GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: howlingmoon on 20 September 2009, 21:44
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Hi all,
An accident in Wolfburg on 17 September.... 4 out of the 5 occupants in the car are dead. They did not wear safety belts. Shows how irresponsible driving can caused so much damage. The car was only a few hours old. I do not want to be the dad who's son was driving it. It surely sobers me up...
Please drive responsible... I attach some pics of the accident... from the Welt newspaper... Here's the German news website that carried the news..
http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article4554186/Vier-junge-Maenner-sterben-in-fabrikneuem-Golf-GTD.html
http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/2009/09/17/wolfsburg-vier-tot-im-fabrikneuen-golf/100-stundenkilometer.html
HM
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae63/karakaeda/kami_wolfsburg_DW_V_899445g.jpg)
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae63/karakaeda/kami_golf_Neu_2_DW__899476g.jpg)
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae63/karakaeda/kami_wolfsburg_hint_899450g.jpg)
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae63/karakaeda/kami_golf_Neu_1_DW__899475g.jpg)
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:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
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Hold on, so this £28k car I'm buying halfed in two ? Erm.
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Surly more than 100kmh to split one in two with a tree?
Nick
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I'd be asking VW questions of why my car split in 2.
More I look at that, the more it looks horrible :sad:
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Car's do split in two when they hit a tree side on, but that has to have been more than 100kph (62mph).
nick
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According to the news report, the car hit a traffic island and got launched into the tree... yeah, 100km/h does not sound much... but the pictures are rather conclusive...
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Car's do split in two when they hit a tree side on, but that has to have been more than 100kph (62mph).
nick
Agreed. If my car hits a tree at 60mph and it splits in two, I'd be taking VW to court.
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I think if I hit a tree and the car splits into two, I would not be in the mood to talk to anyone... :cry:
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The occupants didn't wear belts? That's just mental. I wouldn't want to wish death on anybody, but I have to say it's just stupid not to be wearing belts. Doesn't the Mk6 have 3-point belts on all seats anyway? There isn't really an excuse.
Having said that perhaps being dead in that situation isn't such a bad thing. Something that I think may not be so desirable is having belts/airbags or whatever protect you from medical death, but you just end up a cabbage.
A few weeks ago when I was enjoying the thrills of Alton Towers, on the walk back to the car, I saw a somewhat unorthodox use of the interior space in what I believe was a Mk4 Golf - driver and shotgun passenger, then I think 4 maybe 5 on the back seat, and a girl in the boot :shocked:
I know modern cars are built to withstand certain impacts, but surely you aren't helping if you are stuffing yourselves inside like sardines?
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If I correctly interpret the report, the occupants except one were flung out of the car after the impact with the tree... Makes me feel how easy it is to die. Packing a car like sardines is a sure way to kill many in an accident. Sometimes we put too little value to our mortality. Always thinking we are invulnerable when we are so easily snuffed out...
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Isnt there something like 7 airbags in the front and sides of the new gti ? Shows how much help they done.
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Airbags only works when the seatbelt is worn...
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Can't get over how the door is wrapped round the tree trunk.
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60mph IS fast, it doesn't feel like it in our cocooned, sound proofed and deceptively smooth cars but you stand beside a dual carriageway and imagine cars travelling at that speed hitting an immovable object....
All that kinetic energy is going to do something - no energy absorbing crumple zones in a side on collision, just a few mm of steel. :sad:
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Looks like emergency services chopped it up to get bodies out. I doubt that could happen in an accident.
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Airbags only works when the seatbelt is worn...
Is that true ? Surely not.
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Looks like emergency services chopped it up to get bodies out. I doubt that could happen in an accident.
Aha, why didnt I think of that, thats probably spot on.
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Can't get over how the door is wrapped round the tree trunk.
That was my thought too - not only that though, but look how high up the tree it is. The car must've been flying sideways.
I don't think airbags or seatbelts were going to help anyone there. Thats nasty.
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Car's do split in two when they hit a tree side on, but that has to have been more than 100kph (62mph).
nick
Agreed. If my car hits a tree at 60mph and it splits in two, I'd be taking VW to court.
good luck as you'll probably be as in as many pieces as the car itself
60mph IS fast, it doesn't feel like it in our cocooned, sound proofed and deceptively smooth cars but you stand beside a dual carriageway and imagine cars travelling at that speed hitting an immovable object....
All that kinetic energy is going to do something - no energy absorbing crumple zones in a side on collision, just a few mm of steel. :sad:
+1
most cars are tested upto 40mph
have a look here and you'll see no cars are tested in 60mph conditions
Euro NCAP Tests (http://www.euroncap.com/testprocedures.aspx)
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Airbags only works when the seatbelt is worn...
Is that true ? Surely not.
In the US, airbags are designed to offer (some) protection based on the people NOT wearing seatbelts as alot of americans still don't wear / trust seatbelts. In europe where the vast majority of people DO wear seatbelts, the airbags are designed to work on the basis of the people wearing seatbelts.
The difference is the time it stays inflated and size mostly.
I don't know why its so hard to believe that 60 mph did that to a car. Although they feel very solid, like I say in reality its only a couple of mm of steel mostly to protect you.
Doesn't matter how much you pay for the car either, have a look at the picture gallery here for what happened to an RS4 recently. I would guess 30/40 zone at that point but no idea how fast she was going, observe how the lamp post split the car in half lengthways... :shocked:
http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/1392731
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I agree. Without wearing a seatbelt you are probably going to miss the airbag or more than likely go right through the airbag and through the window.
So airbags are probably useless if you had a crash without wearing a seatbelt.
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Seatbelts or airbags i doubt would of made a difference in that crash :sad:
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Airbags only works when the seatbelt is worn...
Is that true ? Surely not.
In the US, airbags are designed to offer (some) protection based on the people NOT wearing seatbelts as alot of americans still don't wear / trust seatbelts. In europe where the vast majority of people DO wear seatbelts, the airbags are designed to work on the basis of the people wearing seatbelts.
The difference is the time it stays inflated and size mostly.
I don't know why its so hard to believe that 60 mph did that to a car. Although they feel very solid, like I say in reality its only a couple of mm of steel mostly to protect you.
Doesn't matter how much you pay for the car either, have a look at the picture gallery here for what happened to an RS4 recently. I would guess 30/40 zone at that point but no idea how fast she was going, observe how the lamp post split the car in half lengthways... :shocked:
http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/1392731
Ahh I didnt know that at all, mind you, I always wear my seatbelt even when sitting in the back of a car. What a car is worth should matter, I fully expect a car at £30k to have a batter safety rating than a kia at £6k. Also, I think to help to prevent accidents like these a buzzer/alarm much like when your door is not closed properly should go off if your seatbelt is not fastened.
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Also, I think to help to prevent accidents like these a buzzer/alarm much like when your door is not closed properly should go off if your seatbelt is not fastened.
is there not one in the MK6 then as there was one fitted to the MK5
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Also, I think to help to prevent accidents like these a buzzer/alarm much like when your door is not closed properly should go off if your seatbelt is not fastened.
is there not one in the MK6 then as there was one fitted to the MK5
Yes there is on the driver and passanger seats
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He should have bought a Renault.
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He should have bought a Renault.
:grin: :grin:
if you have slight retardation you buy a renault
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Also, I think to help to prevent accidents like these a buzzer/alarm much like when your door is not closed properly should go off if your seatbelt is not fastened.
is there not one in the MK6 then as there was one fitted to the MK5
Yes there is on the driver and passanger seats
Thats even worse then as they have completely ignored the buzz/alarm going off.
So lets get this right, no seatbelts used, ignored seatbelt warnings, crammed car full of people, doing 100.
My sympathies have just ran out for these people.
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Mind it was 100Km/h not mph. I'm not sticking up for them but it looks like a big wide road with 2 possibly 3 lanes.
Don't know what the VW seatbelt warning is like but if its anything like my Mazda it goes off after 60 seconds.
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The point here is not how much your car costs. Its you, the driver... Even if the car is built to withstand any impact (hypothetically), if you the driver drives like a c0ck... nothing is gonna save you or your passengers. The lady in Aberdeen aquaplaned, nothing any driver can do about it. She is lucky to be alive considering the impact.
Yeah, the GTI has seatbelt warnings which activates after 60 seconds or so. Its bloody annoying.
HM
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Mind it was 100Km/h not mph. I'm not sticking up for them but it looks like a big wide road with 2 possibly 3 lanes.
Don't know what the VW seatbelt warning is like but if its anything like my Mazda it goes off after 60 seconds.
Mine starts to off when you get to around 15mph
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Surly more than 100kmh to split one in two with a tree?
Ouch. Side impacts are the worst - there's no crumple zone to absorb the energy.
Simple physics guys - kinetic energy is half the mass times the velocity squared, so velocity has a huge effect in the amount of energy. You know how much damage an impact at 15mph causes to your pride and joy - well at 60mph there's sixteen times as much energy...
This little fact is why a surprisingly small difference in speed can have such a marked influence on the likely survival of pedestrian collisions.
Now pay attention class, I'll be giving you a test later on. :laugh:
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The point here is not how much your car costs. Its you, the driver... Even if the car is built to withstand any impact (hypothetically), if you the driver drives like a c0ck... nothing is gonna save you or your passengers. The lady in Aberdeen aquaplaned, nothing any driver can do about it. She is lucky to be alive considering the impact.
Yeah, the GTI has seatbelt warnings which activates after 60 seconds or so. Its bloody annoying.
HM
I'm not making a point of how much a car costs, I'm trying to make the point that you should be getting better and more protection in a car at any given price compared to one at say half the price. If a £30k car has the same safetly rating and protection of a car at £10k then I will be asking questions. As you say, if the driver drives like a c0ck then he is asking for trouble, but the c0ck driver should be more protected in a car that costs a fair amount of money.
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That is so tragic, a total useless waste of 4 lives just for the sake of not wearing seat belts!!! Obviously driving like an idiot with a car packed to the gunnels and no belts is kind of asking for trouble but 4 lives have been lost and that is sad.
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That is so tragic, a total useless waste of 4 lives just for the sake of not wearing seat belts!!!
Whoever was sitting next to that door stuck on the tree would have been a gonner whether or not they had a seatbelt on.
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I dont think the rescue services had cut the car and then dragged the smaller rear section several meters away... The more I look at the pictures, the more convinced I am that I will not want to remap my car or try to go any faster than necessary. Chills my bones just to imagine the impact... and in one of the pictures, there's so much blood on the street.
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Shocking.
Really does make you think.
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My Dad bought a new white car.
He died after two weeks of ownership.
After that I have never bought a white car and take extra care when hiring one.
It's a jinxed colour in my mind.
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My Dad bought a new white car.
He died after two weeks of ownership.
After that I have never bought a white car and take extra care when hiring one.
It's a jinxed colour in my mind.
It doesnt matter what colour a car is if you drive like a kn0b.
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My Dad bought a new white car.
He died after two weeks of ownership.
After that I have never bought a white car and take extra care when hiring one.
It's a jinxed colour in my mind.
It doesnt matter what colour a car is if you drive like a kn0b.
They are not called White Van Man for nothing.
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My Dad bought a new white car.
He died after two weeks of ownership.
After that I have never bought a white car and take extra care when hiring one.
It's a jinxed colour in my mind.
It doesnt matter what colour a car is if you drive like a kn0b.
They are not called White Van Man for nothing.
Obviously. If a man drives a white van what else are you going to call him.
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My Dad bought a new white car.
He died after two weeks of ownership.
After that I have never bought a white car and take extra care when hiring one.
It's a jinxed colour in my mind.
It doesnt matter what colour a car is if you drive like a kn0b.
They are not called White Van Man for nothing.
Obviously. If a man drives a white van what else are you going to call him.
Dave???
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^^ :grin: What if hes called Bill??
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^^ :grin: What if hes called Bill??
Then you call him Bill :rolleyes:
:grin: :grin: :grin:
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No wonder they all drive around like nutters... people keep calling them the wrong name! :tongue: :laugh:
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No wonder they all drive around like nutters... people keep calling them the wrong name! :tongue: :laugh:
Enough to send anybody over the edge :laugh:
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Mind it was 100Km/h not mph. I'm not sticking up for them but it looks like a big wide road with 2 possibly 3 lanes.
Don't know what the VW seatbelt warning is like but if its anything like my Mazda it goes off after 60 seconds.
I ran back and forward the quarter-mile to the village shop yesterday, twice. (Had to take the car because there's a limit to how much cat food, milk and bags of fruit I can load on my bike!) The twice was because I forgot my wallet. Frankly, I don't bother with the seat belt for that trip, 2 minutes at less than 20 mph.
Second time of travelling, the musical pinging to say I wasn't wearing the belt didn't happen. Don't know why. The dashboard display was lit up, though.
Rolfe.
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The alarm bell in my Mk5 drives me nuts just because sometimes I place a parcel on the passenger seat.
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Frankly, I don't bother with the seat belt for that trip, 2 minutes at less than 20 mph.
Surprised. Only takes a second to have an accident.
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The alarm bell in my Mk5 drives me nuts just because sometimes I place a parcel on the passenger seat.
I don't tend to like putting stuff on the passenger seat as what always tends to happen is either during braking the thing flies onto the floor, or going round bends it flies into the door or gets in the way of me changing gear. :undecided:
I seem to remember taxi drivers who regularly don't wear seatbelts will leave their seats with the belts clipped in but sit on top of the belt... presumably this is to get around the warning beep that most modern cars have?
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I seem to remember taxi drivers who regularly don't wear seatbelts will leave their seats with the belts clipped in but sit on top of the belt... presumably this is to get around the warning beep that most modern cars have?
that can't be comfortable. if they can get used to that discomfort, they might as well wear the thing properly!
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Frankly, I don't bother with the seat belt for that trip, 2 minutes at less than 20 mph.
Rolfe.
that is a disgusting attitude to have. and you're old enough to know better. seat belts save lives and its illegal to not wear one. i don't care how long your journey is, put your seat belt on.
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Frankly, I don't bother with the seat belt for that trip, 2 minutes at less than 20 mph.
Rolfe.
that is a disgusting attitude to have. and you're old enough to know better. seat belts save lives and its illegal to not where one. i don't care how long your journey is, put your seat belt on.
Plus your more likely to have a bash on a route your more familiar with, and when you least expect it. :wink:
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The alarm bell in my Mk5 drives me nuts just because sometimes I place a parcel on the passenger seat.
Iv turned my seatbelt chime off via VAGCOM :lipsrsealed:
Those are truly shocking photos though :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
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The point here is not how much your car costs. Its you, the driver... Even if the car is built to withstand any impact (hypothetically), if you the driver drives like a c0ck... nothing is gonna save you or your passengers. The lady in Aberdeen aquaplaned, nothing any driver can do about it. She is lucky to be alive considering the impact.
Yeah, the GTI has seatbelt warnings which activates after 60 seconds or so. Its bloody annoying.
HM
I'm not making a point of how much a car costs, I'm trying to make the point that you should be getting better and more protection in a car at any given price compared to one at say half the price. If a £30k car has the same safetly rating and protection of a car at £10k then I will be asking questions. As you say, if the driver drives like a c0ck then he is asking for trouble, but the c0ck driver should be more protected in a car that costs a fair amount of money.
A base golf costs 14k or thereabouts, sticking a bigger engine and some body kit on it isn't going to make it safer...
If your GTI is specced up to 28k it is exactly double the cost with no additional protection. Well, a couple of airbags maybe? What do you expect them to do? Redesign the entire car becuase your paying a bit more? Its not hard to see that while there is much tinkering around the edges with airbags / crumple zones and the like - at the end of the day it is (like every other car) a jumped up tin can thats going to deform badly if you drive it into anything at speed.
IMO people should drive as if they expect their cars to give them no protection whatsoever in an accident. The standard of driving would be much improved ...
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The point here is not how much your car costs. Its you, the driver... Even if the car is built to withstand any impact (hypothetically), if you the driver drives like a c0ck... nothing is gonna save you or your passengers. The lady in Aberdeen aquaplaned, nothing any driver can do about it. She is lucky to be alive considering the impact.
Yeah, the GTI has seatbelt warnings which activates after 60 seconds or so. Its bloody annoying.
HM
I'm not making a point of how much a car costs, I'm trying to make the point that you should be getting better and more protection in a car at any given price compared to one at say half the price. If a £30k car has the same safetly rating and protection of a car at £10k then I will be asking questions. As you say, if the driver drives like a c0ck then he is asking for trouble, but the c0ck driver should be more protected in a car that costs a fair amount of money.
A base golf costs 14k or thereabouts, sticking a bigger engine and some body kit on it isn't going to make it safer...
If your GTI is specced up to 28k it is exactly double the cost with no additional protection. Well, a couple of airbags maybe? What do you expect them to do? Redesign the entire car becuase your paying a bit more? Its not hard to see that while there is much tinkering around the edges with airbags / crumple zones and the like - at the end of the day it is (like every other car) a jumped up tin can thats going to deform badly if you drive it into anything at speed.
IMO people should drive as if they expect their cars to give them no protection whatsoever in an accident. The standard of driving would be much improved ...
Amen to that!! I agree wholeheartedly with that statement!!!
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Iv turned my seatbelt chime off via VAGCOM :lipsrsealed:
How did you do it Alan?
Is there a guide somewhere?
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The point here is not how much your car costs. Its you, the driver... Even if the car is built to withstand any impact (hypothetically), if you the driver drives like a c0ck... nothing is gonna save you or your passengers. The lady in Aberdeen aquaplaned, nothing any driver can do about it. She is lucky to be alive considering the impact.
Yeah, the GTI has seatbelt warnings which activates after 60 seconds or so. Its bloody annoying.
HM
I'm not making a point of how much a car costs, I'm trying to make the point that you should be getting better and more protection in a car at any given price compared to one at say half the price. If a £30k car has the same safetly rating and protection of a car at £10k then I will be asking questions. As you say, if the driver drives like a c0ck then he is asking for trouble, but the c0ck driver should be more protected in a car that costs a fair amount of money.
A base golf costs 14k or thereabouts, sticking a bigger engine and some body kit on it isn't going to make it safer...
If your GTI is specced up to 28k it is exactly double the cost with no additional protection. Well, a couple of airbags maybe? What do you expect them to do? Redesign the entire car becuase your paying a bit more? Its not hard to see that while there is much tinkering around the edges with airbags / crumple zones and the like - at the end of the day it is (like every other car) a jumped up tin can thats going to deform badly if you drive it into anything at speed.
IMO people should drive as if they expect their cars to give them no protection whatsoever in an accident. The standard of driving would be much improved ...
I need to stop swearing, so I've edited that out.
XDS, thats an extra safety feature on the GTI. Incase you didnt know, safety is not all about airbags.
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I would actually argue that XDS is a performance feature rather than a safety feature :lipsrsealed: :grin:
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I would actually argue that XDS is a performance feature rather than a safety feature :lipsrsealed: :grin:
So would I...
XDS isn't a safety feature.
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Yes, you're all right, I'm a bad person. I only posted it for information.
I suspect, now I've read the rest of the thread, that on the journey where it didn't chime at all, I wasn't going fast enough to activate it. (As I said, through narrow village street for about a quarter of a mile.)
Rolfe.
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The point here is not how much your car costs. Its you, the driver... Even if the car is built to withstand any impact (hypothetically), if you the driver drives like a c0ck... nothing is gonna save you or your passengers. The lady in Aberdeen aquaplaned, nothing any driver can do about it. She is lucky to be alive considering the impact.
Yeah, the GTI has seatbelt warnings which activates after 60 seconds or so. Its bloody annoying.
HM
I'm not making a point of how much a car costs, I'm trying to make the point that you should be getting better and more protection in a car at any given price compared to one at say half the price. If a £30k car has the same safetly rating and protection of a car at £10k then I will be asking questions. As you say, if the driver drives like a c0ck then he is asking for trouble, but the c0ck driver should be more protected in a car that costs a fair amount of money.
A base golf costs 14k or thereabouts, sticking a bigger engine and some body kit on it isn't going to make it safer...
If your GTI is specced up to 28k it is exactly double the cost with no additional protection. Well, a couple of airbags maybe? What do you expect them to do? Redesign the entire car becuase your paying a bit more? Its not hard to see that while there is much tinkering around the edges with airbags / crumple zones and the like - at the end of the day it is (like every other car) a jumped up tin can thats going to deform badly if you drive it into anything at speed.
IMO people should drive as if they expect their cars to give them no protection whatsoever in an accident. The standard of driving would be much improved ...
I need to stop swearing, so I've edited that out.
XDS, thats an extra safety feature on the GTI. Incase you didnt know, safety is not all about airbags.
Indeed, well done. If you read my post properly, you will see that I regard airbags etc as 'tinkering on the edges' of safety provision.
XDS is a hadling enhancement as others have pointed out :tongue:
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Let's say hypothetically, if XDS is for better handling only, then isnt that a safety feature that a car is handling better should you say, have to turn sharply or as it works along side ESP that you get better traction ? Should you need to swerve, turn sharply etc, XDS/ESP will keep you on the road more than a car without it, and as you guys say give better handling should you need it. All safety features in my eyes.
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XDS is traction control right?
In that case it is kind of a safety feature as well as a handling enhancement.
But obviously it won't help if you drive into a tree :tongue:
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the std golfs dont/wont go fast enough for XDS to be any use :tongue: :grin:
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Let's say hypothetically, if XDS is for better handling only, then isnt that a safety feature that a car is handling better should you say, have to turn sharply or as it works along side ESP that you get better traction ? Should you need to swerve, turn sharply etc, XDS/ESP will keep you on the road more than a car without it, and as you guys say give better handling should you need it. All safety features in my eyes.
It works with ESP?
Surely ESP works on its own...and will cut power - the opposite of what XDS does...that's to allow more power to be used, and transmitted to the tarmac by preventing the wheelspinning wheel from taking (and wasting) all the torque, as it would normally do in a car with an open diff.
XDS is only a more advanced version of EDL - it uses the ABS pump to activate the calliper of the spinning wheel, to try to stop torque wastage and send it to the wheel with grip.
It's doing a similar job to a LSD (electronically...and not as well to be honest) and you would never accuse an LSD as being a safety feature, would you?
Which means you can use more power, and corner faster...in a very unsafe way!
Not especially Safety enhancing that - allowing you to corner harder!
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Iv turned my seatbelt chime off via VAGCOM :lipsrsealed:
How did you do it Alan?
Is there a guide somewhere?
Have you got VAGCOM?
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XDS is traction control right?
Sort of...it's trying to do the job of a limited slip diff. Electronically.
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Have you got VAGCOM?
I do...latest VCDS.
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the std golfs dont/wont go fast enough for XDS to be any use :tongue: :grin:
There is some truth there...
It's also that some would suggest that standard Golfs don't have the power/torque to need it, nor the owners likely to corner fast enough to make best use of it!
XDS is designed to give more traction when cornering, from what I can see - to stop one wheel spinning.
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This is for the MK5 so I dont know if it will be the same on the MK6
Removing Seatbelt Chime
[Select]
[17 - Instruments]
[Recode - 07]
Write down the existing coding for future reference.
Look at the third and fourth digits in the coding (00??x0x). Add the values for the options together and put them in the third and fourth digit location to get the correct coding.
00 - No available equipment
+01 - Brakepad wear sensor warning active
+02 - Seatbelt warning active
+04 - Washer fluid level warning active
+16 - Sedan (Jetta)
So, if your stock Soft Coding is 0023203 and you want to remove the seatbelt chime, put in a new value of 0021203.
http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/Golf5.html
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Cheers!
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Let's say hypothetically, if XDS is for better handling only, then isnt that a safety feature that a car is handling better should you say, have to turn sharply or as it works along side ESP that you get better traction ? Should you need to swerve, turn sharply etc, XDS/ESP will keep you on the road more than a car without it, and as you guys say give better handling should you need it. All safety features in my eyes.
It works with ESP?
Surely ESP works on its own...and will cut power - the opposite of what XDS does...that's to allow more power to be used, and transmitted to the tarmac by preventing the wheelspinning wheel from taking (and wasting) all the torque, as it would normally do in a car with an open diff.
XDS is only a more advanced version of EDL - it uses the ABS pump to activate the calliper of the spinning wheel, to try to stop torque wastage and send it to the wheel with grip.
It's doing a similar job to a LSD (electronically...and not as well to be honest) and you would never accuse an LSD as being a safety feature, would you?
Which means you can use more power, and corner faster...in a very unsafe way!
Not especially Safety enhancing that - allowing you to corner harder!
I had to check to double make sure.... according to VW
For the first time the GTI features XDS, an extention of the well known EDL function. This is linked to the ESP hydraulics and works by applying pressure to the inner front wheel during fast cornering to prevent spinning. The one sided, precise brake pressure helps to maximise traction blah blah blah.
Sounds like it works along side it to me.
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I had to check to double make sure.... according to VW
For the first time the GTI features XDS, an extention of the well known EDL function. This is linked to the ESP hydraulics and works by applying pressure to the inner front wheel during fast cornering to prevent spinning. The one sided, precise brake pressure helps to maximise traction blah blah blah.
Sounds like it works along side it to me.
But ESP is purely electronic...it uses the ABS controller/pump to actually do the work, as far as I know.
So it's the ABS system it is linked to....as is the ESP, as it also uses the ABS to brake callipers as required to square the car up in a skid situation.
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I had to check to double make sure.... according to VW
For the first time the GTI features XDS, an extention of the well known EDL function. This is linked to the ESP hydraulics and works by applying pressure to the inner front wheel during fast cornering to prevent spinning. The one sided, precise brake pressure helps to maximise traction blah blah blah.
Sounds like it works along side it to me.
But ESP is purely electronic...it uses the ABS controller/pump to actually do the work, as far as I know.
So it's the ABS system it is linked to....as is the ESP, as it also uses the ABS to brake callipers as required to square the car up in a skid situation.
Well lets again just say hypothetically that VW are wrong, and they are not linked. For me, this is still a safety feature. It will only help if the GTi is ever in that position.
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I had to check to double make sure.... according to VW
For the first time the GTI features XDS, an extention of the well known EDL function. This is linked to the ESP hydraulics and works by applying pressure to the inner front wheel during fast cornering to prevent spinning. The one sided, precise brake pressure helps to maximise traction blah blah blah.
Sounds like it works along side it to me.
But ESP is purely electronic...it uses the ABS controller/pump to actually do the work, as far as I know.
So it's the ABS system it is linked to....as is the ESP, as it also uses the ABS to brake callipers as required to square the car up in a skid situation.
Well lets again just say hypothetically that VW are wrong, and they are not linked. For me, this is still a safety feature. It will only help if the GTi is ever in that position.
It actually means you can go round corners slightly faster. braking would be a much safer option tbh
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I had to check to double make sure.... according to VW
For the first time the GTI features XDS, an extention of the well known EDL function. This is linked to the ESP hydraulics and works by applying pressure to the inner front wheel during fast cornering to prevent spinning. The one sided, precise brake pressure helps to maximise traction blah blah blah.
Sounds like it works along side it to me.
But ESP is purely electronic...it uses the ABS controller/pump to actually do the work, as far as I know.
So it's the ABS system it is linked to....as is the ESP, as it also uses the ABS to brake callipers as required to square the car up in a skid situation.
Well lets again just say hypothetically that VW are wrong, and they are not linked. For me, this is still a safety feature. It will only help if the GTi is ever in that position.
It actually means you can go round corners slightly faster. braking would be a much safer option tbh
Do you always break in a straight line, I think it might be best to break and turn if your trying to avoid something ?
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Well lets again just say hypothetically that VW are wrong, and they are not linked. For me, this is still a safety feature. It will only help if the GTi is ever in that position.
VW also tell us the R has a 4WD system that can send 100% to the rear!
In this case, they aren't wrong...just not giving the full story.
For the first time the GTI features XDS, an extention of the well known EDL function. This is linked to the ESP hydraulics and works by applying pressure to the inner front wheel during fast cornering to prevent spinning.
EDL works by monitoring front wheel speeds and applying pressure using the ABS pump, to the spinning wheel...it's fairly crude and only works under 30 MPH (I have it on my Mk3) and it uses the ABS Pump to operate the callipers, via the brake hydraulics.
ESP is a set of electronics that monitors inputs and sends outputs to the ABS controller to actually do the braking - the ASP has no physical connection with the car's hydraulic brake system that I'm aware of and hence there are no ESP hydraulics - only ABS hydraulics linked to ESP inputs - unless it's changed on the Mk6?
An explanation of ESP is here:
http://www.bosch-esperience.co.uk/uk/language1/how_does_esp_work.html
Note the bit about: "It uses the vehicle's braking system to "steer" the vehicle back on track."
The fact that VW tell us that XDS is advanced EDL give the game away to anyone who understands how EDL works.
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It actually means you can go round corners slightly faster. braking would be a much safer option tbh
It would...but they are trying to sell the GTI to people who may want a Hot-Hatch type car, and may want to drive it accordingly...
So I suppose it makes sense to provide it and have many drivers not use it, than to not provide it and have new owners understeer off into the hedges and then blame the car!
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Well lets again just say hypothetically that VW are wrong, and they are not linked. For me, this is still a safety feature. It will only help if the GTi is ever in that position.
VW also tell us the R has a 4WD system that can send 100% to the rear!
In this case, they aren't wrong...just not giving the full story.
For the first time the GTI features XDS, an extention of the well known EDL function. This is linked to the ESP hydraulics and works by applying pressure to the inner front wheel during fast cornering to prevent spinning.
EDL works by monitoring front wheel speeds and applying pressure using the ABS pump, to the spinning wheel...it's fairly crude and only works under 30 MPH (I have it on my Mk3) and it uses the ABS Pump to operate the callipers, via the brake hydraulics.
ESP is a set of electronics that monitors inputs and sends outputs to the ABS controller to actually do the braking - the ASP has no physical connection with the car's hydraulic brake system that I'm aware of and hence there are no ESP hydraulics - only ABS hydraulics linked to ESP inputs - unless it's changed on the Mk6?
An explanation of ESP is here:
http://www.bosch-esperience.co.uk/uk/language1/how_does_esp_work.html
Note the bit about: "It uses the vehicle's braking system to "steer" the vehicle back on track."
The fact that VW tell us that XDS is advanced EDL give the game away to anyone who understands how EDL works.
Ok, VW are wrong, your right. What's more, you've kept face in the forum and you havent agreed that its still a safety feature and bypassed that altogether.
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Ok, VW are wrong, your right. What's more, you've kept face in the forum and you havent agreed that its still a safety feature and bypassed that altogether.
Normal service has resumed.
VW are clever how they word things...it's marketing bullsh!t designed to fool peiople that don't understand.
You don't understand how it works - despite a link to Bosch's website explaining - so you can't counter the argument...so resort to spitting the dummy.
You know Kev, you really do know a lot less then you seem to think.
ESP is a Safety Feature, like ABS.
EDL was sold as a traction control feature, as is XDS.
You don't need to be a genuis here Kev...just to go and find out how things work...there is no harm in not knowing everything...everyday is a school day.
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Ok, VW are wrong, your right. What's more, you've kept face in the forum and you havent agreed that its still a safety feature and bypassed that altogether.
Normal service has resumed.
VW are clever how they word things...it's marketing bullsh!t designed to fool peiople that don't understand.
You don't understand how it works - despite a link to Bosch's website explaining - so you can't counter the argument...so resort to spitting the dummy.
You know Kev, you really do know a lot less then you seem to think.
ESP is a Safety Feature, like ABS.
EDL was sold as a traction control feature, as is XDS.
You don't need to be a genuis here Kev...just to go and find out how things work...there is no harm in not knowing everything...everyday is a school day.
Honestly thats an amazing reply, completely put in my place, I dont have an answer for it, and I wish I had wrote that myself. And to top it all off, you'll look really cool to the others. If you dont, your defo cool to me.
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It doesn't matter how much you paid for the car, they all look the same after the wreck :grin:
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I dont have an answer for it,
Why don't I believe that?
And to top it all off, you'll look really cool to the others. If you dont, your defo cool to me.
I really couldn't care about looking cool...I don't care if you understand how it works, or not...but to try telling others how it works - incorrectly - isn't doing anyone any favours.
You call it what you want...Safety Feature, Traction Control feature...call it a Coffee maker for all I care.
But don't tell it as gospel, if it's wrong.
People can read up about XDS, ESP and ABS and come to their own conclusions.
Those of us who make their living in measurement/control understand how the systems interface.
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Ok, VW are wrong, your right. What's more, you've kept face in the forum and you havent agreed that its still a safety feature and bypassed that altogether.
Normal service has resumed.
VW are clever how they word things...it's marketing bullsh!t designed to fool peiople that don't understand.
You don't understand how it works - despite a link to Bosch's website explaining - so you can't counter the argument...so resort to spitting the dummy.
You know Kev, you really do know a lot less then you seem to think.
ESP is a Safety Feature, like ABS.
EDL was sold as a traction control feature, as is XDS.
You don't need to be a genuis here Kev...just to go and find out how things work...there is no harm in not knowing everything...everyday is a school day.
Honestly thats an amazing reply, completely put in my place, I dont have an answer for it, and I wish I had wrote that myself. And to top it all off, you'll look really cool to the others. If you dont, your defo cool to me.
Oh just one other thing, your driving your shopping car to your fav supermarket, merrily minding your business on your wives head as she tries to find your nob to sook it but she gives up, and as you look up you spot a 5 yo girl on the road.... now your doing maybe 60 or so, you break and turn to avoid her. It might not even be a little girl, it could be a tree, who cares.... so you've turned, and instead of XDS helping (notice how I said help, I never said its definately going to but it will help) you keep glued to the ground you skid and whack the girl or tree. Is XDS not giving you the extra bit of help to avoid that situation ? I know I dont know as much as I'd like to think I do, so I'm sure you'll pick what you need out of this paragraph to make another damning response, but don't, as I say, your cool.
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your driving your shopping car to your fav supermarket,
:grin:
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XDS aint gonna help you there pal!! :wink:
not unlesss you just want to hit the girl a little quicker and get it all over and done with for her faster :lipsrsealed: :evil:
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your driving your shopping car to your fav supermarket,
:grin:
I'm glad these little touches dont go un-noticed. :grin: :wink:
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XDS aint gonna help you there pal!! :wink:
not unlesss you just want to hit the girl a little quicker and get it all over and done with for her faster :lipsrsealed: :evil:
So XDS wont keep you planted on the ground better when cornering ?
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Oh just one other thing, your driving your shopping car to your fav supermarket, merrily minding your business on your wives head as she tries to find your nob to sook it but she gives up,
Hurah! Kev looses the moral high-ground AGAIN and resorts to petty insults as he's not capable of a more acceptable retort...anyway...you were saying?
and as you look up you spot a 5 yo girl on the road.... now your doing maybe 60 or so, you break and turn to avoid her. It might not even be a little girl, it could be a tree, who cares.... so you've turned, and instead of XDS helping (notice how I said help, I never said its definately going to but it will help) you keep glued to the ground you skid and whack the girl or tree. Is XDS not giving you the extra bit of help to avoid that situation ?
So I've braked...as in your example?
And have tried to swerve? Just as you say?
Then no, XDS is doing nothing as it's designed to stop wheelspin UNDER POWER. Even EDL is disconnected when you brake...
However, humouring you,...In that instance ESP takes over.
You are braking and trying to avoid...then it's ABS that stops the wheels from locking, allowing you to turn, and if you lock up and end up sidewards, it's ESP that will try to pull you straight by braking opposite callipers to the direction of 'skid'.
I know I dont know as much as I'd like to think I do, so I'm sure you'll pick what you need out of this paragraph to make another damning response, but don't, as I say, your cool.
Kev, then why don't you stop having a go at people (again) who are trying to explain things to you, in order that you understand better?
Arguing the toss when you are plainly incorrect and don't understand does nothing to make me look cool.
However, it does make you look a bit foolish.
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So XDS wont keep you planted on the ground better when cornering ?
NO!
It only stops you wasting power by wheelspinning...it can't help the car stay planted...only help it put the power down more efficiently.
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your driving your shopping car to your fav supermarket,
:grin:
I'm glad these little touches dont go un-noticed. :grin: :wink:
:grin: clocked that little dig straight away! its such a ridiculous comment to make about a GTI it always makes me laugh!
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Oh just one other thing, your driving your shopping car to your fav supermarket, merrily minding your business on your wives head as she tries to find your nob to sook it but she gives up,
Hurah! Kev looses the moral high-ground AGAIN and resorts to petty insults as he's not capable of a more acceptable retort...anyway...you were saying?
and as you look up you spot a 5 yo girl on the road.... now your doing maybe 60 or so, you break and turn to avoid her. It might not even be a little girl, it could be a tree, who cares.... so you've turned, and instead of XDS helping (notice how I said help, I never said its definately going to but it will help) you keep glued to the ground you skid and whack the girl or tree. Is XDS not giving you the extra bit of help to avoid that situation ?
So I've braked...as in your example?
And have tried to swerve? Just as you say?
Then no, XDS is doing nothing as it's designed to stop wheelspin UNDER POWER. Even EDL is disconnected when you brake...
However, humouring you,...In that instance ESP takes over.
You are braking and trying to avoid...then it's ABS that stops the wheels from locking, allowing you to turn, and if you lock up and end up sidewards, it's ESP that will try to pull you straight by braking opposite callipers to the direction of 'skid'.
I know I dont know as much as I'd like to think I do, so I'm sure you'll pick what you need out of this paragraph to make another damning response, but don't, as I say, your cool.
Kev, then why don't you stop having a go at people (again) who are trying to explain things to you, in order that you understand better?
Arguing the toss when you are plainly incorrect and don't understand does nothing to make me look cool.
However, it does make you look a bit foolish.
f**k sake dude, I keep setting myself up and you keep batting me out the ball park. You're on fire.
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:grin: clocked that little dig straight away! its such a ridiculous comment to make about a GTI it always makes me laugh!
So did I.
But you have to humour some people...
If I choose to go shopping in my GTI...then to me, it's a shopping car.
Surely that's the owners prerogative. No?
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So XDS wont keep you planted on the ground better when cornering ?
NO!
It only stops you wasting power by wheelspinning...it can't help the car stay planted...only help it put the power down more efficiently.
Ahhhh, so XDS doesnt help with traction, it doesnt help when cornering or response. See I'm learning something new every day, at this rate I'll have my dunce hat off in no time.
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f**k sake dude, I keep setting myself up and you keep batting me out the ball park. You're on fire.
It's not about scoring points Kev...
It's just that you have the systems mixed up as to what is capable of what. I'm not trying to be funny...but go look through Bosch's site and it explains how ABS, ESP and TCS (their Traction Control) all work and interface.
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:grin: clocked that little dig straight away! its such a ridiculous comment to make about a GTI it always makes me laugh!
So did I.
But you have to humour some people...
If I choose to go shopping in my GTI...then to me, it's a shopping car.
Surely that's the owners prerogative. No?
When I get my GTI I'll go round roundabouts with it, will it be a roundabout car ?
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:grin: clocked that little dig straight away! its such a ridiculous comment to make about a GTI it always makes me laugh!
So did I.
But you have to humour some people...
If I choose to go shopping in my GTI...then to me, it's a shopping car.
Surely that's the owners prerogative. No?
let's not start this again :grin:
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Ahhhh, so XDS doesnt help with traction, it doesnt help when cornering or response.
It helps when under power.
You know, when you put your right foot down on the right pedal?
Not when you brake and swerve as in your example...
But that didn't go your way...so you have to try some other form retort.
at this rate I'll have my dunce hat off in no time.
Rest assured...that day is a long way off.
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When I get my GTI I'll go round roundabouts with it, will it be a roundabout car ?
Boring. Like you.
I'm sorry, I forgot that a tweaked FWD Golf is the bestest drivers car in the whole wide world and worthy of true hypercar status, and should not - under ANY circumstances - EVER be used for doing such mundane tasks as fetching the shopping, or some of the cotton-wool wrapped owners with delusions of grandeur will get upset.
I think I've got it now. Silly me.
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I'm sorry, I forgot that a tweaked FWD Golf is the bestest drivers car in the whole wide world and worthy of true hypercar status, and should not - under ANY circumstances - EVER be used for doing such mundane tasks as fetching the shopping, or some of the cotton-wool wrapped owners with delusions of grandeur will get upset.
I think I've got it now. Silly me.
without harping back to a previous discussion, you're original point was that the GTI was a shopping car. not a car that you use for shopping, going to work, going to the football etc etc. you said it was just for shopping. which is why the discussion started!! :smiley:
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without harping back to a previous discussion, you're original point was that the GTI was a shopping car. not a car that you use for shopping, going to work, going to the football etc etc. you said it was just for shopping. which is why the discussion started!! :smiley:
But that's what I would use one for. Basic running about and shopping trips.
Not for going to work...or trackdays...just boring stuff - like fetching the shopping.
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without harping back to a previous discussion, you're original point was that the GTI was a shopping car. not a car that you use for shopping, going to work, going to the football etc etc. you said it was just for shopping. which is why the discussion started!! :smiley:
But that's what I would use one for. Basic running about and shopping trips.
Not for going to work...or trackdays...just boring stuff - like fetching the shopping.
so the GTI is a running about and shopping car. not just a shopping car as previously stated? anyways, we agreed that each to their own! :laugh:
but its still not a shopping car :laugh: :wink:
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so the GTI is a running about and shopping car. not just a shopping car as previously stated? anyways, we agreed that each to their own! :laugh:
Ahh...you've got me there.
I suppose I'd forgotten that running about between shopping centres/shops could be deemed as running about, not actual shopping.
I'll have to revise my view now.
but its still not a shopping car :laugh: :wink:
Oh yes it is...it's the bling-est shopping chariot in the car park!
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The GTi is completely versatile. It does whatever you want. It defies labels.
It's not a people-carrier, or a motor-home, but it seems to me it will do most other jobs quite competently.
Rolfe.
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When I get my GTI I'll go round roundabouts with it, will it be a roundabout car ?
Boring. Like you.
I'm sorry, I forgot that a tweaked FWD Golf is the bestest drivers car in the whole wide world and worthy of true hypercar status, and should not - under ANY circumstances - EVER be used for doing such mundane tasks as fetching the shopping, or some of the cotton-wool wrapped owners with delusions of grandeur will get upset.
I think I've got it now. Silly me.
You've gone and done it now, your past few responses have been very classy, factual and informative to a point. Then you do and post that ? What were you thinking.
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You've gone and done it now, your past few responses have been very classy, factual and informative to a point. Then you do and post that ? What were you thinking.
Ha! Pot? Kettle? black?
Have you remembered what you wrote over the last few pages?
Perhaps you should re-read before you point the finger at me. :rolleyes:
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i love this forum :grin:
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i love this forum :grin:
It's brilliant init. Got a mate next to me and one across the way asking whats been said now. :grin:
And its nearly time to head off from work, I get paid for this !! :grin:
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You've gone and done it now, your past few responses have been very classy, factual and informative to a point. Then you do and post that ? What were you thinking.
...besides, I was worried.
I thought you'd taken your ball and gone home in the huff.
There was only me and matchboy left...we had to do something to amuse ourselves.
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XDS aint gonna help you there pal!! :wink:
not unlesss you just want to hit the girl a little quicker and get it all over and done with for her faster :lipsrsealed: :evil:
So XDS wont keep you planted on the ground better when cornering ?
RTFM :drool: :grin:
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It's brilliant init. Got a mate next to me and one across the way asking whats been said now. :grin:
And its nearly time to head off from work, I get paid for this !! :grin:
You and me both...
Finished shift soon...then home for 3 weeks as of tomorrow morning!
I'll have to get my lappy fired up ASAP when I hit terra-firma to see what I've missed!
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RTFM :drool: :grin:
Ooh...sore one. Killer blow...
End of chat...thank you ladies and gentlemen...that's the end of the performance! :grin:
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It's brilliant init. Got a mate next to me and one across the way asking whats been said now. :grin:
And its nearly time to head off from work, I get paid for this !! :grin:
You and me both...
Finished shift soon...then home for 3 weeks as of tomorrow morning!
I'll have to get my lappy fired up ASAP when I hit terra-firma to see what I've missed!
Its cool I'll wait for you.
Shame you dont live near, we could have continued over a few beers.
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Although I love the banter, this thread was meant to discuss safety and the way we drive... I am not sure how the classification of the GTI is gonna help avoid a crash i.e. shopping car etc... So please keep it to topic, please...
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i love this forum :grin:
It's brilliant init. Got a mate next to me and one across the way asking whats been said now. :grin:
And its nearly time to head off from work, I get paid for this !! :grin:
me too :grin:
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RTFM :drool: :grin:
Ooh...sore one. Killer blow...
End of chat...thank you ladies and gentlemen...that's the end of the performance! :grin:
Nope, my one about your misses finding your willy was much better.
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RTFM :drool: :grin:
Ooh...sore one. Killer blow...
End of chat...thank you ladies and gentlemen...that's the end of the performance! :grin:
Nope, my one about your misses finding your willy was much better.
:grin: :grin: :grin:
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Its cool I'll wait for you.
Shame you dont live near, we could have continued over a few beers.
In wouldn't like to say whether you'd have a drink with me, or stab me.
I'd be worried. :undecided:
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Nope, my one about your misses finding your willy was much better.
Remaining dignified wherever possible I shall try to ignore your witty jibe.
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Its cool I'll wait for you.
Shame you dont live near, we could have continued over a few beers.
In wouldn't like to say whether you'd have a drink with me, or stab me.
I'd be worried. :undecided:
Hardly bud, you have a wrong impression of me if you think that. :tongue:
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Hardly bud, you have a wrong impression of me if you think that. :tongue:
Good man! :wink:
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Right time to head home, and I have tiling to do tonight :angry:
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You guys still here? :rolleyes:
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Not for much longer...
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Its cool I'll wait for you.
Shame you dont live near, we could have continued over a few beers.
In wouldn't like to say whether you'd have a drink with me, or stab me.
I'd be worried. :undecided:
Hardly bud, you have a wrong impression of me if you think that. :tongue:
i would like to think that Kev would use that time much more productively for something like torture etc :laugh:
Only joking kev... i know your only a nutter on the t'nternet :lipsrsealed:
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and rest... sure you will be back arguing again soon :grin:
almost 1k posts from vwkev and still no car?!
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and rest... sure you will be back arguing again soon :grin:
almost 1k posts from vwkev and still no car?!
Build week 39, which is this week. It's not coming soon enough. :sad:
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I seem to remember taxi drivers who regularly don't wear seatbelts will leave their seats with the belts clipped in but sit on top of the belt... presumably this is to get around the warning beep that most modern cars have?
that can't be comfortable. if they can get used to that discomfort, they might as well wear the thing properly!
I think they might put the bead seat cover over the top of it. I've noticed lots of taxi drivers seem to do it, something about they don't need to legally wear the belt in case they get jacked, he/she can get out quicker... or so I heard...
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Interesting crash tests video on the MK6... Looks like excellent cabin protection... very rigid... Shame is didnt do anything for the teenagers in Wolfsburg...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO6NynptJs8
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Wonder how much he'd sell his monza's for?
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^I noticed they came out of it quite well considering.
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^I noticed they came out of it quite well considering.
Lacquer will be chipped. Whiteworm'll get them :lipsrsealed:
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If ever a thread needed locking it's this one.
Joking about dead teenagers is not funny and very offensive.
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If ever a thread needed locking it's this one.
Joking about dead teenagers is not funny and very offensive.
I agree with you here. Its not a joke when these teenagers dies and we are making fun of them. But we must not forget that these teenagers asked to be killed travelling at 100km/h in suburban Wolfsburg without wearing safety belts... What is offensive is ppl in this forum making ridiculous and unwarranted remarks about those that are living...
I believe the purpose of this thread is to remind us that we are not immortals and we need to drive safely at all times...