GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: petecollie on 14 June 2013, 18:48
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Don’t you think that the reviews for the new Golf GTD are disappointing compared to the new petrol GTI’s which are very, very good. I know the fuel economy is better in the GTD but everything written about the GTI is so brilliant. My budget just stretches to a GTD but I know if I could have either it would be the GTI.
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I think the problem is that the GTi is just such a very good car, that reviewers are comparing the GTD to the GTi and saying it doesn't give quite the same buzz as its petrol sister. The GTi is a hard act to follow and the GTD was never going to perform the same.
To be honest, I never expected it to feel like a GTi (otherwise why would you buy a GTI), I expect it to feel like a fast diesel that looks like a GTI, with supreme comfort, prestige and dashing good looks. I think we won't be too disappointed (I hope).
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Don’t you think that the reviews for the new Golf GTD are disappointing compared to the new petrol GTI’s which are very, very good. I know the fuel economy is better in the GTD but everything written about the GTI is so brilliant. My budget just stretches to a GTD but I know if I could have either it would be the GTI.
Are you positive you can't afford a GTI. The price differential is only £600 and you are getting some really good discounts on the car.
However, if you can't afford one then don't worry because the GTD will be a terrific car in it's own right. Both cars look pretty much identical from inside and out. In terms of the reviews I would take these with a pinch of salt to be honest. If you get a test drive in a GTD when they hit these shores i'm sure you will be impressed :smiley: :smiley:
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Don’t you think that the reviews for the new Golf GTD are disappointing compared to the new petrol GTI’s which are very, very good. I know the fuel economy is better in the GTD but everything written about the GTI is so brilliant. My budget just stretches to a GTD but I know if I could have either it would be the GTI.
If you're interested in getting a GTI, I can ask my dealer to get you a price. I got an amazing discount.
Let me know if you're interested and I'll ask me dealer.
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I have had both a mk6 GTI and GTD, had the GTI new in 2009 and changed to the GTD in 2012.
Both cars are brilliant and I have enjoyed owning each one - however speaking from my experience the GTD should not be considered as a substitute for a GTI! Although they both look similar that's about where it ends.
For me the GTD is a superb mode of transport which offers great style and quality with excellent economy, the GTI however is all of the above but also made me smile every time I drove it.
I guess what I am saying is that the GTD lacks the excitement of the GTI.
All the above is purely my opinion.
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I really doubt anyone will be disappointed with the GTD. Looks like a fantastic car to me!
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I think Norbreck got it about right.
It's my view that the GTD should have been launched BEFORE the GTI. That way it would have received rave reviews and only served to whet the appetites of the hacks for the forthcoming GTI. That would have been the right way to launch them both. But they got it wrong again. Like many things about the GTD/GTI Mk7 roll out. Shambles.
I too am a bit naffed off that the GTD is being compared so unfavourably against the GTI. Not a fare match really. One is high revving, much more powerful machine, while the other sails on a wave of torque.
We'll just have to wait until a knowledgable motoring jurno gets to ride in the real thing. Of course what they should be doing is compare this new GTD against the Mk6 GTD and NOT the Mk7 GTI.
Basic really.
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VW driver have a full road test in next month's issue. Shame it's another month to wait for it :evil:
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Most of reviews I have seen so far have been by the numbers and constructed from varying different information sources that I could have written just as well and I have not been near one!
So I am looking forward to some UK based and in particular Video reviews and obviously then from those who receive first here.
The GTD is not a hot hatch it is however still pretty quick at 7.5 seconds (Parkers state 7.3 seconds and state official Volkswagen manufacturer data?) and I think those who have GTD/A3 with the 170BHP Diesel will understand there is still plenty of satisfaction driving it around as mine certainly is no slouch :)
If I am not disappointed now how could I be with something that is lighter and quicker?!
But it depends what expecting if disappointed? If want a Hot Hatch then you would be! because as quick as mine is I have never seen it as a head to head competitor
My satisfaction comes from the balance of performance, economy, and bang I get for my ££ due to C02 concessions in purchase and BIK
So if a reviewer is disappointed they are obviously looking for something the GTD will never be and should have bought a GTI or one of the other hot hatches.
My guess is that most who have selected the GTD will know full well what they are balancing and be very happy with performance
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Agreed... I am looking forward to a great big smile on my face when I tip my right foot and the torque floods through. In the real world....with my A4...if I was trying to get a half decent MPG (34) all the diesels would sale past me probably delivering 50 -60 mpg.... therefore more often than not, imo, it has to be diesel.
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I think the GTD reviews have been positive. if your disappointed with what you've read then the GTD is not for you.
It really depends on what you want your car to do.
Everyones requirements are different and it depends what you want your car to do for you.
for me neither the GTI or GTD are going to excite me. I sold my seriously tuned ED30 and bought a Nissan GTR back in 2009 in the quest for more power. and yes it was a rocket ship but I never got a sense of excitement or adrenaline I get from riding a motorbike. The build quality was pretty nasty and the running costs where shocking. I got rid after only 7 months and bought a new Triumph Speed Triple and a Golf GTD and have never been happier. I just don't get the feeling of being at one with the machine with any car as I do on a fast motorbike.
I'm just after a new car that appeals to me that can do big miles in as much comfort as possible.
it needs to look the part, have a quality interior and have a bit of get up and go and not cost the earth to run. The MK6 GTD I own now does all of those things. The new one is lighter, faster, better equipped and costs less to run.
I myself did way up the cost of the GTI v GTD as my daily transport and for me the GTI works out approx. £160 more a month due to lower running costs and better future value for the GTD.
for me thats £160 a month I would rather spend towards my new purchase. A New BMW 1000 HP4 Cant wait :evil:
If your toying with a basic spec GTD v GTI as your do it all motor and your not doing more than 10k miles a year and you want the best all rounder on the market today I would go for a basic spec GTI if the piggy bank allows.
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My Heart says GTI and my head the GTD. But in real world running costs the GTD probably makes the most sense. The reviewers never seam concerned with fuel economy, perhaps only when doing a long term test do you get a true reflection of what a car is like to live with in everyday life.
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My Heart says GTI and my head the GTD. But in real world running costs the GTD probably makes the most sense. The reviewers never seam concerned with fuel economy, perhaps only when doing a long term test do you get a true reflection of what a car is like to live with in everyday life.
I'm sure you would be more than happy with either model.
What are you driving now?
GTD Demos should be available any time soon.
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My Heart says GTI and my head the GTD. But in real world running costs the GTD probably makes the most sense. The reviewers never seam concerned with fuel economy, perhaps only when doing a long term test do you get a true reflection of what a car is like to live with in everyday life.
If you feel you could afford the GTI then imo that's what you should go for. You don't want to have any doubts/regrets that you made the wrong decision because after all it will live with you for 3-4 years depending on how long you keep your cars for.
On this occasion I would let your heart rule your head :smiley: :smiley:
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Just love this from the Scotsman review : "The Golf GTD’s appeal operates at a higher cerebral level, and rewards drivers who recognise that you don’t need to mash the throttle to maintain a rapid pace and put a smile on your face. In other words, the GTD is a GTI for grown-ups"
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Corrected :grin:
Just love this from the Scotsman review : "The Golf GTD’s appeal operates at a higher cerebral level, and rewards drivers who recognise that you don’t need to mash the throttle to maintain a rapid pace and put a smile on your face. In other words, the GTD is a GTI for old gits"
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I'd ignore the reviews. Firstly virtually all of them seem to be 90% word for word copies of the VW press material, complete with mistakes on the options.
Secondly, 9/10 of these reviewers are as dumb as the idiot kids hanging around and posting crap about how they'd never touch a GTI or GTD with a barge pole because its underpowered, boring and overpriced, while secretly wishing they had the money to buy one! Apparently the only thing you need to judge a car on is the 162kw figure and the price tag. Go figure.
Anyway, I digress. The GTD is a superb car that no one in the world should be disappointed with. Can't think of another vehicle offering the same performance and efficiency at this price, and on that measure you could even be prouder as a GTD owner than I could be as a GTI owner.
Ignore the reviews, they're (mostly) written by people whose only skill required for the job is to string a few words together, not an engineering degree. They probably only drove the car for an hour, or maybe not at all. These two elements do not qualify them for making a judgement about owning it. Just saying.
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Just love this from the Scotsman review : "The Golf GTD’s appeal operates at a higher cerebral level, and rewards drivers who recognise that you don’t need to mash the throttle to maintain a rapid pace and put a smile on your face. In other words, the GTD is a GTI for grown-ups"
I actually couldn't disagree with The Scotsman more to be honest. It has nothing to do with being cerebral and more to do with common sense. The GTI is the performance car out of the two. If you don't do a high mileage or do lots of short journeys then the GTI is the one. Let's not overthink this please. The Scotsman is just trying to be clever and in doing so has scored a fail. Say it like it is if you must, not like how you imagine it might be. :rolleyes:
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I'd ignore the reviews. Firstly virtually all of them seem to be 90% word for word copies of the VW press material, complete with mistakes on the options.
Secondly, 9/10 of these reviewers are as dumb as the idiot kids hanging around and posting crap about how they'd never touch a GTI or GTD with a barge pole because its underpowered, boring and overpriced, while secretly wishing they had the money to buy one! Apparently the only thing you need to judge a car on is the 162kw figure and the price tag. Go figure.
Anyway, I digress. The GTD is a superb car that no one in the world should be disappointed with. Can't think of another vehicle offering the same performance and efficiency at this price, and on that measure you could even be prouder as a GTD owner than I could be as a GTI owner.
Ignore the reviews, they're (mostly) written by people whose only skill required for the job is to string a few words together, not an engineering degree. They probably only drove the car for an hour, or maybe not at all. These two elements do not qualify them for making a judgement about owning it. Just saying.
Well said that man!
Couldn't agree more
Most reviews are just regurgitated rubbish by people too idle to actually review the car themselves.
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It did make me laugh when I saw the Scotsman reviewer summisation that all petrol drivers are boy racers and idiots.
As for the OP, you've got to take into perspective what you are driving now. If you are used to Diesels, you are going to be blown away on the performance unless you are coming from a BMW 125D or a 3.0TDI Audi. On the build quality and interior front, you are going to be impressed unless you're coming from a BMW 5 series (or higher), an S-Class Mercedes or any Audi.
If you are coming from a petrol with 200PS+ to your GTD then you might feel like it is a downgrade. Through the gears the GTD won't feel noticeably slower than the GTI if you know TDIs well and when to change up and down optimally. Off the line it will, but unless you're a boy racer you won't feel robbed by the 0.6s difference in 0-62mph. Someone without much diesel experience who's coming from a petrol and jumps into a GTD (or any other higher end TDI) might feel it is very slow if they cock up the gear changes - the 2 cars drive quite differently to get the best out of them.
As for the financial differences, only you can decide what you'd rather be doing with your money. I could afford to run a GTI, but i'd be spending £100 a month extra, and i'd rather be spending that money on something else for the 10% loss in performance on paper and negligible performance loss when driving it within the confines of UK traffic laws (or just outside it).
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Best of both worlds?
Golf GT 140PS
0 - 60 = 7.8
42 to 58mpg in the VW Driver tests.
About £3000 cheaper
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Best of both worlds?
Golf GT 140PS
0 - 60 = 7.8
42 to 58mpg in the VW Driver tests.
About £3000 cheaper
The GTs have much lower residuals (47% retained after 3 years) vs GTI (54%) and GTD (56%), going purely by VW finance guaranteed future values. You only save £1200 over 3 years for a GTI or about £700 for a GTD on car price alone. Better buying the GTD over a GT unless you really don't like Diesels and won't stretch to a GTI.
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All agreed and thanks for the numbers.
Just pointing out a possible option for people reading potentially disappointing GTD reviews.
You want it to be perfect (within limits) when you're spending £25,000
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The other thing is, once you specced the GT to similar levels as a GTD (Xenons, 18"alloys, dual climate etc), then the difference in cost is even smaller.
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The GTI and GTD are different cars. To compare them is moronic, which sums up 99% of reviewers IMO. GTD buyers need not worry, it will be a fantastic car.
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The GTI and GTD are different cars. To compare them is moronic, which sums up 99% of reviewers IMO. GTD buyers need not worry, it will be a fantastic car.
^This, lets be honest, do you prefer reading what forum members that have driven the car say or journo's that drive all sorts and everything?
I know which i prefer. :smug:
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That's the problem Jimble, none of us have actually driven the GTD to give an owners perspective :laugh:
Come on VW, sort yourself out....
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That's the problem Jimble, none of us have actually driven the GTD to give an owners perspective :D
Come on VW, sort yourself out....
Won't be long now..... :-X
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Won't be long now..... :-X
:grin: post of the day!
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I’m just driving a Focus TDI at the moment so either car would be a big step up for me. Looking back at the mark 6 GTD the reviews are very good 5 stars in most cases, I was just surprised with the mark 7 reviews, but I guess that’s because VW really nailed the new GTI. :rolleyes:
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I’m just driving a Focus TDI at the moment so either car would be a big step up for me. Looking back at the mark 6 GTD the reviews are very good 5 stars in most cases, I was just surprised with the mark 7 reviews, but I guess that’s because VW really nailed the new GTI. ::)
The biggest problem is that most of the reviews are compared to the GTI rather than other performance diesels in the class which imo is probably top of! :)
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Quite right Jimble... why the reviewers test the GTD against the GTI makes no sense.
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I’m just driving a Focus TDI at the moment so either car would be a big step up for me. Looking back at the mark 6 GTD the reviews are very good 5 stars in most cases, I was just surprised with the mark 7 reviews, but I guess that’s because VW really nailed the new GTI. ::)
The biggest problem is that most of the reviews are compared to the GTI rather than other performance diesels in the class which imo is probably top of! :)
Couldn't agree more with this. It's extremely unfair to pit the GTD against the GTI. Nuts! And very lazy journalism thats really starting to bug me.
This new Mk7 GTD needs to compared to its peers;
BMW 120d M Sport 181 bhp
Merc A220 AMG Sport 167 bhp
Alfa JTDM Veloce 167 bhp
Mini Cooper SD 140 bhp
Vauxhall GTC Coupe CDTi bi-turbo 192 bhp
Ford Focus TDCi 163 bhp
Seat Leon FR 181 bhp
Now the above would make a great group test!
Should I email it to AutoExpress :wink:
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I think there will be a hell of a lot of private buyers who will consider both the GTI and GTD. They both have their strengths and weaknesses but at least the higher torque of the GTI should give it a bit better 'feel' on the road than the mk6 GTI (and mk5 and mk4 and mk3 etc) needing far less gear shifting to make progress.
For company car drivers then yes, the other Diesel cars in roughly the same price segment will be the ones considered, but private buyers are a different kettle of fish. I'd be happy with either but the GTI stirs the heart for me more.
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I wanted a diesel car. I choose the top of the range diesel. If I wanted a petrol I would of choose the GTI. They are like night and day and in my opinion should never be compared to each other. And as for poor reviews I havent seen anyone drive one yet. The build quality will be superb and it will drive lovely. It just wont set your pants on fire!
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I wanted a diesel car. I choose the top of the range diesel. If I wanted a petrol I would of choose the GTI. They are like night and day and in my opinion should never be compared to each other. And as for poor reviews I havent seen anyone drive one yet. The build quality will be superb and it will drive lovely. It just wont set your pants on fire!
As standard no, but a remapped GTD would certainly light up the tarmac!!! :evil:
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Part of the problem (and the appeal) is that they made the GTD far too similar to the GTI in terms of appearance and specification. So, it quite naturally gets compared to the GTI, and I actually don't see anything wrong with that given how closely they are related. You just have to read the reviews with a different perspective, and take notice about what actual owners and those who have driven it in the real world say. I'm sure that those who bought the GTD did so because of the lower entry cost, better fuel economy, lower road tax, and higher residuals. To that end, I highly doubt anybody who buys one will be disappointed, but when it comes to reviews, they are always going to have some bias. The GTD is obviously going to be a lovely car to drive, but it's also not going to have the "pep" of its petrol-powered sibling, or the street-appeal.
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Part of the problem (and the appeal) is that they made the GTD far too similar to the GTI in terms of appearance and specification. So, it quite naturally gets compared to the GTI, and I actually don't see anything wrong with that given how closely they are related. You just have to read the reviews with a different perspective, and take notice about what actual owners and those who have driven it in the real world say. I'm sure that those who bought the GTD did so because of the lower entry cost, better fuel economy, lower road tax, and higher residuals. To that end, I highly doubt anybody who buys one will be disappointed, but when it comes to reviews, they are always going to have some bias. The GTD is obviously going to be a lovely car to drive, but it's also not going to have the "pep" of its petrol-powered sibling, or the street-appeal.
The GTD being a carbon copy of the GTI in everything but the engine under the bonnet is the biggest appeal to me. You essentially get a GTI with the vast majority of the performance in everyday driving (torque makes up for losses in off the line acceleration), and 30% more economy in a package that will cost the average miler around a grand a year less overall to run it for 3 years than an actual GTI.
If the GTD had been nothing like a GTI in spec and styling then i'd happily cop for the extra. The list price difference is not really a factor on it's own - it's barely more than the cost of metallic paint, but factor in the fuel and tax savings and slightly better residuals accumulatively it makes a difference you will notice in your pocket for not much difference in performance you can use every day.
That said, comparing a GTI to a GTD in performance terms isn't a great comparison.
A meaningful comparison would be to find out whether the GTD is the best Hot Diesel hatch at it's pricepoint. Most people buying a GTD are doing so in preference to other diesel competitors, not as a compromise to a GTI (although the huge improvement in fuel efficiency on the MK7 GTI does blur the lines a bit - a 55mpg ACT version of the GTI engine would be a GTD killer for me).
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All good points and you can add to them that for those leasing (depending on scheme) there is also possibility of additional C02 concessions (more ££ to spend) - Standard 3 door manual GTI at additional and high cost to me + BIK or my GTD 5 door DSG selection with all options listed below at zero cost aside from BIK to me.
So we all vary here in how we balance our selection be it private or lease - my selection was very easy as have plenty of other demands for my ££ elsewhere!
Actually thinking of selling our present 2nd car and getting a MKV GTI being here for a while at about £6-7k but the main car has to be an all rounder that wife will drive as regularly as me and will have regular passengers.
Think the performance aspect is getting underrated due to the GTI comparisons as my present 170BHP very much holds its own in day day driving with a ready surge of power/speed when needed and having to do regular lanes as rat runs to Motorways, I can vouch for fun factor there to :)
GTD will have more power, is lighter and if GTI reviews are anything to go by the handling is superb so I am expecting a pretty good experience performance wise as use my present as a guide (expecting GTD to better all round except maybe in wet)
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All good points and you can add to them that for those leasing (depending on scheme) there is also possibility of additional C02 concessions (more ££ to spend) - Standard 3 door manual GTI at additional and high cost to me + BIK or my GTD 5 door DSG selection with all options listed below at zero cost aside from BIK to me.
So we all vary here in how we balance our selection be it private or lease - my selection was very easy as have plenty of other demands for my ££ elsewhere!
Actually thinking of selling our present 2nd car and getting a MKV GTI being here for a while at about £6-7k but the main car has to be an all rounder that wife will drive as regularly as me and will have regular passengers.
Think the performance aspect is getting underrated due to the GTI comparisons as my present 170BHP very much holds its own in day day driving with a ready surge of power/speed when needed and having to do regular lanes as rat runs to Motorways, I can vouch for fun factor there to :)
GTD will have more power, is lighter and if GTI reviews are anything to go by the handling is superb so I am expecting a pretty good experience performance wise as use my present as a guide (expecting GTD to better all round except maybe in wet)
Mine is a company car - and yes, although the GTi is cheaper on the face of it, the BIK is a deal breaker, the GTD comes out a lot cheaper and thus why I chose the GTD - well, that coupled with the possible milage I may do :)
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Lots of people here have said GTI to GTD is not a good comparison – well in the context of buying a performance Golf it most certainly is.
We’re constantly having the CO2/cost of ownership/efficiency thing rammed down our necks these days by everyone from the government to the VW dealer, i.e. buy a diesel because you’ll save a few quid/polar bear. So if you’re looking at a performance Golf you are naturally going to ask “should I get petrol or diesel”. Comparing the two answers that.
For some (company car drivers, for example) the decision is easy, but for a private owner they might want to know if they are going to compromise the GTI experience by going diesel (and it is compromised, in several ways). Seeing a GTI/GTD comparison will tell them that, and whether those compromises are acceptable.
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polar bear
Woo! Yes save me save me! :laugh:
-ahem-
Sorry, carry on.
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Lots of people here have said GTI to GTD is not a good comparison – well in the context of buying a performance Golf it most certainly is.
Hmm... The problem with this argument is that on this basis you can criticise the entire Golf range. So I could write a review where I state I am after a "performance Golf" and then lay into the 1.2 Golf on the basis that in every aspect comparing it to the GTI it fails to beat the GTI as a "performance Golf". My example is extreme but the same applies to the GTD. Its not a pure performance machine designed to do the exact same job as the GTI, so comparing it to the GTI must be subject to some degree of moderation. I guess we here feel that moderation isn't adequately balanced in the majority of reviews.
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^^ All very true. I'm guilty of putting aside cost considerations in favour of all the other aspects. For me personally to save a thousand quid over a few years by having a diesel isn't worth the loss in performance, smoothness, sound, balance, handling etc.
So I guess I do criticise the whole Golf range as in terms of what I personally value, as they do not match up to the GTI. And I will be critical of the Mk7 R in the same way. Although some aspects of the R will be superior to the GTI, some will not.
For whatever reasons, the GTI is the benchmark by which all are measured. Hence the GTD comparisons.
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Lots of people here have said GTI to GTD is not a good comparison – well in the context of buying a performance Golf it most certainly is.
We’re constantly having the CO2/cost of ownership/efficiency thing rammed down our necks these days by everyone from the government to the VW dealer, i.e. buy a diesel because you’ll save a few quid/polar bear. So if you’re looking at a performance Golf you are naturally going to ask “should I get petrol or diesel”. Comparing the two answers that.
For some (company car drivers, for example) the decision is easy, but for a private owner they might want to know if they are going to compromise the GTI experience by going diesel (and it is compromised, in several ways). Seeing a GTI/GTD comparison will tell them that, and whether those compromises are acceptable.
My decision is based purely on being a company driver as I get a 5 door DSG loaded GTD at zero personal cost (due to C02 incentives) opposed to a base 3 door GTI at high personal cost - so you very right it was easy but If I was just buying private it would be GTI or R without question.
To use the GTI to run down the GTD performance is pretty lame journalism from reviews read/seen as that is not a direct comparison, the base engine numbers tell you that immediately, GTD is not being marketed as a hot hatch but as sport/quick diesel that gives its additional value in MPG not performance.
If just reviewed the GTD as a sport diesel then 7.5 seconds (likely quicker) and a wider torque delivery in the engine is not in hot hatch category but as pretty much shares everything else with GTI it will still handle great and be pretty quick! (present car is way heavier and with less power and is no slouch by any means)
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Whatever people say and think the gtd is still a hot hatch probably more so in the mk7. it will be less than 7.5 to 62 guaranteed and will be a great drive. one of the reviewers said that the gtd is more cerebral (I think that's what he said) than the gti and it will be. gti drivers are different to gtd drivers and want different things from cars but no matter how many journalists slag the gtd off saying it isn't a gti it's the only part of the review they seem to get right. Wait until someone sensible drives the gtd and then see what they say.
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Whatever people say and think the gtd is still a hot hatch probably more so in the mk7. it will be less than 7.5 to 62 guaranteed and will be a great drive. one of the reviewers said that the gtd is more cerebral (I think that's what he said) than the gti and it will be. gti drivers are different to gtd drivers and want different things from cars but no matter how many journalists slag the gtd off saying it isn't a gti it's the only part of the review they seem to get right. Wait until someone sensible drives the gtd and then see what they say.
Well said -but- we still might not like what they write :undecided:
It's very hard for us GTD bods (I'll speak for myself) to keep reading 5 out of 5 rave reviews for the GTI - while our future GTD is only getting 4 out of 5, or in some cases 3 out of 5 (Evo mag). That hurts. And if those reviews are accurate then we're buying an inferior car (compared to the GTI). Again that hurts.
We'll have to see but I'm sure it will be a really nice car.
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Well said -but- we still might not like what they write :undecided:
It's very hard for us GTD bods (I'll speak for myself) to keep reading 5 out of 5 rave reviews for the GTI - while our future GTD is only getting 4 out of 5, or in some cases 3 out of 5 (Evo mag). That hurts. And if those reviews are accurate then we're buying an inferior car (compared to the GTI). Again that hurts.
We'll have to see but I'm sure it will be a really nice car.
Trouble with these car mags, especially Evo, is that they're obsessed with speed. They can't get past it. So when you compare the two obviously the GTI comes out on top. But does that make it a better car than the GTD? No, of course not. You can't deny the consumption figures the GTD is getting, nor the value to company car drivers. The GTI can't compare with that. I think it looks like a cracking car, and if I was in the market for a diesel I wouldn't be looking any further than the GTD. Also, that Evo review starts comparing to the m135i - wtf, yeah if you want to spend another £10k - not comparable at all! And over 34 mpg consumption on the m135i - yeah right - utter b0llocks.
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Whatever people say and think the gtd is still a hot hatch probably more so in the mk7. it will be less than 7.5 to 62 guaranteed and will be a great drive. one of the reviewers said that the gtd is more cerebral (I think that's what he said) than the gti and it will be. gti drivers are different to gtd drivers and want different things from cars but no matter how many journalists slag the gtd off saying it isn't a gti it's the only part of the review they seem to get right. Wait until someone sensible drives the gtd and then see what they say.
Well said -but- we still might not like what they write :undecided:
It's very hard for us GTD bods (I'll speak for myself) to keep reading 5 out of 5 rave reviews for the GTI - while our future GTD is only getting 4 out of 5, or in some cases 3 out of 5 (Evo mag). That hurts. And if those reviews are accurate then we're buying an inferior car (compared to the GTI). Again that hurts.
We'll have to see but I'm sure it will be a really nice car.
I think that if you're expecting a hot diesel as opposed to outright 100% GTI performance with Diesel economy then you will not be disappointed. Coming from a 170TDI Scirocco and previously having had a 170TDI Golf MK5 I think I will be getting everything I hope for. It is probably the petrol to Diesel converts moving to a GTD who have the most potential for disappointment.
Most journalists who actually get their hands on both the GTI and GTD before putting pen to paper for comparisons will be diesel haters anyway. They will be hoying it around a track at speed (or blasting it on an autobahn at 2am) and tearing away from standing starts - something you just cannot do in everyday driving, so those extreme handling and performance differences won't even be of benefit for those that never take their car off the public roads, unless they are absolute nutters behind the wheel.
If got to test drive all kinds of exotic cars for a living then most of the real peoples cars would feel sh!te in comparison. Taking 3 year running costs into account (depreciation/fuel (based on achieving 90% of official combined figures) and tax disc costs) for 10k miles per annum, a basic GTD costs 17% less to run than a basic GTI. It's easy for the journalists to say the GTI is better, but they never seem to take value for money into account. People buy GTDs over GTIs to save significant money for nigh on the same experience on the open road. I actually prefer the power delivery of a high output TDI, if you drive it properly within the power band of the turbo, they can be seriously rapid on any incline. If you cock-up the timing of your gear changes and don't use the power band optimally (because you're not used to driving a diesel) then it's going to feel very sluggish in comparison. The TDIs have come on massively with the CR versions - the power band is much wider and the power delivery is much more linear than the 170TDI PD engine. A lot of diesel bashers still think of the late 80s/early 90s models which were very crude compared to what is out there right now.
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Whatever people say and think the gtd is still a hot hatch probably more so in the mk7. it will be less than 7.5 to 62 guaranteed and will be a great drive. one of the reviewers said that the gtd is more cerebral (I think that's what he said) than the gti and it will be. gti drivers are different to gtd drivers and want different things from cars but no matter how many journalists slag the gtd off saying it isn't a gti it's the only part of the review they seem to get right. Wait until someone sensible drives the gtd and then see what they say.
Well said -but- we still might not like what they write :undecided:
It's very hard for us GTD bods (I'll speak for myself) to keep reading 5 out of 5 rave reviews for the GTI - while our future GTD is only getting 4 out of 5, or in some cases 3 out of 5 (Evo mag). That hurts. And if those reviews are accurate then we're buying an inferior car (compared to the GTI). Again that hurts.
We'll have to see but I'm sure it will be a really nice car.
I think that if you're expecting a hot diesel as opposed to outright 100% GTI performance with Diesel economy then you will not be disappointed. Coming from a 170TDI Scirocco and previously having had a 170TDI Golf MK5 I think I will be getting everything I hope for. It is probably the petrol to Diesel converts moving to a GTD who have the most potential for disappointment.
Most journalists who actually get their hands on both the GTI and GTD before putting pen to paper for comparisons will be diesel haters anyway. They will be hoying it around a track at speed (or blasting it on an autobahn at 2am) and tearing away from standing starts - something you just cannot do in everyday driving, so those extreme handling and performance differences won't even be of benefit for those that never take their car off the public roads, unless they are absolute nutters behind the wheel.
If got to test drive all kinds of exotic cars for a living then most of the real peoples cars would feel sh!te in comparison. Taking 3 year running costs into account (depreciation/fuel (based on achieving 90% of official combined figures) and tax disc costs) for 10k miles per annum, a basic GTD costs 17% less to run than a basic GTI. It's easy for the journalists to say the GTI is better, but they never seem to take value for money into account. People buy GTDs over GTIs to save significant money for nigh on the same experience on the open road. I actually prefer the power delivery of a high output TDI, if you drive it properly within the power band of the turbo, they can be seriously rapid on any incline. If you cock-up the timing of your gear changes and don't use the power band optimally (because you're not used to driving a diesel) then it's going to feel very sluggish in comparison. The TDIs have come on massively with the CR versions - the power band is much wider and the power delivery is much more linear than the 170TDI PD engine. A lot of diesel bashers still think of the late 80s/early 90s models which were very crude compared to what is out there right now.
I think those of us in 170BHP CR at present are most comfortable of what is coming performance wise as our present experience is already excellent as we know these cars are genuinely quick with an always satisfying surge of power! :)
I certainly do not ever feel challenged in day to day driving, can make any manouvre readily with an instant surge of power and accelleration and when I push it down the lanes it is nothing short of fun even for quite a heavy car I still genuinely love this Audi now and think the GTD is going to better it.
And this present experience is in a far heavier car on the 8P platform with the Quattro, which as Haldex only really comes into full use in more adverse conditions - From GTI reviews the car handles amazingly and add in more BHP than I have now then I fail to see how it will not thrill me what it delivers in day to day conditions and maybe more so with the DSG when push it. :) I do expect the GTD to be a lot better than my A3 given the weight loss and handling
On a track and in a drag race from lights with a petrol hot hatch is only time would feel lost anything in compromise and I will never be on a track in this and times go head to head with a 6 second hatch comes around as regularly as a comet - In day to day driving conditions the 'point' second advantages for most part are negated as we all get around pretty much at same pace.
So anyone moving to a GTD do calm and listen to those who are driving 170BHP VW and Audi now as our real experience vouches to a very quick car that will bring lots of satisfaction every time drive it.
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As per mjh's post, but the weight issue keeps getting brought up (these journalists seem to be full of sh!te in the main). The effects are going to be negligible - there is a 26Kg difference between the GTI and GTD for same spec (same number of doors, same transmission etc), and a manual GTD weighs just 7kg more than a DSG GTI. For anyone that really feels it affects the handling, they must be having a moan about their compromised handling every time they get their groceries in from the supermarket, or single occupancy in the car - the weight of the driver must ruin the handling with the slightly off weight distribution without a passenger of equal weight to balance things out. :grin: :grin: :grin:
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As per mjh's post, but the weight issue keeps getting brought up (these journalists seem to be full of sh!te in the main). The effects are going to be negligible - there is a 26Kg difference between the GTI and GTD for same spec (same number of doors, same transmission etc), and a manual GTD weighs just 7kg more than a DSG GTI. For anyone that really feels it affects the handling, they must be having a moan about their compromised handling every time they get their groceries in from the supermarket, or single occupancy in the car - the weight of the driver must ruin the handling with the slightly off weight distribution without a passenger of equal weight to balance things out. :grin: :grin: :grin:
The weight issue between GTI and GTD is a complete non issue but anyone moving from the old platform to this lighter one and with added power too, you would imagine can only have an enhanced experience over an already great one they have now.
Personally my A3 is noticeably heavy and with Quattro more so but I am used to a planted on rails experience - I am expecting the difference with weight to provide me with a much lighter more agile experience PLUS improved ride as a bonus!! moving from S Line ride is going to be one huge uplift I suspect for me
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mjh: For personally I can see noticeable weight differences, being bogged down with Quattro, but for the higher Golf models the weight reductions of "up to 100kg" has resulted in about 30kg reduction over the old Golf. My manual 170TDI Scirocco is only 18kg heavier than the manual MK7 GTD. I doubt i'll even notice it.
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mjh: For personally I can see noticeable weight differences, being bogged down with Quattro, but for the higher Golf models the weight reductions of "up to 100kg" has resulted in about 30kg reduction over the old Golf. My manual 170TDI Scirocco is only 18kg heavier than the manual MK7 GTD. I doubt i'll even notice it.
When get mine and review think the one who will have a real interest in it would be those looking to switch from A3 as bigger difference
Even in this review below the previous GTD edges my present A3 so more support to the MK7 being an upgraded experience over an already great one :) Though the 8V is also getting good reviews too just shame most of spec & options getting on GTD would have been left on list still unticked!
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/14187/vw-golf-gtd-vs-audi-a3-tdi (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/14187/vw-golf-gtd-vs-audi-a3-tdi)
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mjh: For personally I can see noticeable weight differences, being bogged down with Quattro, but for the higher Golf models the weight reductions of "up to 100kg" has resulted in about 30kg reduction over the old Golf. My manual 170TDI Scirocco is only 18kg heavier than the manual MK7 GTD. I doubt i'll even notice it.
For company car drivers where BIK is critical, stick with the GTD
For people that like diesel delivery (and economy), stick with the GTD
For private buyers still wavering and waiting for a UK demonstrator, I give you the Seat Leon FR 1.8 180PS, £18.500 with tech pack amongst the many alternatives.
It might be possible to notice the 70Kg weight saving.