just taken my dads carrera 4s

[RandomJord]

Nice. This could get interesting 

Or it could get really really boring...lol

What do you mean could?

[08micsta]

It could get interesting because I have the feeling that John-O is gonna come. MAke a few comments. Im gonna be called a liar most probably. Chaos will ensue.

And in the end of it all it will probably boil down to what skills the driver has...

Thats why it could 

[R32UK]

Its simply true that some cars feel alot faster than others. i think my brothers Gttdi feels faster than the R32.... but I know its sure as hell aint!! Not by a long shot. This could simply come down to power delivery.. and the way the car feels when you start to hit serious speeds. In my old C2 120 felt like warp speed 9 in the R I sometimes find myself doing that without realising

How agressive the gear change is also adds to the speed thru the gears and the way the car jolts forward and the rear dips when the power is poured on.

My mate has a C2S and has said many a time he was being followed by an R32 and he simply couldnt get away from it until he was pushing more than double the speed limit. Thats was on the motorway but has found the same on most roads... He keeps well away from R32's now

[john_o]

John-o, as a previous owner of E46 M3 would you care to comment? I find it hard to believe that loaded FWD GTI would be on par with RWD M3 that has more torques, more horsies, better steering and handling....   

you guys we are all friends ! (well some of us lol)

2 entirely different cars, 2 very diff power deliveries. 2 very different classes of car (25k vs originally 45k+)
And yes Micsta driver differences are prob the biggest variable.

std GTI no chance , ED30 nope , modified ED30 vs E46 M3 would be reasonably close I reckon.
The golf hits hard early , whereas an M3 just goes on and on.....

However in bends my ED30 wouldnt even get near my M3 for corner speed.
GTI handling is good but the limits are so much lower. (although an M3 can understeer badly if you drive it in a certain way!)

GTI is great , M3 is great , both in very different ways.
GTI is ultimately a compromise , M3 is not and as a driving experience when 'pushing on' the 'feel' is sublime.

Its also clear however that cars that were 'fast' 5 or 10 years ago are no longer unassailable in a hot hatch.

If I had the choice  I'd buy an M3 CSL tommorrow as an even more distilled version of the M3.

I love my ED30 , but I always hanker back to an M3 which says it all really  

[08micsta]

Nice right up John-o

So the M3 should kick a Gti off the road. Then Im left to three conclusions:

1. The driver of the M3 was a useless driver and underused what power the M3 has.
2. My dad is the ultimate driver 
3. It was not a M3?? Maybe a chavvy 320 with a M3 bodykit, rims and badges???

I am gonna go with number one.
Does that sound about fair?

Mike

[john_o]

cheers!
Could be a combination of all 3 !
something as simple as poor set of tyres on the M3 could easily level the playing field  = no confidence = GTI wins
Too many variables but ultimately yes Id say an M3 should be faster (esp if you were 3 up! + xxx kg?)

forgot to mention , a friend of mine also has an M3 conv , so we will have a play before and after my remap for a definitive answer lol

[yan355]

Hi guys

just back from the comparison - feels like one of the david v goliath tests from evo etc

Dry conditions car reads 5 degrees C V quiet country roads. Ive lots of experience driving 993 Turbo C4S, 996 TURBO AND C4s and quite a bit 997 C2S. Both of us very similar standard of driving reasonably good but realistic not to push beyong our capabilities and the safety of others ie driving like numptys when other people are using the same road which were fortunate living near some great unused country roads.

From a standing start absolutely no contest C2S eats the golf alive many car lengths ahead by 100. Main problem is the traction with the remap on. At first the 911 shoots away and you think bloody hell im going nowwhere after that the 911 advance slows quite a bit until after 100 when it really shows another level and is off again. I think the golf speedo is a bit out as it feels more of a difference than 8-10mph as per my benchmark

Likewise my E46 M3 would have eaten the golf from stanstill as per John-o comments. Im the other way though apart from the engine which is sensational I never enjoyed mine that much and it was the most unreliable car ive ever owned 9 trips to dealer for warranty work in 18months. I much prefer the Gti and wouldnt have another standard one althought the noise of the CSL is worth the money in itself.

From a 2nd gear rolling start though the 911s advantage is a lot less clear. Still pulls away but not as dramatically as above roughly 3-5 car lengths by 100

Where it is quite even is on  the move in 3rd/4th/5th in sweeping bends, tighter corners, short burst and medium straights the 911 cant really get away much at all and almost no chance of getting past. Here the Gti can stick with the 911 and feels absolutely brilliant. Where the chances to pass are, it would  come down to the difference in braking which is pretty monumental. The 911's are just in a different league and the golf struggles in comparison.

The other area is body control upto 80-90 the golf is fine - any faster on the sweepers and again the 911 shows an altogehter superior poise where the upright golf starts to struggle quite a bit.

My conclusion after this is 911 quite a bit faster and far superior car but in the right circumstances the Golf could give a 997 a fright for a few miles. Taking into account my pal paid 55k for his I paid 17.9k for mine the Golf wins in delivering massive bang for your bucks and is also bleeding billiant. After driving mine with remap on my pal got out v impressed and this from someone who doesnt like golfs.

Theres my tenpeneth

Cheers

Yanek

[Peskarik]

My mate has a C2S and has said many a time he was being followed by an R32 and he simply couldnt get away from it until he was pushing more than double the speed limit. Thats was on the motorway but has found the same on most roads... He keeps well away from R32's now

bollocks

C2S has more power and fatter tires....

[jonathonturner]

right then..i'm still amused..

a golf gti or a golf r32 will not keep up witha e46 m3 or a 997 carrera 2s.

on windy roads the biggest influence is driver ability, but same driver in each car, the m3 and the porsche will win.

these are facts.

i love my golf to bits, but its a 20k hot hatch, it is not and never will be compared to the like of an e46 m3 or 997 ( any version) in terms of performance and drivability...

i have owned some of the finest cars available over the last 5 years(SL55, dms tuned rs6, 997 turbo, e60 M5, 2 x e46 m3's and a csl) and whilst the golf is the best all round car ( to include dynamics/handling/comfort/practicality/value for money etc)  that i have ever owned in the real world, i am very realistic in its short comings...

[Horney]

Pah M3 CSL's ain't all that, this one can't even shake a metro let alone a MKV Gti.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TXPMV8wyxRs

Nick