GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: VW BUSH on 14 January 2012, 20:24
-
Where does every one sit apart from Hadrian's wall?
I think we should have a federal system like the USA with a federal Government in London and regional parliaments in each country with real state powers, not sure if I like the idea of the uk breaking up.
I think I would seriously consider moving to Scotland if it split away as it would be a damn site cheaper and less populated than the remaining 2 thirds :lipsrsealed:
Discuss
-
I say let em piss off, they will then have to have uni tuition fees, higher tax's, everything will cost alot more. Then the scots will resent the government and the will re join England Ireland and Wales
-
I say let em piss off, they will then have to have uni tuition fees, higher tax's, everything will cost alot more. Then the scots will resent the government and the will re join England Ireland and Wales
Scotland has very low debt and will have the majority north sea oil it would take piss poor financial management to squander all of that, something which Scott's are not famed for (if your being stereo typical)
A lot of the Scott's at our Lanarkshire factory think its a bad idea but all agree the current system is flawed for the whole uk :smiley:
-
if scotland go they will be going back to the stone age without england lol only joking you scots if they want out let them
-
i think you will find that the majority of north sea oil [ which is running out ] is owned by norway britain and the dutch, iirc if worked out scotland if independant would own 11%. personally couldnt give a flying fook what salmond would do, as a nation i think scots are awesome and generally all round good eggs, as with all there are arses but the good far outweigh the bad. i think we should solve it with a game of murderball or british bulldog :grin:
-
ive not seen/heard any particularly good arguments for leaving the uk, let alone any (probably dodgy) figures. Seems a bit silly and backwards, not very matey!
-
i think you will find that the majority of north sea oil [ which is running out ] is owned by norway britain and the dutch,
Is it?
There is at least as much down there as has been produced over the last 30+ years...so I wouldn't worry too much about it trying up anytime soon.
-
Well when it runs out we will just invade another coutry like they have now lol
-
i think you will find that the majority of north sea oil [ which is running out ] is owned by norway britain and the dutch,
Is it?
There is at least as much down there as has been produced over the last 30+ years...so I wouldn't worry too much about it trying up anytime soon.
With the cost going up it makes the previously untapped reserves even more viable, running out has a portion of to expensive to get in the meaning....
I don't expect the oil to run out in the next few years....
ive not seen/heard any particularly good arguments for leaving the uk, let alone any (probably dodgy) figures. Seems a bit silly and backwards, not very matey!
I agree, but I also think the current system can be sustained.
A UK made up of four States with self government over budget and law under a federal parliament in london makes sense to me.
If we split up I think we would all be worse off in Europe.
-
Load of BS to be fair. Like politics!! Independence is never total independance, it can't be. Scotland's political system is as rubbish as any other and total scottish independence can never be achieved so whatever happens will be for the good of government and its derivatives i.e corporations, not for the people. I still chuckle at those who believe they can fight for a better future through politics given its history of constantly letting us down. A country run by the people for the people is a million miles away but Scotland with its low population and abundance of resources does hold so much potential. Scotland should not need to rely on oil as its primary source of energy. I love this country, not for historical or patriotic reasons, I just love it for what it is and couldn't care if its independent or not I just want it to be run super efficiently and for the good of all the people but as you can guess i'm not a fan of those who are currently supposedly running it.
-
if they were to go independent, would I need a passport to go to scotland? That would be weird.
-
if they were to go independent, would I need a passport to go to scotland? That would be weird.
Most likely and yes very weird
-
I see lots of potential problems with this.
First of all, if they're no longer under Sovereign, would they need to change currency?
As I don't think they'd still use the pound, would they go Euro?
And what about the impact of all the Scottish regiments leaving the military?
Would they still be able to use the BBC?
It would also cost them a fortune in admin for setting up their own tax offices, collection, seperate NHS admin, military, consulates, embassies, passports etc.
-
Stupid idea. The rest of Europe is trying to pull together and become one for many good reasons and there is Scotland trying to f#ck it all up :rolleyes: Pull their EU passports, impose sanctions on them and stand over the border pulling tongues at them :tongue: :tongue: until they send all their women over here for... actually, they can keep their women :sick:
Would they still be able to use the BBC?
Screw the c#nts overs and charge them for it :evil:
-
If scotland want to leave the UK, theycan take their fair share of the UK debt too. The oil is running out and at the moment doesn't bring in as much money as it used to. Besides, oil is worth bugger all if you don't know how to process it - the oil companies do this.
They would also have no place in parliament so they couldn't have a say on any issues. Scotland also have a higher spend per person because of no tuition fees, free prescriptions etc. All of the military installations would have to be moved, so fewer people in Scotland.
Going back to debt, the UK is £1 trillion in debt. They would have to take with them at least 10% of the debt. That's around £100 billion. Don't forget there's interest to pay on that debt. Income from oil is around £12 billion. No idea what public expenditure is in Scotland. It just isn't going to work.
The problem is Scotland want all the oil fields (including some of those that belong to England), and none of the debt. Well they can feck off. If they want independence, they can have some of the debt too.
-
if they were to go independent, would I need a passport to go to scotland? That would be weird.
in that case its a good thing i visited Scotland back in 2006,just loved it :cool:
-
I'm really confused in all of this.
I'm aware Westminster haven't yet deemed it as legal to have a vote, however, it does all seem to progressing with a good head of steam. At what point are NI going to kick off about this? Certain people have - violently - been campaigning for it to be part of Ireland again with no result, yet Scotland mention they want out and it seems to be moving swiftly along?
-
Would be weird for me as I have lived in England for 28 years now if they went independent would I need a visa to stay in England lol
I think they should be allowed to have the vote & be allowed to have the vote when they want to have it.
-
I'm really confused in all of this.
I'm aware Westminster haven't yet deemed it as legal to have a vote, however, it does all seem to progressing with a good head of steam. At what point are NI going to kick off about this? Certain people have - violently - been campaigning for it to be part of Ireland again with no result, yet Scotland mention they want out and it seems to be moving swiftly along?
NI are the opposite, the Protestant population want union and some of the Catholics want to be part of Eire.
Eire dropped its claim on the counties of Northern Ireland as part of the GFA so that peace could be pursued, so the violence is carried out by a dwindling few.
It is quite alarming to see how many people have died in this conflict since 1921, something which should be avoided in this case at all costs
Scotland can propose this vote due its position after devolution and it is a democratic right but if we gave them back only the bits without the oil ports like Aberdeen then I am sure there would some blood spilled.
The fairest and safest way to sort this out is to give Scotland some other options and allow a fair democratic vote and stick by its outcome.
If Scotland gets to vote I think we should get our referendum on Europe, which Bliar promised the same year he promised devolution to the Scott's....
I think if the UK splits into just England, then the single European state is a certainty and we will be forced to join like it or not, or we could become part of the USA "Old England" :grin:
-
a 'independant' scotland will just be another b!tch for the big EU boys to play with :wink:
anyone been up there lately? every new building/road or factory has been subsidised by the eu,every tourist board sign has the eu flag before or over the scottish flag,every hotel has at least 1 eu rag flying from its flag poles (your'll hardly ever see a cross of st George!).you can bet your house on the fact that the eu are pulling that knob salmonds strings,he wants to go down in scottish folk law as the man who got 'independance' from us nasty English, but as with ALL politicans,he's just a clever talker who's pulling the wool over the ignorant masses who hate the English as a pass time and are to daft to look at the bigger picture that will come with 'independance'.
i support the union thats kept all 4 nations safe for 300 odd years,but the world is,sadly,changing,so if they get a yes vote,and its legal,see ya,enjoy using the euro and having even more of your laws imposed on ya by the eussr :kiss:
-
I reckon our four nations are strongest when united under the UK. Friendly banter between us is a good laugh but i fear that salmond is trying to cause resentment. Annoyingly, the union parties have only now begun to take notice of him but maybe better late than never because there are some serious flaws in the guys proposals and he's crooked as they come.
I love being Scottish, I love being British, and Salmond's an ass. The man looks like there are two caterpillars fighting on his forehead.
-
The man looks like there are two caterpillars fighting on his forehead.
:laugh: :laugh:
-
Seriously funny people saying oil is running out im a downhole tools engineer in the norh sea and in 6 mths we have tapped 2 wells with more oil pottential than the brent fields which have been producing for 35 yrs load of crap there is plenty and now we can get deeper and finding new and better ways to flow existing wells!!! Bigger companies are pulling out due to the fact the money made vs tax etc is not worth it but to smaller companies its still huge money.....as a scotsman its stupid to go for independence!!!
-
Indeed...Peak oil is a myth. Although modern society really should be as dependant on it as we are.
-
Reduction in oil produced/refined is real (peak oil), the amount we have is still enough to keep us running for a very very long time.
-
I dont think they should do it tbh, but if they do then it should be 100%, they have their own military, police, tax etc
-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150737757247#ht_500wt_1156
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
-
:grin:
-
Reduction in oil produced/refined is real (peak oil), the amount we have is still enough to keep us running for a very very long time.
mate most of the reduction is due to the government taxing the industry to the max many conpanies have suspended there drilling programes to concentrate on foreign sources as they dont get taxed like they do in the uk.... total is about to double production at st fergus in scotland nobody knows what we have left as ee find new ways of tapping areas we couldnt before... as i said due to tax its not worth certain companies producing at smaller rates so they simply stop
-
Oil isnt the problem anyway.. plenty left.
Imigration, dole monkeys, benifit wasters, free housing+cars for layabouts and tbh people going to uni to do mikey mouse degrees like film studys, history of shakespear and art history from 19oatcake that scottish taxpayers pay for... these problems in scotland and the uk need sorted out, not dicking about with independance...
Apologies for being rude, but i work hard as f*uck and sure all you do also.. and to see taxes wasted sickens me :grin:
in my opinion those things need sorted and are a bigger issue than independancd..
-
Aye...send them all down the mines to work.
Oh...hang on.
1 Billion tonnes of coal discovered beneath Swansea Bay. :rolleyes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-16567883
-
Oil isnt the problem anyway.. plenty left.
Imigration, dole monkeys, benifit wasters, free housing+cars for layabouts and tbh people going to uni to do mikey mouse degrees like film studys, history of shakespear and art history from 19oatcake that scottish taxpayers pay for... these problems in scotland and the uk need sorted out, not dicking about with independance...
Apologies for being rude, but i work hard as f*uck and sure all you do also.. and to see taxes wasted sickens me :grin:
in my opinion those things need sorted and are a bigger issue than independancd..
Nail hit firmly on head.
Bravo!!
-
Oil isnt the problem anyway.. plenty left.
Imigration, dole monkeys, benifit wasters, free housing+cars for layabouts and tbh people going to uni to do mikey mouse degrees like film studys, history of shakespear and art history from 19oatcake that scottish taxpayers pay for... these problems in scotland and the uk need sorted out, not dicking about with independance...
Apologies for being rude, but i work hard as f*uck and sure all you do also.. and to see taxes wasted sickens me :grin:
in my opinion those things need sorted and are a bigger issue than independancd..
bravo mate!!!
-
Its funny just about every Scott I have spoken to is dead against the idea, which i must say gives me some faith in the country.
-
£270bn debt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9018567/Independent-Scotland-would-have-270bn-debt-pile.html
-
I am a Scot.
The more I look into this the more I distrust, and to put it bluntly dislike, the approach of Alex Salmond. His behaviour is giving me the impression that he thinks he is the saviour of Scotland, and that Scotland is a people united behind him.
On both points I think he is entirely misled. Whilst I will never pass up an opportunity to have a jibe at our southern neighbours :grin:, I am fully of the belief that Scotland functions better as part of the United Kingdom and, alongside my Scottish national pride, I also feel proud to be part of the United Kingdom. I do not for one minute wish to be separated from the United Kingdom. I believe the step would be backwards and also, to be perfectly honest, petty.
Of all my friends and family, I can't think of one who would genuinely disagree with what I have outlined above. Yet I am becoming increasingly apprehensive that, should a referendum occur, Scotland may indeed leave the United Kingdom purely due to the misleading propoganda of the Scottish Nationalists and their play on national pride.
-
Where does the royal family stand on this? Is there not close ties blood aswell with scots and brits?
Just found this!
The Parliament and the Scottish Ministers who make up the Government are elected for a fixed term. For the first three terms it was four years, for the current 2011-16 term it is five years.
The latest election was held on May 5, 2011. The Scottish National Party (SNP) won a majority of the seats and formed the Government with Alex Salmond returning as First Minister, having held the position for the four years of the previous administration.
Devolved powers are Health, Education and Training, Local Government, Social Work, Housing, Planning, Tourism, Economic Development, Law and Home Affairs, Police and Fire, The Environment, Natural and Built Heritage, Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Sport and The Arts, Statistics, Transport.
Reserved powers are Foreign Affairs, Defence and National Security, and Social Security.
In January 2012, the Scottish Government confirmed its intention to hold a referendum on Scottish independence in the autumn of 2014.
The Scottish Government was known as the Scottish Executive until the name was changed in September 2007.
-
Where does the royal family stand on this? Is there not close ties blood aswell with scots and brits?
The royal family are greek & german :grin:
-
Where does the royal family stand on this? Is there not close ties blood aswell with scots and brits?
The royal family are greek & german :grin:
House of Stuart/Stewart?
Just thought the King James had some connection to royals?
Palace of Holyroodhouse
The Palace of Holyroodhouse, commonly known as Holyrood Palace, in Edinburgh is the Queen’s official residence in Scotland. The palace is situated at the end of the famous Royal Mile, which extends up to Edinburgh Castle. Mary, Queen of Scots lived here between 1561 and 1567, and successive kings and queens have made this their premier residence in Scotland.
The Queen has an official Holyrood Week, which runs from the end of June to the beginning of July. During this week the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh entertain guests at an annual garden party, a tradition that dates back to King George V and Queen Mary. The ceremony is attended by guests from all walks of Scottish life.
The Palace is open to visitors, and an exhibition of Royal photography is on display until June.
Visit the Palace of Holyroodhouse
Balmoral Castle
Balmoral Castle, in Royal Deeside, Aberdeenshire, has been the Scottish home of the Royal Family since it was purchased for Queen Victoria by Prince Albert in 1848. Much loved by Queen Victoria, she Balmoral in her journals as “my dear paradise in the Highlands”.
The Royal Family are usually in residence between September and the beginning of October, where the grounds are closed to the public.
Many royals have spent part of their honey moon at Balmoral, including The Queen and Prince Phillip, Prince Charles and the late Princess Diana, Prince Edward and Sophie the Countess of Wessex, and Prince Charles and Camilla the Duchess of Cornwall.
In 1992 Princess Anne married Timothy Laurence in Crathie Kirk, which lies close to Balmoral. The Kirk is best known for its regular attendance by the Royal Family who worship here during their stays at the castle.
Visit Balmoral Castle
Glamis Castle
Glamis Castle, in Angus, has been the family home of the Earls of Strathmore for over 600 years. Glamis was the childhood home of the Queen Mother, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, whose parents were Lord and Lady Glamis. At the age of four, Elizabeth’s grandfather, who was the current Earl, passed away and her father inherited the Earldom and with it Glamis Castle. The family then divided their time between Glamis Castle and two other royal residences.
Glamis has many stories and legends attached to it and is thought to be one of the most haunted castles in Britain.
-
Reduction in oil produced/refined is real (peak oil), the amount we have is still enough to keep us running for a very very long time.
mate most of the reduction is due to the government taxing the industry to the max many conpanies have suspended there drilling programes to concentrate on foreign sources as they dont get taxed like they do in the uk.... total is about to double production at st fergus in scotland nobody knows what we have left as ee find new ways of tapping areas we couldnt before... as i said due to tax its not worth certain companies producing at smaller rates so they simply stop
I know and that's what my post implied, that the amount of oil drilled per year has gone down over the years on a global scale - although this may not represent a small local scale in some areas, where the big boys have left and the smaller companies have come in to suck out the rest :smiley:
No matter, Scotland leaving the UK shouldn't happen for many reasons and if they did it'd f#ck up a lot.
-
The current system of economics and politics are failing. Cost of living constantly on the rise!! Its a bleak future for all of us and I dread to think what our future generations will have to deal with. Scottish independance won't change anything for the better in regards to these. We will still be under EU control and we will still be under an economy created out of debt, wether it be the pound or the euro its still fiat currency. People blame 'dole merchants' as a bad mark on society but they don't relise that these are inherent parts of society, like bankruptsy is an inherent part of economics. One mans triumph is anothers failure, that is the letter of tha law. There is never enough money or jobs to give everyone a secure way of life, and there never will be. Ever!! There is problems in Scotland the same as any other country but by becoming independant from the UK won't change a thing and do more damage than good. Like said before, economics and politics and the way they come together is the fundamantal problem with every other issue in modern society. Basically because both have run their course and have not moved forward and have no plans in doing so.
-
Where does the royal family stand on this? Is there not close ties blood aswell with scots and brits?
The royal family are greek & german :grin:
Very German yes but the Greek bit is a bit of banter really
Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich, was born Prince of Greece and Denmark in Corfu on 10 June 1921.
He was born the only son of Prince Andrew of Greece. His paternal family is of Danish descent - Prince Andrew was the grandson of King Christian IX of Denmark.
His mother was Princess Alice of Battenberg, the eldest child of Prince Louis of Battenberg and sister of Earl Mountbatten of Burma. Prince Louis became a naturalised British subject in 1868, joined the Royal Navy and rose to become an Admiral of the Fleet and First Sea Lord in 1914.
During the First World War Prince Louis changed the family name to Mountbatten and was created Marquess of Milford Haven. Prince Philip adopted the family name of Mountbatten when he became a naturalised British subject and renounced his Royal title in 1947.
Prince Louis married one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters. Thus, The Queen and Prince Philip both have Queen Victoria as a great-great-grandmother. They are also related through his father's side. His paternal grandfather, King George I of Greece, was Queen Alexandra's brother.
Prince Philip is as much Greek as he is Danish or English
So the Queens husband is from the same German family line, in keeping with the British trend of marrying ones distant relatives....... :grin:
Adding to this George I was the first of the Queens German line (Hanoverian), he was 50'th in line to the throne and the best candidate from the Stewart (Scottish) line due to his protestant faith.......
-
WHy did i just read all that??
you boring cnut!! :grin:
-
Where does the royal family stand on this? Is there not close ties blood aswell with scots and brits?
The royal family are greek & german :grin:
Very German yes but the Greek bit is a bit of banter really
Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich, was born Prince of Greece and Denmark in Corfu on 10 June 1921.
He was born the only son of Prince Andrew of Greece. His paternal family is of Danish descent - Prince Andrew was the grandson of King Christian IX of Denmark.
His mother was Princess Alice of Battenberg, the eldest child of Prince Louis of Battenberg and sister of Earl Mountbatten of Burma. Prince Louis became a naturalised British subject in 1868, joined the Royal Navy and rose to become an Admiral of the Fleet and First Sea Lord in 1914.
During the First World War Prince Louis changed the family name to Mountbatten and was created Marquess of Milford Haven. Prince Philip adopted the family name of Mountbatten when he became a naturalised British subject and renounced his Royal title in 1947.
Prince Louis married one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters. Thus, The Queen and Prince Philip both have Queen Victoria as a great-great-grandmother. They are also related through his father's side. His paternal grandfather, King George I of Greece, was Queen Alexandra's brother.
Prince Philip is as much Greek as he is Danish or English
So the Queens husband is from the same German family line, in keeping with the British trend of marrying ones distant relatives....... :grin:
Adding to this George I was the first of the Queens German line (Hanoverian), he was 50'th in line to the throne and the best candidate from the Stewart (Scottish) line due to his protestant faith.......
The royal family have so much interest in Scotland most of there homes are based there so point missed plus there still is Stuart/Stewart Mary queen of Scotts connection. :tongue:
-
So basically they are inbred Germans :lipsrsealed:
-
So basically they are inbred Germans :lipsrsealed:
Yes with distant links to the Scottish Stewart family tree, and dare I say their own sister fckin tendancies :grin:
The Queen mother was the last non Royal non German to marry into the the family for about 100 years.
She was born into Scottish nobility, so you could say the Queen is more Scottish than any of the other home nations......
Where does the royal family stand on this? Is there not close ties blood aswell with scots and brits?
The royal family are greek & german :grin:
Very German yes but the Greek bit is a bit of banter really
Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich, was born Prince of Greece and Denmark in Corfu on 10 June 1921.
He was born the only son of Prince Andrew of Greece. His paternal family is of Danish descent - Prince Andrew was the grandson of King Christian IX of Denmark.
His mother was Princess Alice of Battenberg, the eldest child of Prince Louis of Battenberg and sister of Earl Mountbatten of Burma. Prince Louis became a naturalised British subject in 1868, joined the Royal Navy and rose to become an Admiral of the Fleet and First Sea Lord in 1914.
During the First World War Prince Louis changed the family name to Mountbatten and was created Marquess of Milford Haven. Prince Philip adopted the family name of Mountbatten when he became a naturalised British subject and renounced his Royal title in 1947.
Prince Louis married one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters. Thus, The Queen and Prince Philip both have Queen Victoria as a great-great-grandmother. They are also related through his father's side. His paternal grandfather, King George I of Greece, was Queen Alexandra's brother.
Prince Philip is as much Greek as he is Danish or English
So the Queens husband is from the same German family line, in keeping with the British trend of marrying ones distant relatives....... :grin:
Adding to this George I was the first of the Queens German line (Hanoverian), he was 50'th in line to the throne and the best candidate from the Stewart (Scottish) line due to his protestant faith.......
The royal family have so much interest in Scotland most of there homes are based there so point missed plus there still is Stuart/Stewart Mary queen of Scotts connection. :tongue:
I did point out the Stewart connection in my rambling royal dictate but was trying keep the reading down :grin:
-
From what I have seen in the past the money & coins have remained with the queens head regardless of independence from England.
There would be a logistical nightmare if another mint would have to produce Scotish money, open to loads of possible conterfiting.
-
Just heard on The World at One on Radio 4 that the SNP wan't to take 10% of the UK armed forces with them for keeps - for the Scotland Defence Force. They justify this by saying that Scotland contributes 10% directly to Uk Tax revenue, so they want 10% of the Defence Budget.
So for starters they want the Royal Regiment Of Scotland, The Royal Scots Dragoons, The Scots Guards. etc...
But....and here's the kicker. They wan't the Faslane base out, but will not pay anything towards the costs.
Cake & eat it? :rolleyes:
-
From what I have seen in the past the money & coins have remained with the queens head regardless of independence from England.
There would be a logistical nightmare if another mint would have to produce Scotish money, open to loads of possible conterfiting.
You do realise scotland have different notes anyway, it may be legal sterling but the notes are bank of scotland not bank of england.
It does make me laugh that people think the Scottish are too stupid to run their own country & print their own money :grin:
-
they'll be using the euro within a year of 'independance' :wink:
-
they'll be using the euro within a year of 'independance' :wink:
Dont be silly the euro won't survive another year :shocked: well not if things carry on the way they are at the moment !
-
they'll be using the euro within a year of 'independance' :wink:
Dont be silly the euro won't survive another year :shocked: well not if things carry on the way they are at the moment !
good point,meant to put that after my comment!! :shocked:
-
From what I have seen in the past the money & coins have remained with the queens head regardless of independence from England.
There would be a logistical nightmare if another mint would have to produce Scotish money, open to loads of possible conterfiting.
You do realise scotland have different notes anyway, it may be legal sterling but the notes are bank of scotland not bank of england.
It does make me laugh that people think the Scottish are too stupid to run their own country & print their own money :grin:
Coins are the same though right?
And yes Scottish people aren't stupid, just politicians who want a global platform to serve their own arses :wink:
-
From what I have seen in the past the money & coins have remained with the queens head regardless of independence from England.
There would be a logistical nightmare if another mint would have to produce Scotish money, open to loads of possible conterfiting.
You do realise scotland have different notes anyway, it may be legal sterling but the notes are bank of scotland not bank of england.
It does make me laugh that people think the Scottish are too stupid to run their own country & print their own money :grin:
The Bank of Scotland is part of Lloyds Banking Group. Which I'm sure you're all aware is now mostly owned by the taxpayer.
Good luck getting it back.
:grin:
-
Coins are the same though right?
And yes Scottish people aren't stupid
Same coins
Obviously we are not as we invented everything worth inventing :cool:
-
From what I have seen in the past the money & coins have remained with the queens head regardless of independence from England.
There would be a logistical nightmare if another mint would have to produce Scotish money, open to loads of possible conterfiting.
You do realise scotland have different notes anyway, it may be legal sterling but the notes are bank of scotland not bank of england.
It does make me laugh that people think the Scottish are too stupid to run their own country & print their own money :grin:
The Bank of Scotland is part of Lloyds Banking Group. Which I'm sure you're all aware is now mostly owned by the taxpayer.
Good luck getting it back.
:grin:
Fair point :grin: although technically Scottish people pay tax too so it is still there's in a small way :lipsrsealed:
-
Scotland deep in debt, going cap in hand to the Bank of England.
You've been there before....and where did it get you?
"......It was an economic disaster too. The company had lost over £232,884, made up of the life savings of many of the Scottish people. Scotland was now completely incapable of going it alone. Just 7 years after the failure at Darien, it was forced to concede to the Act of Union, joining Scotland with England as the junior partner in the united kingdom of Great Britain. As part of the deal, England paid off Scotland's debts with the 'Equivalent', a sum of £398,000, most of which went to cover the Company of Scotland's losses. The institution established to administer this money eventually became the Royal Bank of Scotland."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme
-
From what I have seen in the past the money & coins have remained with the queens head regardless of independence from England.
There would be a logistical nightmare if another mint would have to produce Scotish money, open to loads of possible conterfiting.
You do realise scotland have different notes anyway, it may be legal sterling but the notes are bank of scotland not bank of england.
It does make me laugh that people think the Scottish are too stupid to run their own country & print their own money :grin:
The Bank of Scotland is part of Lloyds Banking Group. Which I'm sure you're all aware is now mostly owned by the taxpayer.
Good luck getting it back.
:grin:
Fair point :grin: although technically Scottish people pay tax too so it is still there's in a small way :lipsrsealed:
What about the hundreds of thousand english people who are pay what you call taxes in Scotland? I'm sure the percentages are looking a tad poor if you segregate to that degree?
-
What about the hundreds of thousand english people who are pay what you call taxes in Scotland? I'm sure the percentages are looking a tad poor if you segregate to that degree?
You lost me there? what hundreds of thousands of english people are paying scottish tax
-
What I was saying is there is lots of English people working in Scotland you start segregating who pays what taxes Scottish and English you might see a flow of English leaving Scotland or staying, but paying English taxes i.e converting the money supply from Scotland back to Pounds if new monies where to be used!
then we need to see how much flows out of a new soverign Scotland vs what they get as a collective English tax system?
-
What I was saying is there is lots of English people working in Scotland you start segregating who pays what taxes Scottish and English you might see a flow of English leaving Scotland or staying, but paying English taxes i.e converting the money supply from Scotland back to Pounds if new monies where to be used!
then we need to see how much flows out of a new soverign Scotland vs what they get as a collective English tax system?
There is probably more Scots working & living in England but to be fair but I can't see Scotland ever becoming fully independant anyway so the whole discussion is irelevant.
I would say though if it happened that if you work in a country you pay tax in that country no matter where you are from so your point doesn't really work :lipsrsealed:
-
What I think Jay is getting at is the Polish phenomenon..do do dododo..do do do do!..
i.e. yes they pay tax, but they send all their money back to Poland where it is spent.
-
What I think Jay is getting at is the Polish phenomenon..do do dododo..do do do do!..
i.e. yes they pay tax, but they send all their money back to Poland where it is spent.
Bit of a sweeping statement about Polish people as i know quite a few who spend their money here but yes i understand what you mean :cool:
-
What I was saying is there is lots of English people working in Scotland you start segregating who pays what taxes Scottish and English you might see a flow of English leaving Scotland or staying, but paying English taxes i.e converting the money supply from Scotland back to Pounds if new monies where to be used!
then we need to see how much flows out of a new soverign Scotland vs what they get as a collective English tax system?
There is probably more Scots working & living in England but to be fair but I can't see Scotland ever becoming fully independant anyway so the whole discussion is irelevant.
I would say though if it happened that if you work in a country you pay tax in that country no matter where you are from so your point doesn't really work :lipsrsealed:
That depends upon the amount of tax being charged so quite relevant it affects money supply and treasury boxes "M0" plus what about NON PAYE's
Right whats the point......right?
-
Involuntary taxes should be abolished altogether.
-
DC has came out today to plead Scotland to stay. I am personally disappointed that he won't come up and canvas.
Alot of mixed messages here?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26071166
Is this still up for discussion? :)
-
DC has came out today to plead Scotland to stay. I am personally disappointed that he won't come up and canvas.
Alot of mixed messages here?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26071166
Is this still up for discussion? :)
You got to ask yourself why is he pleading for Scotland to stay if Scotland is such a money drainer as a lot of English people i know seem to think.
:shocked:
-
DC has came out today to plead Scotland to stay. I am personally disappointed that he won't come up and canvas.
Alot of mixed messages here?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26071166
Is this still up for discussion? :)
You got to ask yourself why is he pleading for Scotland to stay if Scotland is such a money drainer as a lot of English people i know seem to think.
:shocked:
Your right. Ive got to a stage now where I have stopped heavily debating about this because I don't think a concenious will ever be reached.
What I will say, if he wants Scotland to stay, he will need to do more than talk from the olympic park. Labour were wiped out in the last election for a good reason in Scotland and it will be difficult to halt the SNP train.
We still have 6 months or so, so we will see what he brings out the bag.
Edit...just to add. SNP will be removing the bedroom tax it we do get the vote, personally, I think this is a tac the SNP are using which isnt right but I am confident will get the snp a % of vote.
-
It's pretty obvious what this is all about..
Andy Murray
-
The real farce in all this is the voting rules!
Only people living in Scotland can vote.
So all the Scots living down here because they cant get any work up there cannot vote.
But any Foreigner that is currently living in Scotland can vote!
-
I want Scotland to stay, I like them and all the other nations in the current UK.
If Scotland go for independance then fair play.
I would say that the SNP are trading on a protest vote and dont have any real answers to the situation Scotland and the rest of the country as it today finds itself in.
The weakness in the UK political system is open to knee jerk parties like the SNP and UKIP as the traditional Labour, Lib and Tory directions have failed and continue to fail us. (I think we should all be voting on a republic with radical changes in the way we govern but thats my own personal opinion.....)
As in history once the shine has dimmed on the 'Revolution' you will find yourselves being bent over by politicians in Edinburgh rather than Westminster and paying suplication to the new masters in Brussels.
Independance will not change the top 1% of Scotland earning the wealth and the rest of you getting F all, this is a global trend not one created in London.
In reference to the lastest posts, sending Cameron up to Scotland to campaign on the no vote is handing the together vote a body blow from the SNP, send up Millband and cleggy with him and its sure knock out :grin:
I can fully see why the Scots are buying this crad from the SNP because the sh!te in westminster does not offer much more in the way of substance.
Just remember Salmond or the ministers of the SNP or for that matter any of the new MP's in a new Scottish government wont be hard up for cash when the rest of you are starving, just like it is now with westminster.
They wont get made redundant and they will make enough money and connections during their terms in office to ensure they dont feel the effects of any economic down turn or social unrest, they will most likely be in the top 1% before they even become an MSP.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
-
It's pretty obvious what this is all about..
Andy Murray
:grin:
-
It's pretty obvious what this is all about..
Andy Murray
:grin:
lol
-
Right which one of you buggers south of Hadrian's wall is responsible for our new strip :grin: :grin:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-scotland-adidas-football-shirt-looks-like-sherbet-dip-ice-cream-sundae-1438022
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o15PljTS2O8
-
Right which one of you buggers south of Hadrian's wall is responsible for our new strip :grin: :grin:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-scotland-adidas-football-shirt-looks-like-sherbet-dip-ice-cream-sundae-1438022
More Gay Pride than Scottish Pride, need to see it with a ginger wig to judge it properly :grin:
-
Right which one of you buggers south of Hadrian's wall is responsible for our new strip :grin: :grin:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-scotland-adidas-football-shirt-looks-like-sherbet-dip-ice-cream-sundae-1438022
My lord...I am lost for words. Only now we get a glimmer of hope on the quailty of football we play going into the euros and then they release this kit.
If I do get a new scotland top it will be for doing the oil changes on the golf.
-
Move along, nothing to see here................
:wink:
-
Just heard some women on the TV(Deputy First Minister for Scotland Nicola Sturgeon) telling me that if Scottish people want to safe guard the NHS they need to vote yes. WTF!! Its our National health service not yours, you are Scottish, pay for and get your own. Same for your Army, Navy, Air Force, University, schools, hospitals and social security and boy that will be a big bill.
I really don't mind Scots voting yes, just as long as once they vote they forfeit being in the common travel area,( which should be automatic) No currency union and check points and new border posts are set up, so they have to seek visa's to travel into the UK for not being in either the common travel area or the EU. Not in the EU? Ok no problem, duty has to be paid on everything that enters Scotland. Set up an Embassy and reduce relations to any country outside the EU and the common travel area status. Simple
I would like them to stay, but happy for them to go as long as when they do they don't get all the benefits of being part of the UK.
Then if it all goes wrong invade again and take back all they voted for with more reparations :whistle:
-
Meh.
-
Uk loses a limb if the Scottish f off.
Not good.
-
Crikey!
You all sound like Scotland will move to the Moon if it gains independence.
It'll still be there folks. Nothing will change.
-
Just heard some women on the TV(Deputy First Minister for Scotland Nicola Sturgeon) telling me that if Scottish people want to safe guard the NHS they need to vote yes. WTF!! Its our National health service not yours, you are Scottish, pay for and get your own. Same for your Army, Navy, Air Force, University, schools, hospitals and social security and boy that will be a big bill.
I really don't mind Scots voting yes, just as long as once they vote they forfeit being in the common travel area,( which should be automatic) No currency union and check points and new border posts are set up, so they have to seek visa's to travel into the UK for not being in either the common travel area or the EU. Not in the EU? Ok no problem, duty has to be paid on everything that enters Scotland. Set up an Embassy and reduce relations to any country outside the EU and the common travel area status. Simple
I would like them to stay, but happy for them to go as long as when they do they don't get all the benefits of being part of the UK.
Then if it all goes wrong invade again and take back all they voted for with more reparations :whistle:
Its called the big round negotiating table Jackie.
Unfortunatley, they did not sit round it prior to the vote.
-
I dont really give a hoot if they stay or go.
I just think they are completely deluded in their expectations of what an independant Scotland will be.
-
Andy Murray is out of the Open - I don't think any minds..
-
The biggest issue I have with the splintering of the United Kingdom is that it creates governments with smaller jurasdiction in a time when corporations are increasing in size and influence.
This means it becomes easier for these corporations to cup the balls of the governments and squeeze to get what they want, to the detriment of the citizens of the nations.
'better together' indeed.
-
The biggest issue I have with the splintering of the United Kingdom is that it creates governments with smaller jurasdiction in a time when corporations are increasing in size and influence.
This means it becomes easier for these corporations to cup the balls of the governments and squeeze to get what they want, to the detriment of the citizens of the nations.
'better together' indeed.
Something from a few years back by Mad Martyn
'One united kingdom the fancied wouldn't do
To please some grumbling Irishmen, they split it into two
Two little kingdoms, but then the Scots, you see
Claimed their anciant throne and rights, then they were three
Three little kingdoms but then one more
For Welshman claimed a parliament and then they were four
Four little kingdoms wouldn't do at all !
One of them was far too big; the others were too small'
And this is the price we'll pay
Take a lesson from your history
'Divide and conquer is the game they play'
And this is the price we'll pay
'All across Great Britain ancient hates revived
Cornwall wants to rule herself, and then they were five
Five little kingdoms, but London is a fix
Raised the 'southern english' flag, and then they were six
Six little kingdoms, the 'Home rule' heaven
Caused a rising in the West, and then they were seven
Seven little kingdoms Northmen wouldn't wait
Hailed Northumbria and then they were eight'
And this is the price we'll pay
Take a lesson from your history
'A house divided simply cannot stand'
And this is the price we'll pay
'And the towns that one may visit via the Eastern county line
Formed East Anglia and then they were nine
Nine little kingdoms never could agree
How to work together and so they went free
Ten little kingdoms too weak to stand alone
A foreign nation conquered them, then they were gone'
And this is the price we'll pay
Take a lesson from your history
'Devolution is the devil's ploy'
And this is the price we'll pay
-
Very good.
Although it'll be sodding Yorkshire next I should imagine. :grin:
-
Totally bombarded with yes/no propaganda up here. Yes and no signs in fields, gardens, windows, cars. Edjits knocking on your door trying to opinionate you. Sick to death of it to be fair. The whole thing's a joke. Nobody has anything set in stone to back themselves up.
-
Very good.
Although it'll be sodding Yorkshire next I should imagine. :grin:
Cornwall already has minority status under EU Law, they'll be first.
They'd get more revenue from pasties that the Scots from oil in the long run. :grin:
-
Very good.
Although it'll be sodding Yorkshire next I should imagine. :grin:
Cornwall already has minority status under EU Law, they'll be first.
They'd get more revenue from pasties that the Scots from oil in the long run. :grin:
Padstein will be the new Capital city with Rick the president.
The Cornish have a past affiliation with the Germans :grin:
Totally bombarded with yes/no propaganda up here. Yes and no signs in fields, gardens, windows, cars. Edjits knocking on your door trying to opinionate you. Sick to death of it to be fair. The whole thing's a joke. Nobody has anything set in stone to back themselves up.
I am sick of it too and I am south of London :grin:
Its just another thing Bliar did to ruin The UK, I kick myself that I voted for them back then it must have been all the E's and D-Ream used as the labour soundtrack that got me :lipsrsealed:...
If you vote Yes you will have Scots ruining your own economy if you vote no you have Westminster to blame instead.....
I give it ten years of SNP/Scottish Labour government before you start voting Conservative up there :grin:
-
That D-Ream song was catchy lol. Had a key change too which always gets you. :laugh:
Alot of the general opinion here is that we'll vote yes then if things don't get better we'll get rid of Salmond and the snp and vote someone else in. This is however all about Salmond and the snp. There going to be setting the standards and will implement whatever agenda they may have in collaboration the european commision and the big corporations. They're not going to step aside without a fight that's for sure.
Although i'm hot fussed about which way it goes, independence would be nice if it was truly that but on the other hand it's ye old 'divide and conquer' and further separating ourselves from what is literally the other half of the island. On the surface it makes little sense. The people of the uk and ireland deserve better as a whole and be better together under different political and financial circumstances. But that would require drastic revolutionary measures.
-
That D-Ream song was catchy lol. Had a key change too which always gets you. :laugh:
Alot of the general opinion here is that we'll vote yes then if things don't get better we'll get rid of Salmond and the snp and vote someone else in. This is however all about Salmond and the snp. There going to be setting the standards and will implement whatever agenda they may have in collaboration the european commision and the big corporations. They're not going to step aside without a fight that's for sure.
Although i'm hot fussed about which way it goes, independence would be nice if it was truly that but on the other hand it's ye old 'divide and conquer' and further separating ourselves from what is literally the other half of the island. On the surface it makes little sense. The people of the uk and ireland deserve better as a whole and be better together under different political and financial circumstances. But that would require drastic revolutionary measures.
Agreed the system as a whole needs a rethink, I would like to see a federated UK and an invite to Eire but more likely to find a rust free VW :grin:
Scotland should not keep the pound, not out of a vindictive swipe at Scotland from England but the Scots gaining proper independence from London.
The rUK Economy would dictate Scotland still for many years to come, Eire was a ruin for years by following the pound.
Scotland should have its own pound and negotiate the € if this is the wish of the people, that's if you get a choice....
I don't want the UK to break up, if it happens then I wish you all well and hope the Single Malt price is not affected down south :grin:
All this nationalism in Europe is not healthy......
-
...on a positive note. If Scotland became independent and then became very poor as the " We're doomed I tell thee" mongers spout forth, then just like Poland, all the men folk will leave to secure jobs to send home money to their weeee lassssieeessss.
All those single women and bored housewives. Just ripe for a border raid..
Either that or Scottish life will be like auf wiedersehen pet but with Scottish accents, staring Rab C Nesbit
-
rab c is way to old to build walls :grin:
-
I don't think they'll keep the pound anyway, if they get independence the pound wont last long, they've just kept that out of the discussion to get more yes votes as the thought of a whole new currency freaks people out so they're easing them into it gently.
But what do I know, it's interesting to watch though and Davey C must be panicking, who wants to go down in history as the PM who lost Scotland?
-
I don't think they'll keep the pound anyway, if they get independence the pound wont last long, they've just kept that out of the discussion to get more yes votes as the thought of a whole new currency freaks people out so they're easing them into it gently.
But what do I know, it's interesting to watch though and Davey C must be panicking, who wants to go down in history as the PM who lost Scotland?
Depends how you look at it...
If losing Scotland somehow massively benefits rUK, then nobody would be all that bothered, would they?
The only way people will give a poo is if it affects your average Joe, and I really dont see it affecting many non-scotts.
-
Lloyds dropping £1.7bn in a single morning of trading yesterday, says it all really.
All they have in terms of 'economic prosperity' is oil and gas, along with loads of little companies that support these industries. Alright, where exactly is BPs main office and trading floor? Tell me how you're going to see a penny of this when it is shipped straight to Merseyside to save the higher VAT you're proposing?
They then try to talk about there renewable sector as if it's about to explode up there. Why are Seimens (builders of 75% of Europes off-shore turbines) basing their EU operations in Humber ports and pumping £2bn into the area if the future is in Scotland?
There are so many holes in there bid for independence that I am actually worried for the Scottish people who salmond is trying and seemingly succeeding in fobbing off. Independent financial analysis consistently shows that every Scott will be £1.5k worse off each year, which doesn't account for the predicted slump in revenue from North sea oil that many predict.
In the end, it comes down to this for me: There are 5.3 million people living in Scotland, but 1 million Scots living in England, Ireland and Wales. Where is the work Mr Salmond?
-
Lloyds dropping £1.7bn in a single morning of trading yesterday, says it all really.
All they have in terms of 'economic prosperity' is oil and gas, along with loads of little companies that support these industries. Alright, where exactly is BPs main office and trading floor? Tell me how you're going to see a penny of this when it is shipped straight to Merseyside to save the higher VAT you're proposing?
They then try to talk about there renewable sector as if it's about to explode up there. Why are Seimens (builders of 75% of Europes off-shore turbines) basing their EU operations in Humber ports and pumping £2bn into the area if the future is in Scotland?
There are so many holes in there bid for independence that I am actually worried for the Scottish people who salmond is trying and seemingly succeeding in fobbing off. Independent financial analysis consistently shows that every Scott will be £1.5k worse off each year, which doesn't account for the predicted slump in revenue from North sea oil that many predict.
In the end, it comes down to this for me: There are 5.3 million people living in Scotland, but 1 million Scots living in England, Ireland and Wales. Where is the work Mr Salmond?
£3.6bn annual export of Whiskey. Not to be sniffed at.
Siemens chose the Humber, not over Scotland, but ..."Having considered port locations across Europe, Siemens selected Hull as their preferred location for a new wind turbine manufacturing site and export facility due to the port providing the best connectivity to three of the largest offshore wind turbines. This investment also forms part of a plan to create an offshore wind energy supply chain hub at the port, creating many jobs"
Matt Jukes, Associated British Ports’ Director
Siemens could have set up anywhere, the subsidy money they receive would be exactly the same. Plus its a deep water port and there are only 13 of those in the UK. Also there is shed load of cash going into the area to develop it as a green energy hub. I'm sure Siemens got some cash to go there.
The Oil and Gas fields in the North Sea would be in Scottish Territorial Waters after independence. Much like other countries that don't have/own oil platforms etc.. they would get a fee/% of the oil revenue, plus I would imagine all the refining capacity in Aberdeen would generate £££.
(http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr182/the_flying_elvi/_63654786_oilmap.gif) (http://s482.photobucket.com/user/the_flying_elvi/media/_63654786_oilmap.gif.html)
-
Lloyds dropping £1.7bn in a single morning of trading yesterday, says it all really.
All they have in terms of 'economic prosperity' is oil and gas, along with loads of little companies that support these industries. Alright, where exactly is BPs main office and trading floor? Tell me how you're going to see a penny of this when it is shipped straight to Merseyside to save the higher VAT you're proposing?
They then try to talk about there renewable sector as if it's about to explode up there. Why are Seimens (builders of 75% of Europes off-shore turbines) basing their EU operations in Humber ports and pumping £2bn into the area if the future is in Scotland?
There are so many holes in there bid for independence that I am actually worried for the Scottish people who salmond is trying and seemingly succeeding in fobbing off. Independent financial analysis consistently shows that every Scott will be £1.5k worse off each year, which doesn't account for the predicted slump in revenue from North sea oil that many predict.
In the end, it comes down to this for me: There are 5.3 million people living in Scotland, but 1 million Scots living in England, Ireland and Wales. Where is the work Mr Salmond?
In another view Sam,
there is 6 million in scotland; 65 million in the UK.
What costs more to run? What creates and simulates economies?
Link to your IDP Analysis (intrested in reading this)?
-
Right, my house is going independent. I am going to set my own Council Tax, Income Tax, and a biiiiggg f*** off fence is going up!
-
Lloyds dropping £1.7bn in a single morning of trading yesterday, says it all really.
All they have in terms of 'economic prosperity' is oil and gas, along with loads of little companies that support these industries. Alright, where exactly is BPs main office and trading floor? Tell me how you're going to see a penny of this when it is shipped straight to Merseyside to save the higher VAT you're proposing?
They then try to talk about there renewable sector as if it's about to explode up there. Why are Seimens (builders of 75% of Europes off-shore turbines) basing their EU operations in Humber ports and pumping £2bn into the area if the future is in Scotland?
There are so many holes in there bid for independence that I am actually worried for the Scottish people who salmond is trying and seemingly succeeding in fobbing off. Independent financial analysis consistently shows that every Scott will be £1.5k worse off each year, which doesn't account for the predicted slump in revenue from North sea oil that many predict.
In the end, it comes down to this for me: There are 5.3 million people living in Scotland, but 1 million Scots living in England, Ireland and Wales. Where is the work Mr Salmond?
In another view Sam,
there is 6 million in scotland; 65 million in the UK.
What costs more to run? What creates and simulates economies?
Link to your IDP Analysis (intrested in reading this)?
Larger populations cost more to run, but have larger potential to generate revenue. Swings and roundabouts.
-
On a positive note:
Life Expectancy (LE) is significantly worse (lower) in Scotland than in the UK as a whole, for both males and females. Healthy Life Expectancy (HLE) is significantly worse (lower) in Scotland than in the UK for males, but similar for females.
Scotland has one of the lowest LEs in Western Europe. International comparisons of HLE are hampered by the lack of consistent health measures. However, on the basis of a related indicator, healthy life years (HLY), it would appear that, in comparison with many European countries, Scotland fares badly for males but compares better for females.
Life expectancy (LE) is an estimate of how many years a person might be expected to live, whereas healthy life expectancy (HLE) is an estimate of how many years they might live in a 'healthy' state. HLE is a key summary measure of a population's health
http://www.scotpho.org.uk/population-dynamics/healthy-life-expectancy/key-points
So a big saving on pension costs and health service costs in the long run. Not exactly Logan's Run, but keep shoveling the booze and fatty food down their necks and its Full of Win.
Get the young Eastern European immigrants in to fill the gap in the work force as the locals slowly die off.
Their superior work ethic will boost the Scottish economy, and the young male immigrants will mate with the longer living Scottish females that will eventually change the population for the better.
:wink:
-
^ :grin:
-
Independant analysis can be found all over, your best bet is the channel 4 fact checker, iirc they had a well balance piece that led to 'you're not better off, but it's dificult to say by how much'. But many are much more outspoken on the topic.
The 4 major banks you have, have today announced that they will be moving hq out of Scotland and if the losses of lloyds on monday didn't ring alarm bells this certainly should.
5 million vs 60 million and which one costs more? What kind of illogical argument for independence that? *FEWER* people means less money in the pot. Higher concentrations of population (as found in England) means better scales of efficiency, more efficient spending.
My predicted topic to get thrown in the mix in the next few days? The 40% drop in property value.
-
Less people means less money in the pot. Higher concentrations of population (as found in England) means better scales of efficiency, more efficient spending.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Really? So the greater your population the more efficient you are at spending money.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
That's the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.
FYI it's fewer in number and less in quantity.
-
Less people means less money in the pot. Higher concentrations of population (as found in England) means better scales of efficiency, more efficient spending.
Really? So the greater your population the more efficient you are at spending money.
That's the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.
Why's that stupid? You think it's more efficient serving a large, but less densely populated area with (for example) public transport than serving a large, but densely populated area? Back to economics school for you mate..
On another note, why the hell are we giving the Scots concessions to stay?! If they want to stay then it should be as is, if not, fine, bugger off. When are the English getting a referendum on whether Scotland get to stay part of the Uk..
-
Less people means less money in the pot. Higher concentrations of population (as found in England) means better scales of efficiency, more efficient spending.
Really? So the greater your population the more efficient you are at spending money.
That's the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.
FYI it's fewer in number and less in quantity.
So, that's your counter argument? I used the word 'less' over 'fewer' and you not understanding economy of scale?
Are we just going to gloss over The Royal Bank of Scotland sacking off Scotland if it's a yes and moving their HQ down to London, the predicted free-fall in housing prices, tax increases, no currency, the 7ish years it could take to join the EU and the fiscal studies institutes calculations that show public spending would need to drop by an estimated £6bn if it gained independence (that's £1200 per head of pop.).
I don't understand why you are taking it so personally Elvi, it's really important to be having these debates and I was on the fence for ages but as you guys and gals get closer to the vote, it seems like the most bizarre thing ever that there is so much support when there isn't a definite answer that Salmond can give for anything.
Don't let your culturally engrained hatred of the English lead you to make heart over head decisions on something so important.
-
Independant analysis can be found all over, your best bet is the channel 4 fact checker, iirc they had a well balance piece that led to 'you're not better off, but it's dificult to say by how much'. But many are much more outspoken on the topic.
The 4 major banks you have, have today announced that they will be moving hq out of Scotland and if the losses of lloyds on monday didn't ring alarm bells this certainly should.
5 million vs 60 million and which one costs more? What kind of illogical argument for independence that? *FEWER* people means less money in the pot. Higher concentrations of population (as found in England) means better scales of efficiency, more efficient spending.
My predicted topic to get thrown in the mix in the next few days? The 40% drop in property value.
You right Sam, there is many Independant analysis's, but from my own point of view, I have yet to come accros one where is unbiased, true facts and account of the possible trasformation of what would happen.
Banks moving HQ...so we should vote no? I think you will find out Sam alot of registered offices are not where the opertations are based mainly due to the tax evasion that has went on for longer than I have been breathing. No mention of operations moving...where in my view where alot of the job losses would be. Ofcourse there will be some redundancies, that would be only natural in transformation of this scale should it happen. Your not going to cater for all in this situ.
"5 million vs 60 million and which one costs more? What kind of illogical argument for independence that? *FEWER* people means less money in the pot. Higher concentrations of population (as found in England) means better scales of efficiency, more efficient spending." - Sam, I don't know everything, but what I do know is that the UK is servely innefficent with its Money. You may disagree, but we live in my view a real decent society, it could be alot worse. The fact that we don't have armed police patrolling our streets says alot in myview.
But this comes at a large financial cost to the working populas of the UK. From inflated fuel costs, to massivly inflated property costings incudling both private ownership and privated rented sector, the continued reduction in afforabvle low cost homes and where is our governmement protecting us from these physical changes in society and regulating it? Don't even get me started on the masive unstaistainable welfare system we have in place where if you don't work you get your home and small living wage. You do know that not very long ago, that you got more money from Welfare than say working part time depending on cirumstances. You think the system is efficent?? I could write for hours on this.
The reason that is not efficent is due to massive population and sustainbaiulty costs for some of the above measures. What has this created you may ask?...it has accelaterated the gap between the rich and poor and middle class to pay for it.
I want to live in a fair and equal society, but if you think it going to happen anytime soon with 4 countires living in the same house with one doing the books, then you are sadly mistaken. If I could get assurance that this could happen and that they would start implementing legislation to deal with some of the above noted problems, then I would more than happy to vote No.
When you are 10% of the population and with a 1/3 of the landmass of the UK its not as difficult to manage compared to the latter option in my view.
My 2 cents.
Edit...Just to add Sam...this has nothing to do with we I live or you live or anti-english or any other nonsense. I was born into a unfair society like the most of us which pis*es me off and the vast majoirty of us including yourself and we can do nothing about it.
Also it would be wrong for not to point out that the Uk government did try and claw back some welfare $$ by introducing a tax on the bedroom. lol. this sums it up in my view on the larger context of matters.
Just saw this quote from another website - it certain sums me up as a voter. "why would you let global corporations tell you how to vote? they are certainly not asking you to vote in your best interests
"
-
Larger populations cost more to run, but have larger potential to generate revenue. Swings and roundabouts.
Spot on mate but its how well there are run and being able to measure and control the risk of the consqences of which the tax payers has to bear. I am all for UK, but the way poltical establishment is run can't continue and alot of Scots up here wether they vote or not in any election can do notihng about it.
Alot see it not all about money, but rather than respresentation. Not for a mintue to I think this is going to be rosy should the yes vote happen, it will be a bumpy ride, but it can be done.
As Obama said "Yes we can " :grin:
Hopefully an overhaul of politcs will follow down the line...we can only hope.
-
Thanks for your thoughts Wade, that's what I'm after - some well balanced response.
As I was kind of getting at in the round-off to my last post, Salmond really really isn't the man to do any of this. If Scotland want's it to work they need to be head hunting the best of the best, not drawing up policy in the pub on the back of napkins and answering questions with the opposite of what the UK parliamentary minister sat next to him has said.
I completely agree that the UK on the whole needs reform, that's why I support the Green party - before you snigger, have a look at their policy, you will be blown away. There financial reforms are brilliant. I did the benefit calculator on UGov the other day and myself and my partner are a grand total of.... £41 a year better off working, how does that work!?
One of the big issues, which is what my partners family who live in Scotland keep coming back to, is that originally all Mr Salmond was chasing was more power for Scotland - not a separation from the UK. As a last minute change to manefesto in 2010(?) he lobbed in the promise of a referendum on the UK, as a bit of a hook for any stray 'UKIP' camp voters. He won. He was now stuck with it.
Essentially, Scottish independence - on balance is probably, well... balanced. Unfortunately you have the Scottish version of Nigel Farage leading the charge, which really isn't good for anyone.
-
Interesting to see the Yes camp "threatening companies with ‘a day of reckoning’ after independence"
If the Yes camp don't have any counter argument other than the now completely over used "Westminster scare mongering" then the line about the day of reckoning and possible repatriation of the oil industry in the North sea should scare voters enough to vote no. He added: “BP, in an independent Scotland, will need to learn the meaning of nationalisation, in part or in whole, as it has in other countries who have not been as soft as we have forced to be."
If Scotland votes no, I hope it send a clear message to Salmond and the SNP that 300 years of working together for the greater good of this small island is more important than his parties fanciful ideas.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-fear-and-loathing-in-the-battle-for-scotland-9730442.html
saw this and thought, it makes you wonder how it can all be paid for?
Firstly don't default and pay your debt
- Inland revenue dept
- Home Office - policing and internal security including migration policy and policing
- Foreign Office - unless you want to live under a rock
- Part of Foreign Office - embassies & consulates all over the world - Or use an EU country Embassy which is allowed (if you get in the EU) so basically using UK embassy like before...
- DVLA
- Rail network, rolling stock, track administration and leasing?
- Justice - to lock up the law breakers
- Defence - fast jets, Wars ships and 3,000 - 7000 army including logistically hardware, and existing sites purchased from MOD
- Health Service - not the UK's hospitals in Scotland (we pay and own the hospitals with our NHS contribution) so they will need to be leased I guess tp the Scottish government?
- Agriculture & Environment (Nation trust type administration?)
- Energy & Climate Change - funding set aside for future plans and development, gas purchased from Europe or UK?
- Culture, Media & Sport - together or split up - no BBC?
- Regulation - banks, insurance, telecoms (big phone companies due to make an announcement in the next few days on the future service to Scotland and price hikes for small population service.
- Work, Pensions and Benefit claims administered and paid for, that bill will be huge.
- Communities & Local Government - not needed - Alec with tell them what to do... :)
- Security Services - expensive and absolutely required in the 21st century
Balancing the books I guess is difficult for any country, and i know the above list is a little tong in cheek, but I don't think i would like to take a walk into the unknown with Salmond TBH.
-
If Scotland votes no, I hope it send a clear message to Salmond and the SNP that 300 years of working together for the greater good of this small island is more important than his parties fanciful ideas.
Well said - Couldn't agree more :smiley: :smiley:
-
Well... this is a pretty powerful interview. I didn't know about West Scotlands resources, it still doesn't change my view on a lot of things nor does it enlighten me to the english media bias - but it's definitely food for thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmAKnchI3ek
On another note, this guy is bloody brilliant to follow on facebook/his blog (and he takes the opposite view to myself on the ref).
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Another-Angry-Voice/185180654855189?fref=ts
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/liberal-democrats-compassion-welfare.html
-
I just don't really care to be honest. Although it's obvious Scotland needs the UK more than the UK needs Scotland. Seems a bit like biting the hand that feeds you.
-
I just don't really care to be honest. Although it's obvious Scotland needs the UK more than the UK needs Scotland. Seems a bit like biting the hand that feeds you.
Bob I usually agree with a lot you say but that's hilarious!
-
I just don't really care to be honest. Although it's obvious Scotland needs the UK more than the UK needs Scotland. Seems a bit like biting the hand that feeds you.
:rolleyes:he who doesn't care is usually clueless on the subject of his comments :grin:
-
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28879267
So, out of interest, what happens when the oil runs out?
-
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28879267
So, out of interest, what happens when the oil runs out?
Well it won't happen in the next 10 yrs that's for sure mate so why would we worry west coast and west of Shetland mate barely even touched!! Been in the industry 10 yrs and my family have been in it for over 30 all this it will run out soon is utter pish we find bigger and better fields all the time and as technology gets better we can access reservoirs that we previously couldn't..... And of course that article is from the BBC so is 100% genuine also :)
-
Well my two cents is that I'm a born and bred Scot but I also think of myself as a Brit. Despite all of Britain's faults I genuinely feel everyone on this island is served better being united. I hope its a No result with every fibre of my being but it just could be a yes result. As I said, I regard myself as both a Scot and a Brit but its only when you have the prospect of having part of your nationality removed from you that you realise how crap it is.
It's just a shame that the way it has been set up could mean that half of the people of Scotland and the entire population of the rest of the UK are forced into an irreversible change for a nationalism movement that is voted for by mainly (be nice) people who aren't known for being thinkers.
Vote Yes for the movement of educated Scots and their capital moving south of the border? Vote Yes for collapsing house valuations? Vote Yes for higher living costs? Vote Yes for the removal of most of our armed forces strength? Vote Yes for HUGE redundancies across the financial and construction sector? Vote Yes for a Scottish financial depression. Non-thinking Scots everywhere vote Yes. No thanks.
Rule Britannia!!
-
As an Englishman, i'm generally indifferent as to whether the Scottish vote Yes or not. But from a very slight interest in the matter (basing my information on the English newspapers and the BBC news) has there been any definitive answers from Alex Salmond on some of the more important matters, such as how they'll provide healthcare, the general wellfare state etc? From my point of view, it doesn't look like he's answered many of those important questions i'd assume the general Scottish public have.
In this instance i feel the Scottish would be better off staying as part of the UK. Also, what does Alex Salmond have to gain from this? From the media coverage it looks like one big PR stunt for him should the Scottish vote yes. Would he become the leader of the new republic? etc. etc.
Oh and to add to this, the British government have handled all this terribly. All been very last minute and of all the people to try and get Scotland to stay in the Union you have David Cameron, one of the most universally loathed PM's in recent years alongside his lapdog Nick Clegg.
-
Well, doesn't matter now, back to reality.
-
:sad: :angry: :smiley:
-
We're clearly not ready for independence socially. We lack unification among ourselves generally and that's not a good foot to get off on.
-
Hope we get some reform across the nation now.....
-
its got to be a wake up call for Cameron and his numpties going by the way he was pleading for Scotland to stay. at the end of the day it could benefit us all. north and south of the border. and it just goes to show the power of the person on the street when given the chance.
-
As an Englishman, i'm generally indifferent as to whether the Scottish vote Yes or not. But from a very slight interest in the matter (basing my information on the English newspapers and the BBC news) has there been any definitive answers from Alex Salmond on some of the more important matters, such as how they'll provide healthcare, the general wellfare state etc? From my point of view, it doesn't look like he's answered many of those important questions i'd assume the general Scottish public have.
In this instance i feel the Scottish would be better off staying as part of the UK. Also, what does Alex Salmond have to gain from this? From the media coverage it looks like one big PR stunt for him should the Scottish vote yes. Would he become the leader of the new republic? etc. etc.
Oh and to add to this, the British government have handled all this terribly. All been very last minute and of all the people to try and get Scotland to stay in the Union you have David Cameron, one of the most universally loathed PM's in recent years alongside his lapdog Nick Clegg.
if you say you are indifferent then you really haven't thought about it much. do you really think a yes vote wouldn't affect you?
-
Cameron has done one of two things.
Either been very very lucky to come out the winner, or his team of Whitehall officials and civil servants have looked and played the political sphere perfectly.
Day One after vote:
1: Addressed the public at 7am and took back the initiative from Salmond and the SNP.
2: Stopped the SNP in there tracks from saying everything is the fault of Westminster, Now with more powers and a "No" vote you just need to shut up and get on with it, potentially reducing there power in Scotland.
3: By seeming to offer more than should be offered to Scotland without anything for the UK, he built up a negative policy amongst the British public for Scotland which he could counter within days.
4: Understood that the growing resentment for Devo-Max (see point 3) among the rest of the UK, would allow him to play his trump card and sideline the 40-ish Labour MP's in Scotland out of all future UK parliament policy, and Labour will be on the wrong side of the argument with the public if they protest too strongly. So with the above timeline he will be able to reduce the power of Labour for years.
5: Seized some of the UK/British UKIP support for great powers for British people.
6: May come out as a stronger leader and head off a leadership bid in the political short term (5 years) from Boris.
Personally i thought the no campaign and Cameron looked very weak and ran to offer too much when a poll said they might lose, however it could have been a very clever political game and if that is the case, I think the Tories may have won. We may not know for years but it would be interesting to find out if it was headless chickens time, or a brilliant piece of realpolitik...
-
It was never about independent Scotland :whistle: