harness advice

[leeroy20vt]

cheers paul have u got harnesses in yours without a cage ? did u use the anchor plates ect if so were did u put them

couple of questions u put i didnt even think about i dout mine will ever see the road so haed is not a prob but if it was goin to be a road car would it be worth just having a half cage in the rear just for the unliky event it rolls ?

[JonLeeper]

I did a little research on the whole head vs roll bar thing and as long as you fit bucket seats properly you will not come close to hitting the bars.  The buckets will sit much lower than the OEM seats and thus you sit lower in the car and contact with the roof becomes nearly impossible.  You can also fit proper safety padding if you are concerned which will limit the effect of any contact should it occour.

As for getting in and out, well I find that more difficult with the bucket anyway but most of the kits have removable door bars so your egress and exit should not be affected, othjer than when they are fitted and that would only be when on Track.

As for the weight the best place for me to lose weight is me! LOL  But I am not worried about a few kilos, yes i'll save where possible but this is not a race car and so I am not concerned if I am adding safety.  Also when i get round to it I will also lose the sunroof so will save weight in the roof and add it lower down, better all round.

Just my two pennies worth!

[Diamond Hell]

if it was goin to be a road car would it be worth just having a half cage in the rear just for the unliky event it rolls ?

Just a small point, but worth pointing out:



Harnesses, buckets and cage need to be installed as a package.  They should be approached as a complete solution to driver/passenger safety, not thrown at the car in a half-assed manner because you fancy one/two of them.

A lot of thought went into designing the seat/seatbelt and mountings in your car.  it's unlikely you can better that by just 'looks about right' on the seats/harnesses front.

You can't fit a cage without the harnesses because it's the harnesses that stop you moving around sufficiently to prevent you braining yourself on the steel tubing in the car. 

You can't fit the harnesses without the bucket seats as standard seats aren't designed to accommodate harness straps (the important ones include the one that comes up from the middle of the seat squab).

You can't fit competition buckets as they're not *normally* designed for a three point belt.

Doing it properly and in a way that's likely not to cause you more harm in the event of an off is expensive.

[leeroy20vt]

fair point dh so from what ur saying if i put bucket seats in and harness that would be ok providing i use the correct fixings ?

[Paul86S2]

Agreed on the half cage its a full one or nothing in my opinion.

Also agreed on the only fit a cage if you have bucket seats and harnesses.

I know what you're saying about the harness fixing DH, I presume your worried about them compressing your spine, but fixing them using the rear seat belt fixings comes within the regs of the rally boys and all their rules and regulations.

I looked into the whole accident scenario when I put my harnesses in and after seeking advice from the harness suppliers (some said ok others said not), the internet (just peoples own opinions), some racers and rallyers (divided), and finally an orthopaedic surgeon (my wife is a sister at the Avon Orthopaedic Centre), I decided to put them in with the rear mountings attached to the rear seat belt points.

This is my own decision - good or bad - but they hold me securely and I feel safer.

Just for interest the Ortho surgeon told me that the trauma would be better on your shoulders than across your chest, with a head on collission at speed you would probably suffer spine compression from being launched forwards however the belts were mounted, and to make sure the lap belt is tight across your lap and not your stomach.

Don't take any of this as gospel but make up your own minds with whatever you are happy a safe with.

Paul

[Diamond Hell]

I understand your point of view, Paul.  I don't agree with it though. 

Rear belt mounts aren't designed to work in the way you're asking them to.

I think you'll find the belt mounts are outside the 20 deg described as 'optimimum' by the Blue Book and a long way towards the 45 deg which is the limit of acceptable.

fair point dh so from what ur saying if i put bucket seats in and harness that would be ok providing i use the correct fixings ?

Correct fixings are on a cage, on harness bars for the shoulder straps.  Without the cage, you fail.

[Paul86S2]

I understand your point of view, Paul.  I don't agree with it though. 

Rear belt mounts aren't designed to work in the way you're asking them to.

I think you'll find the belt mounts are outside the 20 deg described as 'optimimum' by the Blue Book and a long way towards the 45 deg which is the limit of acceptable.

I know but without shelling out another £600 minimum I'm stuck with what I have.

You can get harness bars which attach to the original seat belt mountings in the pillars and some bars which go down to the floor but these to me look flimsy.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/84-92-VW-Jetta-Seatbelt-Seat-Belt-Harness-Bar-RD-87-90-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cec1d1582QQitemZ330378843522QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

What do you think?

Another option was to get a cage bar welded to the rear turrets but again without bracing this would it have enough strength.

Open to suitable suggestions.

Paul

[leeroy20vt]

got any pics of urs paul were u have fixed front and back just out of intrest

[Diamond Hell]

Ew!  I REALLY don't like them.

IIRC the spec on harness bars is a min 50mm dia.  Those look to be half of that.

The bar between struts, with spreader plates is an OK idea, but still not ideal, as it's a long way back.

Is your safety not worth £600 then, Paul?  

[VeeDubGTI16v]

i'm sure Paul's safety is priceless  (f**king hate that helmet saying)

custom cages do 1.5m lengths of cds @£12.42 so i'm sure it can be had cheaper than that

talking of weight, i see a cage as a good opportunity to balance the weight a bit by having a lot of cage in the back


^
thats all you need to know about harness mounting