GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => Shows, events, track days, motorsport => Topic started by: leeroy20vt on 19 June 2010, 21:59
-
just got a cheap boat for the track (mk3gti)
once interior is stripped weres the best place to bolt harness down
cheers lee
-
Dedicated, custom harness mounts and wrapped around the harness bar in the cage that you'll need to install before you fit harnesses.
NOT f*cking seatbelt mounts..... if you value your physical well-being.
-
cheers dh trouble is wasnt goin to put a cage in for first outing just wanted to see what the boat would be like :smiley:
but on same token wanted to be a little more strapped in than just a seat belt
-
Don't be an idiot and put in badly fitted harnesses, get one of these instead:
http://www.cg-lock.co.uk/
Spend the rest on a proper car-use helmet.
-
have you got buckets? imo its worth fitting both if your car corners well enough for you to fall out your standard seat, so the bucket and harness give you more control. safety is a bonus tbh
-
Don't be an idiot and put in badly fitted harnesses, get one of these instead:
http://www.cg-lock.co.uk/
Spend the rest on a proper car-use helmet.
that looks like quite a tool
but i will only be using it for one day to see if its upto the job then it will have a cage ect put in
veedubgti16v
no standard seats at the mo i used to do oval racing so trackdays are goin to be a little different for me hence the cheapness start to it and dont want to go mad and chuck a rollcage and bucket seats ect for it
cheers for the info so far
-
for the first day i would just drive it as it is, you will soon work out where money needs spending for the next one!
-
for the first day i would just drive it as it is, you will soon work out where money needs spending for the next one!
ok kool just wanted to chuck a harness in so i didnt end up laying on passenger seat lol but if it safer to leave seatbelt in for now i will do that
-
i found its more the seat that stops you moving around than the harness, so if you went for a seat and std seatbelt you wouldn't have to worry about the mounting points, and then maybe put harnesses in after a cage?
-
How big are you?!
I fitted Scirocco seats to my Golf2, which are damned fine. IIRC there's a few SEATs with Golf3 width runners. Might be worth having a poke about in a yard for one of those if the G3 seats really are that bad.
CG-Lock should cure the 'slopping about' problem though.....
-
im a fair size lmao :grin:
i think likeu both said just take it out as it is im not goin to do all day probs just a few 20 min sessions if it blows up it will get scrapped if it lasts then i will set about gettin a cage for it
just been speakin to a m8 who has a couple of subaru seats which are quite buckety so may have them as well
-
another quick question when/if i do put a cage init i get the rear of the harness connects to the cage but were do u bolt the front to ?
-
I have drilled through the floor and rivited FIA approved backing plates to the underside. You can then screw in eyebolts that you can attach your harnesses to. This is the "Blue Book" method for most racing series so I thought it would be the best way for me. The backing plates and eyebolts can be had relativly cheaply from most of the usual suppliers, I think that I paid a few quid each. The rivets are just there to hold the backing plate in place whilst you are faffing around with the eyebolts as they tighten up nicely and pull the plate hard against the floor.
-
cheers m8y
-
Backing plates would be better welded on the underside.
If you fit buckets, make sure the mounting bars have spreader plates welded into the shell, too.
-
Backing plates would be better welded on the underside.
If you fit buckets, make sure the mounting bars have spreader plates welded into the shell, too.
mounting bars spreader plates ? soz a little lost now
-
Backing plates would be better welded on the underside.
If you fit buckets, make sure the mounting bars have spreader plates welded into the shell, too.
mounting bars spreader plates ? soz a little lost now
Bucket seats don't, normally, attach using the original mounting points. you therefore need to manufacture new mointing points for the seat to attach to. These are usually, if home made, square tubes welded onto the floor of the cabin through which the seats bolt. the spreader plates are fitted to the underside of the car, in the same way as the plates for the eyebolts, to increase the area (spread) that the nut has to bind to the shell of the car. This means that you are not trying to rip a small nut throught he floor but a large (2" square) metal plate which is, of course, much more difficult.
Hope that explains it all a little better.
jon
-
sweet yes makes sense now cheers for the help dh and jonleeper
i used to do the same with the bangers i used to race but it was just a big plate underneather instead of box on top and plate underneath :shocked:
cheers again
-
Here's a pre-cut mounting kit from Demon Tweeks. Should make it obvious:
http://modifying.demontweeks.co.uk/Motorsport/Seats_&_Accessories/Seat_Mounting_Frames/Demon_Tweeks_Subframe_Mounting_Kit/1763/0/13671
Note the plates to go around the tubes.
-
They're not bad value for money those DH if you don't have the skills to knock up your own.
I'm currently running a hacked about standard seat frame but hoping in Spetember to do it properly when the cage goes in with a fresh pair of buckets and ditch the standard passenger seat.
Nick
-
Since I need my seat to move, SWIMBO is under 5" and I am over 6", and rise as it does so I fabricated a set of inclined runners using a decent gauge of steel that bolts flat to the floor behind the seat and then, using shaped spacers, rises up to mount on the OEM bar in the footwell. This gives me an inclined, but flat, surface to mount the OMP runners to and then the seat fits to the OMP runners. The bolts fit through spreader plates under the floor to give the security necessary. This allows the seat to slide forwards and rise as it does so that SWIMBO can actually see out of the windscreen! I did have to fit additional eyebolts as when fully forward the angles created by my mounting points were outside that specified in the "Blue Book" and so when SWIMBO drivesI will move the lap belt and crutch strap mounting points. Easily done and got me a few brownie points.
-
cheers guys its all making sense now like i say building a bangerstox is less involved so all good pointers there so far
i am quite a good welder so should be able to knock most of that up my self i have seen a design for the cage so if it doesnt blow up on first outings that will be next step also have just picked up some subaru bucket seats cheap :smiley:
its all stripped now just dash and 2 front seats left
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p319/leeroy8v/DSC00432.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p319/leeroy8v/DSC00440.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p319/leeroy8v/DSC00444.jpg)
not to sad for £130 sold some of interior already so price is coming down lol
also just got some avon ab 10s think my m8 has kindly given me :wink:
-
If you can get to Castle COmbe on Friday there's trackday going down for £145 and a few places have become available. Myself, Paul and VeedubGTI16v will be there.
-
If you can get to Castle COmbe on Friday there's trackday going down for £145 and a few places have become available. Myself, Paul and VeedubGTI16v will be there.
i would like to m8 but is a fair trek for me plus i will be trailering the car were eva i go i need to get some track time i think before i got there lol
-
Fair enough, just thought I'd mention it :o)
nick
-
Fair enough, just thought I'd mention it :o)
nick
much apprieacted m8 i will keep castle in mind just like to get the car half right on a local track
-
A welder in heren Bay hey! :scratchchin:
I am trying to buy a house in Eastry for the familly to settle, we'll be practically neighbours! I should have a nice lathe and workshop set up so we might be able to colaborate, if needed. (read into that what you will, but i am thinking of getting a proper cage fitted and if you can weld........) :rolleyes:
-
A welder in heren Bay hey! :scratchchin:
I am trying to buy a house in Eastry for the familly to settle, we'll be practically neighbours! I should have a nice lathe and workshop set up so we might be able to colaborate, if needed. (read into that what you will, but i am thinking of getting a proper cage fitted and if you can weld........) :rolleyes:
sounds like a plan lol im just finding out how much tube size and thickness ect i need for cage i got pipe bender and a grinder so should be cool lol
-
A welder in heren Bay hey! :scratchchin:
I am trying to buy a house in Eastry for the familly to settle, we'll be practically neighbours! I should have a nice lathe and workshop set up so we might be able to colaborate, if needed. (read into that what you will, but i am thinking of getting a proper cage fitted and if you can weld........) :rolleyes:
sounds like a plan lol im just finding out how much tube size and thickness ect i need for cage i got pipe bender and a grinder so should be cool lol
OHHHHHH you have a pipe bender! :grin: We may have a plan, where you thinking of 6 points or more?
-
A welder in heren Bay hey! :scratchchin:
I am trying to buy a house in Eastry for the familly to settle, we'll be practically neighbours! I should have a nice lathe and workshop set up so we might be able to colaborate, if needed. (read into that what you will, but i am thinking of getting a proper cage fitted and if you can weld........) :rolleyes:
sounds like a plan lol im just finding out how much tube size and thickness ect i need for cage i got pipe bender and a grinder so should be cool lol
OHHHHHH you have a pipe bender! :grin: We may have a plan, where you thinking of 6 points or more?
erm probs just a six altho the one i have goes thru to top strut mounts on the front
-
Sorry,
I appear to have hijacked this thread! :lipsrsealed:
Leroy when you get round to ordering materiels give me a bell and we'll see what can be done.
Jon
-
Sorry,
I appear to have hijacked this thread! :lipsrsealed:
Leroy when you get round to ordering materiels give me a bell and we'll see what can be done.
Jon
no probs m8 its helping me out so not fussed i used to make cages out of scaffold tube but it bloody heavy lol
just spoke to local metal supplier he said he got 32mm x 2 mm thick £30 for a 7.5 metre length didnt think was to bad but would it be upto the job
-
If i remember correctly the "Blue Book" says that it hs to be Cold Drawn Carbon Steel and at least 45x2.4mm or 50x2mm so 32x2 wouldn't meet that. Now I am not going to race mine, so I don't have to meet the MSA regs, but try tp use them as a guide as they represent best practice.
-
If i remember correctly the "Blue Book" says that it hs to be Cold Drawn Carbon Steel and at least 45x2.4mm or 50x2mm so 32x2 wouldn't meet that. Now I am not going to race mine, so I don't have to meet the MSA regs, but try tp use them as a guide as they represent best practice.
tru m8 but then im only doin track days never goin to race it either so i dunno will have to find out on that one
-
A fraction dated but some good info on here:
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202315
For my own purposes I would rather use more of a lighter material, ie more triangualtion and more fixing points, than less of a heavier one, if that makes sence! I think that any cage should tie in all four turret tops, the floor, A & B pillars and under the dash as a minimum. Cross bracing and triangualtion then on top f that, oh and a harness bar of course! :rolleyes:
-
cds is about 3 time the price :cry:
-
I guess the question is "what do you want to achieve with your cage?" In my case it is not to race the car it is to stiffen the shell to eliminate any chassis flex and to add some safety by creating a solid mounting point to the harnesses and by the creation of a passenger cell. In this instance, and note I will only be using the car on track days not racing, the chances of lateral impact are reduced. In fact today i am relying on the original shell to ptovide all of my protection so anything I can do to improve this is a bonus.
NOTE: As long as it does improve the situation not make it worse.
To that end the question is what is the most cost effective method of achieving the gains required. Now if this is by finding a mate who can weld effectivly and then sharing the labour costs to develop a cage from materiels less that specified in the "Blue Book" but confident that the quantity to the material and the positioning gains the requireed strenght then that has to be the way to go. Now if that means that you use twice as much material then, in htis case as CDS is three times the price, then so be it. I would simply add triangulation where necessary to ensure that I was happy with the result.
-
yup see what ur saying like i said before i built cages out of scaffold poles but as u prob know it doesnt really like being welded as its galvenised but saying that a couple of cars i put cages in had been rolled and my one had a door bar which i got hit in the side a quite a pace and none of them bent or cracked so thats a plus supose
im on the same sort of wave lenght here were i want to be safer but also want to make shell rigid but trying to do this on a budget may prove quite hard lol
here is what i was looking at tryin to copy if the link works
http://www.customcages.co.uk/Images/700/528//Assets/Products/Volkswagen%20Golf%20Mk3/vwgolfmk3cds.jpg
-
I like the look of that, but would probably add a tube back from the rear turrets to the floor, and probably streight accross the rear turrets, although as I have a rear strut brace it might not be needed.
-
I like the look of that, but would probably add a tube back from the rear turrets to the floor, and probably streight accross the rear turrets, although as I have a rear strut brace it might not be needed.
yer thats exactly what i was thinking :wink:
-
What's you timescales, or is it (like mine) as and when i get round to it! :shocked:
-
What's you timescales, or is it (like mine) as and when i get round to it! :shocked:
well next trackday here is the 3rd of july so i amaiming to get the tyres on and lowered for that day then look at gettin cage and harnesses in for august hopefully :smiley:
-
Scaffold bar: made from any old shyte and rat droppings dug out of a chinese sh*thole. Featuring a large, weak seam down one side of the tube.
CDS: Made from, errrrr cold, drawn steel, to proper specification.
Using scaf bar for cages is a VERY bad idea, never mind the weight implications. Don't do it. You don't know how it will deform or snap.
Plus cage tubing should be mandrel bent, really
HTHs
The price of Custom Cages (or any of the other start-ups from ex-CC employees) means you are probably better off just buying a kit. Think about where you're cross-bracing it though - a vertical brace may not work if you're 6'ish due to the size of the passenger compartment.
-
Scaffold bar: made from any old shyte and rat droppings dug out of a chinese sh*thole. Featuring a large, weak seam down one side of the tube.
CDS: Made from, errrrr cold, drawn steel, to proper specification.
Using scaf bar for cages is a VERY bad idea, never mind the weight implications. Don't do it. You don't know how it will deform or snap.
Plus cage tubing should be mandrel bent, really
HTHs
The price of Custom Cages (or any of the other start-ups from ex-CC employees) means you are probably better off just buying a kit. Think about where you're cross-bracing it though - a vertical brace may not work if you're 6'ish due to the size of the passenger compartment.
wasnt goin to make this cage out of scaffold lol but was just looking at normal steel tube
i found some 32mm cds 17 quid a metre :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :cry: :cry: :cry: altho still not thick enough for the blue book lol
mayby i will just look around for a second hand cage :undecided:
-
Scaffold bar: made from any old shyte and rat droppings dug out of a chinese sh*thole. Featuring a large, weak seam down one side of the tube.
CDS: Made from, errrrr cold, drawn steel, to proper specification.
Using scaf bar for cages is a VERY bad idea, never mind the weight implications. Don't do it. You don't know how it will deform or snap.
Plus cage tubing should be mandrel bent, really
HTHs
The price of Custom Cages (or any of the other start-ups from ex-CC employees) means you are probably better off just buying a kit. Think about where you're cross-bracing it though - a vertical brace may not work if you're 6'ish due to the size of the passenger compartment.
wasnt goin to make this cage out of scaffold lol but was just looking at normal steel tube
i found some 32mm cds 17 quid a metre :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :cry: :cry: :cry: altho still not thick enough for the blue book lol
mayby i will just look around for a second hand cage :undecided:
Good luck with that, I still can't find one! Well not for reasonable miney anyway. New they are about £350 - £500 and then you have to fit so not cheap.
-
Scaffold bar: made from any old shyte and rat droppings dug out of a chinese sh*thole. Featuring a large, weak seam down one side of the tube.
CDS: Made from, errrrr cold, drawn steel, to proper specification.
Using scaf bar for cages is a VERY bad idea, never mind the weight implications. Don't do it. You don't know how it will deform or snap.
Plus cage tubing should be mandrel bent, really
HTHs
The price of Custom Cages (or any of the other start-ups from ex-CC employees) means you are probably better off just buying a kit. Think about where you're cross-bracing it though - a vertical brace may not work if you're 6'ish due to the size of the passenger compartment.
wasnt goin to make this cage out of scaffold lol but was just looking at normal steel tube
i found some 32mm cds 17 quid a metre :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :cry: :cry: :cry: altho still not thick enough for the blue book lol
mayby i will just look around for a second hand cage :undecided:
Good luck with that, I still can't find one! Well not for reasonable miney anyway. New they are about £350 - £500 and then you have to fit so not cheap.
looks like making it out the correct metal is still goin to be cheaper :cry:
-
What's the price of CDS?
-
only found one place so far £17 a metre i think its so dear cos its seamless as well but not 100% on that
and surely any sort of rollcage has got to be better than not having one ?
-
only found one place so far £17 a metre i think its so dear cos its seamless as well but not 100% on that
and surely any sort of rollcage has got to be better than not having one ?
Amen to that. How much tube do you think each cage has in it?
-
only found one place so far £17 a metre i think its so dear cos its seamless as well but not 100% on that
and surely any sort of rollcage has got to be better than not having one ?
Amen to that. How much tube do you think each cage has in it?
wouldnt like to say mayby 15-20 metres :undecided:
-
I need to keep looking then, that would be £255 - £340 just for the tube.
-
I need to keep looking then, that would be £255 - £340 just for the tube.
yup :cry: :cry: :cry: not good at all
-
I wonder what T45 costs? It's the other alternative when looking at roll cages.
-
dearer again wtf
http://www.customcages.co.uk/roll-cages/accessories
-
Custom cages prices:
Golf Mk 2 Multipoint
Material: CDS
Product Code: VWG2/06
Weight: 50.5 kg
Compliance: MSA *
Price: £616.40
Fitted: £1699.70
Prices excl. VAT/national taxes
That's £723.80 or £1997.15 fitted including VAT or £739.68 or £2039.64 fitted next year..
Golf Mk 2 Club is £425.69 (£500.19 including VAT or £510.83 next year)for the only one worth having and that looks like it should have a few more tubes fitted.
That's a hell of a lot of money and makes the idea of a home grown solution a real option, even if it would be with lesser materials.
-
Golf Mk 2 Club is £425.69 (£500.19 including VAT or £510.83 next year)for the only one worth having and that looks like it should have a few more tubes fitted.
So buy some same-spec CDS and add in the extra bars :tongue:
and surely any sort of rollcage has got to be better than not having one ?
You're surrounding yourself with lots of very hard steel. I'd want to be bloody sure none of it was going to come and get me unexpectedly.
-
Golf Mk 2 Club is £425.69 (£500.19 including VAT or £510.83 next year)for the only one worth having and that looks like it should have a few more tubes fitted.
So buy some same-spec CDS and add in the extra bars :tongue:
and surely any sort of rollcage has got to be better than not having one ?
You're surrounding yourself with lots of very hard steel. I'd want to be bloody sure none of it was going to come and get me unexpectedly.
see were ur coming from fella theres always that chance
so whats so great about this cds steel its still hard metal but what makes it so much better will it just bend instead of shatering or what
-
Or for £600 get it supplied and fitted
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=139919.0 (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=139919.0)
Paul
-
Or for £600 get it supplied and fitted
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=139919.0 (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=139919.0)
Paul
cheers fella take it ur in a mk3 as well whats ur honest opinon
-
I'm in two minds about a roll cage.
Pro's - Safety in the event of an accident, added stiffness to the chassis, somewhere decent to attach your harnesses
Cons - Cost, weight, danger to your head if you drive the car on the road without a helmet, pain in the a*se to get in and out of the car.
A few other questions would also need to be answered:
Does the cage make the car safer in an accident if it doesn't roll?
Can you get out quick enough in an accident with a fire?
Does the extra chassis stiffness counteract the extra weight?
I would probably go for one if I had the spare cash, knew someone I trusted to install it, and was made of rubber to aid getting in / out.
I've waited nearly 3 years so will probably leave it until I can find a cheap one.
Paul
-
cheers paul have u got harnesses in yours without a cage ? did u use the anchor plates ect if so were did u put them
couple of questions u put i didnt even think about i dout mine will ever see the road so haed is not a prob but if it was goin to be a road car would it be worth just having a half cage in the rear just for the unliky event it rolls ?
-
I did a little research on the whole head vs roll bar thing and as long as you fit bucket seats properly you will not come close to hitting the bars. The buckets will sit much lower than the OEM seats and thus you sit lower in the car and contact with the roof becomes nearly impossible. You can also fit proper safety padding if you are concerned which will limit the effect of any contact should it occour.
As for getting in and out, well I find that more difficult with the bucket anyway but most of the kits have removable door bars so your egress and exit should not be affected, othjer than when they are fitted and that would only be when on Track.
As for the weight the best place for me to lose weight is me! LOL But I am not worried about a few kilos, yes i'll save where possible but this is not a race car and so I am not concerned if I am adding safety. Also when i get round to it I will also lose the sunroof so will save weight in the roof and add it lower down, better all round.
Just my two pennies worth!
-
if it was goin to be a road car would it be worth just having a half cage in the rear just for the unliky event it rolls ?
Just a small point, but worth pointing out:
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/duchess1976/untitled-3.jpg)
Harnesses, buckets and cage need to be installed as a package. They should be approached as a complete solution to driver/passenger safety, not thrown at the car in a half-assed manner because you fancy one/two of them.
A lot of thought went into designing the seat/seatbelt and mountings in your car. it's unlikely you can better that by just 'looks about right' on the seats/harnesses front.
You can't fit a cage without the harnesses because it's the harnesses that stop you moving around sufficiently to prevent you braining yourself on the steel tubing in the car.
You can't fit the harnesses without the bucket seats as standard seats aren't designed to accommodate harness straps (the important ones include the one that comes up from the middle of the seat squab).
You can't fit competition buckets as they're not *normally* designed for a three point belt.
Doing it properly and in a way that's likely not to cause you more harm in the event of an off is expensive.
-
fair point dh so from what ur saying if i put bucket seats in and harness that would be ok providing i use the correct fixings ?
-
Agreed on the half cage its a full one or nothing in my opinion.
Also agreed on the only fit a cage if you have bucket seats and harnesses.
I know what you're saying about the harness fixing DH, I presume your worried about them compressing your spine, but fixing them using the rear seat belt fixings comes within the regs of the rally boys and all their rules and regulations.
I looked into the whole accident scenario when I put my harnesses in and after seeking advice from the harness suppliers (some said ok others said not), the internet (just peoples own opinions), some racers and rallyers (divided), and finally an orthopaedic surgeon (my wife is a sister at the Avon Orthopaedic Centre), I decided to put them in with the rear mountings attached to the rear seat belt points.
This is my own decision - good or bad - but they hold me securely and I feel safer.
Just for interest the Ortho surgeon told me that the trauma would be better on your shoulders than across your chest, with a head on collission at speed you would probably suffer spine compression from being launched forwards however the belts were mounted, and to make sure the lap belt is tight across your lap and not your stomach.
Don't take any of this as gospel but make up your own minds with whatever you are happy a safe with.
Paul
-
I understand your point of view, Paul. I don't agree with it though. :grin:
Rear belt mounts aren't designed to work in the way you're asking them to.
I think you'll find the belt mounts are outside the 20 deg described as 'optimimum' by the Blue Book and a long way towards the 45 deg which is the limit of acceptable.
fair point dh so from what ur saying if i put bucket seats in and harness that would be ok providing i use the correct fixings ?
Correct fixings are on a cage, on harness bars for the shoulder straps. Without the cage, you fail.
-
I understand your point of view, Paul. I don't agree with it though. :grin:
Rear belt mounts aren't designed to work in the way you're asking them to.
I think you'll find the belt mounts are outside the 20 deg described as 'optimimum' by the Blue Book and a long way towards the 45 deg which is the limit of acceptable.
I know but without shelling out another £600 minimum I'm stuck with what I have. :sad:
You can get harness bars which attach to the original seat belt mountings in the pillars and some bars which go down to the floor but these to me look flimsy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/84-92-VW-Jetta-Seatbelt-Seat-Belt-Harness-Bar-RD-87-90-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cec1d1582QQitemZ330378843522QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/84-92-VW-Jetta-Seatbelt-Seat-Belt-Harness-Bar-RD-87-90-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cec1d1582QQitemZ330378843522QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
What do you think?
Another option was to get a cage bar welded to the rear turrets but again without bracing this would it have enough strength.
Open to suitable suggestions.
Paul
-
got any pics of urs paul were u have fixed front and back just out of intrest
-
Ew! I REALLY don't like them.
IIRC the spec on harness bars is a min 50mm dia. Those look to be half of that.
The bar between struts, with spreader plates is an OK idea, but still not ideal, as it's a long way back.
Is your safety not worth £600 then, Paul? :tongue:
-
i'm sure Paul's safety is priceless :wink: (f**king hate that helmet saying)
custom cages do 1.5m lengths of cds @£12.42 so i'm sure it can be had cheaper than that
talking of weight, i see a cage as a good opportunity to balance the weight a bit by having a lot of cage in the back
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i273/Chris_Eyre/VW%20Motorsport/Harness%20FAQ/FIAHarnessv2.jpg)
^
thats all you need to know about harness mounting
-
Ew! I REALLY don't like them.
IIRC the spec on harness bars is a min 50mm dia. Those look to be half of that.
The bar between struts, with spreader plates is an OK idea, but still not ideal, as it's a long way back.
Is your safety not worth £600 then, Paul? :tongue:
Yep thats why I have never bought one of the ebay harness bars.
My safety is worth £600 :evil: but I believe he is oop North somewhere and he can't get it fitted in a day so its a real ball ache logistically.
If I could find someone local that would charge less than my house is worth then I would get one fitted. I've not had any local quotes under £1200 and I count local as anywhere in the South West from Birmingham downwards.
No I can't weld so thats another stumbling block.
Looks like I'll have to look at an ejector seat instead :laugh:
Paul
-
I've been thinking about this and am wondering what do the locost and other kit car manufacturers use for their space-frames? I would be surprised if it is 50mm CDS and if it is not then why should we not use the same specification for our roll cages? I know that the “Blue Book†states this and that but if it is not required for a chassis and we do not intend to race them then I fail to see why it would be unsafe? After all they put seatbelt mounting points into their chassis perfectly safely.
I am going to do some investigation and see where I go. Any comments, especially DH as I value the opposing view in these sort of cases, it assists in sanity checking my own ideas.
-
Lots of interesting discussion on that site over the whole EWS vs CDS argument. A nice usable summary here:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=95261
Some more interesting discussion here:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=79116
Another thread about the use of tube vs box section, interesting to see the thoughts about strength in stress, strain and bending.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=74924&page=1
This gives some ideas on what they actually use:
http://locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=65366
Reading all of this I think that, as long as it is suitably triangulated and supported, EWS tube should be fine.
-
hmmmm well thats well and truly confused me as to what to use now but i think dh is probaly on the mark as to use cds
but dh what would ur thoughts be if i bought the steel but welded it all my self still a no no or would u say depends how confident a welder i was
-
Do it right and there's no reason you shouldn't do it, provided you're a competent welder. I'd make sure you were a competent welder, rather than a confident welder as I've seen things pulled apart very easily, despite being welded by confident welders :grin:
Get to a race meet and look around the paddock at some of the cages and their fixings, or spend a lot of time browsing cage installs online. You could even buy (and read) a book on it - I have a mate who I'll ask for a recommendation - he's bound to have one.....
The main thing is that you follow guidelines for build and ensure you get good penetration (stop sniggering at the back!). Providing you're competent and build it right there's no reason you shouldn't weld a cage up from a kit.
-
get some tube and a hole saw and cut and make some joins up, clam them in an awkward place and then try weld.
then look at teh inside of the tube and see if you can see good penitration
-
well i have decided after yesterday trackday at lydden the mk3 8v is to much of a saggy boat so it will be stripped of all its running gear and put onto a mk2 with a decent suspension
also had issues of overheating :cry:
-
Did you have fun though?
nick
-
Did you have fun though?
nick
first session was like i dont see what all the fuss is about tbh thought it was pretty boring
then second session i was lovin it big time :laugh: i think it was i had never driven the mk3 and was not that used to it but like i said second session i didnt want it to end but the car was overheating some what the needle was off the end of the dial
mk3 8v = fun but slow
so next on the list is a widetrack mk2 so need to find out a little is it just a case of unbolting subframe of mk3 and it bolts straight onto mk2 any ideas
i got the perfect mk2 in my eyes 3dr no sunroof :smiley:
-
so next on the list is a widetrack mk2 so need to find out a little is it just a case of unbolting subframe of mk3 and it bolts straight onto mk2 any ideas
Pretty much, although you'll need to cut the end tabs off the subframe at the back and you'll want a G2 rad on it (it might just be the rad is knackered in the G3.
-
so next on the list is a widetrack mk2 so need to find out a little is it just a case of unbolting subframe of mk3 and it bolts straight onto mk2 any ideas
Pretty much, although you'll need to cut the end tabs off the subframe at the back and you'll want a G2 rad on it (it might just be the rad is knackered in the G3.
cheers dh what about steering rack what one to use
-
*shrugs*
Which ever you want. Some sad-act can tell you which is quicker, but I doubt there's much difference...
-
*shrugs*
Which ever you want. Some sad-act can tell you which is quicker, but I doubt there's much difference...
lol cheers m8
-
The backing plates and eyebolts can be had relativly cheaply from most of the usual suppliers, I think that I paid a few quid each. The rivets are just there to hold the backing plate in place whilst you are faffing around with the eyebolts as they tighten up nicely and pull the plate hard against the floor.
-
rite slight change of plan still fitting the harness at a later date but had a change of cars :smug:
mk2 3dr non sunroof 1.3 now is a 2.0l 16v with wide track conversion well nearly lol hopefully engine will be in tommorow
goin back to the harness were do u put the front harnes bolts got the backing plates and eyelets now just not sure were to mount them want to get them in now tho as car is up in the air ect just save me doin it at a later date
heres a couple of pics so far
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p319/leeroy8v/S1030517.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p319/leeroy8v/S1030519.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p319/leeroy8v/S1030520.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p319/leeroy8v/S1030533.jpg)
dh i forgot to cut the tabs off at the back of mk3 subframe but it all bolted up ok would this matter ?
aslo done the manual rack and got new tie rods spot on nice one
cheers lee
-
Nah - shouldn't matter.
Do let me know if you get any odd resonances though....
-
Nah - shouldn't matter.
Do let me know if you get any odd resonances though....
will do was just thinking of bolting them in tbh cant hurt can it
-
for the front harness bolts you follow that diagram i posted earlier in the thread, measure the angle, follow the angle down and drill hole wherever is suitable
-
This needs a build thread. Good work dude, nice to see the running gear in the right MK of Golf :cool:
Nick
-
for the front harness bolts you follow that diagram i posted earlier in the thread, measure the angle, follow the angle down and drill hole wherever is suitable
cheers m8 im hopeless with angles and stuff like that i will have to see if any one i know can work it out This needs a build thread. Good work dude, nice to see the running gear in the right MK of Golf :cool:
Nick
will start one soon i promise :smiley:
for colour on the mk2 i think we are goin to do it the g40 gulf colours
-
well you have a range of 20degrees (45 to 65) for the fronts so just give it a good guess with a protractor!
you can't say just bolt it there as different seat positions will change things unfortunately
-
well you have a range of 20degrees (45 to 65) for the fronts so just give it a good guess with a protractor!
you can't say just bolt it there as different seat positions will change things unfortunately
yer im with u so in therory if theres a huge change in seat positions between me and my m8 who will be using i could do with 4 lots eyelets upfront
-
well you have a range of 20degrees (45 to 65) for the fronts so just give it a good guess with a protractor!
you can't say just bolt it there as different seat positions will change things unfortunately
yer im with u so in therory if theres a huge change in seat positions between me and my m8 who will be using i could do with 4 lots eyelets upfront
That's what I have done with the front of mine so that SWIMBO will fit. The backing plates are not expencive and it is safe. You don't need to do the same for the passenger side so it really is not too difficult.
PS I can't see the pics from work so will log on at home later but it all sounds good!
-
This needs a build thread. Good work dude, nice to see the running gear in the right MK of Golf :cool:
Nick
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=161726.0