Engine conversion for my 1.8 8V GTi

[Diamond Hell]

I would like to still make the car as light as possible

So why aren't you considering a 2.0 16V ABF out of a Seat Toledo or similar?

150bhp as standard and a light sprinkling of cash will see rather more than that, without the aggravation of worrying about G-Lader rebuilds, intercoolers and all the other stuff that forced induction motors demand, all of which means more performance-blunting weight. Don't go junking the ABF management and going K-jet 'cos it's easy' - that misses the point of the electronic management which will save you fuel and improve performance (and tune-ability).

As you're running 8V at the moment go hunt out an end of life (through corrosion) Toledo 16V and drop the front subframe with the wishbones et al (it's all Golf2 stuff).  You will get 280mm front brakes as well as the ABF and cable-change 'box (with a cable clutch that hooks right up).  You WILL need to sort out the loom, but if you find the right person that's not difficult (it's happening in my workshop in Bristol at the moment).

It would be my opinion that if you want to keep the fun concentrate on losing the weight and getting a pokey NA motor under the bonnet.  If you look somewhere like Northloop (Nurburgring enthusiasts) you'll see a lot of people with hot Golf2s running ABF motors, NOT G-Laders and 1.8Ts (or pig-iron VR6s).  They're the guys turning in the most hot laps and probably having the most fun (and probably spending the least on repairs and maintenance, actually).

Go away from the weight and complexity, go towards the lightness and simplicity - you'll enjoy the car more, as you'll be driving it more.

[VeeDubGTI16v]

nothing wrong with kjet! its been proven up to 200bhp and is easier and cheaper to tune because you dont need to remap anything, its all done with an allen key

how come in the mk3 it makes 150bhp and in a mk2 on kjet they usually see 165bhp

[Dolly]

quick list of the top of my head for the G60

Engine + ancillarys

Charger + boost pipes, if planning on FMIC then easiest way is to get hold of a rallye outlet

G60 rad from corrado or a mk2 1.3 rad ( outlet and inlet need to be on the N/S)

O2O 8v box can be bolted on but i thnk you use 16v clutch parts?

if you go G60 02A you will need... a passat gearshift with cables. then either a hydraluic type pedal box from a corrado ect or the adapter to use a cable i got mine from strictly dubs

a mk2 golf 1.3 speedo drive if you go to O2A

exhaust using the G60 manifold then i think you need 16v downpipe. i got a 4 branch TSR manifold though

and of course the engine wiring loom andecu

8v subframe, driveshafts, steering, engine mounts ect all the same but i chose to use G60 engine mounts on box and engine rear, engine front mount i went solid.

[Dolly]

heres mine

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=64574.0

[Diamond Hell]

nothing wrong with kjet!

There's a lot wrong with K-jet.  It's a very simple mechanical system, as primitive as a carb, basically.  On the up-side this means it doesn't go wrong very much.  On the downsides it means that if it goes out of tune and runs lean your iginition won't retard as there are no knock sensors and you'll hole a piston.  To set it up properly also needs expensive CO analysing equipment.

is easier and cheaper to tune because you dont need to remap anything, its all done with an allen key

The allen key only sets the mixture.  It doesn't map the ignition and fueling all over the rev-range.  As you turn up the wick K-jet will not deliver the quality running of a good electronic mapping system.

The ABF 'only' makes 150bhp as it's running cooler cams, plus a cat.  Take off the cat as it's not needed (in a Golf2), put in a pair of more aggressive KR cams, bolt up a tubular manifold, map it to suit and it'll look after itself much better than a K-Jet motor (i.e. save you killing the motor) and deliver more power across a wider rev-range.

K-jet is stupid, limited and well past it's sell-by date.

Still, at least it's cheap.

[VeeDubGTI16v]

kr and abf cams are virtually identical (you are thinking of the 9a cams), so basically its because of the cat, so does that lose 15bhp? nope.

you say the co analyser is expensive, but you can go to a garage and use theirs for 10 mins, compared to the cost of a custom remap on your system, which if i remember right, the initial maps usually cost circa £400? or you could also set it yourself at home by trial and error with an allen key, a bag and a zip tie. the fuel pressure is also adjustable via an allen key.

not to mention k-jet is more responsive as its mechanical, and mine (all 4 of them) have never slipped out of tune. im assuming your making the piston holing story up, i have never heard of that!

The allen key only sets the mixture.  It doesn't map the ignition and fueling all over the rev-range.  As you turn up the wick K-jet will not deliver the quality running of a good electronic mapping system.

yep, the only drawback of k-jet, but looking at the big picture your complaining about a tiny loss in power.

[Dolly]

how much wiring is involed in fitting an ABF? if ever i stack my ibiza and the engine survies id be tempted to put it into a mk2 

[Diamond Hell]

im assuming your making the piston holing story up

Errrrrr, no that was on a T25 GTI conversion, which ran very well until holing a piston at Guildford after Dubfreeze four years ago - this was because it ran lean.

I'll have to assume you're making the 165bhp up as well as the output specified for a KR is 139bhp.

Both engines can be tuned, and an ABF will respond just as well as a KR, with more to come from clever electronics, so try and compare apples with apples, rather than throwing in a banana.

There's bucketloads of tuning stuff available for the ABF, which will poke it further past the KR in torque and power.

There's also a lot more chance of finding a sound ABF complete with the electronics in a Toledo or Golf3, too.  They're younger.

K-jet has been around for a long time, but you'll notice manufacturers haven't been using it since about '93 when emissions controls became tighter, limping on until about '95 as KE-Jet which is just plain nasty.

compared to the cost of a custom remap on your system, which if i remember right, the initial maps usually cost circa £400?

Funny, we've got a Megasquirt ECU here, so once you've bought that you can play with the maps as much as you want - it's open source and free.  Start with a base map and work it up from there on the road with a laptop.

Like I said K-Jet is stupid.  It's also for people who get The Fear when presented with a wiring diagram.

If anyone wants more information about ABFs and their management drop me a PM.....

[VeeDubGTI16v]

stick to the same argument mate, noone mentioned kr, its abf on kjet vs abf on the electronic management it comes with (i cant remember what its called). megasquirt is also a different argument. i dont get the fear over electronics either. i know the abf is better than the kr, thats why i put one in my golf

the 165 i quoted was the average most people get when they set their abf running on kjet up, i think the best out of a standard abf on kjet is 171bhp, FACT not made up.

so one car blowing its pistons means they all do it?

have you also noticed that emission friendly cars are outperformed by non emission friendly cars ?(like for like before you get pedantic!) thats why it was stopped being used, not because other systems were offering better performance. and who gives a flying f**k about the environment.

face it kjet is more performance oriented than these digifant variants.

as you said megasquirt is better than both , but thats not the argument you put forward 

[Diamond Hell]

Rant, snort, puff, growl

Errr ABFs run Motronic out of the box, not Digifant (fact, innit) and Motronic is better than Megasquirt, in many ways.

Anyway, there, there - you stick with your big flappy plate-meter in the way of the airflow.  We'll go for nice free-flowing throttlebodies on Motronic.

K-Jet is out-moded and out-performed by standard ABF Motronic management.  Adding a £40 Fleabay chip that tells the Motronic to ignore the emissions niceties at the top of the rev-range and make it slightly richer will give you a far more tractable motor further down the rev range and one that'll keep going up the rev-range after the K-Jet has run out of puff due to the large obstruction in the way of the airflow.  It will also not drink as much fuel, which in a daily driver is a significant factor these days.

I'll have to get a dyno print from the ABF that's currently getting wired up about 3 metres away from me.  Should be only a couple of weeks away, but then we can have a proper cock-waving competition.

All this ranting still hasn't put me off recommending an ABF running standard management to the original poster, although if I'm honest, as he's an Evo guy I'd recommend finding a Golf Syncro and playing with that, as he'll keep the 4WD goodness he knows from the Evo, but in a lighter, more compact vehicle.