Real output at the wheels.

[Horney]

I'm not sure what point that website is trying to get across, they're comparing measured wheel power with manufacturer's quoted flywheel power, which will only confuse people who don't understand transmission losses Especially when 4wd comes into the equation.

What he said ^^^^^

Nick

[ourtess]

Funny how the AUDI S3 has zero loss whilst the RS4 looses 85 bhp.
It's a great website for debunking.

[john_o]

I'm not sure what point that website is trying to get across, they're comparing measured wheel power with manufacturer's quoted flywheel power, which will only confuse people who don't understand transmission losses Especially when 4wd comes into the equation.

Indeed and its made even more complicated by the fact its a hub dyno
You can have @ the wheels from a normal brake dyno  (includes losses to tyres , variations from slippage etc)
but in this case its @ the wheels (i.e. hubs) so the tyre losses/problems are removed , so the wheel figure should be greater.

Check out http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/ and the technical articles.
Although remember for a hub dyno (no wheels) the calculations no longer hold!

S3 vs S4 , are they the same diff setup? , do they shift power differently? , was it measured at 4 hubs or 2  etc...
[In fact looking at site I can see it measured via all 4 wheels.]
[And the S3 looks to have only been run in 2wd mode , no rear pickup in picture I can see.]

[ourtess]

Do not overestimate the power of the.....ED30!

[Hurdy]

I love these type of discussions, mainly due to the fact that they are based on readings that we have never seen, from companies who we don't know all the information about.

I have always gone by the reasoning that it is better to compare like with like on one day in a rolling road shootout, or on the standing qtr or track. It is the only way to debunk spurious claims and prove your cars outputs (and in certain cases your driving skills )

[gazbutmk5gti]

I'm not sure what point that website is trying to get across, they're comparing measured wheel power with manufacturer's quoted flywheel power, which will only confuse people who don't understand transmission losses Especially when 4wd comes into the equation.

Indeed and its made even more complicated by the fact its a hub dyno
You can have @ the wheels from a normal brake dyno  (includes losses to tyres , variations from slippage etc)
but in this case its @ the wheels (i.e. hubs) so the tyre losses/problems are removed , so the wheel figure should be greater.

Check out http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/ and the technical articles.
Although remember for a hub dyno (no wheels) the calculations no longer hold!

S3 vs S4 , are they the same diff setup? , do they shift power differently? , was it measured at 4 hubs or 2  etc...
[In fact looking at site I can see it measured via all 4 wheels.]
[And the S3 looks to have only been run in 2wd mode , no rear pickup in picture I can see.]

S3 and S4 4WD set-ups are totally different, S3 has haldex, S4 has torsion set-up

[SteveS]

I love these type of discussions, mainly due to the fact that they are based on readings that we have never seen, from companies who we don't know all the information about.

I have always gone by the reasoning that it is better to compare like with like on one day in a rolling road shootout, or on the standing qtr or track. It is the only way to debunk spurious claims and prove your cars outputs (and in certain cases your driving skills )

the rototest bolts strait onto your hub, even the wheels they say can offect the output, weight, size, tire presure all offect it. the transmission is a roughly educated guess loss.

i got 224 at the hubs, which is only3bhp less than the 227 stated. so we know that at my flywheel it will be doing more, we know it loses more than 3bhp. still we can only add on the estimated guess of transmission loss to get our flywheel figure.

[Peskarik]

The Swedish Rototest is well known agency (in Sweden, at least). All car magazines and shows in Sweden use Rototest's data. (How do I know? Because I lived in Sweden for 14 years, Stockholm is the place I call HOME....and the Nothern Venice - St.Petersburg)
                                         

[R32UK]

Also, check R32. It has nothing on E30, powerwise! 

The R32 does get alot faster with more miles on the clock. This becomes very noticable esp after the 5-6k mark.