Should I try a DSG first ?

[ub7rm]

I have the manual GTI and this is what I was looking for since I thought an 'automatic' was for old / lazy people.  However after a few weeks of ownership I've come to realise that when you put your foot down you can very very quickly end up in the red revs zone and you do loose a bit of time changing gears - the 2.0T is much more free revving that the old 1.8T.  Feels like you've barely changed before its time to change again.  So if I was choosing again I would deff give the DSG some serious consideration as from all accounts the lightning gear changes of the DSG suit the free revving nature of the engine.

That said the manual box is no dissapointment....

[Soundlab]

Well, I drove one today, an '05 with DSG - but no paddles.

I spent around 40 minutes with the car...driving on open roads and through busy traffic in the town centre.  I tried D, S and manual modes.  The gearbox has to be one of the best pieces of technology to come to the car.  I put it into D as I left the garage and gently cruised up the road.  To look down and find I was already in 6th was quite shocking - as I didn't feel ANY gearchanges...not in the slightest.  The only way I knew I was in 6th was because the display told me so.  In auto mode, this has to be the most exceptional auto to date.

In S mode, I don't know if the box had an issue or not, but cruising at 30mph it wanted to stay in 2nd !  We knocked it back into D - at which point it went up to 6th, knocked it back into S and it was staying in 3rd.  Seemed a bit weird to me.

Manual mode ... using the stick for manual mode kept catching me out.  I had no problem with when to change gear, this was fine.  The issue was that I wanted to pull on the stick to shift up and push on the stick to shift down (in my head this just seems more sensible).  So, I kept having to think about my changes - and a couple of times in traffic I got it the wrong way around.

Overall though, I have to say, I prefer the feel of manual.  I know it was only 40 minutes behind the wheel, but even in manual -> using the stick, I still felt separated from the car, and it kind of reduced my opinion of the car overall.  There was far less sense of occassion compared to when I drove the manual, and I did come away feeling quite disappointed in the car. 

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind at all that DSG gearboxes will be everywhere soon, but at this stage they are not for me.  I need manual - even if it does mean I take fractionally longer to get to 60 !   

Also, today was the first time I realised just how much of the Skyline performance I will miss.  There's no doubt that the GTI is a great performer and picks up speed well, but it truely is never going to be a match for my current car.  I'm REALLY going to have to get used to that when I finally make the cross-over.

[Top Cat]

Nice write up Soundlab.Although difficult not to, you really shouldn't compare your Skyline with the GTI. Remember it's only a hot hatch you have to compare it against other car's in it's class to gauge what your getting.
In relation to the test drive it take's a few week's really to fully understand all of the different way's you can use the gear box. S-mode will keep it in the gear that give's you maximum power at that given time. It is not practical to use unless your on a rally stage or have the paddles to change up when it's appropiate, ie out on a fast drive and come up to a village just go up through the gears get past the village and floor it.

[neg]

Paddles are definatley worth having, I hardly ever use S mode.

[Soundlab]

Nice write up Soundlab.Although difficult not to, you really shouldn't compare your Skyline with the GTI. Remember it's only a hot hatch you have to compare it against other car's in it's class to gauge what your getting.

I agree totally, and of all the performance hatches out there - it is the only one that interests me.  I like the cross between practicality, performance and style.  It truely is the best all round package.

I do think I'll miss the complete raw power of the Skyline - and I guess that's what I was trying to say.  At the same time though, there is rarely an opportunity to stretch the Skylines legs (not for where I tend to drive anyway).  It really is just starting to get going when you hit triple figures - and that's already well into license threatening speeds !  In all honesty, the Golf will be far more practical and still fun, and that's why I'm doing it.

I will definitely be getting it REVO'd though  

[neg]

A dash of Revo just gives us that want it that little bit more and makes a good all rounder a great all rounder.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I wish I could lay my hands on or remember the info details but it was saying that the DSG box is essentially the same as the Manual gearbox except for having two clutches and a control module.

Yup!  To be really pedantic, it is actually two manual gearboxes contained in one gearbox housing.  And it has two motorcycle-type wet multi-plate clutches, whereas a conventional manual has a single plate dry clutch, and a conventional auto has a torque convertor fluid flywheel.

The mechatronics control modules are now common on most modern auto boxes, along with the Vauxhall/Opel Easytronic gearbox, and stuff like the BMW SMG.

The important thing is to do regular maintenance and change the DSG oil+filter as recommended. The box has so many self-protective safeguards against misuse.

Yep, and if you have had a remap, or like to make use of the launch control or drag strips, then think about halving the DSG fluid change interval.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

no one has mentioned the best feature. 

   

Ohh, yours must be posher than mine, 'cause mine farts! 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Out of interest, how does the 'box handle changing up or down 2 or 3 gears in one step in each of the modes.

For example, if gently cruising at 30mph in 6th you want to change down to 3rd to overtake, how does the 'box react in each of the modes (D, S and manual) ?

I'm guessing it's a little slower than when just moving through the gears normally.

....It's one of the things I first tested when starting to use the paddles. Any number of shifts is handled immediately: click > click > click > click, but watch you don't shift her into 1st gear!! Same on the way up the box but it's not a good way to drive as you're not using suitable revs. Great in an emergency though.

In view of Top Cat's post below I best add that I was referring to what happens when staying in M-mode and only using the paddles.

Hmmmm.  That is not quite correct - and there was a TSB released to "address" such concerns.

In manual mode (and manual over-ride), the "command" changes are all sequential - ie, all the shifts requested by the driver via the paddles or floor shift lever - are all concurrent such as 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 5 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 1.  Using the paddles or floor shifter in manual mode will not allow any "skipped" changes.  Furthermore, only those commands which are deemed safe by the ECU are actioned - so if you were travelling at 70mph in 6th gear, and then clicked the minus paddle 5 times (or more), the gearbox will NOT shift into 1st gear, or even 2nd.  This is part of the "fail safe" mechanism, and works the same way as going up the gearbox.  If you happen to be travelling at less than 31mph, then the box will not shift into 6th, no matter how many times you work the plus paddle.

However, in either D or S mode, the box can carry out "normal" shifts in either a sequential manner, or by skipping one or more intermediate ratios.  For example, if you are travelling in D mode at 40mph on a light throttle, and see an overtake opportunity - if you press the accelerator, but not activating the kick-down, the box can change from 6th to 3rd, completely missing out 5th and 4th.  In this manner, the auto modes can offer faster downshifts than can be achieved in manual mode.

Naturally, irrespective of which mode is selected, if you activate the kick-down, then the box will immediately select the lowest possible permitted ratio, completely skipping any intermediate ratios.  It won't pass Go, and it certainly won't collect its £200 on the way! 

Another superb function, which few people seem to be aware of - is that the DSG uses an "intelligent" kick-down function, whereby the kick-down will self cancel within a reasonably quick timescale.

[Top Cat]

^^^^^^^ All good info cheer's TT it's a complex piece of kit a bit like the author of the last post.