GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Golf mk2 gallery => Topic started by: JonLeeper on 23 September 2009, 23:39
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Well I have just taken the plunge and bought a 1988 Mk2 GTi for a track toy. It is a good solid shell that two brothers started to strip out for a project but have had to sell. It looks like a good solid shell and at 177000 miles is well run in! Comes with nearly stripped interior, some of which I'll have to put back or make from a bit of sheet ali (such as door cards ), strut braces front and rear and nice new(ish) tyres. The suspension looked clean and it looked a touch lower than stock when I viewed it so I am hopeful that it may have had a sympathetic owner in the past. The brothers have not done anything mechanical to it other than strip out the heater as it was leaking so I will have to sort all that out when I get my hands on it. It needs an MOT but that should be arranged for the end of the week and then it will come home to sit on my drive and I can start to get to grips with it.
The current strategy is to give the engine a good service, filters, belts etc and make sure that everything is is good working order. That is unless the MOT shows up anything untoward. I am then looking for some late 16v hubs etc as that seems to be the way to go. I will have to replace the current seats as they are some sort of old bucket but very narrow in the "hip" area and I was very uncomfortable getting in and out of them. Rocco would appear to be the way to go from my reading but I am going to use this mainly as a track toy so there may be better options. Budget is an issue, when is it not, but a slow drip feed of cash will be made available, as long as my better half doesn't ask too many questions,so upgrades are on the cards.
Main effort is to get it road legal and out on a track as soon as possible, hopefully this months or early next! I will post some pictures as soon as it is on my drive and available.
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This by any chance?
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=128994.0
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Bloody hell! Yes that's it any more info on previous work that's been done or I need to check to see if it's still there? Also anyone local know where the best place to get something like this MOT'ed? I will be doing all of the mechanical work myself so just need a local garage to actually perform the MOT and not be looking for a shed load of cash for the privilege.
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Bloody hell! Yes that's it any more info
It spits flames when not timed / fueled quite right :tongue:
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I originally bought it back in January 2006 with a short MOT and tax for £300. By the time i insured it (April) the MOT had run out. It needed a couple of brake line clips and a small patch welding near the fos jacking point iirc. It then proceeded to fly through any MOTs after that. After about a year i had issues with an intermittent misfire around 2.5-3k rpm. A full service inc plugs, leads, etc sorted that. I then had 2 weeks of constant breakdowns, turned out to be the hall sender so i replaced the dizzy (which led to what Chris said :lipsrsealed:). After the timing was sorted the flames weren't as big :cry:
Just before i bought it, it had new under car fuel lines...........
Actually, it's all here: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=32996.0
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its got my old driveshaft on it :grin:
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I and I bought it off Mew, ran it for a year and then sold it to Llewelyn on here. I had issues with the oil pressure electics. I had the pressure tested and it was fine but the light kept flashing despite changing the sensor.
My dub rides thread for the period I owned it.
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=66964.0
Nick
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Well it is nice to know that this is a known car, although it does seem to have been a "slag" and gone through a few of the faithful over the years!
Looking quickly through the history I think it starts in Jan 07 when Mew purchases the car with the aim of changing the engine and a lot of other bits. According to the thread listed it had Koni adjustables and Eibach springs fitted, a supersprint back box and a 22.2mm master cylinder before it was passed to Horney in Sept 07 to continue the good work.
I have found Horneys thread here, http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=66964.0, but have not yet worked through the 38 pages to digest what actually happened to the car during his ownership. Original plans appears to be much the same as Mews until it was sold to james in Apr 08. I will try and read through the thread tonight, work blocks the pictures so not easy to follow any thread, and get to grips with what has been done.
From Apr 08 I loose track of her until now, but it may be that James is the same bloke that I am buying it off.
I will await any further news!
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How much did you pay for it if you don't mind me asking?
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James sold it not long after he bought it from me as he goes through cars like most people go through dinners.
nick
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didnt he sell it because of the terminal rust in the rear arches? :lipsrsealed:
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No pretty sure that was the monza blue valver he bought afterwards.
nick
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lol, im trying to wind up the new owner (and failing)
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Doh! I should have lept me mouth shut, ha ha.
nick
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I thought the fluxuationaldupertransicationalthine capacitor had blown up ? :huh:
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Buy a sheet of Foamalux for the doorcards. Light and easy to work.
Get shut of the nasty harnesses - you need either 5-6 point 3" harnesses to go with bucket seats, or 3-point belts + a CG lock for the driver to go with Scirocco seats. Running 4-point harnesses with OEM seats will hurt a LOT in a crash. Either fit a heavy duty harness bar to the rear of the car, or put in a proper cage with harness bars if you're fitting harnesses.
Check the bushes on the suspension and replace if suspect. If you do the front control arms stitch-weld them and fit TT bushes at the back - this will give you really good steering response and feedback.
Good luck with it. Should be a fun car. :smiley:
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have you not seen the picture of the popped testicle :sick: im sticking to 4 point harnesses :grin:
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Think it was beyond popped!
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Right I have just come back form one of the most interesting meeting ever, NOT, and thought I would reply before heading home. Firstly I have not yet paid anything, but will be handing over £360 to Jamie tomorrow or possibly Saturday whenever I can fix up an MOT so that I can drive it legally there. As for the state of the rear arches I would have thought that the sills might have been a better bet as they can rot from the inside out! Never mind better luck next time.
As for my plans I did, during my meeting, think a lot about plans and have jotted some notes down to share and get feedback on. Please bear in mind that I want to use this mainly as a Track Day Toy but it will have to drive there and back and may have to get me around in extremis when the wife has the other car.
Firstly it will have to be MOT’ed and that will show up any issues which will form Priority One jobs to get it road legal. Next I will do a thorough track day preparation, full service, and anything else in order to get out as soon as possible. I will then book a track day and go enjoy my new toy in its current state, hopefully this month but definitely next, Priority One Jobs not withstanding. I want to ensure that I get a little instruction on the day as well and if there is someone there who knows what a good GTi should feel like and they can have a play to tell me where to concentrate my efforts that would also be great. I will then attend to anything that breaks and sit back happy in the knowledge that I have now done the very thing I bought the car for.
Not withstanding anything that crops up from the track day the longer term plan is as follows:
Stage 1 – Brakes
Fit 256mm or 280mm discs dependant on advice or feedback from track day.
Fit hubs and renew wheel bearings from late 16v or G60.
Identify suitable wheels and tyres to suit track day setup.
If normal steels, for road work to and from track, don’t fit over new brakes get another set that do and adjust speedo to reflect new tyre rolling radius.
Stage 2 – Seats/Interior
Remove horrible tight buckets currently fitted.
Fit new buckets, if available for not much money, or ‘rocco, as they seem to be the best alternative.
Identify correct seat belts for seats bought – normal 3 points for ‘rocco or 4 point harnesses with some sort of brace bar if buckets.
Sort ergonomics of cabin – door cards, gauges, steering wheel, binnacle, etc.
Stage 3 – Handling
Source shocks and springs to make best use of handling.
Sort wishbones – seam weld?
Fit new bushes – poly?
Source new ARB’s or refurbish existing.
Sort steering rack, track rods anything else that sits in this area.
Look at roll cage – if costs allow.
Stage 4 – Power
Look at engine transplants. What, from where, why, etc
Look at getting the best out of the existing engine. Throttle bodies, exhaust, gearbox mods, etc.
These stages are a bit vague and parts availability or finances may mean that I end up doing something’s out of turn. Any comment gratefully received.
Jon
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Buy a sheet of Foamalux for the doorcards. Light and easy to work.
Get shut of the nasty harnesses - you need either 5-6 point 3" harnesses to go with bucket seats, or 3-point belts + a CG lock for the driver to go with Scirocco seats. Running 4-point harnesses with OEM seats will hurt a LOT in a crash. Either fit a heavy duty harness bar to the rear of the car, or put in a proper cage with harness bars if you're fitting harnesses.
Check the bushes on the suspension and replace if suspect. If you do the front control arms stitch-weld them and fit TT bushes at the back - this will give you really good steering response and feedback.
Good luck with it. Should be a fun car. :smiley:
Thats sounds like a good idea, where do I get a sheet of Foamalux from? It dosen't have harnesses fitted at the moment, just those tatty buckets and normal 3 point seatbelts.
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Your plans sound bang on the money mate. I drive mine to and from track days as well.
nick
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Foamalux is a brand. It's used widely in sign-making, so have a chat to a few sign makers and you should come up trumps.
Tips on upgrades:
Think about a cage sooner rather than later - it might just save your life. It's the one thing that's easy to justify to t'other half. But you need to do buckets, and harnesses with the cage, as a 'safety package'.
For wheels I'd recommend Team Dynamics - my 15"X7 weigh about 6.6kg each and make a big difference to the car's handling. Tyres you have a choice of Toyo R888s, or guys on Northloop seem to be rating the Kuhmo V70 (I think that's the model).
have you not seen the picture of the popped testicle :sick: im sticking to 4 point harnesses :grin:
:rolleyes:
Yes, I've seen the de-gloved photo.
That's what happens if you have a big accident when the harness isn't tightened properly. Sometimes you need to actually read the report beneath the photo to be able to interpret the evidence properly, rather than using it to justify fitting shoddy, insufficient equipment.
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OK I am going to pick the car up at luchtime, and the MOT is booked for 1500 hrs so we will see!
In order to assist in my planning I was wondering what the rough order costs are associated with my plans? No specifics just a rough idea will be fine. I have started with what I have gleaned from around the site but please feel free at add as appropreate.
Stage 1 – Brakes
Fit 256mm or 280mm discs dependant on advice or feedback from track day. £50 each new
Fit hubs and renew wheel bearings from late 16v or G60. £50 pair from scrappy
Identify suitable wheels and tyres to suit track day setup.
If normal steels, for road work to and from track, don’t fit over new brakes get another set that do and adjust speedo to reflect new tyre rolling radius.
Stage 2 – Seats/Interior
Remove horrible tight buckets currently fitted.
Fit new buckets, if available for not much money, or ‘rocco, as they seem to be the best alternative. 'rocco seats £80 pair e-bay
Identify correct seat belts for seats bought – normal 3 points for ‘rocco or 4 point harnesses with some sort of brace bar if buckets.
Sort ergonomics of cabin – door cards, gauges, steering wheel, binnacle, etc.
Stage 3 – Handling
Source shocks and springs to make best use of handling.
Sort wishbones – seam weld?
Fit new bushes – poly?
Source new ARB’s or refurbish existing.
Sort steering rack, track rods anything else that sits in this area.
Look at roll cage – if costs allow.
Stage 4 – Power
Look at engine transplants. What, from where, why, etc
Look at getting the best out of the existing engine. Throttle bodies, exhaust, gearbox mods, etc.
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OK I am going to pick the car up at luchtime, and the MOT is booked for 1500 hrs so we will see!
In order to assist in my planning I was wondering what the rough order costs are associated with my plans? No specifics just a rough idea will be fine. I have started with what I have gleaned from around the site but please feel free at add as appropreate.
Stage 1 – Brakes
Fit 256mm or 280mm discs dependant on advice or feedback from track day. £50 each new
Fit hubs and renew wheel bearings from late 16v or G60. £50 pair from scrappy
Identify suitable wheels and tyres to suit track day setup. Toyo R88's are baout £70 a pop fitted for 195 50 R15's, should be able to pick up a cheap set of 15" ET35 alloys with no tyres for £50 for them to go on. Try and find the lightest wheels you can.
If normal steels, for road work to and from track, don’t fit over new brakes get another set that do and adjust speedo to reflect new tyre rolling radius. 14" GTI steels wwill fit over the brakes except for the G60's which will require 15's. I run a late 16v set up with grooved discs and Mintex 1155 pads and they have been perfect so far with no noticable fade after heavey sessions on track, rear I run the standard set up.
Stage 2 – Seats/Interior
Remove horrible tight buckets currently fitted.
Fit new buckets, if available for not much money, or ‘rocco, as they seem to be the best alternative. 'rocco seats £80 pair e-bay - Corrado seats are just as good and should have better sondition bolsters etc being a bit newer than Rocco seats, they also fit straight in
Identify correct seat belts for seats bought – normal 3 points for ‘rocco or 4 point harnesses with some sort of brace bar if buckets.
Sort ergonomics of cabin – door cards, gauges, steering wheel, binnacle, etc. Gauges can be picked up cheap, you should be able to source a set of VDO gauges with all the right wires and senders for them to work for about £50 - £60.
Stage 3 – Handling
Source shocks and springs to make best use of handling. - What sort of budget?
Sort wishbones – seam weld? A full poly bush set isn't hugely expensive and DH will weld your wishbones if you ask nicely.
Fit new bushes – poly? For sure, DH seems to recommend using a TT bush at the rear as well. Not tried it myself but he seems impressed with them. I run all poly and that's good for me.
Source new ARB’s or refurbish existing. You can fit bigger ARB up front and there are rear ARB's available. Can't help you much more on that as I run standard front and no rear.
Sort steering rack, track rods anything else that sits in this area.
Look at roll cage – if costs allow. From emory the OMP one is about £450 and you'll need to get some plates welded up to get it to fit so budget approx £550 I would say.
Stage 4 – Power
Look at engine transplants. What, from where, why, etc Easiest and cheapest is a 2.0 16v ABF engine fitted to MKIII Gti's and a few Seats etc. Will require some mods and some wiring changes but not to bad. Should see 170bhp ish with a decent zorst.
Look at getting the best out of the existing engine. Throttle bodies, exhaust, gearbox mods, etc. 8v head is not cross flow so TB's are a pain to fit. Best bet with an 8v is to cam it, Polished and Ported head, flowed inlet and exhaust manifold etc etc. But this all costs £££££ so it's cheaper to pick up and fit the ABF as mentioned above. That said the standard 8v will be fun to begin with, I'm lucky as my 8v cam already fettled at someone elses expense otherwise I would be looking into a 16v upgrade myself.
Hope that helps chap, hopefully get to go on a trackday together at somepoitn as it would be good to see my old car again.
nick
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h&r arb's are great! 28mm rear and 25mm front cost roughly £250
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Well it's now outside the house and failed it's first MOT. :cry:
I nearly didn't get it MOT'ed at all as the old boy why started the test rushed into the office where I was sitting and announced that he couldn't test it! I said why and he said because it hasn't got any interior. I said so, and he proceeded to lecture me about the fact that it ought to have an interior and couldn't be road legal without one! When I asked to see the VOSA manual that stated he couldn't MOT a car with only two front seats he said that I could go home and fit a rear seat back in and then he wouldn't have checked the rear seatbelts and that was illegal so he couldn't test the car. When I asked him to show me the VOSA handbook or law that said you couldn't alter your car without making it illegal he said that he would have to give me lots of advisory s as this was very unusual. He then went back to the car telling the secretary that this would take some time as he had to check everything very thoroughly as this obviously wasn't right. I just sat tight and said nothing as I held little hope that it would pas anyway and just wanted a check list of things to do this weekend.
In the end it failed on a repeater light, one of the two rear registration plate lights, rear fog, both headlamps, windscreen washer not being full, the passenger door not opening and a CV gaiter being split. I got two advisor's, the first that there were no rear seats or belts and the other that the horn button was missing! I thought that it would fail on the horn but that was only an advisory!
Still it all seems easily fixed so I should get a valid test certificate in the next week or so. I will then try and find a garage that understands that some people do actually alter their cars and it is not against the law. On a slightly better note he did say that the shell was in a good condition with no real rust underneath and everything looked mechanically very sound, so that is a relief.
I will take some pictures tomorrow and post them up.
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Poor MOT tester, ha ha. I get all those kind of "no rear seats" advisories with mine.
SOunds like it's a pretty easy job to get it through the MOT though so nice one!
Nick
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Only got out to the car last thing as I had to do some jobs around the house first, sodding movers had left the mower on its end and the oil had flooded through the entire system. Took ages to flush it out and then I created a smokescreen worthy of a main battle tank when it finally fired! Still I did get into the car, even if it was only for a few minutes. I decided that the first job to tackle was the non opening door. After swearing at the electric motor for far too long I simply unscrewed it from the door frame and "hey presto" to door works perfectly. It even responds to the key as it should, well it lifts the central locking motor as well but it works! I will fiddle tomorrow and remove the electric motor totally and remove all of the wiring associated with it. I will also, hopefully, fix all of the bulb issues. As for the headlights any ideas why they would not be powerful enough? At least that is what I read into the testers comments "no beam pattern on nearside or offside" as it does not say "light inoperative" just no beam pattern! All ideas gratefully received.
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I seem to recall I had loads of hassle with the central locking on that car, probably best to just bin it.
As for the lights it sounds like a combo of the standard rubbish lights and perished reflectors. I'd look into an uprated headlight loom and couple of new lamps. Looms can be got off ebay as can lamps. The loom replace the existing one and should include a couple of relays. You then by pass the existing loom and run them stright off the battery via a relay triggered from the old wiring, bingo brighter lights!
Nick
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Mixed day on the car today. I managed to get the side indicator to work, loose connection, and the front lights had the wrong bulbs fitted so replaced them with the correct items and, hey presto, front lights working. The doors had both of the central locking motors and all associated wiring removed and all is now fine there as well. I then started to work on the rear fogs. That was a big mistake, cue hours of chasing loom around the car. The new bulbs fitted a treat but didn't light any better than the ones I took out! I cannot tell if the switch is working as I cannot get a reading anywhere on the system at all. If anyone knows anything about the electrics please let me know as I am stumped and really don't want to spend a small fortune getting a garage to find the fault for me. The other two MOT fail points are a CV gaiter (easy to fit?) and the one of the two rear numberplate lights. I forgot to buy a bulb for that but when I swapped the working one to the other side it still worked so it is just the bulb. So if anyone knows how difficult it is to change the CV gaiter let me know and also where is the best place to buy these sort of parts on the Bracknell / Camberley area.
Jon
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Is it the outer CV? I think you can ger full replacement CV's with a new boot which might be worth a shout as new CV's will be good if you're tracking it. Whatever you do don't buy the split boot things you glue together, they're rubbish. I tried using one on this very car and gave up. In the end Mark fitted a complete driveshaft with decent CV's and boots on it.
Sounds like you've made excellent progress so far though! If you get it MOT'd by the 14th see if you can up to the No-Rice meet in Guildford.
nick
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It had better be ready by then, if I don't get it finished next week I have to pay for a complete new test, and at over £50 that's expensive.
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Well I have spoken to jamie, who I bought the car off, and he has found the washer bottle and the horn, so I will pick them up this week and they should be fitted relativly easily. The CV boot looks like it will be a big job and I will have to take the entire driveshaft out to fit! I am still chasing the bloody foglight wiring around the car looking for the problem. More as i get it....
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Fault finally traced with the fogs so I can now move onto the next job, CV Boot.
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a good place for bits is gsf in badshot lea, or theres a few euro car parts around.
just seen your location, you have a perfect test drive road in the pirbright bends!
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The outer CV boots go more commonly. If it is the outer then you need to undo the nut on the end of the driveshaft, then the pinch bolt on the bottom of the upright. Push the control arm down and swing the strut away on the steering arm.
You can then cut the remains of the boot off with a stanley knife and a couple of blows to the CV with a soft-faced hammer should get it off the shaft.
To change the inner boot you need to release the six allen/12-spline bolts on the gearbox flange and then the shaft will come straight off. The inner CV is released with a circlip and should then just tap off.
If you need to do the inner I'd do both ends just cos it's off and the outer will go just out of spite once it's back on the car.
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Thanks for that I'll, hopefully, get the car jacked up later today and have a look which boot it is. I was looking through the wheel yesturday evening and the brake disc appears to fill the space almost exactally. What I didn't check was the size of the wheel though! It is a normal steel wheel so I'm guessing, on reflection as I type this, that it is a 14" and I shouldn't get too excited that someone might have swapped the hubs for late 16v ones and 256mm discs. Still I can but hope!
I trip to Halfrauds is needed as someone has pinched my trolley jack and I'll need one to get the front of the car up. I also now need an electrical fixings kit to repair the wires for the fog light. It all adds up this car larky dosen't it!
Jon
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On a side note I have been thinking about the brake conversions and other stuff. I have seen a number of people who have converted their Mk2's to a wider track. I have searched but nothing about the actual conversion and what parts are needed and how difficult it was. My musing is this, if I have to swap the hubs to get bigger brakes then is it easy/worth fitting a wider front track at the same time? I am all of doing things once but doing them properly so if it is reltivly easy I may as well get wishbones, driveshafts and hubs together from the scrappy as just the hubs. If I do this I can polybush at the same time and all is done in a onner. If, of course, it is a difficult conversion then I will just find some hubs and be done with it.
Just my musings as I am sat at work bored!!!!!
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Wide track seems very popular although I've not done it myself. Mark has however and you can read how he went about it in his build thread.
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=76543.0
Hope that helps a bit.
Nick
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Yes that's one of the threads that got me thinking about the conversion. what it doesen't do, and neither do any of the others i've found, is say what is required and how difficult it is to fit. Most of the conversions seem to be done when an engine hange is completed so I am wondering if you need a new subframe? For example which wishbones are needed, dirveshafts and can they be fitted to a Mk2 box? Do you need to reshape the wings to prevent the wider track rubbing? Lots of questions and not many answers I know, but as I said I am only thinkg about it. I guess what I am trying to understand is what I should be looking out for at the scrappy when I go. Do I need other parts that I could pick up and store for a later day, and if so what will be useful?
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Fair enough. I'm pretty sure Mark has a proper list of what he did and what he used somewhere. No doubt he'll appear on this thread at somepoint and fill you in.
Nick
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This might help a bit:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=48987.0
Nick
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Fair enough. I'm pretty sure Mark has a proper list of what he did and what he used somewhere. No doubt he'll appear on this thread at somepoint and fill you in.
Nick
I hope not, all I did was ask the question! ;)
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errrrrrr :sick: :grin:
there is a few ways to do it, but the way i did it used the following bits-
passat wishbones
passat steering arms
passat driveshafts
10mm spacer behind the stub axle ( can use a stub axle from a golf with drum brakes with the stub milled off)
ford cosworth bolts to replace the stub axle bolts (higher tensile rating and longer, ill try and find the part numbers in a bit)
6mm normal wheel spacers on the back
this widens the track 16mm per corner :afro:
the only hard job is removing the steering arms from the rack with everything on the car, and the stub axle bolts can be a bit of a b!tch to get out without snapping
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errrrrrr :sick: :grin:
there is a few ways to do it, but the way i did it used the following bits-
passat wishbones
passat steering arms
passat driveshafts
10mm spacer behind the stub axle ( can use a stub axle from a golf with drum brakes with the stub milled off)
ford cosworth bolts to replace the stub axle bolts (higher tensile rating and longer, ill try and find the part numbers in a bit)
6mm normal wheel spacers on the back
this widens the track 16mm per corner :afro:
the only hard job is removing the steering arms from the rack with everything on the car, and the stub axle bolts can be a bit of a b!tch to get out without snapping
Know what you mean! ;)
I take it that the Passat hubs can be used with carriers and brakes as well?
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i think so. just make sure that the hub and caliper carrier are seperate items, then you can use 256mm or 280mm discs on the hubs. the 8v hubs for 239mm brakes are all one piece so bigger discs cannot be fitted
im only down the road from you if you want to have a look at what ive done
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I would love to have a look but transport is an issue, until the MOT is passed ;), so will have to wait a week or so. I will then be looking to see who has what seats and stuff as well to see what I need to get. Many thanks for the offer and I will take you up on it. I will also have to try and see Horney's as he has been very helpful so far.
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Right another quick update (read slow day at work! ;)) and to keep you all abreast of my progress, I know you are all hanging on my every move! :kiss:
I went out last night, after returning from an interminable all day meeting in London, and collected a crimping tool and some connections from Halfrauds and then popped round to Jamie’s and collected the windscreen washer bottle and the horn switch. All good to go now, less the CV boot of course, and this lunchtime I decided that the weather was too good not to fit at least a little bit and took an extra ½ hour to tinker. Result is that the rear number plate now has two lights, the rear fog is permanently fixed and the loom zip tied back together, the horn switch is fitted and I have fitted and removed the washer bottle! It fitted back nicely and I tested that it worked (jets need aligning but that’s all), all fine, then when I went round to tighten the fixing nut I noticed that water was pissing out from the bottom of the bottle. I blocked off the rear washer line and it was still leaking so I assumed that the bottle would need fixing. Off it came and I took it inside to wash and inspect, thought about using the dishwasher (but my Better Half would not have understood!) and dismissed the idea very rapidly. A quick wash-up, in the sink, later and I refilled it to test. With the pump hole covered it held water fine so all I can assume is that the seal didn’t and I need to be very careful when I refit to prevent the water just pissing out when I fill it up.
So that is all of the MOT jobs, including the only advisory (horn switch) I am going to worry about (fitting the rear seats and belts back in is not going to happen) except the CV boot. Tonight’s job is to jack up the front and have a look which boot it is and, hopefully, get the old one off ready too go and buy another. If al goes really smoothly I might just have a chance of retesting on Fri and being able to actually drive the car at the weekend! Wish me luck,
Jon
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Oh just as I remember I have bought a set of 15†rims from e-bay and bid on a new fog light switch. I now don’t need the switch as the one I have has decided to work, but for £2.00 and les than that in postage if I win it will not break the bank! I will need to go and collect the rims and then buy some tyres but they will be my new track wheels, I hope!
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Nice work Jon, have you put any thought into what tyres you're going to go for?
Nick
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No, not really. What’s the consensus on the best cheep(ish) track day tyre? For my first day I will probably run the current 14’s and tyres and fit the 15’s when I fit better brakes. That way I can concentrate on getting the car serviced and ready for a day’s playing rather than worrying about tyres.
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The general consensus is that Toyo T1-R's are a pretty good allrounder but need the first few mm scrubbed off or they over heat badly in the dry.
I run a set of Toyo R888 medium compund cut slicks for dry use (about £80 a corner fitted) and I'm hoping to get a set of Uni Royal Rainsport 2's for road and wet trackday use (about £50 a corner fitted).
The Toyo Cut Slicks are road legal but as they relatively soft compound I only ever use them on track to save wear so I use 2 sets of wheels. The wets on all the time and the cut slicks get chucked in the boot for trackday use.
Hope that makes sense.
nick
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Well I tried to get the hub nut off and had no luck. I have borrowed a longer breaker bar so, hopefully, will have it off tomorrow. I did manage to jack the car up to see which boot it was and could not find anything wrong for about 20 mins until I noticed a tiny, <1/4", crack forming in the inner boot. It is not even all the way through the rubber but that must be what they have picked up! I will now have to take the entire driveshaft out and will replace both boots whist it is off. I did manage to take some photos though so here they are:
General shot from the rear
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2644/3972922350_a060ee5cb8.jpg)
Side profile
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/3972923024_f7a27d58e7.jpg)
Other side
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3493/3972155561_ce80bd33db.jpg)
Front
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2522/3972924630_9a74ba8ee6.jpg)
Wheel removed. Does anyone have any idea of what suspension this is fitted? The disk is the normal small 256mm and the calliper mounted directly to the hub so that is all standard 8v running gear. Is the shock and spring the standard too?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3503/3972157565_7758a27773.jpg)
Sorry for the dreadful pics, especially the last on camera flash is a horrible thing, but they are straight out of the camera without any post processing.
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I see no ones managed to get that exhaust to hang right still, I spent hours on the dman thing and gave up in the end.
As for the suspension I can't help. I fitted a used set up I bought off a fella on Edition 38, I think it was a Gmax kit, it was deffo on drop 60mm springs. It doesn't look that low anymore though so I suspect it's been changed again since I had it.
She looks good mate, I always loved how she looked after a good clean and polish.
Nick
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Right another update. Went round and borrowed a large 30mm socket and bar from a friend. The only bar he had was an old torque wrench but it as rated to 300nNm and he said it wasn't that accurate any more so I was welcome to use it. I also borrowed half a scaffold pole just in case! I tried with just the torque wrench and nothing so added the scaffold pole and managed to bend the torque wrench! :embarassed: The nut did finally loosen but I now owe him a new torque wrench, which I have just bought at Halfrauds for a princely £60. :cry: Still I needed to get some spline sockets to undo the inner CV joint so the trip wasn't wasted. They also had the CV boot and some grease so I am all set to actually change the boot. Came home and set up the halogen spot lamp, doesn't it get dark early at the moment, and with the correct spline socket, 8mm if anyone is interested, it came straight off. Well the bits are now in the garage waiting for me tomorrow and should, hopefully, be back on the car this weekend. Then all I need to do is take it back to the MOT center and get my pass certificate. :rolleyes:
I also got a call from a scrappy today about some late 16v hubs and callipers. He wants £40 a side and £12 to post so that's about £100 all in. I need to ring him back and ask what it would cost for the Passat lower wishbones, hubs, callipers, driveshafts and tie rods as if the difference is not a great deal I may as well do it all in a oner and get the benefit of a wider track and better brakes all at once. It would also allow me to seam weld the lower wishbones and poly bush them in slow time off the car before simply fitting. Still that is in the future and I need to get it on the road before I can do anything.
More tomorrow, I hope,
Jon
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Didn't manage to get much done today as I had to clear and sort out the garage so that we can see a bit of what's been dumped in there and I can put the chest freezer in tomorrow when I go and get it. It does mean that I now have a bench back so I can work on bits after I have removed them and be slightly warm and out of the weather. I did glue the plastic tube back over the impeller on the windscreen washer pump, I will refit in the morning and see if it has worked or if I really do need to buy another one, and picked up my new 15" wheels. The are 6 spoke excite wheels and look a little shabby but are very light and will fit over the new brakes, when I get them. One has a tyre on it, Pirelli P6000 or sumsuch in 195/50 R 15 size. I will trial fit them at some point before buying some tyres.
More soon, I hope,
Jon
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Well I finally got all of the jobs finished, the spline bolts were a nightmare to get off (you really need the correct tool), and went back to the MOT centre this evening to get it retested. I thought that the CV boot looked in very good shape on the bench and it turns out that the secretary mistyped nearside inner instead of offside outer! I could have shot someone when the mechanic came back in and said "everything has been done except one thing. The CV Boot!" "I can see that you have changed the nearside inner but the offside outer still needs doing." I was not happy but he didn't put the re-test on the system so I still have a couple of days to change the boot and not pay for a whole new test. I have loosened the hub nut and taken the wheel off but it has started to rain quite hard and so I have abandoned all work for the evening. I will buy another boot tomorrow and, hopefully, have it fitted so that I can re-test it on Thurs eve.
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Ah mate that really blows! At least they were kind enough to not log the retest and now you know how to do one and have a fresh boot on the other side. Not much consolation, but a little bit nonetheless.
nick
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Well it has rained solidly all day and the ground was absolutely sodden, I love not being able to work in the garage! :angry: Still the hub nut came off a little easier this time and the offside outer CV boot has now been changed. I just need to take the car back to the test station tomorrow after work and it should be road legal! :laugh:
Hopefully there will be a very happy bunny on here tomorrow night!
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Fingers crossed for you mate.
nick
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If it's for track use I wouldn't go for T1-Rs - it doesn't matter how well worn they are, they'll cook up on the track, if you've got the suspension well set up and you're trying. T1-Rs would be a good road tyre and wet-weather track tyre.
The molded (not cut :tongue:) Toyo R888s will see you right on the track and you'll be surprised how well they'll last. To be honest, if you have to buy one set of tyres and it's not your only car, get a set of R888s.
If you've got calipers that bolt direct to the hub then I think you have 239mm front discs, not 256mm discs.
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I'm not too worried that it is the small discs as I was planning to change them anyway. I have just been offered the entire front set-up off a Mk3 Passat for very little, as long as I take it apart, so will, hopefully, get bigger brakes and a wide track set-up for very little. I will then clean up and sort the Passat stuff before fitting to the Golf. I will then need to shoe my new 15" wheels as the current 14's will not fit over anything bigger than the current 239mm discs.
As for tyres I am planning to have at least 2 sets of tyres, when I can find another cheap set of wheels, one for road and wet use and one for the dry track. I was thinking that T1-R's or the new Dunlop Direzza 03G's would be good for the road/wet set-up and save some 888's for the dry track. For the road wheels I would need the speedo to read true so would be looking for the OD to stay the same as the current 14" fitted. Not sure what this means for the size but will have to go and find a tyre comparison site and work it out. As for the 888's they would not need to be constrained by the same parameters so could fit any size, even going larger than 15" if that added any value. What is the consensus on optimum tyre size for a dry track? Also where do people buy their tyres from and do you get them sent to you and then fitted elsewhere?
Many thanks,
Jon
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VAG OEM 14" wheels will fit over 256mm brakes.
For track I'd go 195/50 R15 in either Toyo R888s or Kuhmo V70s - both highly rated. The Kuhmos are supposed to last a touch longer and have stiffer sidewalls, so will give a bit more feel. They are more expensive though.
I think you'll find the rolling radius of the 195/50 is the same as the OEM 14" spec tyres and wheels, as their section is more than 50%
195/50 R15 offers you probably the largest range of good quality and motorsport oriented tyres. There is no reason to deviate from it.
Camskill for tyres, or find a local friendly Toyo dealer who should be able to help you out.
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Anyone get the impression that I am a little happy? Yes it passed it's MOT so is now road legal. It fills with water every time it rains, the seat definitely needs changing as I cannot drive it properly as it is and I am seriously considering putting the heater back in as I need a de-mister at this time of year, but it is road legal!
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Wahey!
Deffo put the heater back in. Mine broke and on a wet trackday had to get my Dad who was passanger to keep wiping the screen for me, not good! All fixed now though as it was just the directional flap stuck to blow all the air into the footwells.
You interested in coming to the No-Rice meet next wednesday night in Guildford? It's a vw meet in the halfords/BK car park from 7pm. Always plenty of MKII's and I'll be there in mine.
Nick
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Thanks mate, I'll have to find a working matrix so that might be difficult! Has anyone put a mini heater into a golf? They are generally accepted as the smallest lightest easilly avaliable system by the kit car cognosci. I might well come and join you on Weds, depends on if i can get to strip this Passat some time over the weekend or if I have to use weds to do it. Anyone fancy giving me a hand?
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A heater matrix can be picked up for £30 new from GSF, they're a bit of a ball ache to fit though. Not hard, but just fiddly and annoying. I wouldn't bother a mini heater as the extra effort of getting it to blow on the screen correctly would out weight the slight weight benefit.
Where's the Passat located? I might be about tomorrow or sunday to give you a hand but I do need to try and get the wheel bearings done on my Corrado over the weekend.
Nick
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Passat is in Guilford, somewhere, I was looking at one of these, http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/electric-demist-heater--demst-309-p.asp, but if it is just a question of getting a new heater. The trouble is there are no controls and the pipes must have been blocked off somehow. It might be just as easy to blank off all of the holes in the bulkhead and fit 1 or 2 of these.
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Humm so the whole heater box had been removed from yours? If so that's a pain. I had to replace a broken one on a MKII once and got a complete set up from a scrappy car (all MKII's are the same for heating). Those heaters look OK though, but the MKII system in good working order is very good.
Not sure I can give you a hand with the passat as I've got a fair bit on and Mrs Horney is poorly and moaning I'm not looking after her properly, ha ha. So much for me enjoying my days off work!
Nick
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Yes they have stripped everything out completly! The upper dash is still there with most of the switches but the vents, heater box, controls and switches, matrix everything esle has been removed. I think that it will be a real pain to get the original to fit and will probably just wire in the electric ones. Water is getting into the cabin through the doors, obviously, and through a number of holes left in the bulkhead. I am going to start by sealing all of these and, hopefully, getting the interior watertight. I will then mask off the doors and fit some sort of doorcard. The next step will be to remove the seats and finish cleaning up the floors before fitting some sort of floor cavering to level off the floor. I will then have to look at what seats I refit. The list of jobs just keeps growing! At soem point I will simply book a trackday and go enjoy myself whatever condition the car is in!
If you could spare a bit of time on Sat I would appreciate it but understand that domestic issues always have to come first.
Jon
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Blimey in that case I think the electric ones will be much less hassle and probably cheaper even if you buy two.
As for your leaks I feel your pain, mine leaks like a sieve, sunroof is the worst culprit but that's coming out over the winter and being replaced with a sheet of ali and lots of tiger seal!
What are you stripping off the passat?
Nick
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I am going to take the entire front suspension and drivetrain. It will give me a wide track conversion and bigger brakes all in one.
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My brains not working well today and I'm trying to thing what bits you're actually removing.
Wishbones
Complete hubs and brakes
Driveshafts
Steering rack arm?
Not sure on the steering rack arms but the hardest thing of that lot will be the wishbones, they can be a pain (I have a damaged one I can't get off my corrado and it's had to stay where it is). Depending on your budget you can pick up a pair of new wishbones complete with bushes and ball joints for about £90.
Hubs, brakes and driveshafts should all come off in about an hour or two depeneding on how rusty some of the bolts are. I can well recomend a couple of cans of "Shock and Unlock" from halfords to help with stuck bolts.
Nick
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That looks about right.
Wishbones, hubs, brakes, steering track arms, driveshafts, and anything else i see when i am underneath! I will also have a look at the rear beam as if that fits and gives the same offset then I will try and take that at the same time.
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Got there about 15:30 hrs and left again just after 19:00 hrs, so not too bad. I now have the shocks and springs, hubs, callipers and discs, drive shafts, ARB and wishbones from the Passat. The hubs and callipers bolt together so I was a little disappointed as I hoped that I would get the carrier type from the conversion. The discs looked bigger than mine, as did the callipers, so I have just measured them as I put them in the garage and the discs are about 256mm in diameter so they are bigger. They do bolt directly onto the hub though but the Passat must have been a different design. I will post some pictures when I get into he garage to start cleaning the parts up. I also checked the Passat tyres and they were 195/65 14's so both of my wheel sets will fit.
A quick question whilst I think about it, I will be fitting braided hoses when I do the upgrade but will I need longer Passat ones or will the standard Golf items do?
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Well by the time I got back from my eldest’s Brownie Promise and got the youngest in bed it was too dark and too cold to get anything done on the car, working outside in the winter is not a clever Idea, so I decided to go into the garage and strip down one of the Passat hubs. The calliper nuts were very tight, obviously, but eventually gave in to a little bit of "persuasion†and separated from the hub. I then stripped the disc off and it is 256mm in diameter so I am very happy that I have my bigger brakes. The calliper looks bigger as well but I will have to wait until I get a pad from somewhere else to confirm this. I could not get the track rod off the hub nor, somewhat surprisingly, could I get the lower wishbone ball joint out! I was expecting the track rod arm to be tight but the ball joint should just tap out on the shaft! Still I will renew both when I rebuild the hub so I am not too worried.
My plan is to strip the entire suspension completely back to individual parts, clean and possibly powder coat, and then renew all the bearings and fit poly bushes where necessary before fitting to the Golf in one go. It makes sense to me to do it once properly and know that my suspension is completely new so that I can then go onto another part of the car safe in the knowledge that this will be ok for a long time. The wheel bearings, for example, seem good but are probably 133,000 miles old, the mileage on the Passat, so might fail at any time and although it is more expensive to change everything even if it doesn’t need it I think it is money well spent to prevent having to strip everything down later to renew something I could do easily now.
I did take some photos but need to upload them from my camera to the web sometime today. I will add them to this post as soon as I have done so. Does anyone know how expensive it is to powder coat small items such as hubs and wishbones? I think that I have a bead on someone who will shot blast small items reasonably but need an idea of the costs involved with powder coating. Everything I read says that it is the way to go as it provides a very tough and durable finish over painting or galvanising etc.
Anyone got any thoughts?
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It cost me about £100 to shot blast and powdercoat the complete rear subframe and hub assemblies of my Golf Syncro. Yours should be a bit cheaper, as it's less stuff.
Don't go thinking polybush is the best solution - there are stiffer OEM parts out there that will fit and probably do the job better.
Braided hoses - you should get late 16V hoses.
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Don't go thinking polybush is the best solution - there are stiffer OEM parts out there that will fit and probably do the job better.
are you on about your tt bushes again? do you have any data to back that up?
as far as im concerned the hierarchy goes rubber bushes<poly bushes<rose joints
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Its good to see her coming on well :D. By the way im the illusive jamie jon speaks about in much distress after my wripping out of the heater matrix :P hehe.. Good to see you doing well with it jon. Am already starting to miss it big time :( and thinking hmm may have to save the pennys and buy another mk2 lol !..
Whos along to no rice tonight ??? i shall be there if i can be arsed to clean my redicoulously dirty (Black ) :undecided: leon
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are you on about your tt bushes again? do you have any data to back that up?
I've got the data from my hands, when comparing the two.
That's better than the pub knowledge I suspect you're touting, organ-grinder-boy.
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Good to meet you tonight Jon and brill to see my old car in the hands of someone with so much enthusiasm.
As promised www.ybracing.co.uk if you navigate to Car Tuning and performance and then lower front strut braces it's on the first page and is £28 + postage.
Nick
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are you on about your tt bushes again? do you have any data to back that up?
I've got the data from my hands, when comparing the two.
That's better than the pub knowledge I suspect you're touting, organ-grinder-boy.
im sorry but a knowledge of material properties is hardly pub knowledge now is it, old boy. other end of the scale you might say. your test was flawed as you stitched the wishbones at the same time. put some poly bushes back in the wishbones and then tell me your rubber tt bushes are stiffer.
sorry to hijak your thread Jon
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Don't worry about the hijack, I am very interested. I will need to fit something when I replace the wishbones and Passat ARB so would love to see a resolution of this issue.
I will be using a G60 shock tower mount (or whatever it should be called) but will need to replace the wishbone bushes (four of), ARB bushes (two of) and the ARB drop link bushes (two of). I will also have to look at the ball joint and track rod arm joint to see if they need replacing. There will be new discs and pads as a matter of course and I will have to source braided brake lines and some dot 5 fluid to complete the brake overhaul. The drive shafts will get a thorough clean and inspection, I am hoping that the CV Joints will not need changing as that is extra expense, but will change both CV joint and boot if necessary.
I am intending to weld up the wishbones whilst they are off the car, it would seem common sense to do so whilst I have the opportunity, I take it that it is simply a case of seam welding along the join line where the metal has been folded into a box? This could be done before they are shot blasted and powder coated to ensure longevity of the finish. Is there anything else I should be loking at doing to the front whilst I have the opportunity?
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Nick,
It was great to see you as well and filled me with renewed enthusiasm to get on and actually get the car out onto a track. I have provisional agreement from the DCOS (Domestic Chief Of Staff) that the 2nd Dec is fine so will be booking the day off work and a day on the track. So the date is set and the car must be ready for then. We will see.....
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the passat wishbones are a bit different to the golf ones in that they are box sectioned so to weld them is a bit more involved and not as important as they are that much stiffer to start with.
i dont think its worth welding along the seams, to do it properly would mean cutting the seams off against the wishbone and seam welding the two halves of the wishbone back together
for bushes, the cheapest way to go is buy the bugpack kit of polyurethane bushes. its about £45-50 and you get every bush for the car apart from front top mounts, rear beam bushes, and front subframe bushes, (and rack bushes if you have pas, the kit includes non pas rack bushes)
have you bought the g60 top mounts yet? have a look at the mk3 vr6 top mount setup if not (search club gti) its a better design!
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I haven't bought any bushes yet. I will have a look at the bugpack kits, any advice on the best place to source them?, and will also look at the VR6 top mounts.
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im sorry but a knowledge of material properties is hardly pub knowledge now is it, old boy.
You've actually got nolidge? Nolidge of the material used in the TT bushes and nolidge about the polybush material? Good skills. Share then.
your test was flawed as you stitched the wishbones at the same time. put some poly bushes back in the wishbones and then tell me your rubber tt bushes are stiffer.
Actually it was both bushes in my hands outside of the wishbones, so it was a pretty fair comparison, nipper.
FWIW I've got Golf3 16v/VR6 top mounts in my Syncro. If you go that route you need spring caps and top mount caps IIRC, top mount caps at the very least - I have a pair lying around if you need them at any point.
i dont think its worth welding along the seams, to do it properly would mean cutting the seams off against the wishbone and seam welding the two halves of the wishbone back together
I know the Passat control arms are different to the Golf2 units, but I'm struggling to keep up with your logic on this one. On my arms I welded an inch piece, left about 1 1/2"-2" and then did another section - welding ALL round would be overkill and unnecessary in my layman's assessment. Where there are two flat bits of metal spot-welded together you're going to increase their strength by seam-welding them like that. Whether it would have the same effect on the Passat/G3 control arms, as it appears to have on the G2 units I don't know, but it feels to have made a difference to me, on my set up.
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I'm pretty sure German and Swedish sell the bug pack bushes. I believe to use the VR6 top mounts you need to run MKIII Golf springs and top plates but don't quote me on that.
nick
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dh, golf wishbones are different to passat wishbones. john is putting passat wishbones on his car. thats what im talking about. where you have welded your golf wishbones is the correct place.
re the bushes, ask yourself these questions
why can you buy polyurethane bushes for tt's?
are the standard bushes on an audi tt gonna be designed for A, road use (quiet, comfortable) or B, track use (noisey, bumpy)?
they will work better than standard mk2 bushes as they are designed for a heavier car, but its only the same as using the tt's spring rates or dampers. For a mk2 track car you still want stiffer than that.
you have found a nice upgrade for a mk2 owner who wants to keep a level of comfort though
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Nick,
There are two on that site, one that just ties the two rear mountings together (@£30) and one that ties all four points together (@£60). Any idea if the four point one gives twive the effect of the two point?
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Pics of the Hubs and discs - finally!
Hub Front:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/4013466735_f14d0dca61.jpg)
Hub rear
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2638/4014234546_96c1104f79.jpg)
Disc
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3500/4014237510_2a5d5882a9.jpg)
I am about to go back into the garage and will get out the wishbones so will post a photo later. Oh and as an aside how do you get the trackrod bush out? It does not want to move even with non-gentle persuasion!
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Well I had good intentions when I went into the garage but the mess just had to be cleared up before I could even see where I had put the bits of the Passat I had removed! Still at least I can move around in the garage now.
I did find one of the wishbones and gave it a quick clean with some degreaser and white spirit. It is in surprisingly good nick and could realistically go back on the car as it is! It does look like a pressed steel wishbone that has been tacked together to form a hollow section. I took a couple of photos, very badly with the phone (it didn't like the poor lighting and contrast) for any comments.
Wishbone
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/4015433388_fac019d4ce.jpg)
Side profile
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2435/4014671697_78213fbd4a.jpg)
Have I got the wrong parts or is this correct? Do I need to seam weld the entire length of the join? Any comments?
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yep they are the ones you want! i wouldnt bother welding them tbh, they arent as weak as the golf ones to start with
that bit of plastic can be chucked, theres a good 10 grammes there!
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John, welding won't damage the control arm and should still stiffen it up, which will sharpen the car's responses a touch. The construction is pretty much identical to the Golf2 units, but the form is a little different. As I don't know the dimesions of the rear bush, I can't comment whether TT bushes would fit or not.
Unlike the current bush, the TT unit is 100% solid, so again, will improve feel. Because it's bonded to the centre and the outer and then needs to be pushed in with a press provided it fits correctly it will suck up more slop than a polybush, as there's a small amount of absorbant material that's bonded inner and outer, rather than the poly material which has no bond either with the inner or outer component. I've driven both, albeit in the second instance after I stitched the seams on the control arm, so actually have some practical experience here, like that counts for much in a discussion with Mark. :grin:
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it does, but as said previously, your test was flawed and should be discounted, therefore you have no practical experience
the real test is to remove the tt bushes and refit the poly bushes, then see what the difference is
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(http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/8224/20042985.jpg)
if you want to weld them i would do it like in the 2nd pic, and cut off the spot welds
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Not sure if I will weld them, depends on how the time pans out I guess. I have stripped both of the hubs back, I cannot get either ball joint out of either side, so they are done as far as i can so will be getting someone to see to them. Is it worth changing the wheels bearings? GSF sell a front kit for about £15 so not expensive to do and I am hoping not to have to take all this lot off any time soon.
The same goes for the driveshafts and CV joints. I have stripped down the shorter side and definitely need to replace the outer boot, it was ripped and totally unusable, will probably have to replace the inner as well. Can I reuse the boots I fitted to the Golf, they have done less than 20 miles so should be good? Also I have stripped and cleaned the CV Joint itself. The old grease was quite hard and viscous but the cleaned joints look ok to me. The boots are about £40 per side but the joints themselves are £40 each so much more expensive if I have to replace all of them. What is the consensus, is it worth changing everything or can I reuse the joints and boots I have just bought and just buy new the two boots needed?
Many thanks,
Jon
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You can certainly re-use the boots, just be careful when you cut the ties off you don't cut the boot as well.
If the joints are free of play then just packing with fresh grease and popping the boots on will be fine.
Do the wheel bearings while you have it all off just to be thorough.
Nick
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Just found these on flea-bay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-GOLF-MK2-1-8GTi-1-8-AUTO-CV-JOINT-NEW-84-93_W0QQitemZ130334397436QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1e588913fc
Is this too cheap to be true and therefore cr@p or just really good value?
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To be honest I don't know however I to have considered buying one from this ebay store for my track car and I think Mark was musing trying one to see what they're like.
Not much help I guess!
nick
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i have 2 on the rado. cant really comment on quality, they have only been on it a month! good so far though
try a blowtorch on the rod ends, they can be a bastard to remove though
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A blowtorch is unlikely to help as it's simply not hot enough to make a significant difference, although you could try doing that then putting the end of the end (as it were) into cold water - it might suck enough heat out of the end to crack the joint.
Really you want oxy-acetylene on it, a BIG vice and a BIG hammer.
Personally I wouldn't bother re-using the boots. With the extra heat and stress on them from running on a track they're likely to fail pretty quickly. Get new boots and a pair of CV boot pliers from GSF for £15 and do the job properly. Having changed boots in the dark, in Nurburg on DannyP's car after old ones failed fast it's not a shortcut I'd recommend to anyone with a track car.
it does, but as said previously, your test was flawed and should be discounted, therefore you have no practical experience
the real test is to remove the tt bushes and refit the poly bushes, then see what the difference is
I've had the bushes side by side and checked them over in my very own hands. However, I have to agree with Mark, at the age of 34 I do have no practical experience.
Mark, although it clearly has no impact on your experience and understanding of things, remind the audience of your age?
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27. what bearing does that have on the argument? none?
do the test properly then come back on here and shout about how good they are.
' oh look my wishbone is stiffer after putting rubber bushes in it, it must be the rubber bush making it stiffer, not the stitch welding that i did at the same time '
retard
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Have you seen, held or checked over the bushes I'm talking about?
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Urrrgggghhhhh you two just need to agree to disagree on this one, I'm getting bored of it now.
May I suggest that stitch welding the wishbones is good. Poly Bushes are good and TT rear bushes are also good. As to which is ultimately the best bush is a matter of user based opinion at this time.
At the end of the day Jon just wants help getting his car ready and you two bickering isn't really helping. Either option of bush will give him great handling and we can argue the finer points of which bush is better in an alternative thread.
Now play nicely or I'll have to beat both of you round a circuit and make you cry :wink: which give me no satisfaction as I consider you both good friends and would hate to have make you feel small by being beaten by a 2wd 8v on K-Jet :grin:
Nick
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Enjoy :wink:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?board=7.0
Nick
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Corrado seats that may be of interest.
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=132425.0;topicseen
Nick
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Thanks nick, I'll have a look at those seats. I have been offered the loan of a race seat for the first track day. Oh and the DCOS has agreed to me booking 02 Dec so that will be cast in stone later today. For those interested 02 Dec at Bedford Autodrome, novices only day, come and watch me crawling round a track for the first time! ;) As for the great bush debate I will go with the easiest option which, I suspect, will be to buy a complete set of poly ones. This way I will get everything I need in one hit and can play at a later date. I will not be welding the wishbone, at this time, I don’t need additional jobs there are enough as it is!
This weekend I completely stripped the hubs down, less the wheel bearings, and everything is now in it’s component parts in the garage. I am starting on the clean-up and will then paint and place on one side for the big re-fit. A friend has told me that if you get some Hammerite spray paint and heat it in a saucepan of hot water for a bit before you spray you get excellent adhesion. I will be trying this, when the DCOS is out, as an alternative to powdercoat as it is significantly cheaper. If it doesn’t work out I will have to go the whole hog but it should last for a bit. I was also discussing harnesses and recon that if I get a brace-bar made that fits between the rear inertia reel mounts and is the braced forwards from the middle to the floor mounts behind the front inertia reel mounts that is would be solid enough and at the correct height. Not the best description I know but if you have a look it will make sense, I will try and get a photo to show later. That would negate the need to weld to the shell and cost significantly less that a half cage. Any thoughts? More as it happens,
Jon
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In order to keep me on track, pun intended, and assist in my planning I thought that I would creat a list of jobs that need doing. I will then be able to tick them off as they are completed and keep an eye on where I am. It also gives everyone else a chance to comment on my progress and point out anything that I have forgotten!
So jobs that need to be done:
Clean Wishbones 19/10/09
Paint wishbones
Fit new ball joints
Fit new bushes
Initial clean of Hubs 19/10/09
Shot blast hubs
Paint hubs
Fit new wheel bearings
Strip, clean and inspect Driveshafts and CV joints
Fit new CV joints
Re-assemble driveshafts and fit new boots
Clean and inspect ARB
Clean calliper carriers - 19/10/09
Paint calliper carriers
Clean and inspect Callipers - 19/10/09
Shot blast callipers
Service, if necessary
Paint callipers
Assemble hubs complete
Clean track rod ends - New track ends ordered
Paint track rod ends - New track rod ends ordered
Fit new track rod end joints
Strip front suspension off the Golf
Re-fit Passat suspension to Golf
Fit braided brake hoses
Renew brake fluid and bleed system
Full 4-wheel alignment and set-up
Check all engine hoses and renew as necessary
Flush radiator and refill with coolant – at increased strength
Change oil filter
Renew oil
Tune engine (Rub you may get a call here! ;))
Fit new wing mirrors, current ones fold up at any speed!
Complete plastic door cards and fit
Fill with Super
Enjoy!
Optional jobs – times money permitting:
Fit new front seats – see above post for options
Design and manufacture harness bar and fit
Fit harnesses
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I thought that I would put up a list of parts I think I need and my planned supplier. If anyone has a better idea for a bit or knows of a better place to buy then please let me know.
Things I need to buy:
Ball joints - GSF
Front suspension bush set poly (?) – GSF?
Track rod joints - GSF
Wheel bearings - GSF
CV Joints complete - will give E-bay a chance (but am keeping the old ones clean and safe just in case)
256mm Discs - ?
Mintex 1155 Pads (the most recommended on here) - ?
Braded brake lines - ?
Track rod joints - GSF
G60 front strut top mounts - GSF
Optional purchases:
Harness bar – Purpose made
Seat mountings - ?
Harnesses - ?
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For discs I recommend "Brembo Max" from GSF, I think they do the braided flexi lines as well. The mintex pads can be got from www.motorsportworld.co.uk for a very good price and very speedy delivery. Best to order via phone so you get the right pads for your calipers.
NIck
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http://www.vwspares.co.uk/
this site is good for bits
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Nice site!
Just been pricing up a few bits against GSF and they come out cheaper even with free delivery from GSF. The only problem I can forsee is that I cannot go into the shop and actually physically compare the bits to ensure that I get the correct items.
As an example I costed:
VW Spares:
2 x wheel bearing kits, 2 x Ball joint kits, 2 x G60 strut mounts, 2 x wishbone bolt kits, 4 x lower shock nuts and bolts and 2 tie rod ends (LH & RH) and with delivery and VAT it came to £96.43.
GSF:
2 x wheel bearing kits, 2 x ball joint kits, 2 x G60 strut mounts and 2 x tie rod ends and the total was £93.73 with VAT and free delivery.
So with out the additional bolts it is only £2.70 cheaper and I cannot save more by going and collecting myself! I could not see any non-OEM discs, braided brake lines or polybushes though. Does anyone know how difficult is it to exchange parts if they are not correct?
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they have always been spot on when ive ordered bits, so cant comment on returns.
oem discs will be good enough, its the pads that make the real difference
hold up on buying the goodridge hoses, i think i have a full set spare that ill sell if you want!
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they have always been spot on when ive ordered bits, so cant comment on returns.
oem discs will be good enough, its the pads that make the real difference
hold up on buying the goodridge hoses, i think i have a full set spare that ill sell if you want!
Roger that, I'll place an order later then. Is there anyhting that I have missed from my list you can think of? Reading other forums they seem to think that you need the track rods themselves not just the ends, is this the case? I cannot seee VW using different rod but maybe. As for the hoses I would definately be interested.
Jon
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ok ill have a dig through my bits and let you know
did you get the track rods off the passat? they will be fine with new rod ends unless they are bent!
your list look good for the front plus the poly bushes. its worth getting the front subframe bushes in poly as well, but you will have to get them seperately from powerflex. it wont really stiffen the chassis much, but stops the engine moving as much as the front engine mount is bolted to the subframe
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NO, I didn't get the track rods themselves. I only got the ends. Do I need the track rods and if so do I also need to buy new steering rack gaiters etc to fit?
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ah, yeah they are longer on the passat setup! euro car parts do them but they arent cheap, £30 each i remember. you can reuse the gaiters though
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It's just a threaded bar though, isn't it? How is that £30 each side?
Just looked on the VW Spares site and the tie rods complete with ends for a Mk3 are £17.45 + VAT each. The Passat ones are not listed but you can do the wide track conversion with Mk3 parts, I believe, so they should fit, shouldn't they?
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It's a little more complicated than a bit of threaded bar.....
Not much more complicated, I'll grant you, but I wouldn't want to replace my track rod ends with some M12 threaded bar!
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I guess! ;) Still does anyone know if I can use the Mk3 item?
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WOW!!! Just priced up the poly bushes fromt he Polybush site £153.86 for the front suspension and then an additional £36.56 for the sub-frame mounts and a further £25.18 of you want to do the steering rack. That's £215.60 to fully poly bush the front. Any one know if there is a cheaper option or anywhere that does a "kit" or "pack" option?
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Pretty sure the GSF Bug Pack is about £60 although that doesn't include the rack or subframe bushes.
nick
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just a pointer if you buy from gsf; if you go and collect you can get your 10% club gti discount ;)
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just a pointer if you buy from gsf; if you go and collect you can get your 10% club gti discount ;)
Depends. My local one (Reading) has really clamped down on this and will not give discount without an in date membership card or trade card. Jon is forces though so he should be able to get a discount from showing his forces card. I know this certainly works in Halfords.
nick
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just a pointer if you buy from gsf; if you go and collect you can get your 10% club gti discount ;)
Depends. My local one (Reading) has really clamped down on this and will not give discount without an in date membership card or trade card. Jon is forces though so he should be able to get a discount from showing his forces card. I know this certainly works in Halfords.
nick
Really! I didn't know that. Would have saved me a fair bit on tools recently.
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I thought that I would put up a list of parts I think I need and my planned supplier. If anyone has a better idea for a bit or knows of a better place to buy then please let me know.
Things I need to buy:
Ball joints - VW Spares
Front suspension bush set poly (?) – GSF?
Track rod joints - VW Spares
Wheel bearings - VW Spares
CV Joints complete - will give E-bay a chance (but am keeping the old ones clean and safe just in case)
256mm Discs - ?
Mintex 1155 Pads (the most recommended on here) - ?
Braded brake lines - ?
Track rods - VW Spares
G60 front strut top mounts - VW Spares
Strut nut & bolts - VW Spares
Wishbone bolts - VW Spares
Optional purchases:
Harness bar – Purpose made
Seat mountings - ?
Harnesses - ?
Current total £121.73
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In order to keep me on track, pun intended, and assist in my planning I thought that I would creat a list of jobs that need doing. I will then be able to tick them off as they are completed and keep an eye on where I am. It also gives everyone else a chance to comment on my progress and point out anything that I have forgotten!
So jobs that need to be done:
Clean Wishbones 19/10/09
Paint wishbones
Fit new ball joints
Fit new bushes
Initial clean of Hubs 19/10/09
Shot blast hubs
Paint hubs
Fit new wheel bearings
Strip, clean and inspect Driveshafts and CV joints
Fit new CV joints
Re-assemble driveshafts and fit new boots
Clean and inspect ARB
Clean calliper carriers - 19/10/09
Paint calliper carriers
Clean and inspect Callipers - 19/10/09
Shot blast callipers
Service, if necessary
Paint callipers
Assemble hubs complete
Clean track rod ends - New track ends ordered
Paint track rod ends - New track rod ends ordered
Fit new track rod end joints
Strip front suspension off the Golf
Re-fit Passat suspension to Golf
Fit braided brake hoses
Renew brake fluid and bleed system
Full 4-wheel alignment and set-up
Check all engine hoses and renew as necessary
Flush radiator and refill with coolant – at increased strength
Change oil filter
Renew oil
Tune engine (Rub you may get a call here! ;))
Fit new wing mirrors, current ones fold up at any speed!
Complete plastic door cards and fit
Fill with Super
Enjoy!
Optional jobs – times money permitting:
Fit new front seats – see above post for options
Design and manufacture harness bar and fit
Fit harnesses
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I thought that I would put up a list of parts I think I need and my planned supplier. If anyone has a better idea for a bit or knows of a better place to buy then please let me know.
Things I need to buy:
Ball joints - VW Spares
Front suspension bush set poly (?) – GSF?
Track rod joints - VW Spares
Wheel bearings - VW Spares
CV Joints complete - E Bay (but am keeping the old ones clean and safe just in case)
256mm Discs - ?
Mintex 1155 Pads (the most recommended on here) - ?
Braded brake lines - ?
Track rods - VW Spares
G60 front strut top mounts - VW Spares
Strut nut & bolts - VW Spares
Wishbone bolts - VW Spares
Calliper service kit - Big Red
Lower front strut Brace (4 point) - OMP
Track day Helmet - OMP
Optional purchases:
Harness bar – Purpose made
Seat mountings - ?
Harnesses - ?
Current total £121.73 (VW Spares)
Current Total £365.73
VW Spares - £121.73
OMP - £146.30
E-bay - £77.95
Big Red - £19.75
All prices include VAT & postage
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Well this will be my last update for a little bit as I have to go on holiday for a week with the family tomorrow and then am away for a four day course, courtesy of work!
I have received a couple of parcels recently, it has been like Christmas in my garage, including the suspension sent by oldmiller8, many thanks, the first lot of parts from VWSpares and this morning 4 CV Joints complete with boots. Lots of nice shiny new stuff to go on the car! I have also cleaned up all of the bits I took off the Passat and they have been inspected and will be serviced, painted and rebuilt when I get back into the garage.
Last night I finally managed to get the suspension changed over and packaged up my old stuff and sent back to oldmiller8. Getting the springs and dampers off the car was easy, getting the strut tops and spring plates off the dampers was very, very hard! I don’t know how anyone else has managed to get that bl00dy collar off but I struggled big time. It was not until I went round to a mate’s house and we manufactured a special tool from some 14mm Internal Diameter steel bar that we actually succeeded. I now have a new tool but the effort was exceptional for what should be a simple job. The other big downer was that the rear spring plates were very tatty. One had actually rusted all the way through and the spring was pushing put of the top! We turned the springplate round when we refitted but I have had to order new anyway. Failure of any suspension part out on a track is not an option I want, especially if I know about it in advance. I have now ordered now springplates, boots and mountings for the rear so they will go on once they arrive.
I still need to sort out seating as I cannot find any Corrado seats in the vicinity but I may have a new cunning plan! The mate I saw last night races and is currently building a MX5 car and has placed a very large order with a custom cage manufacturer. He has kindly offered to ask for a 2m length of FIA approved roll cage bar that we will cut to length and tack onto some 8mm steel plate to make a harness bar that sits between the rear seatbelt inertial reel mounting points behind the rear turret tops. We will then locate captive nuts for the harnesses and the whole thing will then be welded up by them to ensure that it is solid. For the front mounts we will drill though the floor and gearbox tunnel and then locate steel spreader plates with captive nuts on the outside to allow harness mountings to be fitted. This meets with current FIA regulations so I am happy that it will be fine for track days. He has a set of 2†harnesses that I can borrow, for as long as needed, and also has a seat I can borrow. We were looking at how we could mount this and scoped out a number of options. Because I want to retain the ability to have different people drive the car the seat needs to be on runners but he has a set of MX5 runners that are very low and flat so that mounting plates for bucket seats bolt straight to the top. These would be fitted to the floor in the same manner as the harnesses using steel spreader plates. This means that I could run the current passenger bucket and borrow his nice drivers one in time for my first track day, hopefully! That has been booked for Brands Hatch on the 28th of next month so time is now officially against me! Still life wouldn’t be fun without a challenge or two!
More as I get it,
Jon
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I thought that I would put up a list of parts I think I need and my planned supplier. If anyone has a better idea for a bit or knows of a better place to buy then please let me know.
Things I need to buy:
Ball joints - VW Spares
Front suspension bush set poly (?) – GSF?
Track rod joints - VW Spares
Wheel bearings - VW Spares
CV Joints complete - E Bay (but am keeping the old ones clean and safe just in case)
256mm Discs - ?
Mintex 1155 Pads (the most recommended on here) - ?
Braded brake lines - ?
Track rods - VW Spares
G60 front strut top mounts - VW Spares
Strut nut & bolts - VW Spares
Wishbone bolts - VW Spares
Calliper service kit - Big Red
Lower front strut Brace (4 point) - OMP
Track day Helmet - OMP
Rear strut mounts - VW Spares
Rear bump stops - VW Spares
Rear Spring Plates - VW Spares
Optional purchases:
Harness bar – Purpose made
Seat mountings - ?
Harnesses - ?
Current total £121.73 (VW Spares)
Current Total £403.34
VW Spares - £159.34
OMP - £146.30
E-bay - £77.95
Big Red - £19.75
All prices include VAT & postage
I am still looking for the best place for polybushes, I cannot find any refernce to the "bugpacks" at GSF or anywhere that do packs at all.
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Jon, I maybe popping into GSF today. If I do I'll ask about the poly bush packs.
Nick
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Jon, I maybe popping into GSF today. If I do I'll ask about the poly bush packs.
Nick
Nick,
You are a star, many thanks,
Jon
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I ended up going to Euro Car Parts instead as I rang them first and they had the part I needed in stock.
I think your best bet with GSF is to just give your local branch a call (I think Reading might be your closest) and see what they say. Their website is rubbish unless you know part numbers but generally the staff on the phone will know exactly what you're after.
nick
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Never mind mate, my nearest store is the Aldershot one as it is just up the dual carridgway. I will try and give them a ring when I get back from Norfolk. I need a CV Boot Clip tool so will have to call in before I can put the driveshafts back together anyway.
The last bits I need to buy are the bushes and brake discs and pads, I think....
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Bloody hell, I disappear for two weeks and end up buried on page 2! Good to see that discussion is going strong on here.
So I have had a week away with the family and then a week in Shrivenham on a course, Through Life Capability Management Practitioners Course (and yes it was as boring as it sounds), and this weekend was a bit of a washout as it was Remembrance Sunday so I had lots to do. Still I have managed to take the car round to my mate’s house and it is now inside his comfy garage and we have started serious work.
The front seats are both out and I have ground off the front mounting on the driver’s side. We have, utilising a spare seat he had lying around, positioned the harness bolt holes and I will purchase the eye bolts today so that we can drill and fix these. I will then clean up the floor and paint it to complete the work already started. I have found a new driver’s seat, all being well, and that will be mounted on runners bolted to the floor. We are going to manufacture new flat plate mounts from strip ali, they will run from the flat floor to a wedge shaped spacer on the box section under the old front mounting, these will provide a secure flat surface to mount the runners with the side mounts bolted to these. I need the runners as several people may well drive the car and one of these is likely to be my wife. As she is a little less than 5 feet tall, and I am a bit over 6 you can see the need for runners! We have also scoped the requirement for two sets of harness bolts to account for the seat forward or the seat back. The level of adjustment required means that I would have to find extra long lap and crutch belts which harder than simply drilling and fixing two sets of eye bolts and unclipping the harnesses and re-attaching when required. For the shoulder harnesses I am getting a new bar made that will run between the rear inertia reel bolt holes behind the rear strut brace. If this is not ready by the end of the month then I will have to utilise the rear bolt holes in the floor, not ideal I know but it may be necessary on this occasion.
I will then start to look at the passenger side and then move forwards to the engine bay. Still lots to do but I can see the light at the end of this particular tunnel; I am just a little suspicious that it might be the oncoming train! ;)
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In order to keep me on track, pun intended, and assist in my planning I thought that I would creat a list of jobs that need doing. I will then be able to tick them off as they are completed and keep an eye on where I am. It also gives everyone else a chance to comment on my progress and point out anything that I have forgotten!
So jobs that need to be done:
Clean calliper carriers - 19/10/09
Paint calliper carriers
Clean and inspect Callipers - 19/10/09
Shot blast callipers
Service, if necessary
Paint callipers
Fit braided brake hoses
Renew brake fluid and bleed system
Full 4-wheel alignment and set-up
Check all engine hoses and renew as necessary
Flush radiator and refill with coolant – at increased strength
Change oil filter
Renew oil
Tune engine (Rub you may get a call here! ;))
Fit new wing mirrors, current ones fold up at any speed!
Complete plastic door cards and fit
Finish stripping down drivers side footwells
Paint drivers side footwell
Finish stripping down passengers side footwell
Paint passengers side footwell
Strip and replace rear suspension spring plates and bushes - 09/11/09
Fill with Super
Enjoy!
Optional jobs – times money permitting:
Clean Wishbones 19/10/09
Paint wishbones
Fit new ball joints
Fit new bushes
Initial clean of Hubs 19/10/09
Shot blast hubs
Paint hubs
Fit new wheel bearings
Strip, clean and inspect Driveshafts and CV joints
Fit new CV joints
Re-assemble driveshafts and fit new boots
Clean and inspect ARB
Assemble hubs complete
Clean track rod ends - New track ends ordered
Paint track rod ends - New track rod ends ordered
Fit new track rod end joints
Strip front suspension off the Golf
Re-fit Passat suspension to Golf
Fit new front seats – see above post for options
Design and manufacture harness bar and fit
Fit harnesses
Well I have altered my list of jobs, time as ever gets in the way, but am progressing. I managed to strip off the rear suspension, again, and replaced the top spring mounts, bump stops and all bushes/rubbers and re-assembled. I also completly stripped out the drivers side front and started to dig down to clean up. I cut off the runners and mountings for the OEM seat, I have a bucket seat avaliable, and ground it all back to flat metal. I discovered a littel surface rust in a couple of places that was sanded back and will be treated with krust before a top coat is applied. The major issue was arround a metal/rubber grommet that is fitted in the floor under the drivers left but cheek which had rusted and was starting to corrode the floor. I have stripped the grommet out and will cut a circular plate from a bit of ali and rivet it over the hole once it is treated and painted which should prevent this from happening again. We agreed all of the mounting points for the 6 point harnesses and I will drill them out and fit the spacers once the seat arrives and we can do a final trial fit. All in all it is moving forwards, a bit slowly, but it is moving.
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Time for an update:
It feels like I have achieved nothing on the car for ages but it has been a really sh!tty time. My best mate went to the doctors felling a bit unwell and a week later is suffering from an advanced pancreatic cancer with secondary’s in his liver and probably elsewhere. I have spent a bit of time round at his; he has no family left after his mum died, from cancer, earlier this year. Not really helping me to actually get work done. On the more positive side he is supposed to be sharing track time on my first day out this month and has said that he thinks he will be fit to drive, so the car has to be ready.
Jobs completed include replacing the wing mirrors, they no longer fold back into the door as soon as you go over 5 miles an hour! The doors have been cleaned out internally and I have made up new plastic liners. I have also made door cards out of some very thin and light fibreboard style material that I will fit over the top to stop any body part ingress and also to hide the bare metal. The passenger side floor has been totally cleaned and rubbed down, any rust treated with krust, and is ready for a cost of paint. The drivers side is half complete, I need to finish the part ahead of the cross brace, but here I have cut out the seat mounts and ground them back to the shell. The new seat is going to be mounted to the floor and so I didn’t need the runners and they weigh! The wiring loom has been re-zip tied together and tucked neatly out of the way. (I will strip out all of the unnecessary wiring at some point, but not before the end of the week!) I have planned all of the mounting points for the 6-point harnesses I am borrowing and FIA eye bolts and backing plates are on route as I type. The drivers side seat is on order and should be delivered next week for final fitting.
I have bought a full service kit, but noticed that the water pump has a lot of evidence of leaks around it so will have to buy a new one and fit that when I flush and service the cooling system. I will fit new belts and a new thermostat at the same time, probably overkill but cheap and easily done all together. The Passat callipers and carriers have been cleaned and I have a service kit ready to refurbish them. I will buy new disks and mintex 1155 pads and they can be fitted when I renew the brake fluid.
Overall it feels like I am getting nowhere but having typed this I guess a lot of the preparation is done and the finishing will take less time than I think. I have booked all next week off work so I can dedicate myself to the car. I will have to take kids to school and help out a bit but mostly I will be in the garage.
Roll on next week…….
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Sad news on your friend Jon but good that you'll be going out on track together. I do my days with my Dad and it's a great experience sharing the driving with someone else.
Sounds like the car is coming along well, look froward to pics of it all ready for action and the report on it's first day out.
nick
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Just incase you don't know, there is already a larger master cylinder fitted (i did it just before i sold the car to Nick, 2 years ago?)
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Mew, thanks that saves me a job.
I finished the doors yesterday. They now have new mirrors, plastic liners and lightweight door cards.
A question to the GolfGTi cognoscenti;
Exactly what should I be looking to do to the engine? On a long run, before I striped out the seat and belts, the oil light was flickering on over about 2500 revs, but the temp didn't rise over 106 on the motorway, I checked the oil level and it is good. The water temp light also comes on occasionally but there is no signs of overheating or low coolant levels. The HT leads and spark plugs look very new, no dirt or oil at all, and the rest looks as I would expect for a 170k engine. The cambelt is not new but not worn or showing signs of distending or stretching but the alternator belt has frayed ever so slightly. There is signs of coolant leaking from the water pump but it is not excessive, a couple of small drops on the floor over a week, and the level stays good in the expension tank.
I have a new oil filter, some oil, a fuel filter, and will be changing the brake fluid when I fit the Passat callipers, spacers and bigger discs. I am happy to get a new water pump, cambelt, thermostat and anything else I need but only have next week to get everything ready for a track day on Sat.
All advice welcome,
Jon
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I'd change the cambelt and tensioner for piece of mind, the mileage on the clocks isn't right as I changed them and I'm sure been changed them when he had it as well while trying to flush out the flashing oil light issue.
On that subject I had it pressure checked and the oil pressure came back as spot on factory spec so I just ignored the flashing light as I tried swapping sensors and the clocks and it still did it. Probably best to pick up a pressure gauge for the dash for real time readings on track which is what I'm doing.
Water light is a common fault. They flash for overheating and level, normally they get a bit dodgy with age and start flashing when the level and temp is fine.
Nick
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Well it's the day before Brands Hatch and the car is, very nearly, ready! I have just added the coolent flusha d the engine is colling down so that I can flush that through and we are done! The seats are in, harnesses in, engine serviced, front brakes converted to late 16v ones, rears completly new (including calipers (i'll tell you later)), new springs and struts (to me anyway) fitted, engine fully serviced (but not tuned) and I'm ready to go!
Wish me luck......
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Good luck mate, you'll have a ball. Look forward to hearing all about it upon your return.
Nick
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have fun mate, i wish i was out there as well
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Well I had a great day, I am now officially hooked and looking to do a bit more work on the car and get back out as soon as possible!
The old girl worked really well for the entire day and I have no complaints. I did have a brake bias issue and one with a bit of oil surge, see my post on the Track Days and Motorsport forum, but other than that it was perfect. The day started off a bit damp but dried out very quickly. Some plonker decided that the perfect car to take round in the afternoon was a Dodge Ram and, surprise surprise, it broke during the first session of the afternoon. It was so heavy that they could not recover it and so the afternoon went to an “open pit lane†and I managed to get at least 30 mins extra time as lots of people had gone home and the car was so reliable I just came in every 20 / 30 mins to check the fluids and tyres and went straight back out again. Very tired by the end, but happy, oh so happy!
Now thinking about what to do to improve the car before I next go out. The budget is pretty much blown but I do have 8 Toyos sitting in the garage, just couldn’t resist at £28 a pop, and discovered that the rims I had bought were 4 x 100 but the spigot was a fraction to large so I could not use them, trust e-bay to get that wrong! I will have to investigate new spigots, or just machine a new one from some ali plate. I will continue to strip out the sound deadening material from the front as and when I get the time and will have to drop the rear beam, refurbish and fit poly bushes. The front will get the wide track fitted, I have all of the parts now, and will be poly bushed when I put it back together. Other than that I am thinking that saving for a set of dampers that I know are good should be the next thing? I will investigate making an adjustable ARB, I have a spare in the garage to alter, but everything else seems to cost a lot! I investigated an LSD but the only one I can find is the Quaife unit and that is over £500, glass or carbon bonnet and boot are expensive, if you can finds them, and I could not find a plexi kit for the windows. Someone suggested just making a set from sheet, it’s not expensive, so I may have a got at that. The glass looks flat and that makes it quite simple, in theory.
Overall a very good day and I have some photos to sort and will post as soon as I can.
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Glad you had a great time and the old girl did you proud. It's a slippery slope from now on!
Look forward to the pics :cool:
Nick
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My polycarb windows were from: http://acwmotorsportplastics.co.uk/default.aspx
HTH
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Over on ed38:
http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=245086
As above polycarb windows(not cheap perspex ) with all seals supplied from a 2dr golf gti, fitted but never used. They include Rear window, Both Rear Windows, both front window quarters and passenger side window, i will also supply the drivers side glass window with the manual regulator, i paid a lot of money once upon a time but now surplus to requirements. If interested best to contact me on 07974889901
They owe me �200ono
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/tech-to-be/FILE0332.jpg)
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/tech-to-be/FILE0331.jpg)
Bump i need the space now so im giving them away at £70 collected anytime this week
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Errr, aren't polycarb windows supposed to be transparent?
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they probably are under the PROTECTIVE FILM :rolleyes:
that set is missing the drivers window for some bizarre reason :huh:
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never used => they still have the white sticky sheet over them to stop them being scratched in transit / during fitting.
Those are for an early small window car with 1/4 lights.
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never used => they still have the white sticky sheet over them to stop them being scratched in transit / during fitting.
Sorry, my windows had film with the brand name on them, as most polycarb does - it looks like those are opaque, but if they haven't been used then maybe it is film.
that set is missing the drivers window for some bizarre reason
It's not at all bizarre. Having a glass driver side front window means you can wind it down. Useful for stuff like 'ring tickets/Péage and other operations where winding down the window is useful.
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Over on ed38:
http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=245086
As above polycarb windows(not cheap perspex ) with all seals supplied from a 2dr golf gti, fitted but never used. They include Rear window, Both Rear Windows, both front window quarters and passenger side window, i will also supply the drivers side glass window with the manual regulator, i paid a lot of money once upon a time but now surplus to requirements. If interested best to contact me on 07974889901
They owe me �200ono
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/tech-to-be/FILE0332.jpg)
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/tech-to-be/FILE0331.jpg)
Bump i need the space now so im giving them away at £70 collected anytime this week
Mew,
Thanks for that, just registered and he ahs dropped the price to £70 so have texted him to see if they are still avaliable. This is addictive isn't it!
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Errr, aren't polycarb windows supposed to be transparent?
I can't see the photos at work. What's the problem?
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never used => they still have the white sticky sheet over them to stop them being scratched in transit / during fitting.
Those are for an early small window car with 1/4 lights.
Ah! Reference my last, cancel. The fronts won't fit my car, but the rest will and that should still save me quite a bit of weight.
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never used => they still have the white sticky sheet over them to stop them being scratched in transit / during fitting.
Sorry, my windows had film with the brand name on them, as most polycarb does - it looks like those are opaque, but if they haven't been used then maybe it is film.
that set is missing the drivers window for some bizarre reason
It's not at all bizarre. Having a glass driver side front window means you can wind it down. Useful for stuff like 'ring tickets/Péage and other operations where winding down the window is useful.
its bizarre for a track car, but that advert is from e38 so he prbably thought they looked good or something. i will be using a perspex one and live with the scratches, rather that than the added weight!
my passenger door will be the same, on summer days you do need both windows open without a sunroof
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never used => they still have the white sticky sheet over them to stop them being scratched in transit / during fitting.
Sorry, my windows had film with the brand name on them, as most polycarb does - it looks like those are opaque, but if they haven't been used then maybe it is film.
that set is missing the drivers window for some bizarre reason
It's not at all bizarre. Having a glass driver side front window means you can wind it down. Useful for stuff like 'ring tickets/Péage and other operations where winding down the window is useful.
its bizarre for a track car, but that advert is from e38 so he prbably thought they looked good or something. i will be using a perspex one and live with the scratches, rather that than the added weight!
my passenger door will be the same, on summer days you do need both windows open without a sunroof
I need the drivers side to open at the least. It still has to act as a second car for me on occasions. As for the opening in Summer I'm not sure but i needed them to last week as misting could have become an issue.
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If you buy that set Jon I'll have the front set off you as I have 1/4 light windows.
Nick
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If you buy that set Jon I'll have the front set off you as I have 1/4 light windows.
Nick
Roger that, still awaiting a responce.
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So funds, time and garage space are all a bit limited at the moment and the “better half†tells me that I need to buy her a house, so all in all not a lot has happened to the 8v. I have bought a full set of poly bushes, sorted the wide track conversion bits (ready to fit), got hold of a full set of poly windows (Nick you need to collect at some point) and got a new set of wheels and tyres.
So my wandering mind has started to think about the other aspect of the car – engine. Now funds will not allow me to go the whole hog and do a complete engine transfer (1.8t or v6) so I was thinking about a progressive approach. Doing a little research, a little knowledge being a dangerous thing, and have come up with a great idea! Well I think that it is a great idea so I am putting it to you all to find out the reality. The “best†engine that was originally fitted to the Mk2 was the G60 so why not emulate this? The plan would be to source a ported, flowed and big valves 8v head first. That could be mated to my 1.8 bottom end and would give a hike in power and better torque curve. Phase One complete. In Phase Two I would then change the bottom end to a Mk3 2l bottom end. This would increase the displacement and thus increase the power. Phase Three would see the fitting of a Supercharger to complete the transformation. This would give me all the power I would need, in a FWD car, whilst allowing me to learn to cope with it progressively. I would not waste any of the money spent on the original Phases as they all lead towards the eventual goal.
It seems like a no-brainer to me but I am obviously missing out on a number of simple stumbling blocks and it is not a good idea at all.
Comments please…..
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You really need the PG block from a G60 as I think you'll struggle to run much boost with a standard 2.0 bottom end. TBH (and I hate myself for syaing this as I love 8v's) a better and cheaper option would be to just swap in a 2.0 16v ABF. You should see 150+ horses out of the box and as yours is a digifant II car the conversion is reasonably straight forward.
Either that or just go 2.0 8v with a P&P'd head and cam. This you can do in phases and you should end up with 145ish bhp.
Nick
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Oh and on another note I was thinking about ditching the digifant and going with a megasquirt system. This is as I think that I will have to look hard at the entire loom as it seems to be broken or cut and repaired in several places. In order to get piece of mind I am thinking that I ought to take out sections of loom and replace with "homemade" sections made to fit with only the bits I need. This ought to save a little weight, ditch parts of the loom I don't need, but would give me piece of mind when MOT time approaches.
Is this doable / worthwhile at home?
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Well it has been a long time but I was out at Brands yesterday so thought I had better update this thread!
Briefly after Brands last year she got parked up on the drive and SWIMBO got serious about me buying her a house, so most of my free time became hers and I was reduced to thinking about upgrades and scouting the net for parts. I managed to procure some plexi windows, a full poly-bush set and a few other bits and pieces. A good mate, Will, has just returned from Afgansitan and I promised that I would take him out on a track day so I got permission to book Brands this week and planned to use the week before to ensure that she was ready. So she has sat on the drive until last week when I, unfortunately, got some bad news from a friend and I had to use her to drive 300 miles to Kent and back. Cue a rush looking for all the documentation so that I could get a tax disk and make her road legal again. I found all of the stuff, eventually, but the Post Office informed me that DVLA had never marked her as SORN so they will be looking to receiver the tax for the 4 months she has not been taxed, still waiting for that one. Still she started first time and ran absolutely fine for the trip down and back so I was very pleased. What was not so good was that all of the time I had booked to give her a good once over had now disappeared in a puff of smoke and all I had time to do was clear out the detritus from the last track day, pack some tools and spares and fit a 1l skimmed milk carton as a makeshift oil catch tank. (See previous posts about oil surge and smoking exhausts round Clearways) My thinking was that as she had run very well for over 300 miles that would count as a shakedown prior to the track day.
So Tues morning, 0545 hrs, we left and she ran beautifully up to Brands and we arrived in plenty of time, bagged a garage and I set to looking for any problems that might occur. Cue the first issue of the day. When I fitted the “oil catch tank†I, mistakenly it seems, thought that the small gaps between the plastic cap and the breather pipe would be enough to vent any excess pressure but it wasn’t and oil had been forced through the dip-stick pipe past the dip-stick itself. I decided that a progressive approach was required and drilled a couple of 4mm holes in the top of the handle and was expecting to have to increase as necessary. As it turned out this was sufficient and lasted the entire day without problems and without any smoke at all. She passed noise testing (84db) with flying colours (105db limit) and warmed up nicely on the sighting laps. I did a few flying laps to show Will which way the track goes and then let him loose in the car. Cue red flags after about three laps and on return to the pits a number of marshals crowding round as steam erupted from the bonnet with a vengeance. I was told that I had just dropped all of my oil all over the track and a couple pf the following cars had spun off. I was horrified and quickly lifted the bonnet to see coolant everywhere. I did a quick check for any oil but couldn’t find any at all. I showed the marshal who had stayed with me and he agreed but they didn’t accept this over the radio and continued to announce over the tannoy that I had dropped all of my oil over the track. Me one unhappy bunny s I really dislike being blamed for something that was not my fault, especially something like dropping oil all over a race track. Still the marshal agreed that there was no oil under the car, the fluid over the engine bay was coolant and he told me not to worry.
What really surprised me was the reaction from everyone else; I got several drivers coming round to my garage not to berate me for spoiling their day but to express concern over my misfortune and offer assistance if required. When the engine had cooled a little it became apparent that the alternator belt had snapped and the resulting increase in water temp / pressure had split the bottom hose from the coolant pump to the oil cooler dropping most of my coolant. Time for my next surprise as Mark, the owner of a very nice Sierra Cosworth, in the other side of the pit garage came up trumps and found a piece of pipe the was about the same ID with a single 90 deg bend in it. With a bit of work we managed to shape it to fit and using an additional jubilee clip, to prevent a nasty kink form forming, fabricated a good repair. Then came a really annoying disappointment as I discovered that the v-belt I had brought was not the correct one and was far too short to fit. Cue another nice surprise as the owners of a very nice Volvo came round to borrow a can of WD40 and said they thought they might have a longer belt. They did and although it was still not really the correct length I did manage to fit it and get the alternator attached to the block so we were good to go. A quick road test towards the Texaco proved that nothing was leaking and so the marshals let me back out before lunch and a dozen or so laps proved that she was good to go again.
By 1630 hrs the tyres were looking particularly hot and buggered so I did a good inspection and each tyre was wearing evenly, a good sign, the NSF and OSR were wearing more heavily than the other two. I decided that as I had to drive back on the road it would be wise to spread the wear and swapped the sides on each axle. This proved successful and the repairs held for the rest of the day so Will and I had great fun right up until the chequered flag at 1700 hrs. Given that the track was empty for the last 30 mins we both got 15 mins each of uninterrupted flying laps of Brands, there can be no better way to end a day. So I packed up, thanked everyone who helped, grabbed a slow coffee to calm down and relax before the journey back and then headed home. There wasn’t even too much traffic on the M25 so overall a very successful day.
Outcomes / Tasks:
I need to fit a proper oil catch tank. – Ratsport £32
I could do with moving the header tank as it fouls on the strut brace.
I could do with a proper oil cooler and get rid of the OEM water system.
I need some properly sized spigot rings for my 15†rims (currently fitted with Toyo R1’s)
I could do with some gauges for oil pressure and temp.
Need to fit the poly bushes.
Need to fit the plexi windows.
Need to think about more power (ABF anyone?)
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Sounds that despite the issues you had a brialliant day. Good stuff mate!
Nick
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Sounds that despite the issues you had a brialliant day. Good stuff mate!
Nick
124 track miles even with the enforced 2 hour 30 min pit stop, so yes we did! :grin:
Need the car to go faster now, there were three Mk2's with ABF's fitted and they couldn't lose me in the corners but just disappeared on the straights. I was thinking / looking for a “worked†8v head but the price appears to be even more than a complete Mk3 ABF car so that may well be the best option. The only problem will be timing issues as, when I buy SWIMBO her house, I will need the Mk2 to drive to and from home each weekend. I would thus need to do the actual swap over a weeks leave, if I can get a free week, so buying a Mk3 and striping it down, preparing the engine and other bits over a few weekends prior to the swap seems like a great idea. It has yet to come into contact with the “enemy†though so we will see.
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I could do with a proper oil cooler and get rid of the OEM water system.
Leave the current 'sandwich' in there and fit a thermostatic take-off block for an oil cooler below it.
That way the oil will be bought up to operating temperature quickly, by the coolant and then held down to the right temperature by the external cooler.
What oil temps were you running to cause concern?
ABF on OEM management is definitely the way forward - the difference between my breathed on 2.0 8V crossflow and the ABF I now have is like night and day. GFI!
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I could do with a proper oil cooler and get rid of the OEM water system.
Leave the current 'sandwich' in there and fit a thermostatic take-off block for an oil cooler below it.
That way the oil will be bought up to operating temperature quickly, by the coolant and then held down to the right temperature by the external cooler.
What oil temps were you running to cause concern?
It was getting up to 110 - 114 on the MFA so a cooler not essential but there is plenty of room and they are not expensive or difficult to fit.
ABF on OEM management is definitely the way forward - the difference between my breathed on 2.0 8V crossflow and the ABF I now have is like night and day. GFI!
That's the plan, I just need to find a cheep Mk3 ABF to strip (as long as SWIMBO dosen't notice the new car on the drive! :tongue:
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A cooler sounds like complete overkill. Why bother? It's something else to go wrong and *leak*.
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A cooler sounds like complete overkill. Why bother? It's something else to go wrong and *leak*.
you could be right, but would it be needed with an ABF? If so I might as well do it now and carry the mod over when I change engine.
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Sounds like a good day. It never stops amazing me how helpful people are on trackdays with offers of tools and parts.
My abf doesn't seem to get any hotter than yours, I'll keep a better eye on it tomorrow and let you know the temps.
Keep on enjoying.
Paul
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Oil temps on the mfa today on my mk3 abf were showing up to 118 on the track this afternoon on a hot day.
Paul
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That's the plan, I just need to find a cheep Mk3 ABF to strip (as long as SWIMBO dosen't notice the new car on the drive! :tongue:
£200 cheap enough
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=156596.0
:wink:
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I want that but have no trailer at the moment and no access to one :cry:
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rent one for the day for £25 :huh:
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Nothing to tow with either at the mo, ah well will just have to wait for aanother one to pop up, I hope someone does get it though and use it for a conversion :smiley: If they do i may be interested in the wide track setup :smiley:
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That's the plan, I just need to find a cheep Mk3 ABF to strip (as long as SWIMBO dosen't notice the new car on the drive! :tongue:
£200 cheap enough
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=156596.0
:wink:
It's gone, just as well really as I am about to make an offer on a house for SWIMBO tomorrow morning, and we are now supposed to be on a strict budget!
I am pushing for a workshop on the drive as the first job on the house though, need somewhere for the bench, lathe, tools, etc, etc.
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Well I'm back, sort of! :laugh:
I've been told that I will definately be back in Germany early next month and should be home by the middle of the month. I will have a few jobs to do for SWIMBO and will have to spend a bit of time with the kids but there should be time to, at least, plan the next set of improvements to the car. I have a full set of polybushes and all the parts for a wide track conversion on the front to fit. I am also plannning to arrange to get her trailered over to Germany when I go back as I will be serving unaccompanied and so should have some more time to work on bits. I will also have full access to German tuning parts and scrap so will be looking at the engine change I have been promising myself. On my last trackday i was talking to someone, and i forget which company they were from, who was extolling the virtues of the diesel conversion over the ABF as it has more torque andn is not any heavier. It would mean swapping over the fuel system but is it worth it? I have seen more oil burners on trackdays but am not sure that I really want to follow them. I am still thinking that an ABF is the way to go , but also have a friend who is putting a ruddy great v8 in the back on a GT40 subframe cut to suit! Not sure i'd go that far but it is an interesting proposition isn't it.
I am thinking that i really need a rollcage of some sort and am hoping that SWIMBO will let me keep some of my Op bonus to fund one and then I'll try and source on in Germany as i can claim back the tax, the only benefit left to us over there. Still should be interestign times, I hope.
Well I'll keep logging on as best I can and am looking forward to seeing rain again,
Jon
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I meant to mention that I have been getting these funny ideas, must be due to the heat and overexposure to the sun! :grin: I'm thinking about engine choices and the relative merits of diesel, petrol, 4 cylinders, 5 cylinders, six cylinders, forced induction, etc, etc, etc. It struck me that light-weight was the first prioroty and then power all predicated on cost. Now I guess that the turbo-charged 20v would be the obvious choice, but that is quite expensive, so I was thinking about v6's. The VR6 is not as light as it might be and so someone suggested the Alfa V6 as it is light, powerful and very cheap. I have been looking and it should fit and even comes in FWD guise in the 164 & 166. The wheelbase of the 164 is 2660mm and the 166 2720mm so a little longer than the Mk3 at 2474mm. I have used the Mk3 wheelbase as I have the parts to wide track my Mk 2. Is this a really bad idea or does it have some merit? I mean they soiund brilliant, look fabulous and should make for a lively Mk2 that's a bit different.
I think I'm either a genius or absolutally daft, but which is it?
Answers on a postcard..........
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Daft, ABF FTW
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Daft, ABF FTW
Baaaaaaa!
If you can make it fit, sort the loom etc etc then go for it mate! Deffinately not something I've heard of, but go for it, and break away from the norm! :wink:
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If you could get it and working it would be ace, what is the weight like for a V6
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someone suggested the Alfa V6 as it is light, powerful and very cheap. I have been looking and it should fit and even comes in FWD guise in the 164 & 166. The wheelbase of the 164 is 2660mm and the 166 2720mm so a little longer than the Mk3 at 2474mm.
This is a terrible idea.
What do you want to do, spend your term in Germany trying to make something work, or driving?
You'll be in Germany, with a Brit registered car on German-specific insurance, cooked up by the British forces.
You need something simple, reliable and fun, which can be battered around a long race-track endlessly. :grin:
The letters A, B and F are coming to mind very readily.
Alternatively you could look at a 1.8T, but it's far more complex and heavier. You will also use more consumables.
Spend the money on the cage, buckets and harnesses, then an ABF and 02A 'box and then an LSD in the 'box, then ITBs for the ABF.
This should keep you busy and entertained for some time.
Oh and don't go thinking parts are cheaper in Germany!
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Just got my copy of PPC mag and they are talking about the Fiat 20v engine as a real budget contender. Now the VW one fits so would the Fiat? :huh:
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Just got my copy of PPC mag and they are talking about the Fiat 20v engine as a real budget contender. Now the VW one fits so would the Fiat? :huh:
Doubt it, 5 pot and the width could be a problem. :undecided:
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Just got my copy of PPC mag and they are talking about the Fiat 20v engine as a real budget contender. Now the VW one fits so would the Fiat? :huh:
Doubt it, 5 pot and the width could be a problem. :undecided:
Yes, but it fits across the width of the Fiat Coupe and that's not a wide car so it should be able to be made to fit. :undecided: well anyhting can be made to fit, it's just what's best / most cost effective / avaliable / etc
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Just got my copy of PPC mag and they are talking about the Fiat 20v engine as a real budget contender. Now the VW one fits so would the Fiat? :huh:
Doubt it, 5 pot and the width could be a problem. :undecided:
Yes, but it fits across the width of the Fiat Coupe and that's not a wide car so it should be able to be made to fit. :undecided: well anyhting can be made to fit, it's just what's best / most cost effective / avaliable / etc
The trouble was that in the Fiat coupe it was shoehorned in so much so it is nearly engine out for the cambelt.
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The trouble starts when you start thinking about it.
Anything's possible.
If not, just buy a bigger hammer.
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Don't i know it! :laugh: Too much time and no spanners, or car for that matter, to actually do anything. Still I have been trying to work out the weights, sizes, costs and normal / potential power outputs of all the engines I've mentioned but information would appear to be contradictory and hard to find. Well hard to find when you are trying on a WiFi with 10,000 other people also looking at Facebook! Any information greatly apreciated.
Currently I am thinking about:
ABF
1.8T
Fiat 4 cylinder turbo 190bhp
Fiat 5 cylinder turbo 220bhp
Alfa V6
Anyone?
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As much as I hate to admit it, DH's post does make sense.
Too easy to think "track car, let's find the best engine ever".
Depends on the budget.
As DH said, cages and harnesses etc are probably the first port of call.
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Yes I agree on the order to do things. The first will be the cage and then seats and harnesses but I will have about 18 months without familly to worry about in the evenings and access to a reasonable workshop, so am trying to think about further work. I may well just be dreaming, but there's no harm there is there?
So in my imaginary world which would work best? Data I have so far:
VW Stable
ABF
1984cc
4 cylinders
16 Valves
148bhp
AAA/ABU
2792/2861cc
6 cylinders
12 valves
172/188bhp
BAM
1781cc
4 cylinders
20 valves
221bhp
149kg (dry)
Fiat
1995cc
4 cylinders
16 valves
190bhp
1998
5 cylinders
20 valves
220bhp
Alfa
2959/3179
6 cylinders
24 valves
208-227/237-247bhp
I need to try and find dimensions and weights for all these.
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I agree with Wayne on the width of the Coupe Fiat. I think you'll find it has a clamshell bonnet and when you lift that there is a LOT of engine and gearbox under there!
The advantage of the ABF (aside from the fact it just bolts up) is that it's light and helps maintain the balance and handling of the Golf.
That 148bhp would be VERY pessimistic on the output for a healthy ABF motor, with a good 4-branch on the back. Add at least another 10bhp on OEM management.
The VR6 on Golf3 mounts is canted forwards, so not only is it significantly heavier, it's also further forward in the shell.
The whole Alfa thing is just dirty and you should take yourself to one side and give yourself a good talking to.
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I agree with Wayne on the width of the Coupe Fiat. I think you'll find it has a clamshell bonnet and when you lift that there is a LOT of engine and gearbox under there!
Good point with the bonnet, I forgot they had a clamshell type, it is a big old engine.
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p51/jmfangio5/KGrHqJh4E4p6SniBOScUIUn-Q_12.jpg)
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OK, I give in I'll stop looking about at other things and concentrate on finding all the bits and bobs needed to convert to an ABF.
I was only looking, and the Fiat 4 cylinder is much more powerful, 190bhp out of the box, and the gearbox has a LSD as standard, and it would be different, and, and ,and :laugh:
As an aside does anyone know the weights or sizes?
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So just got back from Bastion and am kicking my heels in Gutersloh for a few days when i was awoken this morning by the sound of tyres being pushed to the absolute limits. :laugh: I had to get up and go see what's occurring, didn't I, well any self-respecting petrol-head would. What I found is better than great. Gutersloh has its own race car club and they run a cheap as chips race series on the airfield! Link here www.rallyx.de
They were holding their last event of the season and will start again in the new year. It seems like a very friendly club and there are a couple of mk2’s racing as well as a very quick mk3 today. Budgets are minimal, no race licence required and looks like a lot of fun. There is a German member who’s business makes stuff out of CDS tube so he makes roll-cages for club members for 180 euros fitted, you just prep the car and take it to him and he gives it back a few days later with a cage fitted. Not they are not FIA but I’ve had a look at some and the welding looks good and there is plenty of triangulation and bracing so I’m happy. I just need to think about engine choices as the rules state that the engine must have been fitted to the car by the manufacturer, so there is a G60 Mk2 running but I was looking at the classes and that would be in Class D which is 120 BHP plus and so I might be better aiming at 119BHP to remain in Class C, but at the top end. Now I’m not sure what my 8v is putting out but I think I should be able to get a reliable 119 out of it, shouldn’t I? If so where do I start?
Looking forward to this now, should be a lot of fun next year.
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A 2.0l 8v engine is 115 as std and bolts up direct(should run with digi correct me if im wrong :smiley:), could do a 2.0 bottom end swap as well and keep stock digi/kjet
both would see you scrape in under 120bhp without a CAT.
2.0/BE swap with Mk2 16v gearbox would see you a fairly nifty Mk2 8v, any more mods than a panel filter might put you over the 120 and into the realms of needing more valves :smiley:
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So decisions, decisions, decisions! The way forward is this, well I think that it is today but I reserve the right to change my mind by lunchtime, or tomorrow whatever suit me better! :rolleyes: I have decided to develop my Mk2 bit by bit, cheaper and actually more likely to happen, rather than plan for a complete overhaul and radical change. I will try and source a cheap second / spare 8v engine and will work slow time on getting that built and ready to fit. I was thinking that lightened and balanced internals combined with a port matched manifold and free flowing air filter, with ducted external cold air feed, will provide sensible and reliable power nicely towards the top of the Class C 90-120 BHP range. :nerd:
The car is already stripped out and lightened, as much as I can / want to do so there is little benefit from trying to remove the last few ounces. I am undecided about the whole seam welding thing, both in my ability to weld and the benefits it would bring, but have decided that one of the first jobs will be to remove the sunroof and when I do this I will seam weld everything up in the roof / a & B pillar area. This should provide a little more strength here and cannot hurt. I am going to try and strip back the sunroof panel so that I can weld it back in place and create a single skinned roof once again. This will achieve two things, it will remove some weight (and from the top of the car always a benefit) and it will clear the area for the roll cage to be fitted. The roll cage will be made early next year in Germany and I will base it on the one here: http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/322822/2220902.aspx#2220902 a great thread with lots of pictures on how to do it correctly. I cannot guarantee that the CDS will be FIA compliant but at least the design and fitting should make me safe, and that is the main effort. I am also going to get off my, rather smaller backside (post Afghan heat and lots of phys), and get the poly-bushes fitted to my wide-track arms and then finish the conversion. I also have the anti-roll bar from the Passat so I will look and see which is thicker and fit that. I am not sure if my brakes will be sufficient but unless the consensus here is to change them I will continue with the 16v items I have. I need to fit the polycarb windows that I have sitting in the garage as they are a requirement of the race series. I will also need to fit a cut-out switch and was thinking that now would be a good time to relocate the battery as well. What I was thinking was moving the battery to the boot on the passenger side and then run the power cable forward to the front wing, external cut-off switch for marshals, and then into the dash for the main cut-out switch in the cabin. I also need to fit a fire extinguisher, but the rules allow for a portable one to be secured in the cabin. A mate did mention, a few months ago, that he had an old plumbed in system that I could have so I might get that fitted but if not then it will be a hand held one in with me.
Other than that I will just try and get it ready for the first race and see what breaks or how far off the pace I am! Comments suggestions always gratefully received and if anyone wants to help then I’ll be in Kent up until Xmas! :wink:
Jon
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Sounds exciting!
Nick
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Sounds exciting!
Nick
No it sounds bloody terrifying, but also great fun! I have a helmit and nomex (one fo the perks of disposing of things that go BANG) so will be asking for gloves, shoes and a race suit for Xmas. Roll on next year and competition. I hope!
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For heavens sake, just go to the MSA Blue Book and check through the specs on cages. If you're using CDS whatever's being built really *should* be compliant.
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For heavens sake, just go to the MSA Blue Book and check through the specs on cages. If you're using CDS whatever's being built really *should* be compliant.
DH did you have a look at the link? The cage I'll be using as a template IS fully compliant and given that he builds it step by step with photographs it shoudl allow my German to follow and copy. I will also have a good guide to follow for me, to make any amendments or additions. It's my head that will be bouncing along close to the bars so i want to know I've got the best protection going. :cool:
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So I've started to make a mental list of jobs that need doing and so thought I'd put them on here so i don't forget! list of things to buy in red! :undecided:
- 1. Move expansion tank, (it currently fouls the front strut brace) and washer bottle (to large and heavy).
- 2. Move Battery to boot and run new cable to wing mounted cut-out switch and dash mounted cut-out switch. 2 x cut-off switch
- 3. Strip out dash to allow roll cage fitting.
- 4. Fix plexiglass windows and rear screen. (finding the parts in the garage after the movers have finished and I was away will be interesting!)
- 5. Fix bonnet pins to front of bonnet. I was thinking of stripping the bonnet down of all the clutter and fixing a couple of thin ali right angle strengtheners and then using 4 x bonnet pins to attach it. This would save some weight and make access a little easier and i have seen it done before. Any thought on the potential advantages / disadvantages here? 2 (or 4) x bonnet pins
- 6. Actually finish prepping the wide-track conversion I stripped off a Passat over a year ago and fit.
It's not as long as I thought, there are lots more that I want to do but I am trying to prioritize the ones that must be done!
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Are you using aero-catches rather than pin with a clip jobbies? If you *do* go to the Eifel you may get turned away with the pin-and-clip type ones.
Washer bottle to boot as well as the battery?
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Interesting Read...
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So thread resurrection, once again! :laugh:
A quick update:
The car is in Surrey, I am in Germany and the family is in Kent! I have access to a full garage with a two pillar lift and compressor and have brought most of my tools and some of my spare parts over to enable me to fill my evenings and weekends with car fun rather than sitting alone in a room in the Mess. So I splashed out on a spare PB head and a few other bits and pieces over Xmas and am planning to build a strong PB engine to fit to the car, when it joins me over here, hopefully in late Feb. I also brought over the wide-track parts and will be cleaning these up and fitting the polybushes I have so that they can also be fitted once I am reunited with the car.
I started looking at the head and decided that I should have a little look at the casting and see if it needed any cleaning up before reassembly. I have taken some pictures and will post the results as soon as i can fire up my laptop and get them uploaded. I am also planning on acquiring a spare bottom end and will be, hopefully, getting all of the rotating parts lightened and balanced before re-building the engine. The aim is a good strong PB kicking out a reliable 117-120 bhp that will survive my ham-fisted attempts to get it round a track as quickly as possible!
Still at least I am doing something positive and have actually achieved some work on the car, even if I am a few hundred miles away from it!
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Good stuff Jon!
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So as promised I took some photos to show what I have done / am attempting to do. All work was done with a Dremel Pro and a variety of bits I already had.
First a look at the head before work commenced:
In this first shot you can see the overall condition of the head. I have specifically checked, visually, for any cracks between the valve seats and generally for any evidence of cracking elsewhere.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5966.jpg)
This is a closer look at the valve seat and you can see that there is a ridge between the base of the seat and the throat.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5967.jpg)
Here I have tried to show that there is a prominent ridge on the wall of the bowl behind the valve guide boss. There are also casting marks / burrs across the port that can be felt with my finger.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5969.jpg)
For my first attempt all I have tried to do is smooth out the obvious casting marks and blend the ridge into the wall of the port. I used some small carbide tips i had and a speed of 22000 rpm. This seemed fine with gentle pressure and a bit of patience.
The initial results are as follows:
I first tried to blend the valve seat into the throat to get a continuous surface. This was achieved by gently grinding the join until there was a continuous colour change across the whole of the area. When I started there was an obvious line where the two surfaces did not match and I slowly worked until it felt smooth and looked continuous.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5970.jpg)
Next I delved deeper into the bowl and smoothed out the prominent ridge at the back of the valve guide boss. This took a bit of time, cutting then feeling then cutting then feeling etc, but eventually i got a result that i am happy with. It is not perfectly smooth and the ridge can still, just, be felt but it is much smoother than it was.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5971.jpg)
I then turned my attention to the inlet. Here there was a very prominent casting burr running down each side into the port. I smoothed these out on both sides.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5974.jpg)
I then slowed down the speed and fitted a stone to try and further smooth out the walls of the port. The results are as follows:
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5976.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5977.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5978.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/VW%20PB%208v%20engine%20porting/20120125-IMG_5981.jpg)
I am sure that there is much more that could be achieved, i am just trying to go slowly and learn as I go.
Over to you all for comment / critique!
Jon
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Well she is finally in the same location as me, not just in the same hemisphere, on the same continent, actually in the same physical location! The battery was flat, as were the tyres, and she was covered in dirt but I could touch her. So I've knocked off work early (about 1730 hrs!) gave her a quick wash, put the battery on charge and pushed her into the garage.
There are lots of jobs that need doing but the first one is getting the roll-cage made and fitted. So off came the bonnet, out came the seats and everything else inside and out came the dash. I then looked at the sunroof and roof lining and so that came out as well. I started to grind out the sunroof case and realised that it was 2100 hrs and I needed to get something to eat and then some sleep before work today.
still buzzing that I can actually work on her again. The first race of the season is this weekend but I am not going to make that. I will not bodge things just to save a little time, I want to keep her and thus I am doing it once and properly! So tonight I am going to try to finish stripping the interior and then she will go off to get caged.
I will take a few pictures later and post.
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Glad to hear your back on it...
look forward to some updated pics :smiley:
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So, as promised, pics. Not very good ones, as I only had my mobile with me and I'm not as talented as Horney! :kiss:
I have stripped out the interior, what there was of it, and it is all now on the floor in the workshop.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/Golf%20Mk2%20RallyCross%20conversion/Photo378-1.jpg)
I have also removed the dash and everything I could think of so that the cage can be properly fitted tight to the A-pillars. I have kept the dash and will, probably, trim it down, to just the bits I want, and then refit around the cage.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/Golf%20Mk2%20RallyCross%20conversion/Photo380-1.jpg)
I removed the sunroof and stripped out the headlining. I then decided that i should do the job properly and set about chopping out the sunroof housing. I still have to tidy up the edges and grind down a few small pieces but here is the roof now.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/Golf%20Mk2%20RallyCross%20conversion/Photo381-1.jpg)
That just left the sunroof itself to be stripped back so I can weld it back into place and have a complete roof again.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/JonLeeper/Golf%20Mk2%20RallyCross%20conversion/Photo379-1.jpg)
So I will continue to tidy up the work already done then it's out with the glass windows and in with plexi ones, except the windscreen.