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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: F17BAD on 23 August 2011, 22:07
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interesting, some of the better ABF powered cars iv heard of rolling road results
Ess threes car does not seem as great as many of us thought :shocked:
http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=228244&page=14
Proof its hard to get close to 200BHP with this engine anyhow
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I like the 151bhp from de-cat and mod air box, how does that happen against some of the modified machinery?
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I like the 151bhp from de-cat and mod air box, how does that happen against some of the modified machinery?
what do you mean ?
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interesting, some of the better ABF powered cars iv heard of rolling road results
Ess threes car does not seem as great as many of us thought :shocked:
http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=228244&page=14
Proof its hard to get close to 200BHP with this engine anyhow
Before you gloat any more... :smiley:
Maybe you should read the full thread, and the build up threads.
It made 150+ BHP on 3 cylinders.
You do the maths.
It took 9 litres of oil and 3 spark plugs to limp it the 550 miles home...so maybe it's not quite as sh!t as you think, either.
200 BHP is VERY possible,...but it's close to the limit on a plenum.
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I like the 151bhp from de-cat and mod air box, how does that happen against some of the modified machinery?
I think the full thread details explain it.
Standard cars are influenced less by the temperature.
All the highly strung cars were well down on power in the heat. That's life, sadly.
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Yeah i read it all, point is 200hp is very very hard to get with ABF, some of the others that are well sorted didnt even make 200, toyotecs or the race spec Seat
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on a side note regarding yours - id be very pissed off after all the work you have done to it..is the engine dying then?? whats next ?
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Yeah i read it all, point is 200hp is very very hard to get with ABF, some of the others that are well sorted didnt even make 200, toyotecs or the race spec Seat
I've spent the last 10 years telling people that.
These 'experts' that seem to think you can get 200 BHP from an ABF with an eBay chip, a drilled airbox, a de-cat and £13.50 and some pocket fluff are well off the mark.
I'd hate to think what I spent trying to break 200 BHP...which it did...but wouldn't run properly or pass an MOT.
As it is, 195ish has proved too much, and it's broken.
Such is life.
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So what's happened Glen? a ring has popped?
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on a side note regarding yours - id be very pissed off after all the work you have done to it..is the engine dying then?? whats next ?
Yup. Gutted.
It's sat in the garage and neve run since I limped it home.
Lost interest in it.
I have a fully knife edged, lightened and balalnced Diesel crank, a load of ARP bits, and a spare complete ABF...so a high compression 2.1 is on the cards.
But first, I need to rip the current engine apart and see what's broken and whats savable.
And I really can't be bothered at the mo.
It's a hobbly though...so interest comes and goes. :rolleyes:
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gotta be worth saving and bring back to former glory ? ?
You did indeed always say its not easy to break 200, this thread is aimed at those idiots from the other threads who said they were touching 200hp from spending next to nothing :rolleyes: :grin:
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I like the 151bhp from de-cat and mod air box, how does that happen against some of the modified machinery?
I think the full thread details explain it.
Standard cars are influenced less by the temperature.
All the highly strung cars were well down on power in the heat. That's life, sadly.
That answered my question.
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So what's happened Glen? a ring has popped?
I hope so...I suspect the No4 piston has failed around the oil control ring.
But I don't know.
There was no bang, no rattles, no funny noises...just REALLY heavy oil usage and low power...it idles slightly off, but noticably drops No4 once on cam at 4000 ish.
It's using oil, but not burning it...if that makes sense. Black smoke, not blue...and chucking oil droplets out the exhaust.
And it's fouling No4 plug in 100-150 miles.
A CR test proved 1-3 are all Ok...just 4 that's down.
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gotta be worth saving and bring back to former glory ? ?
You did indeed always say its not easy to break 200, this thread is aimed at those idiots from the other threads who said they were touching 200hp from spending next to nothing :rolleyes: :grin:
I'd hate to think what i've spent on that engine believing gains from so-called experts...and getting nothing.
There must be nearly £8000 in the engine, over the last 10 years or so.
I will re-build it. Well, I may have a professionally built replacement done...in a 12:1 CR 2.1, then I'll add the £5000 ITB/ECU set up that's currently abandoned in the Utility Room :-(
Then I should be looking at 210-215 BHP, with a 8500 RPM limit, on 276 Schricks.
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Good luck with it Glen :smiley:
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Good luck with it Glen :smiley:
Cheers.
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Keep at it Glen :afro:
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You're almost putting me off Glenn! :wink: :grin:
Hope you get your enthusiasm back!
I will still be heading down the same road.
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You're almost putting me off Glenn! :wink: :grin:
Hope you get your enthusiasm back!
I will still be heading down the same road.
its alot of money and effort for not a HUGE gain.. TURBO power - even if you keep the ABF, Turbo option is gonna give you more power and you can still prob do it for much less than what he had to spend. think Russ did his ABF Turbo for around 3k and he has around 250 BHP
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I liked the operator comment:
Heavy smoke on full load. Rings or engine refurb required. Better than a modified 8v in its illness!
:grin: :grin:
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I liked the operator comment:
Heavy smoke on full load. Rings or engine refurb required. Better than a modified 8v in its illness!
:grin: :grin:
i did smile at that too :grin:
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You're almost putting me off Glenn! :wink: :grin:
Hope you get your enthusiasm back!
I will still be heading down the same road.
its alot of money and effort for not a HUGE gain.. TURBO power - even if you keep the ABF, Turbo option is gonna give you more power and you can still prob do it for much less than what he had to spend. think Russ did his ABF Turbo for around 3k and he has around 250 BHP
YES!
For pure driving pleasure N/A is much better!
In my book turbo is just plain cheating!
Also in my vast experience of driving fast - 40 years - I prefer a straight N/A engine.
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You're almost putting me off Glenn! :wink: :grin:
Hope you get your enthusiasm back!
I will still be heading down the same road.
its alot of money and effort for not a HUGE gain.. TURBO power - even if you keep the ABF, Turbo option is gonna give you more power and you can still prob do it for much less than what he had to spend. think Russ did his ABF Turbo for around 3k and he has around 250 BHP
YES!
For pure driving pleasure N/A is much better!
In my book turbo is just plain cheating!
Also in my vast experience of driving fast - 40 years - I prefer a straight N/A engine.
really? is that just a golf or any car? I've just drove a nissan r35 gtr and I'm glad it had two turbos :grin: put a huge smile on my face.
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yeah thats nonsense, iv always had N/A and used to think same, old RS turbos used to come on boost late then run out of boost etc, my lil swift GTI would whistle on past them.
These days tho its a different ball game, the engine in mine comes on boost fast and it just keeps going, its bloody brilliant hahaha and i love it.. it was same in the mapped GTTDI i had
i just think spending all that money to try get close to 200hp is to much for too little :undecided: then to still get shown up at the lights buy a moded 20vt or even worse a Clio cup etc....
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yeah thats nonsense, iv always had N/A and used to think same, old RS turbos used to come on boost late then run out of boost etc, my lil swift GTI would whistle on past them.
These days tho its a different ball game, the engine in mine comes on boost fast and it just keeps going, its bloody brilliant hahaha and i love it.. it was same in the mapped GTTDI i had
i just think spending all that money to try get close to 200hp is to much for too little :undecided: then to still get shown up at the lights buy a moded 20vt or even worse a Clio cup etc....
Think your missing the point! :undecided:
Its his hobby like he said! Its trying to achieve what most others havent.
Anyone can slap a turbo on but there isnt that much sense of achievement or bragging rights.
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Anyone can slap a turbo on but there isnt that much sense of achievement or bragging rights.
Really :shocked:
think you will find "slapping a Turbo on" is much more effort than you seem to think!
Sure someone will be on here to back this up too :smiley:
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yeah thats nonsense, iv always had N/A and used to think same, old RS turbos used to come on boost late then run out of boost etc, my lil swift GTI would whistle on past them.
These days tho its a different ball game, the engine in mine comes on boost fast and it just keeps going, its bloody brilliant hahaha and i love it.. it was same in the mapped GTTDI i had
i just think spending all that money to try get close to 200hp is to much for too little :undecided: then to still get shown up at the lights buy a moded 20vt or even worse a Clio cup etc....
Spot on, could not have put it better :afro:
Anyone can slap a turbo on but there isnt that much sense of achievement or bragging rights.
Really :shocked:
think you will find "slapping a Turbo on" is much more effort than you seem to think!
Sure someone will be on here to back this up too :smiley:
not easy or cheap to fit a turbo.
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I think the point here is that there are different mind sets.
There are those that like to tinker and see what a mechanical engine is capable of. Thus they continue to try different things to see just how much difference it makes.
Then there are those who are just after the power gains without any of the mechanical emphasis. I.E. 1.8T transplants which just need a software mod and a couple of other tweeks to hit the big numbers. FMIC, KO4, DV etc. (unless of course you go for really big power then the mechanicals come in to it and the costs begin to spiral)
Different strokes for different folks. Saying one is completely different to the other is like chalk and cheese, but it's personal hobbies and interests that dictate how each of us view the changes we want to do.
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Anyone can slap a turbo on but there isnt that much sense of achievement or bragging rights.
Really :shocked:
think you will find "slapping a Turbo on" is much more effort than you seem to think!
Sure someone will be on here to back this up too :smiley:
Yeh well guess its harder than 'slapping' an S3 engine in :wink:
I have modified most of of my cars engines apart from the current golf.
So i know what work is involved in turbo charging cars. Your still missing the point though .... :rolleyes:
A n/a engine is harder to achieve extra bhp without the use of forced induction which im sure we all agree and because of that it deserves more respect than the guy who has just changed his engine or added a turbo onto it.
this is by no means a digg or insult to any hard work or effort which im sure has gone into peoples builds
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i hear you although the point i was making was, I think speanding what Ess Three has (almost 8k) and for that he has 200 bhp approx.. seems an expensive hobbie to me and not massive gains. great project granted.. Just for that money id want more bang for my buck
On a side note, its not easy adding turbos, and it was not easy to "slap" the S3 engine in mine (if only it was :grin:)
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i hear you although the point i was making was, I think speanding what Ess Three has (almost 8k) and for that he has 200 bhp approx.. seems an expensive hobbie to me and not massive gains. great project granted.. Just for that money id want more bang for my buck
On a side note, its not easy adding turbos, and it was not easy to "slap" the S3 engine in mine (if only it was :grin:)
I know mate its only banta :grin: I know from experiance that it wouldnt of been easy!
& it is an expensive hobby but then again most hobbys are! :smiley:
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Well when you have 40 years driving experience come back and tell me I'm wrong! :rolleyes:
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Some of us prefer NA to FI, I know I do. Turbos are great fun but the sound of a properly sorted NA lump being abused on a B-road is more my thing.
Nick
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Well when you have 40 years driving experience come back and tell me I'm wrong! :rolleyes:
40 years. :shocked:
I would have thought with that much experience, you would have had better results with the plywood, filler and fiberglass! :grin: :grin: Is it the engineering that's involved that makes it cheating?? or are you talking about cheque book cars?
I'd like to see someone just "slap a turbo on" And get it running like "normal" car. Yes, forced induction gives you more power and torque, but it still needs to be useable. And thats down to component choice and mapping :wink:
Has any "turbo" haters actually driven or been driven in, a properly mapped turbo car?
NASP is all very well and good, But it takes ALOT of time and skill testing hardware changes etc to get small gains. The thread in the link shows this. Especially on plenum engines.
Not that i'm knocking NA, but don't think its an easy task to get HP "numbers". £8k tells you its not.
Keep an eye on threads in CGTI. Real world analysis on these engines with G meter and dyno data to back it up.
Proof that there are no real 180hp ebay chipped, k&n filter cars as frequently posted on the forums.
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Some of us prefer NA to FI, I know I do. Turbos are great fun but the sound of a properly sorted NA lump being abused on a B-road is more my thing.
Nick
Iv got a properly sorted NA in my Swift GTI, twin cam 16 valve aluminium engine with forged crank, forged pistons, fully custom mapped ECU by Superchips before they got big, tubular manifold, no cats, custom Blue flame exhaust, HKS cams etc etc, around 150 bhp and it flies... revs to 9k and i love it so i know what you mean but the engine in my golf sounds amazing too, Turbo experience is great - sounds really good you should try it :evil: much better than stuff like RS turbos etc of the 90's
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I get that modern turbo lumps produce good power and are fun to drive, I've driven a fair few but I prefer to drive NA that's all.
Nick
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So is F/I Vs N/A the new 8v Vs 16v debate? :huh:
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This is the 8v vs 16v definitive thread. :wink: For anyone interested in 8v and 16V dyno analysis with graphs.
Click Here (http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237392&page=2)
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f**k turbos!!! it's all about supercharging. been around for over a 100 years :nerd:
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yeah thats nonsense, iv always had N/A and used to think same, old RS turbos used to come on boost late then run out of boost etc, my lil swift GTI would whistle on past them.
These days tho its a different ball game, the engine in mine comes on boost fast and it just keeps going, its bloody brilliant hahaha and i love it.. it was same in the mapped GTTDI i had
i just think spending all that money to try get close to 200hp is to much for too little :undecided: then to still get shown up at the lights buy a moded 20vt or even worse a Clio cup etc....
I don't like turbo engines.
I can see why manufacturers fit them...and I have a 260+ BHP TFSI in my Mk6 GTI and although it's OK...it's ultimately a typical turbo engine...frustrating.
It's more NA like than any other I've driven...but the on-off-on throttle transitions are awful. It's a turbo...that's just the way it is...it's not fluid to take down a back road and ultimately, frustrating.
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yeah thats nonsense, iv always had N/A and used to think same, old RS turbos used to come on boost late then run out of boost etc, my lil swift GTI would whistle on past them.
These days tho its a different ball game, the engine in mine comes on boost fast and it just keeps going, its bloody brilliant hahaha and i love it.. it was same in the mapped GTTDI i had
i just think spending all that money to try get close to 200hp is to much for too little :undecided: then to still get shown up at the lights buy a moded 20vt or even worse a Clio cup etc....
I don't like turbo engines.
I can see why manufacturers fit them...and I have a 260+ BHP TFSI in my Mk6 GTI and although it's OK...it's ultimately a typical turbo engine...frustrating.
It's more NA like than any other I've driven...but the on-off-on throttle transitions are awful. It's a turbo...that's just the way it is...it's not fluid to take down a back road and ultimately, frustrating.
yeah but put said engine in a car thats not as heavy as a house and/or get a good map done and its a diff ball game...
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i hear you although the point i was making was, I think speanding what Ess Three has (almost 8k) and for that he has 200 bhp approx.. seems an expensive hobbie to me and not massive gains. great project granted.. Just for that money id want more bang for my buck
Lets put things in perspective here...
I bought the Anni 16v as a run about when I had just bought a new 8L S3...I liked the Anni...so begun to rweak it.
In saying that, I spent similar, if not more, taking the 8L S3 to as far as I could go on a K04 turbo - and the chassis to match...it ended up at 275-280BHP/330+ lb-ft reliable, and predictable.
so I've had tuned turbo cars too.
The 16v Golf is a hobby.
If I took up Golf, I'd have spent the same on golf Bats, Rupert The Bear trousers and extorsionate playing fees...it's a hobby. That's all. It keeps me amused when I'm bored.
And £8000+ over 10 years + really isn't an awful lot, is it?
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This is the 8v vs 16v definitive thread. :wink: For anyone interested in 8v and 16V dyno analysis with graphs.
Click Here (http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237392&page=2)
Best 8v v 16v thread i've read so far, especially the explanations about the torque curve of the 16 v 8 and why they are the way they are.
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yeah but put said engine in a car thats not as heavy as a house and/or get a good map done and its a diff ball game...
You need to do your research!
260+ BHP is with a decent map.
The Mk6 is also lighter than a Mk5, and not as much heavier than a Mk3 as most imagine.
It also handles. Properly.
And it would show any Mk3 I know of, a clean pair of tail lights on ANY given road, ANY time.
It's just...a bit dull?
fine for an every day, fetch the shopping sort of car...but it's almost too easy.
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8k seems alot but as you say spread over 8 years..
interested what you spent 8k on the S3 tho, i mean a remap on a bog standard engine is gonna be at least 250/260 and thats without exhaust etc, with all the other usual mods you will be looking at close to what you had but wont cost anything close to 8k ? i mean iv done all the usual stuff to mine and having a custom map done this friday, total build cost including the 40k engine is around 5k mark including all mods etc (still using K04 for now)
i drive a mk6 most days - not impressed sorry
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interested what you spent 8k on the S3 tho, i mean a remap on a bog standard engine is gonna be at least 250/260 and thats without exhaust etc, with all the other usual mods you will be looking at close to what you had but wont cost anything close to 8k ? i mean iv done all the usual stuff to mine and having a custom map done this friday, total build cost including the 40k engine is around 5k mark including all mods etc (still using K04 for now)
You are lucky to get over 250 genuine BHP from an AMK/BAM...and gettin the next 25-30 caused lots of problems - heat specifically, and trying to keep the heat down.
At 1.85 bar peak boost and 1.3 bar sustained the K04 is just a heat pump...so you need HUGE gains in IC efficiency to get small gains in usable power/torque.
Custom Forge FMIC and pipework
Custom Forge SMIC and pipework
Relocated DV
100 cell Cats
Exhaust
Ported manifolds & TB
Custom charge pipe
Custom remap
Modified airbox with cold air feed...
Then there was the Brembo brakes, Bilstein dampers, H&R springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Forge rear tie-bars, custom chassis set up with tweaked pivot points, 18" BBS RSII wheels etc
£8k didn't scratch the surface.
It was a hell of an S3 though...utterly ballistic in all weathers. But dull as dishwater.
i drive a mk6 most days - not impressed sorry
With what aspect?
It handles properly, goes well, is well built, nive inside...but the brakes are crap!
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MK6 - does not feel well built, and i fint it a bit mundane, nothing wrong with it at all, in fact its a good car i guess it just does not excite me?
interior feel is not great at all, almost on a par with a Ford focus, no paint in the places you cant see either...
as for S3, well i have the AMK, Iv done all you have above (well the important parts and not waste of time stuff like DV relocation) plus i have no cat, K&N induction kit (relocated to behind bumper vent) custom FMI, Custom 3" stainless Downpipe onto a Jetex system, N249 delete and getting a custom map this friday at Carbon.
As i say, the bHP i get will be genuine so it will be interesting to see. however i plan on a turbo upgrade next year.
i have seen genuine 270 with similar to what i have, granted their is a lot of bull sh!t dyno results around :lipsrsealed:
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MK6 - does not feel well built, and i fint it a bit mundane, nothing wrong with it at all, in fact its a good car i guess it just does not excite me?
Mk6 IS mundane...however, still well screwed together, and with a vastly better chassis out of the box than ANY Mk3.
as for S3, well i have the AMK, Iv done all you have above (well the important parts and not waste of time stuff like DV relocation)
I suggest that if you were running high enough boost, you would see the need for a cold side relocation of the DV...because once you've had it stick a few times due to the silly heat the K04 produces when pushing 1.85 bar boost, you'd not want it happening again.
But maybe you aren't making anough boost/producing enough heat to warrant it?
plus i have no cat, K&N induction kit (relocated to behind bumper vent) custom FMI, Custom 3" stainless Downpipe onto a Jetex system, N249 delete and getting a custom map this friday at Carbon.
As i say, the bHP i get will be genuine so it will be interesting to see. however i plan on a turbo upgrade next year.
i have seen genuine 270 with similar to what i have, granted their is a lot of bull sh!t dyno results around :lipsrsealed:
I'd expect that figure, if not a few more.
275 genuine should be achievable if you can sustain enough boost and keep the charge air cool enough.
What sort of peak boost do you run?
I was delibetately running massive midrange to make the Haldex work and try to wake up a numb chassis.
If you aren't pushing much over 1.5 bar peak, you avoid many of the heat related problems....and probably making 280ish lb-ft?
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Mk6 - really dont see the VW quality anymore, just my opinion
as for mine, its not getting mapped till friday, boost wise, spikes to around 16 - 17 psi, boosts to 15, holds around 11 /12 PSI
Iv looked into the DV relocation and its a complete waste of time (not my words just going by what some peopole who i trust have told me )
my DV is a 007.
One thing id like to swap out is the actuator for a forge item.
i forgot to mention i also bought a brand new MAF sensor (genuine audi) as the old one was failing. And obviously changed the plugs for nrew NGK platinum (Audi dealer supplied)
the dyno run and mapping session on friday should give me more info.
TBH im not so bothered about the final BHP results, im more bothered about it been set up right so the power is more usable. then i want a LSD and to swap out the FD in the box
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as for mine, its not getting mapped till friday, boost wise, spikes to around 16 - 17 psi, boosts to 15, holds around 11 /12 PSI
That's very modest boost.
Very sensible too for a FWD car with no LSD!
you should be able to retain at least 5psi more with your set-up.
Iv looked into the DV relocation and its a complete waste of time (not my words just going by what some peopole who i trust have told me )
my DV is a 007.
One thing id like to swap out is the actuator for a forge item.
I had a Forge DV on my S3. And it stuck due to the heat.
I'm not going to tell you that you need it.
What I will say is that once you've had it stick, you will want to stop it happening again.
Even with the strong optional spring, and mobil 1 grease...it still stuck with temperature related problems.
But, I was making a LOT more heat and making a LOT more boost.
i forgot to mention i also bought a brand new MAF sensor (genuine audi) as the old one was failing. And obviously changed the plugs for nrew NGK platinum (Audi dealer supplied)
I found Denco Irridium IK22s were the best for mine when pushing high boost.
the dyno run and mapping session on friday should give me more info.
Good luck. I'd expect you could tune that to givea good 270 BHP at the top, with the torque pegged back to 260-270 to aid traction through the midrange.
Should be good.
TBH im not so bothered about the final BHP results, im more bothered about it been set up right so the power is more usable. then i want a LSD and to swap out the FD in the box
Everyone is bothered!! :-)
Good idea on the Diff too...the bolt kit being very important at the sort of torque you run.
Why do you want to swap the FD with all that torque?
Go longer...or shorter to give wheelspin problems?
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FD will be longer. :wink: as in the VR
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as for mine, its not getting mapped till friday, boost wise, spikes to around 16 - 17 psi, boosts to 15, holds around 11 /12 PSI
That's very modest boost.
Very sensible too for a FWD car with no LSD!
you should be able to retain at least 5psi more with your set-up.
Iv looked into the DV relocation and its a complete waste of time (not my words just going by what some peopole who i trust have told me )
my DV is a 007.
One thing id like to swap out is the actuator for a forge item.
I had a Forge DV on my S3. And it stuck due to the heat.
I'm not going to tell you that you need it.
What I will say is that once you've had it stick, you will want to stop it happening again.
Even with the strong optional spring, and mobil 1 grease...it still stuck with temperature related problems.
But, I was making a LOT more heat and making a LOT more boost.
i forgot to mention i also bought a brand new MAF sensor (genuine audi) as the old one was failing. And obviously changed the plugs for nrew NGK platinum (Audi dealer supplied)
I found Denco Irridium IK22s were the best for mine when pushing high boost.
the dyno run and mapping session on friday should give me more info.
Good luck. I'd expect you could tune that to givea good 270 BHP at the top, with the tor-270 to aid traction through the midrange.
Should be good.
TBH im not so bothered about the final BHP results, im more bothered about it been set up right so the power is more usable. then i want a LSD and to swap out the FD in the box
Everyone is bothered!! :-)
Good idea on the Diff too...the bolt kit being very important at the sort of torque you run.
Why do you want to swap the FD with all that torque?
Go longer...or shorter to give wheelspin problems?
Ill take another look into the DV relocation :smiley:
FD as Russ above says, on the motorway im at 4k revs at 100mph but its right on the powerband - feels like im in 3rd, iv had the car right upto 140 indicated on the clocks and it had more :shocked: but i just feel the VR final drive would suit it better. Plan to fit this wheh i fit a LSD
then next year maybe look at Bigger Turbos. also want a INA sump as iv hit mine a few times
Carbon said 260 -270 bhp is possible. iv also had a few people tell me its best to hold the Torque back to aid traction (as you mention above)
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Ill take another look into the DV relocation :smiley:
Being brutally honest...I doubt you'd need it.
I don't think you will be running your turbo outwith it's efficiency curve to turn it into a heat pump...so you should be OK.
Start really pushing it though, and it's worth considering.
FD as Russ above says,
Have you got one?
I think my mate has a spare 3.3 sitting about, as he recently fitted my old 3.67 (16v) FD to his NA VR6.
It's in a box all ready to install...if you need one, I can ask for you.
It's a known FD out of a 17,000 from new VR6 'box - my old high spec 2.9 (228 BHP/210 lb-ft, NA)
on the motorway im at 4k revs at 100mph but its right on the powerband - feels like im in 3rd, iv had the car right upto 140 indicated on the clocks and it had more :shocked: but i just feel the VR final drive would suit it better. Plan to fit this wheh i fit a LSD
Pfft...
I have been running running 4000 RPM @ 68 MPH. :-)
Mine will pull 7300 in 6th...at around 138 MPH genuine. Well, it will when all 4 cylinders decide to fire.
then next year maybe look at Bigger Turbos. also want a INA sump as iv hit mine a few times
Cool.
Carbon said 260 -270 bhp is possible. iv also had a few people tell me its best to hold the Torque back to aid traction (as you mention above)
In my experience with my K04 AMK, I'd say that with your downpipe and FMIC, 270 BHP is entirely realistic...if not nearer 275 BHP, and still without maxing out the injectors (I was running 90% duty cycle at just over 275 BHP on mine)...especially if you aren't making the turbo work too hard midrange.
Pegging the boost back at 3000-4000 RPM (say 270 lb-ft) should give the turbo an easy job...and allow 270+ BHP top end...and it should still feel reasonably linear - unlike my old s3 which felt like a TDI.
Once you have the longer FD, then another 10-20 lb-ft midrange shouldn't be a problem.
Much over 290 becomes an issue though, especially on an old Mk3 chassis...I used to run the S3 at around 320 lb-ft as you could just break traction on all 4 wheels in the wet, and it was solid in the dry...at 330+ lb-ft it was undrivable, you were always fighting the grip, the chassis and the silly Haldex...and it was slower from A to B than at 320 lb-ft.
You could always add Racelogic TCS and go for 300+ lb-ft? :grin:
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yeah its gonna be difficult to get the power down the closer to 300 Bhp i go, im im in a lighter car than a AMK S3 or LCR..
ill have to let you know about the final drive, need to same some pennies for a bit as iv spent a fortune recently on the car with new paint and the engine etc :lipsrsealed: :laugh:
i deffo want one tho and the one you mention sounds ideal..
im looking forward to friday, they are a good set up too, dyno dynamics rollers etc..
Im not sure which spring i should be running in the DV, i have a Green one, a yellow and a red.. ?
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yeah its gonna be difficult to get the power down the closer to 300 Bhp i go, im im in a lighter car than a AMK S3 or LCR..
300 BHP isn't the promlem, it's the torque.
At 6000 RPM, 300 BHP is easy enough to put down, even in a mk3.
ill have to let you know about the final drive, need to same some pennies for a bit as iv spent a fortune recently on the car with new paint and the engine etc :lipsrsealed: :laugh:
i deffo want one tho and the one you mention sounds ideal..
No probs. It's sitting in a box and will never be used I imagine...so if you don't want to strip a VR 'box, get in touch.
im looking forward to friday, they are a good set up too, dyno dynamics rollers etc..
Nice!!
Im not sure which spring i should be running in the DV, i have a Green one, a yellow and a red.. ?
Blimey...I sold my S3 back in 2004...but wasn't the Green spring the stiffest one?
That's what I was running.
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ill let you know about the FD, ill more than likely want that from you :smiley:
think im running the Green spriong at the moment - whatever was in it standard. i have the others in the box in my garage. will did these out tomo.
suprised the car copes really well getting the power down at the moment (unless its wet :grin:)
will keep you updated with happenings on friday :smiley: - i really like the AMK, great engines :smiley:
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will keep you updated with happenings on friday :smiley:
Please do!
- i really like the AMK, great engines :smiley:
Sadly, I hated the damn thing.
It was awful..a soul-less droning thing that sounded like a Dyson and delivered grunt like a TDI without giving the fuel benefits of a TDI.
Great power and torque...but I couldn't wait to move on to a big NA engine - 3.6 flat 6....with noise and throttle response to die for!
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Im not sure which spring i should be running in the DV, i have a Green one, a yellow and a red.. ?
Green is std, yellow stage 1, red is stage 2.
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i much prefer the NA engines for play, turbos can be good got one as a daily atm but it isn't exactly quick.
as allready said 20vt's somewhere around about the 270 - 280 mark they go all wrong usally needing fuel to be deliverd in buckets to keep cyl temps down if sticking with the ko4.
no one ever seems to bother doing port work on the 20vt but it cam make them behave much better, more flow with less boost espectaly when your the revs but if looking for numbers near the 280 mark i think your better off with a diffrent turbo then it'll do it with less bother.
on that abf thread on club gti how the hell can a sub 200 bhp ITBed abf be called "Full race spec" FFS
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as allready said 20vt's somewhere around about the 270 - 280 mark they go all wrong usally needing fuel to be deliverd in buckets to keep cyl temps down if sticking with the ko4.
So true. EGTs become an issue at around 280 BHP on a K04 too, as well as injector duty cycle.
no one ever seems to bother doing port work on the 20vt but it cam make them behave much better, more flow with less boost espectaly when your the revs but if looking for numbers near the 280 mark i think your better off with a diffrent turbo then it'll do it with less bother.
Porting is only any use if you are going to first throw that tragic exhaust manifold into the bin.
Have you seen the ports on it?
It's laughable.
A K04 will make considerably more on a better manifold.
More again with headwork and/or a K04 hybrid.
Some of the BT conversions make things much easier in traction terms...a 330 BHP/270 lb-ft GT28 or similar will be easier to drive than a 270 BHP/330 lb-ft highly strung K04.
on that abf thread on club gti how the hell can a sub 200 bhp ITBed abf be called "Full race spec" FFS
They are at least 80 BHP off 'full race spec'.
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Some of the BT conversions make things much easier in traction terms...a 330 BHP/270 lb-ft GT28 or similar will be easier to drive than a 270 BHP/330 lb-ft highly strung K04.
That would be because the turbo comes on boost later so not a much low down torque. Would also mean you could possibly keep the 3.68 FD to allow you more off boost response. Possibly enabling you to still have high top speeds due to the engine pulling higher revs as the torque doesn't drop off as much as the K04.
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Some of the BT conversions make things much easier in traction terms...a 330 BHP/270 lb-ft GT28 or similar will be easier to drive than a 270 BHP/330 lb-ft highly strung K04.
That would be because the turbo comes on boost later so not a much low down torque. Would also mean you could possibly keep the 3.68 FD to allow you more off boost response. Possibly enabling you to still have high top speeds due to the engine pulling higher revs as the torque doesn't drop off as much as the K04.
Bingo!
If I were building a 1.8T now for FWD use, it would be a 7500-8000 RPM capable GT28 engine, and I'd run a 3.94 FD and map the boost moderate through the midrange (260-270 lb-ft) and make use of the top end power.
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This is why i love my jap engines now!
So easy to get 300bhp out of them with relatively small amounts of work!
BUt even after that we start to run into trouble with new turbo's etc... :(
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This is why i love my jap engines now!
So easy to get 300bhp out of them with relatively small amounts of work!
BUt even after that we start to run into trouble with new turbo's etc... :(
pics of this beast????