can yer tell what it is?

[RobGTI]

please, think about my question, too. I rely on your expertise.

questioning my expertise, gasp!

Well someones gotta stand up to yer - and Pesky is well out of your reach!   

I do have a question though TT, how noticable is the lag increase with the S3/twintercooler assembly? I would imagine negligible, as its not an overly substantial increase in volume to the 'charged' system.. but i've never driven one so I'm curious.

Hmmmm . . . TBH, can't say I've noticed any lag at all.  That is one of the real benfits of the K03 turbo.  Maybe it would be more noticeable on the larger K04s, which are alleged to suffer with a bit of lag anyway.

Thinking about this, I reckon I must have literally doubled by charged volume - as the S3 cooler alone is said to be 30% larger than the stock cooler.

I suppose the fact that the turbo is actually part of the exhaust manifold helps to improve the "responsiveness" of the blower, and as has already been said, it aint the "pressure", but the volume of air which counts for bigger bangs.

I am finding that there seems to be a bigger "push" mid range, and the push goes up to nigh-on the red line too.  With just the standard OEM cooler, it would run out of puff near the top end.

I'd still recommend getting both.  Though both aint cheap. 

Did you fit the coolers seperately or one at a time? What I'm trying to get at do you know which one gives best gains?

Both at the same time - so can't really say.  However, individually, the S3 cooler and the Forge cooler are both highly rated, and both give proven temp drops in their own rights.  However, each one also has its disavantges when used alone too - which is why I fitted both.

What are the diadvantages of either, I wasn't aware of any disadvantages over the stock item?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

please, think about my question, too. I rely on your expertise.

questioning my expertise, gasp!

Well someones gotta stand up to yer - and Pesky is well out of your reach!   

I do have a question though TT, how noticable is the lag increase with the S3/twintercooler assembly? I would imagine negligible, as its not an overly substantial increase in volume to the 'charged' system.. but i've never driven one so I'm curious.

Hmmmm . . . TBH, can't say I've noticed any lag at all.  That is one of the real benfits of the K03 turbo.  Maybe it would be more noticeable on the larger K04s, which are alleged to suffer with a bit of lag anyway.

Thinking about this, I reckon I must have literally doubled by charged volume - as the S3 cooler alone is said to be 30% larger than the stock cooler.

I suppose the fact that the turbo is actually part of the exhaust manifold helps to improve the "responsiveness" of the blower, and as has already been said, it aint the "pressure", but the volume of air which counts for bigger bangs.

I am finding that there seems to be a bigger "push" mid range, and the push goes up to nigh-on the red line too.  With just the standard OEM cooler, it would run out of puff near the top end.

I'd still recommend getting both.  Though both aint cheap. 

Did you fit the coolers seperately or one at a time? What I'm trying to get at do you know which one gives best gains?

Both at the same time - so can't really say.  However, individually, the S3 cooler and the Forge cooler are both highly rated, and both give proven temp drops in their own rights.  However, each one also has its disavantges when used alone too - which is why I fitted both.

What are the diadvantages of either, I wasn't aware of any disadvantages over the stock item?

Any chance you can use the search function, as I am a bit busy?    If you use the 'advanced search', limit it to the Mk5 boards, and include my username, you should quickly find the answers.   

[RobGTI]

Ok after reading this mamouth thread

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=93677.msg779715#msg779715

Can I summise that the differences are primarily:

1). S3 Cooler is more effected by air con and rad heat due to siting.
2). Labour to install Forge is significantly less / cheaper if paying than S3 item.
3). Both have are an improvement over the standard item, although technically the Forge one should show more of an improvement in some instances due to its positioning, although this has not been quantifed?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Ok after reading this mamouth thread

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=93677.msg779715#msg779715

Can I summise that the differences are primarily:

1). S3 Cooler is more effected by air con and rad heat due to siting.

Yup, and its performance will 'tail off' more as outside ambient air temps increase (and the standard cooler will be even more prone to these tail-offs).  The Forge is not affected by these issues.

2). Labour to install Forge is significantly less / cheaper if paying than S3 item.

Yup, but for the cost of the parts, the Forge is significantly more.

Also, the S3 cooler retains the "OEM" look, whereas the Forge is obviously 'afermarket'.

3). Both have are an improvement over the standard item, although technically the Forge one should show more of an improvement in some instances due to its positioning, although this has not been quantifed?

Yes and no.  Either an S3 cooler, or a Forge cooler are both improvements over the standard cooler, and I think both have been 'quantified'.  But both coolers together not only offer a 'cumulative' improvement, but they both help cancel out the 'weak points' of the other.


One final improvement which seems to have been overlooked, is the turbo.  Both (either on their own or together) should help improve turbo life, and should also help to maintain peak boost.

[bacillus]

One final improvement which seems to have been overlooked, is the turbo.  Both (either on their own or together) should help improve turbo life, and should also help to maintain peak boost.

Wonder if RR is taking this in...   

[Teutonic_Tamer]

One final improvement which seems to have been overlooked, is the turbo.  Both (either on their own or together) should help improve turbo life, and should also help to maintain peak boost.

Wonder if RR is taking this in...   

We did previously try to explain all the benefits of an uprated intercooler, of whatever flavour, but he was blinded by peeps like JKM stating that the standard i/c was more than adequate! 

[RobGTI]

TT,

Ok the responces to all 3 points make sense but the last point you make about the cancelling the "weak points" of each other; I can see what these are for the S3 item but apart from aesthetic and financial ones for the Forge item what are its weak points?

Also I agree wholeheartedly about your point in the monster thread about the S3 v Forge you may get more return for it at re-sale time as its easier to take off and re-sell compared to the lower value S3 item which most would leave on the car. This has just about swung it for me on which one to get.

Also from that thread can I assume purely in terms of performance the ko3 car will fell more benefit behind the wheel as it helps fix one of its big downfalls, breathless top end??

[Teutonic_Tamer]

TT,

Ok the responces to all 3 points make sense but the last point you make about the cancelling the "weak points" of each other; I can see what these are for the S3 item but apart from aesthetic and financial ones for the Forge item what are its weak points?

OK, it is a while since that last thread, so forgive me if I'm a bit forgetful.

So, the Forge 'weak points':
a/ it is efing expensive,
b/ it is not OEM and
c/ it is heavy

The Forge 'advantages':
a/ it provides a substantial increase in cooled area and volume (irrespective of what is sitting next to the rad)
b/ it isn't affected heat from the engine coolant rad
c/ its performance wont drop off if you use the air con

So when I said that 'one cancels out the other' - well yes, for some points, but not all.  For example, both the S3 cooler and the Forge are both heavier than stock - so whilst you are gaining some extra weight from either or both - the 'performance' increases should more than counter the extra lard.  One good thing about the Forge is that the weight is very low down - effectively just the bottom third of the total height of the stock i/c mount.

Also from that thread can I assume purely in terms of performance the ko3 car will fell more benefit behind the wheel as it helps fix one of its big downfalls, breathless top end??

Ahhhh, there are at least two separate benefits of upgrading the i/c:

a/ lower temperatures of charged air (benefits equal across the different motors)
b/ reduced internal resistance (all will benefit, but probably the K03 will benefit most near the red line)
c/ increased volume of charged air, so less 'cycling' of cut off valve due to slightly lower boost pressure, and turbo will be 'in spool' more consistently (all will benefit)

So, yes, the K03 does feel much, much freer at the top end.

And the slight drop in boost pressure does not make it more laggy either - it is all about CFMs. 

[RobGTI]

Thanks, a very thorough answer.

I notice that Forge don't list the black version, I take it you painted your yourself?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Thanks, a very thorough answer.

I notice that Forge don't list the black version, I take it you painted your yourself?

You have to ask them to paint - if you deal direct with Forge, speak to Russell.  They will warn you that they wont warranty the paint finish, so as long as you understand that, they will paint it before despatch for an extra £20.  Both myself and Hurdy have the Forge, and have it painted black, and the paint seems to be holding up fine.  What price have you been quoted BTW?