Dissapointing GTD Reviews

[mac7]

Lots of people here have said GTI to GTD is not a good comparison – well in the context of buying a performance Golf it most certainly is.

We’re constantly having the CO2/cost of ownership/efficiency thing rammed down our necks these days by everyone from the government to the VW dealer, i.e. buy a diesel because you’ll save a few quid/polar bear. So if you’re looking at a performance Golf you are naturally going to ask “should I get petrol or diesel”. Comparing the two answers that.

For some (company car drivers, for example) the decision is easy, but for a private owner they might want to know if they are going to compromise the GTI experience by going diesel (and it is compromised, in several ways). Seeing a GTI/GTD comparison will tell them that, and whether those compromises are acceptable.

[Bill_the_Bear]

polar bear

Woo! Yes save me save me!

-ahem-

Sorry, carry on.

[Bill_the_Bear]

Lots of people here have said GTI to GTD is not a good comparison – well in the context of buying a performance Golf it most certainly is.

Hmm... The problem with this argument is that on this basis you can criticise the entire Golf range.  So I could write a review where I state I am after a "performance Golf" and then lay into the 1.2 Golf on the basis that in every aspect comparing it to the GTI it fails to beat the GTI as a "performance Golf".  My example is extreme but the same applies to the GTD.  Its not a pure performance machine designed to do the exact same job as the GTI, so comparing it to the GTI must be subject to some degree of moderation.  I guess we here feel that moderation isn't adequately balanced in the majority of reviews.

[mac7]

^^ All very true. I'm guilty of putting aside cost considerations in favour of all the other aspects. For me personally to save a thousand quid over a few years by having a diesel isn't worth the loss in performance, smoothness, sound, balance, handling etc.

So I guess I do criticise the whole Golf range as in terms of what I personally value, as they do not match up to the GTI. And I will be critical of the Mk7 R in the same way. Although some aspects of the R will be superior to the GTI, some will not.

For whatever reasons, the GTI is the benchmark by which all are measured. Hence the GTD comparisons.

[mjh_056]

Lots of people here have said GTI to GTD is not a good comparison – well in the context of buying a performance Golf it most certainly is.

We’re constantly having the CO2/cost of ownership/efficiency thing rammed down our necks these days by everyone from the government to the VW dealer, i.e. buy a diesel because you’ll save a few quid/polar bear. So if you’re looking at a performance Golf you are naturally going to ask “should I get petrol or diesel”. Comparing the two answers that.

For some (company car drivers, for example) the decision is easy, but for a private owner they might want to know if they are going to compromise the GTI experience by going diesel (and it is compromised, in several ways). Seeing a GTI/GTD comparison will tell them that, and whether those compromises are acceptable.

My decision is based purely on being a company driver as I get a 5 door DSG loaded GTD at zero personal cost (due to C02 incentives) opposed to a base 3 door GTI at high personal cost - so you very right it was easy but If I was just buying private it would be GTI or R without question.

To use the GTI to run down the GTD performance is pretty lame journalism from reviews read/seen as that is not a direct comparison, the base engine numbers tell you that immediately, GTD is not being marketed as a hot hatch but as sport/quick diesel that gives its additional value in MPG not performance.

If just reviewed the GTD as a sport diesel then 7.5 seconds (likely quicker) and a wider torque delivery in the engine is not in hot hatch category but as pretty much shares everything else with GTI it will still handle great and be pretty quick! (present car is way heavier and with less power and is no slouch by any means)

[mcmaddy]

Whatever people say and think the gtd is still a hot hatch probably more so in the mk7. it will be less than 7.5 to 62 guaranteed and will be a great drive. one of the reviewers said that the gtd is more cerebral (I think that's what he said) than the gti and it will be. gti drivers are different to gtd drivers and want different things from cars but no matter how many journalists slag the gtd off saying it isn't a gti it's the only part of the review they seem to get right. Wait until someone sensible drives the gtd and then see what they say.

[Hawaii-Five-O]

Whatever people say and think the gtd is still a hot hatch probably more so in the mk7. it will be less than 7.5 to 62 guaranteed and will be a great drive. one of the reviewers said that the gtd is more cerebral (I think that's what he said) than the gti and it will be. gti drivers are different to gtd drivers and want different things from cars but no matter how many journalists slag the gtd off saying it isn't a gti it's the only part of the review they seem to get right. Wait until someone sensible drives the gtd and then see what they say.

Well said -but- we still might not like what they write

It's very hard for us GTD bods (I'll speak for myself) to keep reading 5 out of 5 rave reviews for the GTI - while our future GTD is only getting 4 out of 5, or in some cases 3 out of 5 (Evo mag). That hurts. And if those reviews are accurate then we're buying an inferior car (compared to the GTI). Again that hurts.

We'll have to see but I'm sure it will be a really nice car.

[matchboy]

Well said -but- we still might not like what they write

It's very hard for us GTD bods (I'll speak for myself) to keep reading 5 out of 5 rave reviews for the GTI - while our future GTD is only getting 4 out of 5, or in some cases 3 out of 5 (Evo mag). That hurts. And if those reviews are accurate then we're buying an inferior car (compared to the GTI). Again that hurts.

We'll have to see but I'm sure it will be a really nice car.

Trouble with these car mags, especially Evo, is that they're obsessed with speed.  They can't get past it.  So when you compare the two obviously the GTI comes out on top.  But does that make it a better car than the GTD?  No, of course not.  You can't deny the consumption figures the GTD is getting, nor the value to company car drivers.  The GTI can't compare with that.  I think it looks like a cracking car, and if I was in the market for a diesel I wouldn't be looking any further than the GTD.  Also, that Evo review starts comparing to the m135i - wtf, yeah if you want to spend another £10k - not comparable at all!  And over 34 mpg consumption on the m135i - yeah right - utter b0llocks.

[monkeyhanger]

Whatever people say and think the gtd is still a hot hatch probably more so in the mk7. it will be less than 7.5 to 62 guaranteed and will be a great drive. one of the reviewers said that the gtd is more cerebral (I think that's what he said) than the gti and it will be. gti drivers are different to gtd drivers and want different things from cars but no matter how many journalists slag the gtd off saying it isn't a gti it's the only part of the review they seem to get right. Wait until someone sensible drives the gtd and then see what they say.

Well said -but- we still might not like what they write

It's very hard for us GTD bods (I'll speak for myself) to keep reading 5 out of 5 rave reviews for the GTI - while our future GTD is only getting 4 out of 5, or in some cases 3 out of 5 (Evo mag). That hurts. And if those reviews are accurate then we're buying an inferior car (compared to the GTI). Again that hurts.

We'll have to see but I'm sure it will be a really nice car.

I think that if you're expecting a hot diesel as opposed to outright 100% GTI performance with Diesel economy then you will not be disappointed. Coming from a 170TDI Scirocco and previously having had a 170TDI Golf MK5 I think I will be getting everything I hope for. It is probably the petrol to Diesel converts moving to a GTD who have the most potential for disappointment.

Most journalists who actually get their hands on both the GTI and GTD before putting pen to paper for comparisons will be diesel haters anyway. They will be hoying it around a track at speed (or blasting it on an autobahn at 2am) and tearing away from standing starts - something you just cannot do in everyday driving, so those extreme handling and performance differences won't even be of benefit for those that never take their car off the public roads, unless they are absolute nutters behind the wheel.

If got to test drive all kinds of exotic cars for a living then most of the real peoples cars would feel sh!te in comparison. Taking 3 year running costs into account (depreciation/fuel (based on achieving 90% of official combined figures) and tax disc costs) for 10k miles per annum, a basic GTD costs 17% less to run than a basic GTI. It's easy for the journalists to say the GTI is better, but they never seem to take value for money into account. People buy GTDs over GTIs to save significant money for nigh on the same experience on the open road. I actually prefer the power delivery of a high output TDI, if you drive it properly within the power band of the turbo, they can be seriously rapid on any incline. If you cock-up the timing of your gear changes and don't use the power band optimally (because you're not used to driving a diesel) then it's going to feel very sluggish in comparison. The TDIs have come on massively with the CR versions - the power band is much wider and the power delivery is much more linear than the 170TDI PD engine. A lot of diesel bashers still think of the late 80s/early 90s models which were very crude compared to what is out there right now.

[mjh_056]

Whatever people say and think the gtd is still a hot hatch probably more so in the mk7. it will be less than 7.5 to 62 guaranteed and will be a great drive. one of the reviewers said that the gtd is more cerebral (I think that's what he said) than the gti and it will be. gti drivers are different to gtd drivers and want different things from cars but no matter how many journalists slag the gtd off saying it isn't a gti it's the only part of the review they seem to get right. Wait until someone sensible drives the gtd and then see what they say.

Well said -but- we still might not like what they write

It's very hard for us GTD bods (I'll speak for myself) to keep reading 5 out of 5 rave reviews for the GTI - while our future GTD is only getting 4 out of 5, or in some cases 3 out of 5 (Evo mag). That hurts. And if those reviews are accurate then we're buying an inferior car (compared to the GTI). Again that hurts.

We'll have to see but I'm sure it will be a really nice car.

I think that if you're expecting a hot diesel as opposed to outright 100% GTI performance with Diesel economy then you will not be disappointed. Coming from a 170TDI Scirocco and previously having had a 170TDI Golf MK5 I think I will be getting everything I hope for. It is probably the petrol to Diesel converts moving to a GTD who have the most potential for disappointment.

Most journalists who actually get their hands on both the GTI and GTD before putting pen to paper for comparisons will be diesel haters anyway. They will be hoying it around a track at speed (or blasting it on an autobahn at 2am) and tearing away from standing starts - something you just cannot do in everyday driving, so those extreme handling and performance differences won't even be of benefit for those that never take their car off the public roads, unless they are absolute nutters behind the wheel.

If got to test drive all kinds of exotic cars for a living then most of the real peoples cars would feel sh!te in comparison. Taking 3 year running costs into account (depreciation/fuel (based on achieving 90% of official combined figures) and tax disc costs) for 10k miles per annum, a basic GTD costs 17% less to run than a basic GTI. It's easy for the journalists to say the GTI is better, but they never seem to take value for money into account. People buy GTDs over GTIs to save significant money for nigh on the same experience on the open road. I actually prefer the power delivery of a high output TDI, if you drive it properly within the power band of the turbo, they can be seriously rapid on any incline. If you cock-up the timing of your gear changes and don't use the power band optimally (because you're not used to driving a diesel) then it's going to feel very sluggish in comparison. The TDIs have come on massively with the CR versions - the power band is much wider and the power delivery is much more linear than the 170TDI PD engine. A lot of diesel bashers still think of the late 80s/early 90s models which were very crude compared to what is out there right now.

I think those of us in 170BHP CR at present are most comfortable of what is coming performance wise as our present experience is already excellent as we know these cars are genuinely quick with an always satisfying surge of power!

I certainly do not ever feel challenged in day to day driving, can make any manouvre readily with an instant surge of power and accelleration and when I push it down the lanes it is nothing short of fun even for quite a heavy car I still genuinely love this Audi now and think the GTD is going to better it.

And this present experience is in a far heavier car on the 8P platform with the Quattro, which as Haldex only really comes into full use in more adverse conditions - From GTI reviews the car handles amazingly and add in more BHP than I have now then I fail to see how it will not thrill me what it delivers in day to day conditions and maybe more so with the DSG when push it. I do expect the GTD to be a lot better than my A3 given the weight loss and handling

On a track and in a drag race from lights with a petrol hot hatch is only time would feel lost anything in compromise and I will never be on a track in this and times go head to head with a 6 second hatch comes around as regularly as a comet - In day to day driving conditions the 'point' second advantages for most part are negated as we all get around pretty much at same pace.

So anyone moving to a GTD do calm and listen to those who are driving 170BHP VW and Audi now as our real experience vouches to a very quick car that will bring lots of satisfaction every time drive it.