GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: littlejon on 11 April 2013, 12:09
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Hi All,
I have been an avid reader of this forum for over 2 years now and I need a bit of advice. Last week the engine malfunction light came on. I took it into a garage and the computer suggested there was incorrect correlation between the camshaft position sensor and engine speed sensor. The garage (vw specialist not main dealer as my gti is out of warranty by 8 months) suggested going into a main dealer as there may be a software problem. Speaking to the main dealer they didnt seem to bothered and suggested putting it in the week after. I drove the car again 2 days later and when parking up at home the engine didnt sound right in park (DSG) so I decided to book it in for the next monday am for an earlier look and didnt drive the car all weekend to ensure no further damage was done. Come monday morning the car wouldnt start and I had to be towed to the garage.
I had a phone call later that day saying there was a major problem and the only way to see what was wrong was to do a full engine strip costing 800 quid. I had no choice as the car wouldnt start. They said they needed the car for up to 2 weeks to do this and there is a possibility it may need a new engine. They had rung the warranty people who provisionally said if this was the case they would probably pay 100% parts and 30% labour.
It as a 59 Gti with 50 000 on the clock which has been well looked after and no previous problems. I cannot understand how it could need a new engine at this stage? The garage is currently doing the strip down and I am waiting to hear today. Has anyone heard of similar problems? Has anyone any advice as to how to approach this. Its already going to be expensive and thats before they have even told me whats wrong with it.
Sad times! :embarrassed: Thanks. Jon
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Ouch! :cry: I hope you get this sorted out mate, keep us informed
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I take it you checked the oil regularly and it had plenty in?
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Ouch! :cry: I hope you get this sorted out mate, keep us informed
+1 I just hope they keep to there word about the costs....
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Jon,
Could you xpand on 'wouldn't start'?
as in would it:
crank over as normal but not fire,
crank but oddly very smooth & quiet,
just make a clicking noise & not crank at all,
not do anything when you tried the key/button
??
^ the above may help filter out some experiences by others that are unrelated faults, & aid more knowledgable folk to assist
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Also:
Did you have the engine management light up only, or STOP in big letters on the DIS?
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Thanks for the replies so far. Yes to oil topped up.
On the monday when it wouldn't start, it turned over and it would fire up occasionally (but not every time). Pumping the accelerator would keep it on briefly but as soon as I removed my foot from the pedal, it would just cut out.
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The light came on permanently (not flashing). There was no information in the centre display like sometimes happens. Manual said to drive to nearest garage which I did and the rest is as described.
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If it's been serviced, was topped up with oil and you booked it in as soon as the light came on, I'd say you'd be in a good position with VW.
They should cover a huge chunk of the cost under 'goodwill'.
I think the 'norm' is 50:50 on the labour bill...so dig your heels in there!
Sadly, the only way to know what's gone wrong, is to strip it down, if the diagnostic tested doesn't show the cause.
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Could this be another case of lower chain tensioner failure perhaps? Symptoms sound familiar...
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Could this be another case of lower chain tensioner failure perhaps? Symptoms sound familiar...
That was my first thought, hence the question regarding the oil level.
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Lower chain tensioner? Just found the previous thread on this. Thanks. Will see what the dealer says and take it from there. Thanks
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You guys were right. Lower chain tensioner. Apparently a new engine. Discussions with VW warranty tomorrow but going to fight hard for them to pay for most of this since it appears to be a known problem.
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You guys were right. Lower chain tensioner. Apparently a new engine. Discussions with VW warranty tomorrow but going to fight hard for them to pay for most of this since it appears to be a known problem.
Wouldn't be surprised if the dealership was aware of any issue at all...
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Another one died because a poorly designed chain tensioner. :cry:
I'm guessing you have read all my links to the american forum on this issue.
:lipsrsealed:
It's nothing to do with oil level or oil quantity.
It's a rachet on the chain tensioner fails,
The car rests overnight etc.
You go start the car
There's little to no tension on the chain
The chain slips jumps a few teeth before the car starts
The car starts, the oil pressure rises and the chain now tensions
The chain timing is now a couple teeth out.
Ecu compensates by changing cam timing.
Car runs but badly.
Engine gets damaged, valves, pistons, etc due to collision.
Bad tensioner design its been updated a few times.
Bad Ecu programming allowing the car to run or be turned over.
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Yeah, I have gone through all of them. I'm hoping they'll give me a decent 'good will' offer as I have had all my servicing and work done through the same dealer. We shall see... :cry:
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Yeah, I have gone through all of them. I'm hoping they'll give me a decent 'good will' offer as I have had all my servicing and work done through the same dealer. We shall see... :cry:
Good luck with VWCS, I've had nothing but trouble with them. The good will gesture depends on your 'loyalty to the brand' as I was told, absolute joke. Hope you have better luck with them than I did
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With you having all your servicing done at the dealership, i would say that you have a really good chance at getting a good will gesture on this,
Really feel for ya mate this should not happen on such a modern engine :angry:
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Thanks for the help guys. I'm relatively hopeful after what they've been saying to me to get a pretty significant contribution. Apparently will find out on monday.
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Thanks for the help guys. I'm relatively hopeful after what they've been saying to me to get a pretty significant contribution. Apparently will find out on monday.
Keep us up dated as to how you get on. I hope they do look after you and you get sorted out :smiley:
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Just being nosey ! How did U get on getting car fixed ?
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Great news. Ive got her back with new engine. They contributed 100% parts and 30% labour and so cost me 1000 quid. It needed a service now anyway which was included and so not too bad in the end. Engine is on warranty for 2 years. Had a go at them too as their attempt at washing it was so poor they fixed the broken parcel shelf and gave me the insurance costs for the first 2 days that my insurance didnt cover the courtesy car. So glad to get rid of that Up! thing. It was an automatic and changed gear like a learner driver. Was so nice being back in the gti. :cool: :smiley:
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Result :smiley:
Glad it got sorted mate
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Glad it is sorted new engine means new car :smiley:
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Glad all turned out well...
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Glad its fixed but a your a £1000+ out of pocket due to a poorly designed, poorly tested, not fit for purpose engine part.
:angry:
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Is there anything that can be done to stop this happening, is it pot luck if it fails?
I've read through some of the other posts about parts from America? are these a guaranteed fix.
Off topic a bit but is it worth taking out the VW warranty to cover this sort of failure
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Glad its fixed but a your a £1000+ out of pocket due to a poorly designed, poorly tested, not fit for purpose engine part.
:angry:
I agree, glad its all sorted but you are £1k out of pocket for something that is completely not your fault :shocked:
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Have to agree with the others here. You are out of pocket for something VW should really be paying 100% for.
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1k for new engine is top i'd be well chuffed :wink:
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Is there anything that can be done to stop this happening, is it pot luck if it fails?
I've read through some of the other posts about parts from America? are these a guaranteed fix.
Off topic a bit but is it worth taking out the VW warranty to cover this sort of failure
You don't need to buy any parts from the usa
All parts are available from vw dealers or tps
The parts have the same part numbers
All that's needed is the revised tensioner, new lower camchain cover, sealer for the the cover, new bolts,
Only difference is the Americans do it as a kit.
Basically there has been a few revisions of the tensioner basically as its ratchet system that it falls back on when the car is not running is not strong enough. When its teeth fail all tension is released from the chain. The chain slip as you try and start the car as there is no tension. The tensioner then gets oil pressure, tensions up due to the presure. The engine then plays with the camshaft timing to try and keep the car running. Pistons meet valves and damage pistons bending and mashing as they go.
The revised tensioner from last year is much better. 95% of cars that ate failing are 2009 or early 2010 as there was a revision to the tensioner in the middle of 2010 due to the original one been so rubbish. VW know its an on going issue but there policy is simply to replace engines if and when they go bang how long thats the policy is a good question.
I'm going to replace mine with the revised version next year as if the car had a cambelt that would have been.changed at 4 years old anyway so the expense of fitting the new tensioner will be less than a cambelt change would have been. Plus I simy have no time this year to do it.
Until then I cross my fingers everytime I start the car and took out vw forth year warrenty.
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Great news. Ive got her back with new engine. They contributed 100% parts and 30% labour and so cost me 1000 quid. It needed a service now anyway which was included and so not too bad in the end. Engine is on warranty for 2 years. Had a go at them too as their attempt at washing it was so poor they fixed the broken parcel shelf and gave me the insurance costs for the first 2 days that my insurance didnt cover the courtesy car. So glad to get rid of that Up! thing. It was an automatic and changed gear like a learner driver. Was so nice being back in the gti. :cool: :smiley:
Glad you got your car sorted but making you pay 70% towards the overcharged labour costs on something that you had no control over and quite frankly shouldn't be happening is disgusting
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Is there anything that can be done to stop this happening, is it pot luck if it fails?
I've read through some of the other posts about parts from America? are these a guaranteed fix.
Off topic a bit but is it worth taking out the VW warranty to cover this sort of failure
You don't need to buy any parts from the usa
All parts are available from vw dealers or tps
The parts have the same part numbers
All that's needed is the revised tensioner, new lower camchain cover, sealer for the the cover, new bolts,
Only difference is the Americans do it as a kit.
Basically there has been a few revisions of the tensioner basically as its ratchet system that it falls back on when the car is not running is not strong enough. When its teeth fail all tension is released from the chain. The chain slip as you try and start the car as there is no tension. The tensioner then gets oil pressure, tensions up due to the presure. The engine then plays with the camshaft timing to try and keep the car running. Pistons meet valves and damage pistons bending and mashing as they go.
The revised tensioner from last year is much better. 95% of cars that ate failing are 2009 or early 2010 as there was a revision to the tensioner in the middle of 2010 due to the original one been so rubbish. VW know its an on going issue but there policy is simply to replace engines if and when they go bang how long thats the policy is a good question.
I'm going to replace mine with the revised version next year as if the car had a cambelt that would have been.changed at 4 years old anyway so the expense of fitting the new tensioner will be less than a cambelt change would have been. Plus I simy have no time this year to do it.
Until then I cross my fingers everytime I start the car and took out vw forth year warrenty.
Thanks for that Snoopy. Has anyone priced the job up before? Would the local main dealer know what I was on about or would I be met with vacant looks? I see you're in Durham which dealers do you recommend uphere?
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This has me worried too since mine is a July 2009 model. If this upgrade is reasonable money I'd like to get it done as a sort of insurance policy. A couple of hundred quid or whatever is still cheaper than a grand!
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I agree that 1000 quid is expensive for something that to me shouldnt happen. However since it was out of warranty it made it trickier to negotiate.
By the way darren, I went to lookers in darlington as its near where i work. I normally went to lookers teesside and they have been ok in the past. My wife has used pulman in durham before and they were quite good too. It appears that this is well known about from the dealers perspective as before they had even done a diagnostic they suggested it may need a new engine.
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Another member on here I've met has had poor service from both pulman dealerships and I hear too many poor reports about them from trade sources. I have had hit and miss experiences with Benfield scotswood road I've used them about a dozen times in the past 3 years. I have also used benfield silverlink a couple of times for jobs on our other vw products, no bad experience there apart from they washed the car with something that stipped all the protection waxes it had on and made the paint work look like it had been attacked with a brillo pad..
Never let them wash a car of ours since but the repairs were done as expected.
There are a.few vw specialists In Durham take a copy of how its done to them and I'm sure they can price it up.
It's no worse than doing a timing belt if anything its simpler
Cost wise if you get the part numbers of the latest tensioner and cover off the USA site and price them up at a dealer I cannot see it been more than an hour at the max two labour. Maybe it tells you the alloted time on the elsawin system or the American site.
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Thanks for the replies lads, and sorry again Littlejon for the thread hijack.
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I'm so glad I've read this thread.
My GTI has just been diagnosed with the EXACT same problem. It's a Sept 2009 with 44k miles on the clock.
I'm now left with a bunch of bent valves and shrapnel throughout the engine. How did you go about raising it with VW?
It's out of warranty by about 9 months. It has a FSH with the main VW dealer in my area and I bought it from them. Needless to say I don't fancy a £6000 bill for a new engine plus fitting/extra parts so I'm really hoping that VW pick up the tab here. :angry:
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:angry: not another one :angry:
Get in touch with VWCS and raise your concerns with them bud
If the dealer hasn't already contacted them ?
I always change my oil every 5k but makes we wonder if I should get the new style tensioner fitted, coming up to 4 years old and 50k on the clock, is this issue a ticking bomb :rolleyes: :sad:
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:angry: not another one :angry:
Get in touch with VWCS and raise your concerns with them bud
If the dealer hasn't already contacted them ?
I always change my oil every 5k but makes we wonder if I should get the new style tensioner fitted, coming up to 4 years old and 50k on the clock, is this issue a ticking bomb :rolleyes: :sad:
YES
Oil makes no difference. If you read my previous post it explains what happens.
Its simply down to a poor tensioner design.
When you turn off your engine the oil pressure drops.
Leave the car a while overnight for example
The oil pressure drops and the tensioner falls back onto its ratchet its that that fails.
Etc I expained what happens next earlier in the thread.
Its a ticking time bomb thats a very weak link that destroys engines.
It could also strand you somewere as the car may not start at all...
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:angry: not another one :angry:
Get in touch with VWCS and raise your concerns with them bud
If the dealer hasn't already contacted them ?
I always change my oil every 5k but makes we wonder if I should get the new style tensioner fitted, coming up to 4 years old and 50k on the clock, is this issue a ticking bomb :rolleyes: :sad:
YES
Oil makes no difference. If you read my previous post it explains what happens.
Its simply down to a poor tensioner design.
When you turn off your engine the oil pressure drops.
Leave the car a while overnight for example
The oil pressure drops and the tensioner falls back onto its ratchet its that that fails.
Etc I expained what happens next earlier in the thread.
Its a ticking time bomb thats a very weak link that destroys engines.
Thanks for the info Snoops
Car is in on Wednesday to get some work done so I think I will get the new tensioner fitted for piece of mind, any idea of the latest version or is aftermarket a better option ? Do you think
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Mine was parked up overnight and when I returned in the morning to start it, clunk clunk clunk, fired up, clunk clunk clunk, died.
What makes it more annoying is that it was in for a service FOUR DAYS before this :whistle:
I haven't had an opportunity to contact VW yet, but will do so on Monday. I'm just popping the rocker cover back on the engine again so it appears I know nothing.
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Mine was parked up overnight and when I returned in the morning to start it, clunk clunk clunk, fired up, clunk clunk clunk, died.
What makes it more annoying is that it was in for a service FOUR DAYS before this :whistle:
I haven't had an opportunity to contact VW yet, but will do so on Monday. I'm just popping the rocker cover back on the engine again so it appears I know nothing.
is it DSG or Manual....does it make a difference. Mine is 2010 (59 Plate) thinking i should look into getting it replaced. what the cost?
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The engine? :cry:
Mine's a 6sp manual
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Mine was parked up overnight and when I returned in the morning to start it, clunk clunk clunk, fired up, clunk clunk clunk, died.
What makes it more annoying is that it was in for a service FOUR DAYS before this :whistle:
I haven't had an opportunity to contact VW yet, but will do so on Monday. I'm just popping the rocker cover back on the engine again so it appears I know nothing.
is it DSG or Manual....does it make a difference. Mine is 2010 (59 Plate) thinking i should look into getting it replaced. what the cost?
Makes no difference. It is the chain timing chain tensioner on the engine.
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lot of the americans are buying it as a kit to fit
http://www.hstuning.com/product_info.php?products_id=3619
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Some workshop pages I scanned from Elsawin if you want to give it a go :shocked: :shocked:
The tensioner is shown in this procedure.
Removing and Installing the Lower Timing Chain Cover (http://www.thewindinglane.co.uk/images/mk6gti/elsawin/timingChain/Removing and installing lower timing chain cover.pdf)
Removing and Installing the timing Chain (http://www.thewindinglane.co.uk/images/mk6gti/elsawin/timingChain/Removing and installing camshaft timing chain.pdf)
Shows the workshop procedure.
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lot of the americans are buying it as a kit to fit
http://www.hstuning.com/product_info.php?products_id=3619
Not a bad price but how many hours labour is it to fit?
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The americans saybit takes about 45 mins to do thw job.
Heres the part that is causing everyone a pain in the
Here are some pictures of the old style and new style tensioner. We have been putting the new style in engines when we are installing rods since the new style was released. The older style has a ratcheting return
(http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/HSTuning/Tensioner1.jpg)
(http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/HSTuning/Tensioner3.jpg)
(http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/HSTuning/Tensioner4.jpg)
(http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/HSTuning/Tensioner5.jpg)
(http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/HSTuning/Tensioner2.jpg)
(http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/HSTuning/Tensioner6.jpg)
You can see the ratcheting mechanism in the last picture. The retainer for that is junk and it's pretty obvious why they fail. This is the only old style we have laying around as we usually throw them right into the recycle bin, and the retainer is missing. If I can find another old style we'll make a video to show how it fails, as we have a TSI on an engine stand right now.
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What do we reckon the chances of VW doing something about it are?
I'm happy to put some % of the cost to the labour, but as it's their faulty, poorly designed part that has caused the engine to break surely they should be putting up for a new one?
Has anyone else had joy from VW with this respect, aside from the thread starter? I'm on my phone so search is a pain - thanks :D
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Vw policy is if it does jot fail its not an issue :undecided: they are reactive rather than proactive.
This is why a lot of tsi 1.4 AND 2.0 are getting new engines.
They did not want to know when I asked anout a proactive responce to a design issue.
Oh and I just found a diy guide to how to do it. I know what im doing over winter when mines off the road.
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992
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Vw policy is if it does jot fail its not an issue :undecided: they are reactive rather than proactive.
This is why a lot of tsi 1.4 AND 2.0 are getting new engines.
They did not want to know when I asked anout a proactive responce to a design issue.
Oh and I just found a diy guide to how to do it. I know what im doing over winter when mines off the road.
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992
Im not attempting that myself, ill ring statllers on Monday, do you need to replace with the whole kit or you just but that single part?
When did they start fitting the new timing chain part? late 2010?
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Last revision of the part I known of was late 2012 there was other revisions previously.
1x TENSIONER 06K109467K
15x BOLT timing case cover bolts N91096702
1x Crank pulley center bolt WHT001760
1x SEALANT D174003A2
1x TIMINGCASE cover 06H109210Q
New Engine mounting bolts
The bolts are really only one time use so best to replace them.
The cover is thin tin and so can bend when been removed so is best to replace it with a new one than risk oil leaks or even worse thw case rubbing on something internally. You also get a new crank seal with the new case.
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Mine is a 59 plate and has just hit 50,000 mies, better look into this myself as well :sad:
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I have a 29,000 mile May 2010 car & this thread worries me! However, I'm sure that if I go into my local dealer whose principal is a good friend, they will not have even heard of this issue! I've just had some warranty work done before the 3 year deadline, but remember him saying there is a 3 month grace period where they will carry out work after the end of the3 years! Tempted to see what they say.
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Last revision of the part I known of was late 2012 there was other revisions previously.
1x TENSIONER 06K109467K
15x BOLT timing case cover bolts N91096702
1x Crank pulley center bolt WHT001760
1x SEALANT D174003A2
1x TIMINGCASE cover 06H109210Q
New Engine mounting bolts
The bolts are really only one time use so best to replace them.
The cover is thin tin and so can bend when been removed so is best to replace it with a new one than risk oil leaks or even worse thw case rubbing on something internally. You also get a new crank seal with the new case.
Snoopy, as you say the last revision was sometime late 2012, am I safe to assume that my 62 plate will have the latest revised version?
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From what ive read and ive read up on this extensively since I found out about it a while back and then watched a few cars on here fail.
The worst are 2009 to around may 2010 cars when there was a revised tensioner fitted which was stronger. There was a couple other rivised better versions after that. Even the 2012 one is not bullet proof.
When I was researching there was very few 2011 cars that had been effected. Were as I kept finding one after another earlier cars. I then concluded the later cars have a much stronger tensioner design which was backed up by data of revised versions on etka.. As its not miles that ware it its stop--rest--start were the ratchet is used to hold the tension.
In all honesty if I owned a mid 2011 or later car I would not be worried.
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From what ive read and ive read up on this extensively since I found out about it a while back and then watched a few cars on here fail.
The worst are 2009 to around may 2010 cars when there was a revised tensioner fitted which was stronger. There was a couple other rivised better versions after that. Even the 2012 one is not bullet proof.
When I was researching there was very few 2011 cars that had been effected. Were as I kept finding one after another earlier cars. I then concluded the later cars have a much stronger tensioner design which was backed up by data of revised versions on etka.. As its not miles that ware it its stop--rest--start were the ratchet is used to hold the tension.
In all honesty if I owned a mid 2011 or later car I would not be worried.
Reassuring, cheers for that info. :smiley:
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Last revision of the part I known of was late 2012 there was other revisions previously.
1x TENSIONER 06K109467K
15x BOLT timing case cover bolts N91096702
1x Crank pulley center bolt WHT001760
1x SEALANT D174003A2
1x TIMINGCASE cover 06H109210Q
New Engine mounting bolts
The bolts are really only one time use so best to replace them.
The cover is thin tin and so can bend when been removed so is best to replace it with a new one than risk oil leaks or even worse thw case rubbing on something internally. You also get a new crank seal with the new case.
Snoopy, as you say the last revision was sometime late 2012, am I safe to assume that my 62 plate will have the latest revised version?
Hope so, mine is a 62 plate too
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Just pulled this off vwvortex:
TSB number 15-12-01
and when looked up via this link does not give me much relief as it applies to cars from 09 to 2013!!!
http://www.aboutautomobile.com/TSB/2012/Volkswagen/GTI/Others
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Good news.
VW are taking it in for "diagnostic" at £56 charge.
I know VAGCOM reads clean, no errors, so it's a bit of a wasted expense on my part. They'll sh!t themselves when the rocker cover is opened up though, cams at all angles.
Have to get it towed there myself, they wouldnt pay for that :rolleyes:
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Hope you get it sorted without too much hassle - for free? Keep us updated. You have a TSB number to quote at the dealers from my last post on this theme.
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Good news.
VW are taking it in for "diagnostic" at £56 charge.
I know VAGCOM reads clean, no errors, so it's a bit of a wasted expense on my part. They'll sh!t themselves when the rocker cover is opened up though, cams at all angles.
Have to get it towed there myself, they wouldnt pay for that :rolleyes:
Good luck and let us know how you get on with it all
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Good news.
VW are taking it in for "diagnostic" at £56 charge.
I know VAGCOM reads clean, no errors, so it's a bit of a wasted expense on my part. They'll sh!t themselves when the rocker cover is opened up though, cams at all angles.
Have to get it towed there myself, they wouldnt pay for that :rolleyes:
Which dealer are you going to , Agnews?
I have taken an extended warranty out as mine has just passed three mainly due to hearing issues like this :shocked:
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As watchdog did a program this month on the BMW timing chain issue destroying diesel engines.
The people who have had failures may want to inform bbc watchdog that VW also has a big issue with timing chain tensioners destroying engines.
:nerd:
:whistle:
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Good news.
VW are taking it in for "diagnostic" at £56 charge.
I know VAGCOM reads clean, no errors, so it's a bit of a wasted expense on my part. They'll sh!t themselves when the rocker cover is opened up though, cams at all angles.
Have to get it towed there myself, they wouldnt pay for that :rolleyes:
Which dealer are you going to , Agnews?
I have taken an extended warranty out as mine has just passed three mainly due to hearing issues like this :shocked:
Yeah Mike, it's going to Agnews unfortunately, but I'd like to keep things all above board and simple.
I sincerely hope VW do something about it, as I don't want to be forking out too much. I'm prepared to take a little hit - even though I really shouldn't be.
Yes I have the TSB number on the previous page, I've a feeling it might come in very handy if they start playing silly buggers :)
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That TSB may only be applicable in VW USA?
You can see an entry for 2009/10/11:
http://www.aboutautomobile.com/TSB/2009/Volkswagen/GTI/Engine
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That's a different TSB number and date filed
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Just thought id post this for info purposes if anyone was interested in an idea of costs,
Well for piece of mind at that sort of price I'll be booking it in next week,
Not worth messing around yourself ?
This is the reply I got
Good morning Neil
To replace the timing chain tensioner to the latest type and all new bolts cover etc needed would be £262.70inc fitted. I see that we have your car in with us tomorrow for the K04 Turbo upgrade, unfortunately I don't think we would have time to replace this tensioner at the same time. If you have any other questions please let me know, Andy is not back in until tomorrow.
If you would like the tensioner replacing we can arrange a booking with you when you bring your car in tomorrow, we have time available next week.
Kind regards,
Ben Baxter
AutoTechnica
Tel: 01482 353369
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That's a different TSB number and date filed
Yes it's different,the TSB mentioned earlier may have no relevance in the UK market.
For example the cam follower on the MK5 was given an extended warranty by VW USA but there is no extended warranty in the UK.
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Just thought id post this for info purposes if anyone was interested in an idea of costs,
Well for piece of mind at that sort of price I'll be booking it in next week,
Not worth messing around yourself ?
This is the reply I got
Good morning Neil
To replace the timing chain tensioner to the latest type and all new bolts cover etc needed would be £262.70inc fitted. I see that we have your car in with us tomorrow for the K04 Turbo upgrade, unfortunately I don't think we would have time to replace this tensioner at the same time. If you have any other questions please let me know, Andy is not back in until tomorrow.
If you would like the tensioner replacing we can arrange a booking with you when you bring your car in tomorrow, we have time available next week.
Kind regards,
Ben Baxter
AutoTechnica
Tel: 01482 353369
£262....when my warranty runs out ill defo be getting it done. not worth not doing it
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^^^
Is your car a 59 plate ? As in your sig, then your warranty has ran out ?
Or have you extended it :smiley:
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^^^
Is your car a 59 plate ? As in your sig, then your warranty has ran out ?
Or have you extended it :smiley:
Well not sure what it covers, but got an approved used VW with a one year warranty from JTC600 VW / Peugeot
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^^^
Is your car a 59 plate ? As in your sig, then your warranty has ran out ?
Or have you extended it :smiley:
Well not sure what it covers, but got an approved used VW with a one year warranty from JTC600 VW / Peugeot
That explains it then :rolleyes: :grin:
£260 for piece of mind or approx £5k for a new engine, mmm which shall it be,
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(http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q584/for-the-lulz/20130626_100251_zps1179ac92.jpg)
Yeeeee haw
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On it's way in then :cry:
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Had mine in for a service today and mentioned this. They checked a TSB and said my chassis number didn't appear on the TSB affected list, but couldn't guarantee 100% it wouldn't be affected. I asked if they could tell me which tensioner assembly was fitted but they couldn't do that either without a strip down to check. Not really any further forward. Mines a MY11 made in June 2010
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Had an amusing phone conversation with the guy who booked it in for the check-up.
Him "Hi Mr Rossc0, just wondering if you could tell me the symptoms of the problem?"
Me "Sure. I started it, it died with a loud noise and now it won't start"
Him "Right, we will see what the diagnostic tells me"
Me "I've been googling the symptoms, apparently 'timing chain tensioner failure' comes up quite a bit with these symptoms"
Him "That's not possible Mr Rossc0, your car is belt driven!"
:whistle:
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Oh dear..............
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Had an amusing phone conversation with the guy who booked it in for the check-up.
Him "Hi Mr Rossc0, just wondering if you could tell me the symptoms of the problem?"
Me "Sure. I started it, it died with a loud noise and now it won't start"
Him "Right, we will see what the diagnostic tells me"
Me "I've been googling the symptoms, apparently 'timing chain tensioner failure' comes up quite a bit with these symptoms"
Him "That's not possible Mr Rossc0, your car is belt driven!"
:whistle:
Muppet :angry:
That's why I never use the dealers for work on my car, 99% of them have no idea
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Him "That's not possible Mr Rossc0, your car is belt driven!"
That'll be Agnews, complete idiots :rolleyes:
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Rossc0
I tired to pm you but you need to make more posts to receive mail. Make sure you fight for at least 100% parts and 70% labour. I think you could prob get 100% labour too if u fight for it. Unfortunately I didn't have time to argue when it happened to me as I was pre job interview but I'm sure if I did they would have budged a bit.
Good luck and let us know how you get on. If you need any help pm me once you've made enough posts.
Jon
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Cheers Jon for the suggestions
I'll wait and see what they come back with, but I'll be arguing the bit out alright! I'd best post more :grin:
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New engine time
Had a call from the service department, confirmed there was zero compression in every cylinder. (as I know)
They now need to strip the head to assess damage (which I know. Cams, valves etc) £385 charge, refundable if the engine is damaged (which i know it is, free :cool:)
He has already pre-empted it with VW UK who have agreed to send over a new engine free of charge.
He discussed labour costs, VW UK have agreed to cover 50% of labour costs and the dealership will give a good will gesture. How much hasn't yet been said yet but I'll kick up a fuss if I'm left with a hefty bill.
All in all a good result. All hail VW uk
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Great news.
Looks like that full VW service history was worth it's weight in gold :smiley:
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He didnt even mention that on the phone!
A good result in any case and hats off to VW
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Good news. Keep us updated
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guys we are talking about vw engines failing at 50k miles here! the customer should not have to pay a penny towards the repairs and they should also get a courtesy car thrown in. if vw could build engines a few years back that went on for 250k miles then there is no reason why they should not do it now. car industry is turning in to a complete joke last couple of years.
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guys we are talking about vw engines failing at 50k miles here! the customer should not have to pay a penny towards the repairs and they should also get a courtesy car thrown in. if vw could build engines a few years back that went on for 250k miles then there is no reason why they should not do it now. car industry is turning in to a complete joke last couple of years.
And its not mile dependent it could have failed at 1000 miles or less.
Its simply a poorly designed weak part not fit for purpose imo.
VW as I said months ago when I posted about this part, and was ignored, has a policy of replacing engines if it fails. Thats there policy and responce to it. They know there is an issue but fail to do any recall or proactive responce.
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yeah they are coming out with all these new and complex designs and crossing their fingers when the car hits the show rooms. the way I see it is you buy a new car. then not long after you hear about this common fault that could happen to it at any time. great news if your planning a drive round Europe or such like. would really inspire you with confidence. then of course you want to go sell car on but everyone else has heard of this fault to so your stuck with a car that could give up suddenly and leave you stranded miles from home. just not good enough im afraid.
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Good result with getting it sorted but it is a shocking piece of poor design from VW.
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yeah they are coming out with all these new and complex designs and crossing their fingers when the car hits the show rooms. the way I see it is you buy a new car. then not long after you hear about this common fault that could happen to it at any time. great news if your planning a drive round Europe or such like. would really inspire you with confidence. then of course you want to go sell car on but everyone else has heard of this fault to so your stuck with a car that could give up suddenly and leave you stranded miles from home. just not good enough im afraid.
Anyone with any engineering experience can see why it fails. Its a shocking bit of design. I guess the work experience kid did the design. .
At least it will omly fail when you start the car after its stood a while therefore has no oil pressure. I cross my fingers everytime I start the car.
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I cross my fingers everytime I start the car.
What a shocking state of affairs. Personally I couldn't live with that situation.
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I cross my fingers everytime I start the car.
What a shocking state of affairs. Personally I couldn't live with that situation.
My lifes far to busy at the moment to do the job of replacing it or I would have. (I dont trust numptys to do it) Its rare it fails as the tens of thousands out there but it can.
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Had some crazy quotes to get this tensioner replaced. One main dealer was over £2k and insisted that the chain and guides had to be replaced too as they had been revised. Another main dealer was £940. Cheapest so far was £600 from an independent VAG specialist. I've also read on some VRS forums that some owners notice a couple of seconds of start-up chatter from the engine / chain in the weeks / months before it finally gives out, this doesn't seem to be a consistent observation, though.
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but the fact is its a known fault that could happen to any of the cars. so personally I wouldn't go near them. I will stick to my mk2 gti for as long as I can thanks.
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Has anyone had the latest revision tensioner fitted?
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Has anyone had the latest revision tensioner fitted?
I had mine replaced this week £269.00
From a VW specialist :wink:
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Has anyone had the latest revision tensioner fitted?
I had mine replaced this week £269.00
From a VW specialist :wink:
What warranty do they offer on the work?
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Has anyone had the latest revision tensioner fitted?
I had mine replaced this week £269.00
From a VW specialist :wink:
What warranty do they offer on the work?
Oem parts so 12mnths I would of thought,
Very Reputable company local to me and also Revo dealers, they also had a stand at Inters this year :wink:
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(http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q584/for-the-lulz/20130709_154203_zps20024af3.jpg)
All better
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Good to hear. Just hope nothing has been marked or damaged in the hart transplant.
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Great news.. If you see a madman in a 3 door GTI waving, it is just me :smiley:
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All parking spaces should have this much space either side.
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Had some crazy quotes to get this tensioner replaced. One main dealer was over £2k and insisted that the chain and guides had to be replaced too as they had been revised. Another main dealer was £940. Cheapest so far was £600 from an independent VAG specialist. I've also read on some VRS forums that some owners notice a couple of seconds of start-up chatter from the engine / chain in the weeks / months before it finally gives out, this doesn't seem to be a consistent observation, though.
Been quoted £550 from a specialist to replace the tensioner and cover plate plus oil and filter change. Seems a lot but probably worth it for peace of mind.
Matt
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Agnews were kind enough to upgrade my tensioner free of charge
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Hi RosscO,
My Gti has just had the timing chain tensioner failure also - Sept 09,40k miles,serviced by vw every 10k,last service
a month ago - you said in one post that vw were funding 100% parts plus 50% towards labour and dealer would also
contribute towards labour - I don't recall you saying what this was in the end ? how much did you have to pay,if anything,in the end ?
Cheers.
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Hi RosscO,
My Gti has just had the timing chain tensioner failure also - Sept 09,40k miles,serviced by vw every 10k,last service
a month ago - you said in one post that vw were funding 100% parts plus 50% towards labour and dealer would also
contribute towards labour - I don't recall you saying what this was in the end ? how much did you have to pay,if anything,in the end ?
Cheers.
Another one? Ouch! :cry:
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Just had mine go same way, Sept 09 33K miles. Chain tensioner failed, total cost £3250, VW funded part but cost to me was still over a grand.
Big Ouch............. :sick:
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Just had mine go same way, Sept 09 33K miles. Chain tensioner failed, total cost £3250, VW funded part but cost to me was still over a grand.
Big Ouch............. :sick:
Not another...this is crazy. Im gonna have to get the latest revision as mine is a 2010 (59 plate). Is this the only part that they need to change? 06K 109 467 IT MR7
Was was the best quote someone got from VW?
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Latest main dealer quote is £800, including new cover, bolts and seals. According to my dealer, that part number is on back-order (tensioner). I wonder whether they're revising it again...... As soon as it comes in, mine will be done.
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Latest main dealer quote is £800, including new cover, bolts and seals. According to my dealer, that part number is on back-order (tensioner). I wonder whether they're revising it again...... As soon as it comes in, mine will be done.
£800....sack that. Its only a £1000 (plus the part VW contribute) if it actually breaks.....
If it was £200 - £300 i might do it.
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I'm sure someone got it done for about £260 by an independent in East Yorkshire, sure I remember reading it on here somewhere!
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I'm sure someone got it done for about £260 by an independent in East Yorkshire, sure I remember reading it on here somewhere!
Yep that'll be me
£269.00 new Tensioner, coverplate, sealant, bolts, from a Vag specialist
No brainer for me as my car is coming upto 4 yrs old now
& with nearly 50k on the clock and it just gets better and better as the miles clock up, Done 1.7k in the last 5 days and its not missed a beat,
I only normally keep a car for a couple of years but the mk6 still puts a big smile on my face :smiley:
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Yeah def gonna get mine done but still have 10 months warranty left! Asked the dealer if they would change as there was a problem with the design and they said that they had not heard of any problems with it! So I asked them to make a note so when or if it goes it will be "told you so!"
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I was quoted about £350 from an indy specialist to replace the tensioner and was quoted the following from a main dealer:
Total £1177.21 (Ex Vat)
- Parts £273.91
- Labour £637.31
- Oil about £70
Estimated to be 7.5 hours work. Both tensioners and guides + chains needed replacing to guarantee the work. I'm fairly sure someone posted similar in this or a recent thread.
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I'm sure someone got it done for about £260 by an independent in East Yorkshire, sure I remember reading it on here somewhere!
Yep that'll be me
£269.00 new Tensioner, coverplate, sealant, bolts, from a Vag specialist
No brainer for me as my car is coming upto 4 yrs old now
& with nearly 50k on the clock and it just gets better and better as the miles clock up, Done 1.7k in the last 5 days and its not missed a beat,
I only normally keep a car for a couple of years but the mk6 still puts a big smile on my face :smiley:
Neil, who was it? Can you put me in touch with them and get me the same price :cool:
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I know the forum makes it seem worse because people document it. Do we have an idea of how many have actually broke in relations to how many MK6 GTIs there are. Does it also effect the 1.4 TSI?
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http://de.671200.com/artikel/vw-1.4-tsi-probleme-mit-steuerketten-2892135.html
http://de.671200.com/artikel/vw-tsi-motorschaeden-3342557.html
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wow! this thread is lasting longer than a modern vw engine lol.
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You would think since vw dont want to recall and replace tensioners they would at least do a software fix.
This would check the timing and disengage the starter motor not allowing it to turn over the engine destroy and mashing resulting in the entire engine needing replacment.
That way it would only cost vw time to retime the engine and a new tensioner when it goes wrong not an entire engine!!! Plus fitting time..
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You would think since vw dont want to recall and replace tensioners they would at least do a software fix.
This would check the timing and disengage the starter motor not allowing it to turn over the engine destroy and mashing resulting in the entire engine needing replacment.
That way it would only cost vw time to retime the engine and a new tensioner when it goes wrong not an entire engine!!! Plus fitting time..
Very good idea Snoopy, if only you could get this message to the R&D or Tech team, im sure it wont be too hard.
Is it eventually going to happen to every 09 / 10 plate or do you think its just random.
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I dont know.
What I do know is everyone thats seen the tensioner design who has mechanical experience understands why they fail.
My previous post is one of the ways I would as an R&D engineer myself tackle the situation. A simple software upload at the dealers during service would be no hardship.
But 2 years or more down the line all they have done is revise the tensioner design a few times. That may reduce the situation of it failing when fitted to newer cars but what about the older ones out there. It seems that they are not bothered about their reputation.
I wonder whats fitted to the mk7!
I still find it unbelievable that people find it acceptable to pay 1000 pound of their OWN money to replace an engine when its a design fault that caused it.
Never mind the incompatence of alot of main dealers technicians from my own experience I know I would not trust 99% of them to be able to dismantle then re assemble the entire front end of a GTI correctly..
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Just thought I'd add mines alright May 09 GTI 55,000, for now!!
I have mentioned it to the dealer but same response, they know nothing about it so I'm just listening out for any change in engine sound although this has left me feeling a little paranoid that every other little sound I hear coming from the engine its the chain ha ha
I did read somewhere when I was researching this that there is a service hole with a rub plug and this is used to hold the chain back during a service or repair when the mechanics are working on it. And so looking through this hole you can see the state the tensioner is in. It has 4 notches apparently and if its on the fourth then its going to go.
Unsure if this is true or not and so maybe someone with a bit more knowledge could back it up?!?
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Just thought I'd add mines alright May 09 GTI 55,000, for now!!
I have mentioned it to the dealer but same response, they know nothing about it so I'm just listening out for any change in engine sound although this has left me feeling a little paranoid that every other little sound I hear coming from the engine its the chain ha ha
I did read somewhere when I was researching this that there is a service hole with a rub plug and this is used to hold the chain back during a service or repair when the mechanics are working on it. And so looking through this hole you can see the state the tensioner is in. It has 4 notches apparently and if its on the fourth then its going to go.
Unsure if this is true or not and so maybe someone with a bit more knowledge could back it up?!?
Im the same, fingers crossed for every cold start in the morning....Its no way to live and enjoy your car.
The 3 seconds on start up isnt exactly quite, be then is it suppose to be? No real idea what the problem sounds like and othing to compare it to
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLYpPUJ7g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Probably sounds like that.
Or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLSXCO3NU0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Type in tsi engine rattle into youtube theres lots of videos sadly.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLYpPUJ7g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Probably sounds like that.
Or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLSXCO3NU0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Type in tsi engine rattle into youtube theres lots of videos sadly.
Do you have any cold start up chatter?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLYpPUJ7g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Probably sounds like that.
Or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLSXCO3NU0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Type in tsi engine rattle into youtube theres lots of videos sadly.
Do you have any cold start up chatter?
Can some one post up a normal start up. Im really not sure how bad mine is or isnt. Both my MK5 an MK6 have never had silky start ups, I thought it was just a FSI & TSI trate.
Im going to record min and you guys can judge. ( i follow good practice by turning the key to click one, wait for lights to go out and then start her up fully, do other people do that? Just to let all the senors test)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLYpPUJ7g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Probably sounds like that.
Or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLSXCO3NU0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Type in tsi engine rattle into youtube theres lots of videos sadly.
Mine sounds a bit like that :cry: 59 plate with 50k miles now :shocked:
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Listen for the chain type rattle against the case for a few seconds before the oil pressure tensions the chain.
Ignore the other noises.
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Listen for the chain type rattle against the case for a few seconds before the oil pressure tensions the chain.
Ignore the other noises.
Not exactly sure what I'm listening out for though :embarrassed: I better get in touch with my local indy garage :cry:
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Listen for the chain type rattle against the case for a few seconds before the oil pressure tensions the chain.
Ignore the other noises.
Not exactly sure what I'm listening out for though :embarrassed: I better get in touch with my local indy garage :cry:
Pretty much as those youtube videos sound in the thread.
As the engine cranks you should hear chatter like a brief whine from the chain drive before it settles down.
The whine is fairly distinct and brief. You may hear it every startup after the first one but it's usually much shorter duration and less perceptible to the ear if you aren't listening for it.
This is all anecdotal and it hasn't been confirmed whether this is actually a sign or not as far as I'm aware.
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The ratchet on the tensioner HOLDs the tension on the chain until oil pressure is present. (During cold start up)
The tensioner drops back onto its ratchet after oil preasure reduces (a while after engine turn off)
Its the tensioner ratchet that fails releasing tension.
The BMW tensioner version is different but listen to this mini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCj4vBnUDN8&feature=youtube_gdata_playerSent from Samsung Mobile
Listen to the chain been slack and hitting therefore rattling against the plastic cover and guides and the chain moving about as its slack.Thats to show the type of noise only. Ita different to a vw one as the vw one tensions with oil pressure so reving a vw will just tighteb the chain with oil pressure.
I dont know how else to explain it. Its a chain like on a bicycle the noise it makes when slack and rattling against a guard or something. A metal chain against a plastic cover..
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Snoopy and poached, thanks for your help guys!
When I'm feeling brave I will start my car and video it so you can give me your opinions.
Thanks God for the work van at the minute :smiley:
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So over the last few days I have been listening to my engine more and there seems to be a definite rattle (as mentioned above) only for a few seconds on start up then its gone.
I will try and post a vid!!
So I decided to ring VW CC (yes I know absolute waste of time) however I just wanted something documented and so I explained the issue at hand to be told "There is no issue" which I agreed for how many GTI's sold to how many are failing fair enough however some ARE failing!
Anyhow just thought Id give an update just at least if mine does go then VW have something on record that I have brought it up and its been noted that at the last service I mentioned the engine was rough starting to be told its fine, may help with any future claim.
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Can a few people listen to min and see what they think, it was from a cold start this morning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK9c96U1GHk
To be honest, it doesnt sound ultra smooth ( which the TSI never does) But doesnt sound no where near as bad as a lot of timing chain sound on YouTube.
Let us know what you guys think....
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Stick your head near the engine cover during start up.
. That could be injector noise as mine are very noisy especially the middle two it scarred the sh!t out of me when I did mine the other morning. Then moved my ear near different locations and found it was from the centre of the engine. Not the plastic chain cover on the left.
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Stick your head near the engine cover during start up.
. That could be injector noise as mine are very noisy especially the middle two it scarred the sh!t out of me when I did mine the other morning. Then moved my ear near different locations and found it was from the centre of the engine.
So do you think mine sound pretty normal? Which side of the engine is the chain on? the left?
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The left that black plastic cover on the side of the engine. The drivers side.
Behind the oil filter and next to the dipstick.
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That first couple of seconds while the oil pressure builds is when you have to listen.
If im honest im not sure either way by your video. Its hard to tell from a video with all the other noises this engine makes.
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Can a few people listen to min and see what they think, it was from a cold start this morning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK9c96U1GHk
To be honest, it doesnt sound ultra smooth ( which the TSI never does) But doesnt sound no where near as bad as a lot of timing chain sound on YouTube.
Let us know what you guys think....
That sounds pretty much the same as mine and I don't know if thats good or bad! :undecided:
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It's the sound between 8 and 10 seconds.
You can hear a drone that is distinct from the Pulleys/Chain/Injectors/Engine vibrations etc.
Now whether this is a sign of problems or not is the question!
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Sounds normal to me.
Just had my 40K service and asked the dealer about the tensioner.
They have only had one Tiguan fail, fixed under warranty, and they know of another local dealer who had a failure but the customer caught it before any damage was done.
According to a previous link,VW they will cover it up to 6 years and 200,000 KM, as long as the car has been serviced correctly.
Seems a pretty rare occurrence so wouldn't let it worry you.
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I know it is probably rare in regards to how many they sell. But crossing your fingers every morning is no way to live.
I told my mate who has 10 plate Octavia VRS about this problem and now he is scared. Just dont like the idea of a ticking time bomb.
But it seems to be all German cars at the minute....BMW, Mini etc....
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Hi Guys
I'm a newbee on here, but have been lurking for a while :rolleyes: This thread has been very useful to me as well.
I've a Dec 09 car with 33k on the clock and i've owned it for 9 months, in that time it has never missed a beat and has been great (i've had a mk2 and mk4 before) The car didn't have a full VAG history, but did have a full history at a local garage, it was the spec i was looking for so i bought it anyway, I checked it out myself and found everything to be as it should be.
My Local VW garage (Hawco, Peterhead) has looked after my previous ones (despite me being a mechanic :rolleyes:) so i'm happy with their service and skills. So naturally i booked the car in to them for its annual service.
Imagine my surprise when they phoned me to say they had the Camshaft and Crankshaft warnings come up on the Diagnostics and that with the computer disconnected the car now had its management light on and wouldn't start. So i got the same tale about Tensioners that you have discussing on here, they said VW goodwill would cover 100% of the parts and 30% of the labour to change the tensioner and quoted £145 inc.vat for the job. This was step one! i left them the car and got a nice wee Polo courtesy car (given this was unexpected i thought that was good service as you usually have to pre-book a courtesy car)
Anyway as the week went on it turned out the Tensioner hadn't completely failed but had been erratic enough for the chain to start eating the casing, which had put metal through the engine, when they dropped the sump it was full of particles so they are Changing the Engine and all the associated components that use the sump oil. I should be getting the car back tomorrow (3 1/2 weeks later) and the Cost to me is to be £965 incl VAT.
I agree that given it is a known problem then paying for it hurts a bit, but i'm also getting a complete new engine for just under a grand on a car that is out of warranty and until now, hasn't been maintained by VW. On the whole I'm very happy with the outcome and with the service but i would have expected the underlying issue to have been a recall.
For anyone with an 09/10 TSI engine it has to be worth getting the Tensioner replaced, but surely if VAG quoted the 100% on parts and 30% on labour giving the £145 quote for the job, then you should be trying to get it under those terms, it has to be worth it for VAG as well as it saves them the cost of the engine.
Looking forward to getting my baby back :kiss:
Cheers
Sandy
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Are you not unhappy that you have had to pay over £1000 for a new engine possibly due to Tensioner design?
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Are you not unhappy that you have had to pay over £1000 for a new engine possibly due to Tensioner design?
I would be :shocked:
Goo dpoint about VW offering a deal as then everyone wins, customers get piece of mind, VW get a lot less new engines to shell out for! :whistle:
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Spiderman, did you get this offer in writing or verbal, I hope you have it in writing so i can take it to my VW branch.
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Hi Guys
I'm a newbee on here, but have been lurking for a while :rolleyes: This thread has been very useful to me as well.
I've a Dec 09 car with 33k on the clock and i've owned it for 9 months, in that time it has never missed a beat and has been great (i've had a mk2 and mk4 before) The car didn't have a full VAG history, but did have a full history at a local garage, it was the spec i was looking for so i bought it anyway, I checked it out myself and found everything to be as it should be.
My Local VW garage (Hawco, Peterhead) has looked after my previous ones (despite me being a mechanic :rolleyes:) so i'm happy with their service and skills. So naturally i booked the car in to them for its annual service.
Imagine my surprise when they phoned me to say they had the Camshaft and Crankshaft warnings come up on the Diagnostics and that with the computer disconnected the car now had its management light on and wouldn't start. So i got the same tale about Tensioners that you have discussing on here, they said VW goodwill would cover 100% of the parts and 30% of the labour to change the tensioner and quoted £145 inc.vat for the job. This was step one! i left them the car and got a nice wee Polo courtesy car (given this was unexpected i thought that was good service as you usually have to pre-book a courtesy car)
Anyway as the week went on it turned out the Tensioner hadn't completely failed but had been erratic enough for the chain to start eating the casing, which had put metal through the engine, when they dropped the sump it was full of particles so they are Changing the Engine and all the associated components that use the sump oil. I should be getting the car back tomorrow (3 1/2 weeks later) and the Cost to me is to be £965 incl VAT.
I agree that given it is a known problem then paying for it hurts a bit, but i'm also getting a complete new engine for just under a grand on a car that is out of warranty and until now, hasn't been maintained by VW. On the whole I'm very happy with the outcome and with the service but i would have expected the underlying issue to have been a recall.
For anyone with an 09/10 TSI engine it has to be worth getting the Tensioner replaced, but surely if VAG quoted the 100% on parts and 30% on labour giving the £145 quote for the job, then you should be trying to get it under those terms, it has to be worth it for VAG as well as it saves them the cost of the engine.
Looking forward to getting my baby back :kiss:
Cheers
Sandy
Read my previous post mate, VAG don't wonna know. I even said Id be willing to pay a little if so much was covered by them and the argument is "Its not a fault until it breaks" which in all fairness the amount of GTI's in the country that have/will break is probably a v small %
I'm not really bothered about mine anymore if it goes it goes but I certainly wont be out of pocket I'll refuse to pay a penny on the grounds both vag customer service have logged the call as well as me recording the call and my local dealer logging and stating "There is no fault"
This is my peace of mind :wink:
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Are you not unhappy that you have had to pay over £1000 for a new engine possibly due to Tensioner design?
Dude, i was livid for the first few days and even suggested that they may have turned the engine over and skipped some teeth, however the service manager was really good about it and i have subsequently seen the worn and damaged bits so i calmed down a bit.
Once i learned it was a known fault i thought the 100% + 30% was a bloody cheek, but having spoken to trading standards and few friends in the trade, i kinda realised that despite the fact it would be a huge PR disaster for VAG to refuse to pay for any of it (especially as they have set a precedent), they could, as the car was out of warranty and perhaps many lesser manufacturers may well have done so.
I'm now happy i took it back to VW for its service, i'm sure it would have been much more complex and potentially more expensive if it had gone elsewhere or i had serviced it myself.
I have to be pragmatic and accept that yes it has been expensive, but i do have a nice new engine in a car i already love and intended to keep and perhaps the outlay is reflected in an increase in the car's value as it has a new VW fitted engine.
Rocketross, i'm afraid the offer for the tensioner quickly became a Chain and casing and then a new engine so i have nothing for the earlier quotes in writing, sorry :sad:
Jim, i completely get where you are coming from and i hope you are right and never have to use it.
The TSI engine is in a lot more cars than the GTI though so i still think its surprising they never went for a recall.
Sandy
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It was always a case in the car trade that if a car had a new engine it was always worth less.
All ths front end been apart and seals and paint potential damage never mind reassemble issues would scare me.
If your happy the thats all that counts.
If it happens to mine that will be the end of mk6 for me it would be sold. That would draw a close to any future newish VW for me.. there not what they were...
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It was always a case in the car trade that if a car had a new engine it was always worth less.
All ths front end been apart and seals and paint potential damage never mind reassemble issues would scare me.
If your happy the thats all that counts.
If it happens to mine that will be the end of mk6 for me it would be sold. That would draw a close to any future newish VW for me.. there not what they were...
I never thought about it like that, but hopefully i'll be happy when i get it back, my initial thoughts were fix it and ditch it, but i took too long to actually find a car i was happy with, that ticked the boxes :undecided:. Anyway i've spent enough on it now this year that i couldn't stomach parting yet.
Sandy
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I don't think it's just the tensioner that's the problem. I've read stories of failing guides and stretched chains too. The service manager at my local dealership told me that the chain is on revision 'M', the tensioner 'K' and I forget what the guides were but they had been updated. In the end the price to change the whole lot came to £840 after some discussion. I didn't go ahead in the end as I handed them the keys at the time I ordered a MK7 a few days later (which I might see at some point in the next year!)
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It was always a case in the car trade that if a car had a new engine it was always worth less.
All ths front end been apart and seals and paint potential damage never mind reassemble issues would scare me.
If your happy the thats all that counts.
If it happens to mine that will be the end of mk6 for me it would be sold. That would draw a close to any future newish VW for me.. there not what they were...
I never thought about it like that, but hopefully i'll be happy when i get it back, my initial thoughts were fix it and ditch it, but i took too long to actually find a car i was happy with, that ticked the boxes :undecided:. Anyway i've spent enough on it now this year that i couldn't stomach parting yet.
Sandy
so let me get this right. you have a golf with engine problems at just 33k and you don't mind paying over a grand in repairs???
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so let me get this right. you have a golf with engine problems at just 33k and you don't mind paying over a grand in repairs???
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Out of warranty and yes i do mind :angry:, but what can i do about it? A new engine seems massive overkill for a tensioner, but also seems to be a common outcome. I belive they have had other engines with far less miles on them do the same.
At the end of the day its a machine, things go wrong, although design flaws should be dealt with and have been from what i read, its just a pity they didn't see fit to retro fit them all.
Hey ho, sh!t happens and it has cost me the BBS wheels i was planning, but at least it didn't fail and skip a tooth under hard acceleration away from a junction. :undecided:
Sandy
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but at least it didn't fail and skip a tooth under hard acceleration away from a junction. :undecided:
Sandy
It wouldn't do that because of the design.
If you read one of my many many many many many many many many posts on how and why it fails, ... it only fails at startup...
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I think I would have just run it in to a ditch and collected the insurance. modern vws are such poor build quality and I cant understand why people keep buying them. but if people keep buying their fragile rubbish then they will just keep making it.
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but at least it didn't fail and skip a tooth under hard acceleration away from a junction. :undecided:
Sandy
It wouldn't do that because of the design.
If you read one of my many many many many many many many many posts on how and why it fails, ... it only fails at startup...
I appreciate the expertise and have looked into the workings of the tensioner, so I understand why it is likely only to fail on start up, But mine showed no signs of failure prior to being plugged into the diagnostics on the service , yet it had allowed the chain to eat into the inside of the casing. So it makes me wonder "what if?"
Sandy
At least that's the story I got, and the evidence seemed to support it.
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I understand where you're coming from regarding the goodwill, I don't think anyone on here expected any more :rolleyes:.
You only had 33k on the clock so what will they offer someone with 60k in goodwill?