes class and you would be heading to the BMW dealer to order and turn off en route and order an RS3 instead..
Try an M235 Craig think you will like it..
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Great write up!
I'm still awaiting delivery of GTi (non-PP version), and I only put down around a 10% deposit.
I think value-wise, the GTi is best balance, but I would have to agree that moving up from GTi, the Audi's do tend to be better value (compared to R).
After ordering the GTi, I did reliable the 135i is available with huge discounts, and would have similar monthly payments. However my biggest surprise was seeing the S3 is available for only a fraction more than GTi per month, no doubt due to its super strong GFV. If not for my fear of losing the part deposit I've given over, I would go for an S3. Yes, the standard spec isn't quite as strong as golf, and tbh I don't think I'm sold on the look of the Audi (the A3 in general, but also the annonymity of the S3) but I must agree, that the Audi is a step ahead inside!
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For me, the difference between the R and the S3 comes down to weighing up external looks vs internal looks and how much you want to spend on it.
Not many would argue that a 5 door R looks significantly better than a S3 Sportback externally (Sportback looks a bit estatey).
Not many would argue either that the S3 interior looks better - apart from that cheap looking pop-up screen - will be a feature in the wife's A1 also, Audi do like to go for the minimalist look on the instrumentation (as do Seat), which is achieved when the pop-up screen is folded down.
The R is so well equipped that you can easily live with factory spec, the S3 will need some money throwing at it to get the kind of things i'd expect to be standard on a £30k + car (auto lights/wipers, climate control, parking sensors, folding wing mirrors, dynamic headlights, interior lighting package, hold assist, ACC etc).
There's now only £145 between a 5 door R and a Sportback S3, but the R gives you £2700-worth of equipment in lieu of leather, about the same cost of adding the better leather to the R.
The GFV for both cars implies that the S3 will be worth £2k more than the R at 3 years old, but you'll have lost that by adding equipment to the meagre standard spec.
The R is "just a Golf", but the S3 is "just an A3".
There's nowt between them - admire the exterior looks of one or the interior looks of the other., swings and roundabouts, any implication of cheapness for the VW is pure badge snobbery, they are built to the same standard. I doubt i'd ever fling my R around to the level that would see you notice the supposedly better handling it has over the S3. It's harder to get a good level of discount from an Audi dealer than a VW dealer, especially if you have a p/x. I had to battle hard to get very close to broker prices on the missus' A1 (with no p/x to consider), and the same dealership scoffed when I was chasing £3k discounts on the S3 and a reasonable p/x on my GTD.
My next car might be an S3 to make it feel like a change, or I might go impractical with a new TT, as we'll have a second car in the household and practicality will be less of a priority - if only I can exit it gracefully (something I didn't manage the other week when shopping for A1s). :grin:
I'm a bit wary of RWD, so that would put the 235i out of contention for me, and it is the least practical one of the bunch. The RS3 looks an expensive proposition to run, well worth it for some.
If leather seats are a must in either car and you can get that big discount from the Audi dealer then there'll be coppers between the 2 cars.
The 330D is a completely different beast to the rest of the shortlist.
The R is a bit of an anomaly in that there are plenty of people that are in them because they got a cheap lease deal and some of those have really stepped up in what they're driving (there are more than a few on the other forum that have swapped rusty old Corsas and Clios for an R) - I suppose the acid test is what you are comfortable spending your money on to buy or PCP.
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Don't disagree with most of your comments..
I think longer term retained values though the S3 is far ahead of any VW - just have to look at used S3's that are 5 + years old and they still make very strong money compared to a lot of cars. If I ordered an S3 tomorrow it would probably be at least November before I got it and RS3 both dealers I spoke to were quoting Spring 2016...
This purchase for me is about putting down big deposit of £15k + and having it bought and paid for after 3 years then probably keeping it longer, which is a slightly different approach to the PCP merry go round that a lot of dealers like to get people onto.. where the focus is simply lowest possible monthly payment
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Drisser: If you're keeping it for more than 3 years, i'd suggest you pay for the extended warranty - quite cheap for an extra 2 years peace of mind, or makes it easier to sell privately down the line at 2-4 years old.
Golf R residuals have always been good previously, especially R32 - it'll be interesting to see the impact of leasegate this time around. Audi GFVs were always cautiously low vs actual p/x value down the line, not sure if VW are now going the same way with the R's £3k drop in GFV in November, or whether they expect leasegate to hammer it that much (doubtful). Most should still expect £18k for a 3 year old R, which means zero equity above GFV for those who PCP'd on the old terms.
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Just one other comment regarding the RS3 and its price...
I specced one up to a decent level, at about £45,500. A similarly specced TTS running on S3 /Golf R mechanicals is a similar price, so in that respect the RS3 is far higher in the desirability stakes in my mind due to the powerplant..
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totally agree re the ext warranty. If I go down the Audi or VW route its first box ticked for sure and would make resale much easier I bet..
For some reason (unless I am wrong) I don't think BMW offer the same factory warranty extension, which is strange.. I think that's why a lot of M135 values take a hit in year 4 when people chop them in out of warranty..
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I wouldn't be too overly worried about GTI pp residuals. Looking on Autotrader there isn't a 4yr old GTI with avg mileage for less than £14k. With the discount and contribution it's a great cheaper option and it is a hoot to drive as well.
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Whichever car you choose, you won't be disappointed.
The S3 Sportback does look like a hearse (estate!). But I rather somehow like it.
The R, as I said previously, is the best driver's car and comes very well equipped. But the Touchscreen Nav is so yesterday.
The 330d is the most comfortable, has great performance and economy and comes with superb BMW tech. Unfortunately, the car is worth beans after 2-3 years.
BTW, it is 330d and not 330D. :wink:
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Good reviews!
I test drove a lot of cars before getting my R and apart from the interior the car is brilliant. My previous car (Mk7 GTI PP) I did 27k in and chopped it in for pretty much one single reason.....traction. It rain around 290 out of 365 days a year in this country which means you only 75 days a year to fully enjoy a GTI, because you try and stamp down first gear in the rain, ESP lights up and the car starts tramping. In the R, you can plant your foot at any point and it will just take off, no wheel spin, no ESP lights and no tramping. So as I was happy with a GTI otherwise, I took the next logical step. (After testing some jags, BMWs, Mercs and audis).
All the cars I test drove had there good and bad points but the R had the right good and bad points to suit me.
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One hell of a day you've had there. At least whatever you choose you can't sit there thinking "what if I had tried that?" lol
Were all of these cars with an auto box?
I'd be interested to hear how BMW auto compares to VAG's DSG.
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I'd be interested to hear how BMW auto compares to VAG's DSG.
I drive both a 330d sDrive M Sport with 8AT and a Golf R with DSG.
The two gearboxes are as good as each other. However, the BMW has a mechanical hand brake whereas the R has an electronic brake with Hill Hold which one can disengage. I far prefer the electronic handbrake/gearbox set-up in the VW as one can either have the auto box creep with the Hill Hold disengaged or with the Hill Hold engaged, one can remove one's foot from the brake pedal which one cannot in the BMW. 'Hill Hold' wih the BMW is working the mechanical handbrake brake and the accelerator the old fashioned way. Very clunky compared to the VW.
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I don't understand all this wariness of rear wheel drive.
I've had a few over the years. I had a Honda S2000 for two years as a daily driver (> 60K miles), no traction control and at that time lived on the Yorkshire Dales. I had no problems at all in the winter and I didn't run winter tyres on it. Yes, there were times when you needed to be ultra careful but I doubt at those times that 4WD with the same tyres would have been much different.
Unless you live in some of the more remote areas I see little value in 4WD on a normal road car. A two wheel drive car with appropriate tyres will serve you just as well in almost all situations.
And remember, in slippery conditions 4WD might help you get moving but it certainly doesn't help you stop any quicker...
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I think the waryness is caused by people having seen that when it snows even slightly, the roads (and ditches) are full of big BMW's and Mercedes... the combination of wide tyres, auto boxes and probably idiot drivers makes certainly me wary of owning something like that given that I have to be out in all weathers for work...
Its clearly not a "rear wheel drive" problem - I used to own RWD cars when nearly everything was RWD... but we didn't have fat tyres and auto boxes and huge supertanker sized cars...
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I think the waryness is caused by people having seen that when it snows even slightly, the roads (and ditches) are full of big BMW's and Mercedes... the combination of wide tyres, auto boxes and probably idiot drivers makes certainly me wary of owning something like that given that I have to be out in all weathers for work...
Its clearly not a "rear wheel drive" problem - I used to own RWD cars when nearly everything was RWD... but we didn't have fat tyres and auto boxes and huge supertanker sized cars...
Absolutely.
Lardy humans, lardy cars, lardy tyres, loony drivers. Great combination to be stuck in a ditch! :laugh:
As an aside: I was at my BMW dealership early this morning. There was a rather large couple getting really narked as the 5 Series did not have 4 cupholders, 2 on each side of the centre console: His and Hers. When asked politely by the salesman why they required so many, the rather massive woman piped up and said she needed one for her Mac milkshake (as did her even more massive husband) and one for a her coffee. You should have seen the salesman's face. Oh, she also complained that the front seats were too narrow and 'BMW should get their finger out and sort this basic design flaw!'
Time for a fat tax.
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totally agree..
even when I had a TT TDi Quattro to be honest it didn't inspire a huge amount more confidence in the snow because I wasn't worry so much about me, more about what everyone else was driving like !
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totally agree..
even when I had a TT TDi Quattro to be honest it didn't inspire a huge amount more confidence in the snow because I wasn't worry so much about me, more about what everyone else was driving like !
That's the real problem !!
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Really interesting to read drisser, very well written and interesting that the most expensive car came bottom of the list for your needs!
I'm also considering changing my GTI for something more family friendly (mine's only a 3-door) and can't decide what to go for. We've got a nipper on the way in September and I could do with something a bit bigger... Possibly an S3 Sportback, maybe a 330d M-Sport Touring or I really really like the look of a Passat R-Line B-Turbo Estate with a few toys.
Looking at some numbers later in the week and will be talking to dealers about possible p/x. That said, I really love my GTI and don't really want to let go of it but had a trial run with baby seats and pram in the boot and with the new Isofix bases, the seat struggles to fit in between the back of the passenger seat and the B-Pillar... Hmm.
Sorry for sidetracking... Looking forward to hearing how you move forward!
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We've got a nipper on the way in September and I could do with something a bit bigger... Possibly an S3 Sportback, maybe a 330d M-Sport Touring or I really really like the look of a Passat R-Line B-Turbo Estate with a few toys.
Snap!! I peruaded the Missus to trade hers in though so i can still have my fun :grin: :grin:
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We've got a nipper on the way in September and I could do with something a bit bigger... Possibly an S3 Sportback, maybe a 330d M-Sport Touring or I really really like the look of a Passat R-Line B-Turbo Estate with a few toys.
Snap!! I peruaded the Missus to trade hers in though so i can still have my fun :grin: :grin:
5 door GTI/GTD/R - perfect family car for small family and easily accomodates one teeny baby. I can understand 3 doors being a PITA with access, but more door version ticks all the boxes. I never felt the need to move to a bigger car with a child. 2 or 3 kids? maybe but otherwise Golf is fine. Then again I always travelled light on the baby gear front whereas some think it's suddenly necessary to transport the entire content of Mothercare around to cover every baby related eventuality. It's not. :laugh:
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As I said before.... we used to have a Mini (a real one, not a Teutonic imposter - ours was made by communists in Birmingham) and it all worked just fine (well, in terms of fitting the baby and crap in, the car itself was made by communists in Birmingham and used to go wrong all the time lol!)
A Mk7 Golf is the same size as a Mk1 Ford Mondeo... nobody would have said a Mondeo was too small for baby transport!
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We've got a nipper on the way in September and I could do with something a bit bigger... Possibly an S3 Sportback, maybe a 330d M-Sport Touring or I really really like the look of a Passat R-Line B-Turbo Estate with a few toys.
Snap!! I peruaded the Missus to trade hers in though so i can still have my fun :grin: :grin:
Haha, I wish I could do that. The Missus has a BMW 1-Series 3-Door and she got it 3 months before we fell pregnant so there's no chance of her changing hers just yet.
The Golf is a fine size and we'll manage for a while but if I'm changing for more doors, I think I'd like a slightly bigger boot too to accommodate the gear that comes with my various hobbies. The R estate would do nicely but as much as I love the Golf, I'll fancy a change next time round.
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As I said before.... we used to have a Mini (a real one, not a Teutonic imposter - ours was made by communists in Birmingham) and it all worked just fine (well, in terms of fitting the baby and crap in, the car itself was made by communists in Birmingham and used to go wrong all the time lol!)
A Mk7 Golf is the same size as a Mk1 Ford Mondeo... nobody would have said a Mondeo was too small for baby transport!
But life was simpler then....
They didnt have transportations systems (pram or pushchair just doesnt do them justice), isofix bases and multifunctional seats, and the rest of the stuff they have to have now.
We managed with a 2 dr E30 BMW 3 series when my first was born. The golf is def bigger than that but couldnt get a friend and her baby and stuff for one night in comfortably the other day....
Ian
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LOL maybe you are right.
We used to just sit baby on a cushion and tie her down with bale twine to make sure she didn't fall out.
The pushchair thing folded down to the size of a large golf umbrella.
Baby transporters these days have bigger wheels than my car ffs.
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There are plenty of more compact pram systems on the market that can fit into a Golf. Is logical to buy a massive pram system then have to buy a new car to accommodate it, or to choose a pram system that will fit into you current car? It's not like the golf is a very tiny car.
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This is what we have as a buggy http://www.babyzen.com/collection-yoyo.php
Fits into the footwell behind my seat and sits level with a car seat. Folds tiny! Just a bit bigger that a laptop bag
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Very worried my top spec performance car post has turned into a baby buggy thread ! :shocked:
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Very worried my top spec performance car post has turned into a baby buggy thread ! :shocked:
They seem to be breeding like no tomorrow! :rolleyes:
Come to a decision?
I love the RS3!
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Don't even go there..
I ranked it bottom and have spent all weekend and today wondering how I can afford an RS3..
I even looked on auto trader last night at cheap runabouts thinking I could just run a Honda civic 3-4 days a week to work so I could take the RS3 out of the garage on Friday..
Waiting on some dealer finance figures from BMW for an S drive 330d and from Audi on the S3 and RS3..
:huh:
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Nice report.
Managed perfectly well with twins who are now teenagers in various GTIs.
I had a people carrier for about 6 months. Hated it from day one, you just end up carrying more baby junk around.
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Shame about the rs3, put me off it now, but for that money I was thinking maybe an s4 wouldn't be a bad alternative and rumour has it the new one has the 4.0 twin turbo. Imagine the mapping potential!
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got some quotes in from the dealer this morning for S3 / RS3
Have so far managed to squeeze £2500 discount off a fairly decent spec £36k S3 as a previous dealer customer... which makes a 3 year pcp exactly £100 a month with my £16k deposit..
For the RS3 I have managed a £1400 discount from an also fairly good spec car at £46,850, down to £45,450. Ouch, still fairly pricey but that is high spec. With the same £16k deposit its £280 a month.
S3 looks good value really ?
One question - does the Golf R (and I assume also S3 ) run on 98 RON petrol only or 95 also. I must have missed the budget but diesel is the same price as unleaded everywhere now... which makes petrol less compelling v the 330d..
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So the RS3 is 2.8 times more per month. Not good value.
Diesel in some garages is cheaper than petrol now! Seen 94p/litre in one!
R/S3/RS3 require 98 RON. 95 RON can be used but you will lose a bit of power.
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For the S3 @£100 pcm over 3 yrs + £16k deposit comes to an equivalent of £544.44 per month. That's expensive.
BTW Alternate Route Finance have some cracking deals for the M235i, M135i, M3, M4.
M235i @ £309.99 incl VAT pcm, Deposit, £1,859.94 inc VAT, 8k miles, 23 months
http://www.alternativeroutefinance.co.uk/bmw-m235i-personal?utm_source=Alternative+Route+Finance&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=5968954_BMW+personal&utm_content=M2&dm_i=12U1,3JXOA,5GYQTB,CQWBA,1
M135i @ £279 incl VAT pcm, Deposit £1,674.00 incl VAT, 8k miles, 23 months
http://www.alternativeroutefinance.co.uk/bmw-m135i-personal?utm_source=Alternative+Route+Finance&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=5968954_BMW+personal&utm_content=M1&dm_i=12U1,3JXOA,5GYQTB,CQWBA,1
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Thing is I am planning to buy the car outright anyway so I am just looking at putting max deposit to minimise the monthly cost, then pay the balance at some point within 24-36 months so may main drivers are - not going silly on spec, not paying a high interest rate, and good residuals.
The way I see it with Audi as you can put down 50% its more or less half up front, pay the finance charges over 24-36 and the pay the other 50% off at the end which I am fine with.. personally don't want to be on a PCP bandwagon..
Its looking like a straight fight now between S3 and 330d to be honest they both tick a lot of boxes.. time to play them off against each other for the best trade in price and extras thrown in..
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Thing is I am planning to buy the car outright anyway so I am just looking at putting max deposit to minimise the monthly cost, then pay the balance at some point within 24-36 months so may main drivers are - not going silly on spec, not paying a high interest rate, and good residuals.
The way I see it with Audi as you can put down 50% its more or less half up front, pay the finance charges over 24-36 and the pay the other 50% off at the end which I am fine with.. personally don't want to be on a PCP bandwagon..
Its looking like a straight fight now between S3 and 330d to be honest they both tick a lot of boxes.. time to play them off against each other for the best trade in price and extras thrown in..
I see your point. I, however, get pretty bored with a car once the 2 year mark has passed.
Wonder which car will win? Both cars are very different, but both are super.
Best of luck in securing the best deal.
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You could try looking at total cost of ownership over a period?
MPG, Road Tax, Insurance, Servicing...
Unless of course the monetary difference makes not one jot to you.
Maybe add the extras you want to each and review the price again? Neither BMW nor Audi give you jack in the way of extras. BMW certainly don't even offer things like rear headrests without a cost!
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BMW certainly don't even offer things like rear headrests without a cost!
That is incorrect. All F30 BMWs come with 3 rear headrests as standard. Also, all F30 BMWs come with Sat Nav. 330d M Sports come with very good standard spec.
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Hmmm I'm sure when i started building a 5 series they wanted to charge me for headrests.... and mirrors and seats and....
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One question - does the Golf R (and I assume also S3 ) run on 98 RON petrol only or 95 also. I must have missed the budget but diesel is the same price as unleaded everywhere now... which makes petrol less compelling v the 330d..
A penny or 2 drop on diesel makes petrol less compelling now? Wait until the oil Sheiks stop over producing in order to seriously undercut the American frackers, everything will be up 20p a litre. 98 RON is the recommended fuel for the R (and the S3), but it will run at around 285ps on RON95. You're looking at 7 - 15p a litre more for Super unleaded than Diesel or regular unleaded right now.
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i did have a S3 moment today, sportback in sepang blue with the anthracite wheels
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i did have a S3 moment today, sportback in sepang blue with the anthracite wheels
I've seen one of those in the flesh, and turns an otherwise bland car into something special - awesome colour!
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i did have a S3 moment today, sportback in sepang blue with the anthracite wheels
I've seen one of those in the flesh, and turns an otherwise bland car into something special - awesome colour!
A few knock sepang for being too popular but it is a stunning colour, i did spec a S3 up last night but thought RS
I do need to test drive a RS and drive it properly to see how it does handle
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i did have a S3 moment today, sportback in sepang blue with the anthracite wheels
I've seen one of those in the flesh, and turns an otherwise bland car into something special - awesome colour!
A few knock sepang for being too popular but it is a stunning colour, i did spec a S3 up last night but thought RS
I do need to test drive a RS and drive it properly to see how it does handle
I've seen two RS3's, one in Sepang Blue, the other in the Red - both look stunning I have to say. I'm just not keen on the minimalistic interior - not doubting the quality of it, it just looks a bit dull for a £50k car.
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I'm going back tomorrow for a 2nd bite of S3 test drive actually this time a longer one..
And also booked an hour in the RS3.. That car gets under my skin thinking about it.. Both are Seoang and love the colour..
I actually really like the s3 saloon .. Haven't seen one in the flesh but seen Sepang saloon on the auc website and do like it.. Trouble is its then knocking on 38k pre discount and you are close to RS3..
Will report back after the longer drives tomorrow .. Want to really test the ride comfort on Rs3
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I found the ride of the RS3 quite hard with the sound of thumping wheels on rough surfaces. Quite a bit harder riding than my R which is on 18". I don't think I could stand it for too long. The RS3 boot capacity is the same as a Polo at 280 litres and it has no spare tyre.
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Not really the point perhaps but the options on the RS3 are staggering...
Just watching a review on XCAR and specced one up on the Audi website, there's not much as standard, that may be true of all Audi's but if it was me, I'd feel a bit peeved that I have to pay for things I think should be standard.
It's not quite Porsche levels of cheekiness when it comes to options, but surely Audi can stretch to fitting things like folding mirrors as standard.
Probably not the point :) I do admire the RS3, it's a beautiful car but it's a lot of money.
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I had a lengthy drive again today of the 330d / S3 / RS3 to try and make a choice.
The 330d is a brilliant all round car and the S3 kind of sits in the middle ground, both really good cars. The RS3 however has really got under my skin.. to the point im pretty sure I am going to order one next week.. despite ranking it "disappointing" before.
1. Exclusivity. I have a good rappor with my local Audi dealer and spent a good bit of time chewing the fat today. They are not allowed to order an RS model speculatively it must be a customer order and provide proof as such. They have been caught out with the demand (not so the TT - they said it has been " very disappointing" because of the pricing and they have 2 prereg cars on their forecourt. If you fancy a new TT, bargain hard - at least 10% discount is possible or more). So they said if I order an RS3 this week, not chance before 2016 of seeing it, likely to be mid Q1, in other words march 16 reg. I had a look at previous model RS3's and 4 year old ones are still high 20k's at dealers..
2. The engine has grown on me, its a real beauty. I managed to eek 27 mpg out of it as well on a 1 hour varied test drive. The 7 speed DSG and more torque means at 80mpg it turns over at 2k rpm v around 3k for the S3. Didn't notice this before but the S3 managed 30.1 on the same route, not a lot in it. Service costs and 5 year warranty are the same price.
3. Spec and prices. If you study the brochure in detail the RS3 actually isn't badly equipped at all. I looked on the RS3 forum and some people are speccing them up to 54k.. ridiculous .. Like anything, I think simpler is better so specced up metallic, 5 year warranty, titanium rotor alloys, B&O sound system (it was on demo car, awesome), cruise control, privacy glass, super sports diamond leather. That added about £3k onto list and I think I will get £1500-£2000 discount as a repeat good customer - about £42k for a very good spec car. I will skip the nav as the dealer said you can buy and SD car at any time for £495, the car is pre wired for nav anyway and the HDD nav is crap compared to BMW's prof nav.. The comfort and sound pack (B&O and cruise is much better value and more use to me)
With a decent deposit of around £15k it comes in at around £150 a month.
4. Looks - subtle aggression - not OTT or in your face but people "know". I think my test drive was summed up by - nobody wanted to take me on, except a motorbike on the twisties.. and he struggled !
Overall, its one of those cars that is a grower for sure. If you do fancy a test drive, make sure you get it for minimum 1-2 hours, try the ride settings etc etc. A spin round the block wont do it justice..
So, there you go.. somewhat confusing !? Still love the BMW 330d as an everyday car, its awesome. AM seriously pondering keeping my A3 diesel to run to work in and ordering an RS3, it just has a special feeling and lots of practicality. Of course you can buy a Cayman for around £42k, but the RS has some exclusive appeal, 4wd, boot, back doors etc.. could see me keeping one a long time.
Aggghh, cant make my mind up. The audi sales guy nearly fell off his seat when I said I can get a fully loaded 330d for £45k list discounted to around £34k !
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I can understand the allure if it's your one and only car, but as a second car/weekend toy I think you'd be mad to spend £42k on an RS3. So many options at that price if practicality isn't important.
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Have you thought of a Macan?
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There are items on the RS3 that i would expect to be standard. I can get round 'paying for a badge' - I did to some extent with the Golf, I get that you're paying for the power/design/engineering but this, when you've added a few bits is 45 - 50k car - that poses a lot of options, admittedly few with the practicality of the RS3 but I think having to pay for folding mirrors etc etc - that's just cheeky and I wouldn't.
But like the R, that does miss the point, maybe just take it at base spec, enjoy it and move on when you're ready. There's no denying it is an amazing car and would be an amazing experience to own, no matter what the spec.
James
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My dad pulled the trigger a month or so back to chop his cls 63 for a sepang blue s3. It's going to be just a quick in real terms as the cls because of the 4wd and being completely unable to dump 560bhp onto the road at any time regardless of weather. He was aiming for cheap as possible due to wanting a facelift end 911 when mums car is up so that explained not getting an RS3 but I also don't know if the RS is enough more car to justify the quite significant price jump. Safe to say you'd be excited by an S3 enough to not pine after an RS imo
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RS3 go for it.I would if I could afford one.
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there is no denying it isn't a cheap car.. and there is always the "what else can you buy for the money" but that applies at 20k, 30k, or 40k - you can get a 911 for the price of a golf GTi..
but I don't have the time for hassles and breakdowns so that performance, practicality etc is a compelling package with a 5 year warranty.. and RS3s hold their value incredibly well, which is a consideration.
I can quite do without folding mirrors or all kinds of bumf - the appeal is the powerplant and hardware so with 5 options on it, at £43,500 less £2k discount its just over £40k.. and lets face it if you spec a golf R with leather and heated seats, 19 inch alloys (all std on RS3) and a few other toys, its very easy to get into high £30s.
Yes there are better discounts but that always comes back in resale - it always does..
Anyway, I haven't decided for sure but I think its a compelling package - BUT - only if you keep the price very close to £40k... and I can spec what I need / want for that, I think people speccing to £50k+ are mad.. plus most dealers are giving 0 discount so I reckon with £2k off and £3.5 of options that isn't a bad deal..
Sometimes the sum of the parts is greater than the individual items and I think with the RS3 v S3 this holds true as well as I drove them back to back.. S3, very efficient, fast etc.. but the RS3 makes you tingle, it really does.
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ps one other point..
aren't all new cars expensive these days ? When you look around, everything seems a lot for what it is, be it an RS3, a bog standard diesel golf etc etc ?
It doesn't seem too long ago I bought a new MK5 golf GTi for about £23k after discount, now that car is £30k and its not really any faster - most cars just got fatter and need more power to drag their butts around and I don't think anyone has bucked that trend except maybe lotus !
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It doesn't seem too long ago I bought a new MK5 golf GTi...
Well, that's at least 7 years ago :D
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Drisser - Just out of interest what will be the price hike with your insurance going from a GTI to RS3? Or doesn't it bother you?
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Out of interest too, why didn't the m235i make the final cut ?
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Haha true the mk5 was a while ago !! Still, cars have got too pricey all round !
Insurance is good on ttheRS3, it was slightly cheaper than 330d x drive - from memory the s3 was about £320, RS3 was about £340 and 330d £350 a year, I am 41 with full no claims.
Re the m235, love the engine but the 2 door is a bit much of a compromise to me at that price when all the others have similar real world performance with better practicality ..
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When I was considering alternatives as my R build dragged out, I was surprised at the insurance variations. There was around a tenner between an S3 and an R (presumably the standard ACC on the R makes it that little bit safer on average), and the R was about £7 more than a GTD on the comparison sites. Considering anything by BMW was going to be about 60% more expensive to insure. Maybe the insurance companies are a bit behind on the old "BMW driver" stereotype - they're all driving Audis now. :grin:
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ps one other point..
most cars just got fatter and need more power to drag their butts around and I don't think anyone has bucked that trend except maybe lotus !
Apart from the Mk7 Golf it seems, which weighs less at 1270kg than the mk6 and mk5 (comparing Gti) with more power and more torque than the previous models. Interesting that what is not quick enough in a GTi today it seems (as many map them or trade them for the R) was more than enough in an E30 M3 with only 192 BHP and 1225kg approx, how times change...
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Yes... and the weight loss has more to do with cutting emissions and manufacturing cost than performance too!
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I must say the RS does look fantastic. This popped up on my Facebook feed today of a customer collecting their new sepang blue RS3. :evil: :evil:
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx40/CraigW_01/Mobile%20Uploads/191333DB-01F5-447A-A5D2-1D4AE19DA06A.jpg) (http://s739.photobucket.com/user/CraigW_01/media/Mobile%20Uploads/191333DB-01F5-447A-A5D2-1D4AE19DA06A.jpg.html)
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Pah Craig why did you do that ! :rolleyes: Was just trying to talk myself out of it !
Got my "best deals" on RS3 and S3 today. 4% off RS3 and 9% off the S3. I understand a lot of dealers are doing 0% discount on the RS, so I specced what I want, and it comes in at a shade over £42k. Quite a lot I know but not silly compared to some RS3's.
With a decent spec S3 and 9% it comes in at just over £32k for S tronic sportback and a few nice options. That looks good value compared to the RS3..
Its March / April 2016 delivery on an RS3 order now.. order books are bulging seemingly, still more time to save if I go down that route !
Waiting for a best offer on the 330d tomorrow.. we shall see what they come up with. Still love that car too, such a great all rounder - Audi dealer didn't believe I could get a fully loaded 330d for same price as a fairly basic optioned S3
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Sorry Andy :grin: :grin: :grin: :evil: :evil:
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If I don't buy an RS3 Craig my abiding memory will be from Saturday blasting down some B roads with a biker chasing me and then backing off when he heard the 5 pot engine clunking through the gears !!
You know you are in a fast car when only a biker wants to take you on..
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If I don't buy an RS3 Craig my abiding memory will be from Saturday blasting down some B roads with a biker chasing me and then backing off when he heard the 5 pot engine clunking through the gears !!
You know you are in a fast car when only a biker wants to take you on..
Andy you only live once mate. If you have the funds and its something that will give you a huge smile every time you step in it then why the hell not. All the other cars are no doubt fantastic but you may have that tinge of regret that you didn't just take that extra step.
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I must say the RS does look fantastic. This popped up on my Facebook feed today of a customer collecting their new sepang blue RS3. :evil: :evil:
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx40/CraigW_01/Mobile%20Uploads/191333DB-01F5-447A-A5D2-1D4AE19DA06A.jpg) (http://s739.photobucket.com/user/CraigW_01/media/Mobile%20Uploads/191333DB-01F5-447A-A5D2-1D4AE19DA06A.jpg.html)
That looks stunning!!! :cool:
Is there time for me to cancel my R and save up another £10k? :laugh:
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That looks stunning!!! :cool:
Yep, but that number plate is pants.. :whistle:
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That looks stunning!!! :cool:
Yep, but that number plate is pants.. :whistle:
Lol, it is awful. Kind of detracts from the intent of the car. Number plate suits the driver though. He does look like a Bob.
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I have two good plates on retention that would work..
FA 57 RED
UR 11 SLO
Last one would work on the RS !
:wink:
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I must say the RS does look fantastic. This popped up on my Facebook feed today of a customer collecting their new sepang blue RS3. :evil: :evil:
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx40/CraigW_01/Mobile%20Uploads/191333DB-01F5-447A-A5D2-1D4AE19DA06A.jpg) (http://s739.photobucket.com/user/CraigW_01/media/Mobile%20Uploads/191333DB-01F5-447A-A5D2-1D4AE19DA06A.jpg.html)
That looks stunning!!! :cool:
Is there time for me to cancel my R and save up another £10k? :laugh:
I'm sure there's plenty of people who could pay off half their mortgage waiting on an R with Prets to arrive! :grin:
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I must say the RS does look fantastic. This popped up on my Facebook feed today of a customer collecting their new sepang blue RS3. :evil: :evil:
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx40/CraigW_01/Mobile%20Uploads/191333DB-01F5-447A-A5D2-1D4AE19DA06A.jpg) (http://s739.photobucket.com/user/CraigW_01/media/Mobile%20Uploads/191333DB-01F5-447A-A5D2-1D4AE19DA06A.jpg.html)
That looks stunning!!! :cool:
Is there time for me to cancel my R and save up another £10k? :laugh:
I'm sure there's plenty of people who could pay off half their mortgage waiting on an R with Prets to arrive! :grin:
Only if they live up north :wink: :tongue: :laugh:
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there is no denying it isn't a cheap car.. and there is always the "what else can you buy for the money" but that applies at 20k, 30k, or 40k - you can get a 911 for the price of a golf GTi..
but I don't have the time for hassles and breakdowns so that performance, practicality etc is a compelling package with a 5 year warranty.. and RS3s hold their value incredibly well, which is a consideration.
My old 911 was much less than £42K... and it was utterly reliable (in 3 years and ~50k miles)... and needed servicing once per year... had 4WD... averaged around 28mpg... OK, it wasn't all that practical but it was not a "tuned up" hatchback, drive a car designed as a sports car and you'll feel the difference...
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its a valid point and not without consideration..
I am pondering going to drive a Cayman at the weekend actually as the base model, with manual box is supposed to be a sweet car and comes in at about the same price..
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Or how about a GT86 - its not got the power but by all accounts its an incredibly fun thing to drive.
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Or how about a GT86 - its not got the power but by all accounts its an incredibly fun thing to drive.
The interior of the GT86 is dreadful though. Cheap plastics throughout.
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Think I would rather just stick with my Fiat Coupe tbh, owes me nothing and is quicker than 90% of cars on the road today + sounds better !
Much as I love the RS3, and the fact its an 8 month wait quite suits me... I am really struggling to justify it at that price, and £10k more than an S3.. especially with the mileage I would do.. But then the S3 is also quite expensive for what it is...
The more I think about it the more the 330d is the sensible choice as a daily driver with the discounts available and the spec and performance you can get. Waiting to see what my local BMW dealer comes back with today...
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Think I would rather just stick with my Fiat Coupe tbh, owes me nothing and is quicker than 90% of cars on the road today + sounds better !
Much as I love the RS3, and the fact its an 8 month wait quite suits me... I am really struggling to justify it at that price, and £10k more than an S3.. especially with the mileage I would do.. But then the S3 is also quite expensive for what it is...
The more I think about it the more the 330d is the sensible choice as a daily driver with the discounts available and the spec and performance you can get. Waiting to see what my local BMW dealer comes back with today...
You need to post up a pic of your Fiat Andy :smiley: :smiley:
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Can do.. I have a couple of pics available - can you just past a link to photobucket or something on here ?
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try this
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2lk8avs.jpg)
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(http://i57.tinypic.com/2jey107.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/4hczzr.jpg)
£1800 + £2500 spent improving it.
0-100 in 14.5 seconds :wink:
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That's stunning Drisser. My Dad very nearly bought an LE when they were new but bottled it at the last moment. A friend's Dad has one in this exact colour, a one owner car since new. I drive past his house occasionally and it's sat at the back of the garden covered in moss with a space saver on. I'd love to take it off his hands one day.
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I bought this one about 5 years ago and just use it in the spring & summer..
Its only done 69k miles from new, totally original, even came with the press release and brochure and a huge wad of paperwork.. don't ever want to sell it to be honest.. I owned one of these back in 1998 when they first came out, I worked for a company who were part of Fiat so we could get them at a discount. The performance back then was simply out of this world for the £ - it was close to Ferrari 348 / Honda NSX level.
Lavished a fair bit of money on it so far mostly mechanically, wheels refurbed etc. It now needs a bit of bodywork attention to get it into tip top shape but it still turns heads on the road even these days.. Not many good ones left really, plenty chavved up versions lying in scrap yards..
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I had a yellow one as a company car for while - I was waiting for my Honda Integra Type-R to be delivered so I took it off a guy who was leaving... It was quite fun... but a little prone to power understeer. It is amazing what Fiat did with the Tipo underpinnings :cool:
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Number plate suits the driver though. He does look like a 300lb Blob.
Corrected! :evil: :laugh:
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The more I think about it the more the 330d is the sensible choice as a daily driver with the discounts available and the spec and performance you can get. Waiting to see what my local BMW dealer comes back with today...
Or just get an R. Simples. :cool:
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(http://i57.tinypic.com/2jey107.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/4hczzr.jpg)
£1800 + £2500 spent improving it.
0-100 in 14.5 seconds :wink:
That looks lovely Andy. No wonder you don't want to sell. Love the colour!! :cool: :cool:
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Number plate suits the driver though. He does look like a 300lb Blob.
Corrected! :evil: :laugh:
Ooh, b!tchy! :laugh: And what would your personal plate be my dear?
The more I think about it the more the 330d is the sensible choice as a daily driver with the discounts available and the spec and performance you can get. Waiting to see what my local BMW dealer comes back with today...
Or just get an R. Simples. :cool:
Did I read that right :shocked: Did you just recommend an R over a BMW :evil: :laugh:
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(http://i57.tinypic.com/2jey107.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/4hczzr.jpg)
£1800 + £2500 spent improving it.
0-100 in 14.5 seconds :wink:
That looks lovely Andy. No wonder you don't want to sell. Love the colour!! :cool: :cool:
That is beautiful!
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Thanks for the compliments guys..
There lies the issue, if I go for an RS3 it needs to be garaged as I couldn't use it every day, which means the fiat has to go... Then I still have my 5 cyl fun..
And spending 40k on a car that cost me 4 seems wrong..
So if I have to run another car it kind of makes sense to keep the fiat and run a nicer every day car but prob not an RS3 .. Hence a 330d makes a lot of sense..
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Number plate suits the driver though. He does look like a 300lb Blob.
Corrected! :evil: :laugh:
Ooh, b!tchy! :laugh: And what would your personal plate be my dear?
The more I think about it the more the 330d is the sensible choice as a daily driver with the discounts available and the spec and performance you can get. Waiting to see what my local BMW dealer comes back with today...
Or just get an R. Simples. :cool:
Did I read that right :shocked: Did you just recommend an R over a BMW :evil: :laugh:
I have a personal plate which I have retained.
I can't believe how I have progressed to the letter R at last! There must be an eclipse or some such phenomena.
I wonder whether drisser is going for a BMW sDrive or xDrive. If it is an xDrive, he should go for the 335d. If it is an sDrive he should consider the 330d or 340i. Big cars.
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I have a personal plate which I have retained.
I can't believe how I have progressed to the letter R at last! There must be an eclipse or some such phenomena.
I wonder whether dresser is going for a BMW sDrive or xDrive. If it is an xDrive, he should go for the 335d. If it is an sDrive he should consider the 330d or 340i. Big cars.
I've never had a personal plate. Quite happy with whatever random number I get given. Although that said, the last three letters of my current reg could be construed as an abbreviation for a (usually) solo activity men often indulge in!!!
Indeed some cosmic event has occurred.....the planets must have aligned! Whatever has transpired to bring about your shift towards the letter R, it is a good thing.
I'm not sure which of the BMW's he will go for, maybe he's not sure either. He may have test drive fatigue after that whirlwind Saturday. Must have been great fun though, but enough to make your head spin. Not a decision I would like to make, but that said it would probably be the RS (based on no test drives, or rational data!).
Btw, why do you keep calling Drisser, Dresser?
Any nearer making a decision Drisser?
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Whoopsie, whoopsie, woo. I have corrected my error. drisser it is! Thanks for correcting me. As always you are such a pedant! :kiss:
We should start taking bets now on which car drisser will end up with. :laugh:
He might even end up with a Mercedes C Class! He needs to test one to complete the circle. But then he might wait for the new A4 or Alfa Giulia (I just love this car). His search goes on.
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Very funny chaps :grin:
C class not on my radar can't stand it... have kind of gone off X drive now to be honest, the suspension was a bit roly..
I am however now pondering a 430d ! I like the 330d powertrain but wonder if I REALLY need 4 doors. Noticed the std spec on 430 is very good indeed - Prof Nav, leather, elec seats, heated seats all std. Only thing I would add is M sport + package... suspect the discounts aren't as good as 3 series though...
Oh and yes I have test drive fatigue big time !!
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There are some stinking lease deals on 4 series gran coupe in M sport guise, one car i'd rent over buying
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Whoopsie, whoopsie, woo. I have corrected my error. dresser it is! Thanks for correcting me. As always you are such a pedant! :kiss:
laugh:
I've been called worse, probably by you. :tongue: :kiss:
I wouldn't have mentioned it but as you keep drawing attention by emboldening it in blue, it started to do my head in :laugh:
We should start taking bets now on which car drisser will end up with. :laugh:
Maybe we should run a sweepstake? Pass the virtual hat around! :laugh:
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I think drisser will never make up his mind at this rate this side of X-mas and by the time he does all the good deals would have evaporated.
And I do type drisser and it autocorrects to dresser.
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Just push it all the way and buy a M3.
If I was going to spec up an expensive car, I'd probably go with one of those.
I drove my mate's one a couple of years ago and it is fantastic. Around some private roads I pushed it hard and it is simply a beast, utterly amazing.
There's no way I could drive one of those every day though - my licence would be destroyed in weeks :(
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Not sure when the new M2 is supposed to come out but that could be nice..
or there is a used 1M coupe... they haven't depreciated at all..
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Not sure when the new M2 is supposed to come out but that could be nice..
or there is a used 1M coupe... they haven't depreciated at all..
The M2 might be released at Frankfurt, however, is not a limited run, only 400 1Ms and they are awesome and the one car i regret not buying
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I think this thread should be renamed 'I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure'
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Much to the relief of no doubt everyone on the forum... I have made up my mind to go with the 330d if I can get the right numbers sorted this weekend..
I think I will get a better PX price than Audi too.. and its the perfect all round car for me really given its a daily drive of some dual carriageway and some B roads..
PLus I don't want to sell the fiat coupe which I would need to do if I bought an RS3.. this way I can keep it.
Sorry to have tried everyones patience :grin:
Oh, next issue - colour and spec. Well spec is easy - M Sport + package with the bigger brakes, Professional Nav and heated seats, that's pretty much it. Love the Saddle brown leather and given almost every 3 series has black leather, I want something different. Thinking Black or White over saddle brown leather maybe, or white with red leather..
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Good decision. 330d M Sport sDrive?
Colour EBII with Coral Red Leather = Superman
Get: Adaptive LED lights. They are brilliant. The best of the best. Adaptive M Sport Suspension a must with 19" Wheels. Lumbar Support. Seat Heating Front (at least). M Sport+ Package. Active Security Package. Advanced Parking Package. VSS. Enhanced Bluetooth. Steering Wheel Heating. Headlight wash.
That should do it.
No go and spend your money. You accountants are loaded!
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Looking at your R spec... no surprise you would choose all those options !!
I thought the ride was perfectly good on the 19inch wheels.. I def don't need advanced parking packages... LED headlights are std now, although adaptive is an option I think... Steering wheel heating ?! Are you serious man !?
What does enhanced Bluetooth give you over std arrangement ?
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Much to the relief of no doubt everyone on the forum... I have made up my mind to go with the 330d if I can get the right numbers sorted this weekend..
I think I will get a better PX price than Audi too.. and its the perfect all round car for me really given its a daily drive of some dual carriageway and some B roads..
PLus I don't want to sell the fiat coupe which I would need to do if I bought an RS3.. this way I can keep it.
Sorry to have tried everyones patience :grin:
Oh, next issue - colour and spec. Well spec is easy - M Sport + package with the bigger brakes, Professional Nav and heated seats, that's pretty much it. Love the Saddle brown leather and given almost every 3 series has black leather, I want something different. Thinking Black or White over saddle brown leather maybe, or white with red leather..
Congrats on coming to a decision. I'm sure it will be a fantastic car. And we'll want pics when you get it. Hope the numbers work out for you :smiley:
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Enhanced Bluetooth telephone with USB & Voice Control
£ 430.00
Enhanced Bluetooth telephone preparation with USB audio interface and Voice Control makes it possible to wirelessly connect several compatible mobile phones and a separate audio player to the car at the same time using a Bluetooth interface and the hands-free facility. Coupled devices are operated via the car's controls. The network connection can be improved by connecting to the external aerial. A snap-in adapter with charging function is provided for this purpose (compatible with an array of mobile phones), which also allows convenient single-handed operation. A second microphone for the front passenger is included with the equipment. Voice control enables features such as the hands-free facility, navigation system, audio system and other car settings to be operated using spoken commands. A third device for music can also be connected and operated using the car's controls, allowing audio files to be played over the audio system at any time.
Benefits at a glance:
• integration of up to two smartphones and a separate audio player
• wireless Bluetooth connection
• improved reception with the external aerial when the snap-in adapter is used
And do get the Adaptive Suspension. Worth every penny. It is brilliant and really makes the car. Would not be without it especially with 19" Runflat tyres. Horrid ride without it IMO.
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I do fancy head up display though :cool:
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I do fancy head up display though :cool:
Well that does not make the car ride better, does it? :tongue:
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Ride more than acceptable in F3x 3 Series on 19" with M-Sport suspension and run-flats - my g/f's 320d Touring M-Sport is that spec.
The ride is night and day better than the previous model in the same config. Adaptive damping may be a "nice to have" but by no means essential. I'd take the pano sunroof instead... lightens up a fairly dark interior...
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Have you looked at the 430D Gran Coupe?
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For a few more quid you could get the 335d :evil:
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You could !
But realistically the 330d is more than quick enough as a daily driver (lets face it, 45 MPG and 0-60 in 5.6 secs is pretty decent) and 335 comes in X drive only. There is something not quite right about how the X drive looks to me, it just sits a bit high because of not having M sport suspension.. plus the 335 is quite a few insurance groups higher than 330d
Plus the appeal is keeping price sensible - 330d, no Xdrive, a couple of options for around £34k discounted is a really good buy but pushing higher towards £40k makes it less attractive tbh..
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although a used 640d is a great buy at around £30k when they were over £60k new.
Fully loaded with kit and a nice cruiser but not a lot of space in the back I think and I am guessing they are a pig to move on when they are older.. given the values already are very low v the new price..
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Congrats on the decision drisser! Spec wise, you've covered off most with the M-Sport Plus Pack and Pro Nav. I'd also add Comfort Access and Reversing Camera to that too.
Colour wise, I'm with you on the saddle leather and I particularly like it with Mineral Grey paint. My Wife's new 116i M-sport is Mineral Grey with Oyster Leather. Looks ace in the sun. Pic below just to give you an idea...
(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc481/birchyboy87/PN64%20MDY%20BMW%20116i%20M-Sport/2014-09-06162335_zps8ec9aaf3.jpg) (http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/birchyboy87/media/PN64%20MDY%20BMW%20116i%20M-Sport/2014-09-06162335_zps8ec9aaf3.jpg.html)
(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc481/birchyboy87/PN64%20MDY%20BMW%20116i%20M-Sport/2014-09-06162326_zps5d886d70.jpg) (http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/birchyboy87/media/PN64%20MDY%20BMW%20116i%20M-Sport/2014-09-06162326_zps5d886d70.jpg.html)
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I have emailed the dealer a spec to price up
Estoril Blue with Saddle Leather (understand this is quite a new option on M sport ) but I love tan coloured leather, had it on 2 Alfa's before.. Every other BMW has black leather and I definitely want something a bit different. Saw an E46 M3 in Estoril with Saddle leather and it looked very nice.
Grey looks nice on the 1 series, not so sure on the 3 mind you.. I do love black with tan leather but again I think the colour doesn't do the 3 series much good.. so kind of settled on Estoril & Saddle, White with Red leather or maybe daringly, Red or White with Saddle leather !
All I have added is
M sport +
Prof Nav
Heated Seats F&R
Head up display.
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Think mine would be a Touring in Tanzanite Blue with oyster leather, 442M alloys, M Sport Plus pack and Pro Nav.
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Have you looked at the 430D Gran Coupe?
Yes... but only once... I couldn't bring myself to look at it again :sick:
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Had some numbers through although haven't seen the full quote yet to see breakdown of the net price, that's on the way.. but it looks like I am going to be able to strike a good deal.
I have a quote on an LCI factory order, gross price as specced was £41,300. Taking into account the finance charges, it looks like the net discounted price is around £33,750.
They also have a stock car (black with oyster leather) they are prepared to do a mega deal on for 1 September.. Its £40,989 and they are prepared to sell it to me for around £31k. Wowzer, full £10k off list for a brand new car.
BMW have also offered me £500 more than Audi, for an Audi A3 PX !?
The stock car has all I need except the M sport brakes (it has M sport design package which is everything less the brakes - shame as I do think the 330d needs the bigger brakes and the std ones look weedy..)
Still, that car comes in £2k cheaper than a factory order, but I am tempted to drive a hard bargain on a factory order and get exactly what I want spec wise..
Have dangled the carrot I am coming in Saturday to try and do a "deal" :rolleyes:
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Think mine would be a Touring in Tanzanite Blue with oyster leather, 442M alloys, M Sport Plus pack and Pro Nav.
That's exactly what mine would be too. Tanzanite is s gorgeous colour.
Drisser, sounds like a mega deal there, particularly on an LCI model. Congrats.
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Can we banish you to some BMW forum now though please :)
I'm just glad you saw sense and avoided the RS3 money pit.
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point taken will stop banging on about BMW now !
agree re the RS3.. definitely too much for a family hatchback..
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Don't get me wrong, your posts have been really interesting and its a discussion I'm sure a lot of us have enjoyed and benefited from :)
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very eloquently put :wink:
actually im sure a lot of us into cars have had the same debates about similar cars ! It has been really interesting reading everyones reactions and even though I am going down the 330d route, everyone on this forum is very level headed. Quite funny because I looked on the RS3 forum after the Evo test and its hilarious to see everyone else's different reaction to a test..
At the end of the day everyone's requirements are different - I love the Golf, gti in particular and did order one back in 2013 before circumstances changed, but strangely when I drove it again a few weeks back I didn't get the same buzz...
I think maybe I have had enough of the same kind of "hatchback" - which lets face it the GTi / R / S3 / RS3 are pretty similar underneath with bigger or smaller engines and wheels.. so it seemed logical to go for something different this time.. plus as the Americans say, there ain't no substitute for cubic inches and I have got a bit bored of the 2 litre 4 cyl hatch thing if I am honest, I hope the 330d will be a more refined experience, and fast enough when I need it..
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Congratulations on the choice Andy. Hope you stick around the forum to share with us your thoughts on the new car when you get it :smiley: :smiley:
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Plus as the Americans say, there ain't no substitute for cubic inches and I have got a bit bored of the 2 litre 4 cyl hatch thing if I am honest, I hope the 330d will be a more refined experience, and fast enough when I need it..
It will and in spades. BMW engineering is second to none.
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Plus as the Americans say, there ain't no substitute for cubic inches and I have got a bit bored of the 2 litre 4 cyl hatch thing if I am honest, I hope the 330d will be a more refined experience, and fast enough when I need it..
It will and in spades. BMW engineering is second to none.
Their 3L diesel units seem far more reliable than their 2L units - my mate's 2010 320d dropped its swirl flaps into the turbo last year (41k miles on it), one of many who BMW won't help out on goodwill and admit to a design fault. Both the BMW 3L and the VAG 3.0TDIs sound very nice (while paying a visit to DTUK last year there was a very sweet sounding 3.0TDI Q5 getting a box fitted).
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Read all of your thread, very interesting comparison of all cars and how you got to the final decision.
You seemed to battle with the RS3 with desire versus cost, in my view the RS3 is the only 'special' car amongst them where as the rest will blend into anonymity with very subtle looks.
Have seen a few of the RS3's on the road and they just have immense presence and a purposeful stance, coupled with the sound of the 5 cylinder engine and 'RS' badge kudos IMO it's a very special car.
The obvious difference is also the price with the RS3 as ultimately making something more painful financially to own keeps the rarity and exclusivity with the masses sticking with the cheaper choices.
I have no doubt you will be very pleased with your choice of the 330d as its a peach of an engine with the 8 speed auto, my 320d MS has now covered 88k very enjoyable miles since 2013 and its a great workhorse.
Enjoy :)
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Raffe
Thanks for your comments, I think we all had an interesting debate.
In the end, the fact that my fiat coupe sailed through its MOT a couple of weeks ago made my mind up, also being furnished with 5 cylinders. I just couldn't run an RS3 as an everyday car I would put too many miles on it... So my decision was 330d + keep the fiat for £34k and have a nice fast every day car, or buy the RS3 and sell the fiat and still have to buy a cheap runabout.. It didn't make sense to spend £45k or more to do that when actually my fiat sounds as good if not better than the Audi ( yes really )
Of course money no object an RS3 in the garage would be nice but we live in the real world !!
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I've come to the conclusion for my fleet there will now be cars i will rent and cars i will own
On the rent front to replace the Polo its a GTD or BMW of some sort and I'm liking the 4 grand coupe, something both over above my utility principles for the work horse
On the purchase front I'm going back to limited run VW or something with a M badge
M2 is getting more excited than the R400 at the moment and will probably overshadow the RS3 which for me totally misses the point
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Raffe
Thanks for your comments, I think we all had an interesting debate.
In the end, the fact that my fiat coupe sailed through its MOT a couple of weeks ago made my mind up, also being furnished with 5 cylinders. I just couldn't run an RS3 as an everyday car I would put too many miles on it... So my decision was 330d + keep the fiat for £34k and have a nice fast every day car, or buy the RS3 and sell the fiat and still have to buy a cheap runabout.. It didn't make sense to spend £45k or more to do that when actually my fiat sounds as good if not better than the Audi ( yes really )
Of course money no object an RS3 in the garage would be nice but we live in the real world !!
All makes fair/logical sense.
I'm in a similar position as I have an S2000 as a toy to accompany the 320d which is my company car. The wife has a new Fiesta ST-2 so we have a nice mixed fleet.
Unfortunately I am a serial car modder with the S2000 in for a rotrex supercharger next year accompanied by chassis/brake upgrades....aiming for 400bhp.
Family members think I'm nuts throwing money away, but when I point out the depreciation all of their new cars are achieving in comparison to my car which is paid and rock solid value wise, I'm spending a lot less money and getting something I really want........
My point I suppose is this is a similar comparison to your Fiat vs the RS3...great to have the latest fast car, but it costs ££££ if you want to play that game and you can achieve your car thrills many different ways.
Enjoy your 330d, I have no doubt you'll love it :)