GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: hobbiniho on 17 January 2013, 17:59
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right iv just bought myself a nice little mk3 with a BAM 20vt running an emerald ecu and i was needing some advice on my intercooler i will let the pics do the talking
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000133.jpg)
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000134.jpg)
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000135.jpg)
now i think that that intercooler is way too small (its also twisted) but i might be wrong and also that pipe with the reducer like that cant be good?? what does others use sprinter??
another question is where would the map sensor be located?? i thought that it would be in the intercooler piping somewhere but i can see it
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Hi mate those pipes do look way to small ,i would look for an intercooler kit with 2.5" piping for a bam ,im running 2 1/4" but only got ko3
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Looks like a Bodge!!! Bet it wasn't making much hp.
2.5 all the way!
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Hi mate those pipes do look way to small ,i would look for an intercooler kit with 2.5" piping for a bam ,im running 2 1/4" but only got ko3
I ran 2.25" pipework on my S3 with a K04, and it managed 275BHP/330lb-ft just fine...so I'd argue that 2.0/2.25" isnt way too small.
Larger pipework = more lag.
Have you looked at the size of the compressor on a K04?
Have you seen the size of the standar AMK/BAM plastic charge pipe just before the TB?
Oh...and that's where the MAP sits on a BAM/AMK...in the black plastic charge pipe from the IC to the TB.
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im running 2.5 all the way around. if your not planning on running more than say 250 (which is the max id go to myself) then iv been told and am running the toyosport 2.5" kit from ebay. intercooler and piping for about the 130 mark.
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yeh im looking at the toyosport kits well so far its got a decat straight through to the backbox and a sh!tty carbon closed airbox thing, i was planning on getting an uprated tip probably badger5 :cool: and some sort of heatsheild although this will require the battery relocating to the boot for space and then get it mapped
is this the map sensor??
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000144.jpg)
because there is no other sensor on any of the pipework
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000143.jpg)
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000145.jpg)
and theres no MAF either :laugh: so how can it run with no MAF or MAP :shocked:
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is this the map sensor??
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000144.jpg)
That looks more like the inlet air temperature sensor IIRC.
May be wrong though.
I thought the MAP sensor had two bolts to fix it in?
and theres no MAF either :laugh: so how can it run with no MAF or MAP :shocked:
Doesn't need a MAF...it can be mapped against throttle angle and boost.
But for that it would need a throttle pot....and I don't see one.
What TB is that anyway?
It's not a BAM TB, that's for sure...not with a cable!
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Looking at my mates bam set up, his map sensor is mounted on a pipe before the throttlebody and has two bolt fixings. As ess says that is the air temp sensor.
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ok the no MAF i can understand there is a throttle pot its on the other side it never even registered with me that this engine should be DBW and not have throttle cable :whistle: iv got no idea what TB it is, its got vw stamped on it. how would the ecu know the boost?? i dont really understand 1.8t's im more of a tdi man myself
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Qpeng body?
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Looking at my mates bam set up, his map sensor is mounted on a pipe before the throttlebody and has two bolt fixings. As ess says that is the air temp sensor.
Bingo!
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ok the no MAF i can understand there is a throttle pot its on the other side it never even registered with me that this engine should be DBW and not have throttle cable :whistle: iv got no idea what TB it is, its got vw stamped on it. how would the ecu know the boost?? i dont really understand 1.8t's im more of a tdi man myself
So it's got a throttle pot - that's throttle angle sorted.
Air temperature you have too.
Presumably water temperature in the head as normal...
So just MAP to find.
It's got to be there somewhere...not tapped into the inlet manifold/plenum is it?
Apart from outputs to coils and injectors, that's the minimum you need to run Emerald in Alpha-n mode.
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google suggests that its an early 1.8t throttle body as the older ones were cable operated, possibly the whole inlet is from a transverse mounted 1.8t as it has a oem looking bracket under the manifold to hold the cable
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is this the water temprature sensor? if so its not connected :rolleyes:
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000148.jpg)
and heres the cable throttle bracket with what i think could be the map sensor to the left, there is a pipe going from this sensor to the bottom of the inlet manifold
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000150.jpg)
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google suggests that its an early 1.8t throttle body as the older ones were cable operated, possibly the whole inlet is from a transverse mounted 1.8t as it has a oem looking bracket under the manifold to hold the cable
Thats a TT/S3 inlet manifold...transverse mount. The longitudinal inlet manifolds are very different.
It could be an early 1.8T TB...but the cable TBs were mounted on the 150/180 inlets with the TB on the left.
RHS mounted TBs (TT/S3) were only ever DBW as far as I know.
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Thats the sensor for the VVT Tensioner, really should be plugged in, although if you are running Emerald then only they know what needs to be plugged in or not.
I would entirely re-pipe the intercooler, same diameter pipe throughout will aid in air flow.
The MAP sensor should definitely be on the pipe that runs up to the TB, but again, Emerald may not need it as the early engines didn't have em anyways.
And yes, Ess_Three is correct in saying that RHS mounted TB's were all DBW from factory, not sure if Emerald sell the TB's with there kit like Qpeng do
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Thats the sensor for the VVT Tensioner, really should be plugged in, although if you are running Emerald then only they know what needs to be plugged in or not.
Isn't VVT only an emissions aid on those engines?
Possibly not needed.
I wonder if this installation runs a lambda sensor and Cat?
The MAP sensor should definitely be on the pipe that runs up to the TB, but again, Emerald may not need it as the early engines didn't have em anyways.
The early engines didn't run a MAP sensor?
How did they control the boost pressure?
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^^ it was a barometric pressure sensor integrated into the ecu.... so they did have a map sensor, just not one you could see lol
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a bam engine with a throttle cable?
im beginning to think that might be an aum (?) with a s3/tt manifold!
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a bam engine with a throttle cable?
im beginning to think that might be an aum (?) with a s3/tt manifold!
Why would you think that? AUM was DBW too.
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^^ it was a barometric pressure sensor integrated into the ecu.... so they did have a map sensor, just not one you could see lol
That makes sense.
You need a MAP of some description to modulate boost. The early 1.8Ts still ran the N75 boost control circuit I assume?
They just measured MAP in the ECU, as opposed to a remote sensor in the charge pressure pipework.
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a bam engine with a throttle cable?
im beginning to think that might be an aum (?) with a s3/tt manifold!
Why would you think that? AUM was DBW too.
not a aum, agu i meant! doesnt add up why it has a throttle cable attached
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That sensor on the inlet is the temp sensor not map
Map sensor goes before TB
Looks like its had a lot of corners cut and alot of TLC
where u located ?
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not a aum, agu i meant! doesnt add up why it has a throttle cable attached
Erm...would that be because it's in a Mk3 and running a non-OEM ECU?
I'm guessing that would explain it...it makes the wiring far more simple.
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Yea emerald uses cable throttle and no maf and I think no map
And no knock control
I'm not a fan personally
The Engine is deffo the amk/bam you can see the charge pipe on left of engine
The Intercooler size looks ok but the piping looks horrific supirised it's not damaged that engine
Wouldn't go too big either as that's just bad for boost
Look on 600bhp evos at the Intercooler pipe work, it's not that big, about same as mine, stock size is what u need
Folk that go too big are making things worse bit like havin a too big Intercooler
Basically listen to what ess three said
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I wonder if this installation runs a lambda sensor and Cat?
no lambda and no cat :laugh:
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where u located ?
shetland islands
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a bam engine with a throttle cable?
im beginning to think that might be an aum (?) with a s3/tt manifold!
100% definitely a BAM as its stamped on the top of the engine
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mine runs no Cat either but i do run lambda sensors and all other sensors
i run on the Audi S3 ECU :cool: but much dofferent set up to you as i have the RS2 Turbo, manifolds and a External wastegate plus fully forged internals
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yeh i went to have a look at you build thread but i think it will take me quite a while to read :laugh: i was really just interested in how it was all meant to run with half the sensors missing :grin: but it does run and it goes well for what is a basically standard engine, i was thinking of upgrading the TIP and sorting the intercooler then getting it mapped to run properly on 95ron fuel as we dont get super unleaded here :angry:
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quick question what does this sensor do it has a pipe that runs into the underside of the inlet manifold, the wiring looks aftermarket and was wondering if this could be the relocated map sensor??
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000150paint.jpg)
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I wonder if this installation runs a lambda sensor and Cat?
no lambda and no cat :laugh:
So it's running with no protection...and no means of measuring and compensating for mixture. Odd...and risky.
It must have an external MAP sensor as the Emerald ECU needs one to run a turbo application properly.
I know the Emerald ECU will let you tun a lambda sensor.
But assuming it's mapped open loop and Alpha-n...it still needs a MAP...unless its running on wastegate pressure only :rolleyes:
I'd give your installation a good dose of looking at before you go much further...or it could be costly.
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quick question what does this sensor do it has a pipe that runs into the underside of the inlet manifold, the wiring looks aftermarket and was wondering if this could be the relocated map sensor??
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r301/hobbiniho/P1000150paint.jpg)
I saw that previously and wondered the same.
My guess it yeah.
Is there a flexible hose that goes from it to the inlet manifold somewhere?
Or the pipework?
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the sensor in the pic on mine is a EGT probe and a must have item (at least o factory ECU)
thats only sensor i have in that area it has a braided line coming from it, does yours ? i say this because yours looks different to mine
here is what mine is like (off the car)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img210/1394/img4543.png)
running on 95 fuel is not ideal for this engine.. cant you get octain boost stuff in your area ??
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The sensor in question has a rubber hose connected to it...and looks like a Marelli MAP sensor to me.
95 octane is fine if you map accordingly...I had a 265 BHP/305 lb-ft 95 octane map on my S3 and it was just fine.
With a decent IC set up you can still get decent numbers safely on a K04 1.8T.
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Octane boost does not work!!! Proven on a rolling road!
Shell v power is the best we can get
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Audi recommend higher octane than 95 for this engine
higher octaine helps power
But...
also better to prevent Knock, and seen as he has no knock control id be wanting to use the best fuel i could
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Audi recommend higher octane than 95 for this engine
higher octaine helps power
But...
also better to prevent Knock, and seen as he has no knock control id be wanting to use the best fuel i could
True...for a standard ECU.
It's only and engine...you can map it for 91 octane if you had to.
He can't get 98...so properly mapped on 95 it will be just fine...only losing 5-10 BHP/lb-ft right on the limits.
I agree on the knock protection though...so it will need to be mapped sympathetically.
260ish BHP will be plenty for a Mk3's archaic chassis to be dealing with...it'll not be slow with that sort of power.
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as iv said it will be getting mapped for 95 as that is all i can get i know a few people with scoobies,evos,skylines that have had to get there cars mapped for 95 as octane additives dont work and its not worth taking the risk, when i get it mapped i wont be going for all out power i want a nice smooth delivery so it is actually driveable, as it is i can still hit the shift light in fifth without too much bother :whistle:
The sensor in question has a rubber hose connected to it...and looks like a Marelli MAP sensor to me.
95 octane is fine if you map accordingly...I had a 265 BHP/305 lb-ft 95 octane map on my S3 and it was just fine.
With a decent IC set up you can still get decent numbers safely on a K04 1.8T.
gold star to that man :wink: http://www.emeraldm3d.com/map-sensors.html (http://www.emeraldm3d.com/map-sensors.html)
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when i had the ko4 turbo i had mine mapped fro drivability by carbon 9who did a outstanding custom map (around 96 runs were mad on the rolling road)
it was around the 260 bhp mark with 300lbft
and it FLEW!!! kept up with everything i came across
but that was mapped with V power
but yeah, a good map on the k04 and they do fly in the mk3 shell
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yeh it flies at the moment but the power delivery is very sudden and makes it a nightmare to drive i was really just wanting to get it breathing a bit better and then alter the map to suit im sure the badger 5 intake pipe will make a difference compared to the standard one :cool:
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the badger pipes are a rip off IMO, made no difference on my mates S3, they are bigger but the ko4 turbo inlet is small, so the badger pipe has a big boss with a tiny hole in it for the turbo, unless you got it cheap, a decent silicone TIP would have been as good. i dont care hwat tests they claim to have made to them, sometimes people tell you what u want to hear to get a sale
what i did with my RS2 turbo, is cut my silicone TIP in half and i have a metal pipe same bore as turbo right into it, so my tip is big right up to the turbo and the turbo inlet is the same size
id rather be spending money on a 008 and replacing the breather lines for silicone ones as these a prone to give these engines issues and boost leaks = loss of power
the aggressive low down power delivery you mention is down to the map