Noise When Car is Cold

[Stub70]

Hi, fairly new to the group and first post.

I have a mk5 GTI and when cold i can hear a kind of squeeking noise which i have identified as coming from the top of cam belt area, if i put my ear to the top of the cam belt cover i can hear it. If i drive down the road i can hear it echoing off walls and other cars but by the time i drive 1/2 a mile its gone, i assume it is something heating up and possibly expending?
I took it to the dealers and they said a crank seal was leaking a bit of oil and that was getting onto the alternator belt, this seemed a likely cause as it could burn off the oil as i drive down the road. I had the seal and new belt put on but i can still hear the noise.
Has anyone else heard of anything like this?
I now GTI's can be noisy but this is definitely something different. Any help much appreciated.

[SteveP]

Firstly Hello & Welcome. 

I haven't experienced anything like this myself so can't realy help.

I am sure someone like TT will be along shortly to help.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Hi, fairly new to the group and first post.

A warm welcome to the forum. 

I have a mk5 GTI and when cold i can hear a kind of squeeking noise which i have identified as coming from the top of cam belt area, if i put my ear to the top of the cam belt cover i can hear it. If i drive down the road i can hear it echoing off walls and other cars but by the time i drive 1/2 a mile its gone, i assume it is something heating up and possibly expending?

How old is your car?  How many miles has it done?  And what is your three letter engine code (just the first three letters, sommat like AXX or BWA - I don't need the full six digit number)?

From what you describe, it sounds as though it could be either of two three things (or both!).  One of the problems could be the actual timing belt is either damaged or contaminated with oil.  The other issue could be one of the idler rollers, or even the tensioning roller - might have worn bearings.  Finally, your water pump could be starting to go t!ts up.  Either way, whichever one (or more) of those problems it may be, they are all inter-related.  So I would recommend getting the cam belt and its associated components checked out as a matter of urgency.  If the belt, rollers, water pump are all OK, then fine - but if any of them let go, you could be in for considerably expensive engine rebuild bills.

I took it to the dealers and they said a crank seal was leaking a bit of oil and that was getting onto the alternator belt, this seemed a likely cause as it could burn off the oil as i drive down the road. I had the seal and new belt put on but i can still hear the noise.

If the crank seal was leaking and contaminated the alternator belt, then it is extremely likely that the timing belt was also contaminated.  Did the stealer not check this?  Is your car still under warranty?

Has anyone else heard of anything like this?

Personnaly, no, not on the GTI.  However, on engines of similar design, it is not uncommon.  In fact, oil contamination is the leading cause of timing belt failure.

I now GTI's can be noisy but this is definitely something different. Any help much appreciated.

The two most common GTI noises are the rather loud fuel injectors (sound sort of "tappety" or some peeps report them sounding "diesely"), and the drive for the FSI high pressure fuel pump, located near the battery end of the cam cover, can also wear.

HTH, any more Qs, then post away and we will do our best to help. 

[Stub70]

Firstly, thank you very much for the replies.

It was registered Jan 2007 and has just over 16k on the clock. I'll look up the engine code and post soon as i get chance.
Initially i thought the stealer was talking about changing the timing belt as that was where the noise seemed to be coming from, but turns out its the alternator belt. I thought they may not want to change the timing belt due to it being an expensive job? I have seen what happens when a belt lets go so was hoping it would be changed, but not the case.
As far as i know they didn't check the timing belt, i did mention it as i thought that was what he was on about but he corrected me and said it was the alternator belt, as i say because its an expensive job they may be trying to get away with the minimum?

The problem is it only happens when cold, or more accurately the next morning, i moved it about 30 minutes ago and it has been parked at work all day, no noise. I do park it half on the road, half on the path so it is at an angle (if you know what i mean), wonder if that could contribute towards the problem?
I think i need to get them to come out and have a listen from cold, that or leave it with them overnight, problem with that is i won't be there to point it out.

Do you think its possible the rollers and/or water pump could have worn out in 16k miles?
Do you think i should question them not changing the timing belt?
Do you think that now they know about this problem that if the belt does let go they will be liable? Obviously i don't want that to happen because the engine will never be the same?

Many tanks for your help

[Teutonic_Tamer]

OK, 16k miles is way too short for a timing belt (and an alternator belt) to go south under normal conditions.  Only oil contamination, or other "mechanical" damage can shorten their lives to that dramatic level.  The same goes for all the idler rollers, tensioners and water pumps.

Are you the orginal owner from new?  If not, did you get an HPI check?  If you didn't, I would seriously recommend getting one, as something doesn't quite sound right.

And I'm shocked that the stealer did NOT check the timing belt when they had already positively identified an oil leak in that area.  However, again, something doesn't quite ring true.  Because if it was the front crank seal which had gone (again, highly unlikely for such a low mileage - and I have a theory), and was replaced, then the timing belt needs to be removed anyway! 

You said your car was registered Jan 2007 - but do you know when the car was actually built?  It could have been sitting as unsold at Grimsby docs or the likes for two years, and have rapidly deteriorated.  The model year is a starting point - the 10th digit of the VIN tells you this, and Wolfsburg model years run from sometime in July.

I certainly think more questions need to be asked of the stealer.  And if the belt does let go, then it will all be covered by the warranty, but that isn't the point.  Prevention is far better than a cure - and I would be far happier with the way Hungaria Motor kft build the engine, rather than a rebuild by a spotty YTS at your local stealer.

If you want to know your exact build date, then PM me with your full VIN, and I will check for you.  Please do NOT post your full VIN (or your reg number or engine number) in this or any other forums though. 

[Stub70]

Thanks for your reply and sorry for the delay in response, been on holiday. Did nearly 400 miles without missing a beat.

Checked oil and all looks good, was changed along with filter at 12k.

No, i'm not the owner from new, i bought it a couple of months ago with just over 15k on the clock. Usually i would get a HPI check but i bought it from VW Listers and they supplied the car to the previous owner. They tell me they HPI all their cars. Should i get my own check or trust them?

Going by your advice i took a better look and it is quite strange they didn't change the timing belt as surely oil would have got onto that before the alternator belt. I am going to go back to the stealers and ask where it was leaking and how come it got on the alternator belt and not the timing belt. I think i will have to leave it with them overnight so they can hear the car from cold.
As it was warranty work i stupidly didn't get a recept so i only have what they told me to go on, i suppose i was greatful they were sorting it. I will certainly ask more questions this time. Also interested in your theory?

I checked the 10th digit of the VIN and its 7 so i guess that means it was built in 2007? Does that sound right to you or do you still need to check the full VIN?

Yes i fully agree, prevention is better than cure and i don't think it would ever be the same engine.
Thanks

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Hi Stub70

If there was any doubt about the history, then I would be very inclined to get my own HPI check done.  If it were to throw up any concerns, yet the dealer had previously sold you it on the grounds that it was HPI "clear", then you would be fully entitled to a full refund.  That would be a blatant breach of consumer laws - "product not as described".  Trading Standards would also like to hear, and be able to advise further.

Regarding what work, exactly, was carried out - ask the dealer to provide full written evidence.  If they fail to do so, threaten them with the "Freedom of Information Act", and also seek help from Volkswagen UK Customer Services, though you will have to put your request formally in writing.

The tenth digit of the VIN simply confirms the "model year", and doesn't necessarilly match the actual "build dates".  For example, a 2007 model year may be manufactured from sometime in June 2006 through to around June 2007, with each of the different factories having slightly different change dates.

[Stub70]

Hi TT,

I took my car back to VW on Monday night and left it with them, they could then hear the noise the following morning. They replaced the timing belt and tensioners. This morning i couldn't hear the noise so it looks like a fix, i will investigate further at the weekend when i have time to stand and listen properly. I'll let you know the outcome.

I enquired about paperwork for the previous work they did and was told it was still with VW? Not sure about that, possibly VW disputing claim with dealer or dealer lost/didn't want to look for paperwork? I'm not overly bother about that but will ask again in a month or so.

Many thanks for your help on this i am truly grateful.

[KRL]

Hi,

I experienced the same issue on my A3 2.0 TFSI just over a year ago.

Here is the noise it was making on cold start up in the mornings:
http://media.putfile.com/20-TFSI-strange-engine-noise

I took the car to my local Audi dealer and they replaced the cam belt roller and tensioner under warranty.  Ever since then it has been fine and the problem has not returned.

[Stub70]

Hi KRL,

Sounds exactly the same as mine (did).