I need you help guys/gals... the wife wants a Leon FR!!! (It has to be a GTI!!)

[illyun]

i see the new EVO X is now coming with an SST gearbox with adjustable ferocity!  , which is yes youve guess'ed the DSG!!!, nice to see this is becoming more popular, and wave good bye to the old clutch!  

I read te review today... but only 280bhp in an Evo?    I thought it was going to be something like 340bhp?  Still, torque is approx 420nm   

[speedynz]

....I can't believe that no-one (unless I missed it) has pointed out the biggest 'gun' of all in persuading her to go for a GTI over a Leon FR......DSG !!!!

Or is DSG a Leon option?

According to What car the auto is an option...don't know if it is the DSG though

Yes the Leon comes with DSG, the flappy paddles and all. I drove the Leon DSG and the A3 DSG when looking and it was the same twin clutch affair with lightening fast changes. The is also the launch control as well according to the boys and girls on the Seat forums.

Despite being quicker I still wanted the manual to feel more involved with the driving process.

Good on ya Rob,

The DSG now appears to be the default choice and it's difficult to argue with the technology and execution but if it's real involvement you're after then manual changing beats DSG hands down.

[RobGTI]

Is it just me or does the majority of people here not realise that there are cars better than the GTI?
I know its a GTI forum so there are bound to be biased opinions. But for some people its not what you want, but relistically what you can afford, ie value for money. In this case the FR which is mechanically 95% identical to the GTI yet shaving 4k of its list price is strong enough to persuade some people. So why i ask must we b!tch about other cars which share similar components just because one has a VW badge the other a Seat?
What happens when we move up to an S3 or S4 or maybe RS4, do we then slag of the greatness of the GTI then?

Humans are 98% the same DNA-wise as a chimpanzee.....I prefer being human

Seriously though, whether you choose a Leon FR, Skoda Octavia RS, VW GTI or an A3 2.0 TFSI then you are getting what you pay for. If it is the nuts and bolts you are bothered about then the Skoda suits. If it is the original GTI you are after then it has to be the Golf. If you are after a badge then subjectively you would choose the Audi.
  The applications and target demographics overlap, but each one has its own refinements and for me the GTI is the one I would choose. Obviously I am biased, but if you drove all of them down the road then only the Golf would stand out of the crowd. The GTI is classless and an icon, but I doubt that your wife would subscibe to any of this. Residuals on any new car are poor in the short term, however over 3 years or more the GTI will hold on to 50% of it's original value and the Leon is projected 46-48% retained value. Although this seems in favour of the GTI, you have to remember that the GTI starts at over 20K and the Leon 16K which means you would lose around 10k in the GTI and 8.5K in the Leon. These figures too aren't the main thing to consider though, If you are speccing up any car, (and looking at the Leon you are) you must consider that trade in values generally will not take into consideration options on a car and therefore a highly specced car loses much more.

I can only recommend the GTI as it is the only one I have owned, but I can say that you wouldn't regret it from a make and model choice.

To summarise Skoda and Seat for those on a budget who don't care about the badge or levels of interior quality and the finer details
GTI is the one to go for if you believe what ALL the magazines say about it's handling and ownership costs.
Audi for those who consider themselves able to pay more for the top quality fit and finish regardless of the fact that Audi has spoilt the ride and handling of the A3 TFSI (not the S3!).

But who's the monkey paying £4k more  

Seriously some good points though they are all good cars to drive (haven't driven the Skoda but have the other 3) and as said they overlap in who they appeal to. So bottom line is you can get a Golf with a nice badge and nicer interior trim or a Leon with more toys as standard, and spare cash in your back pocket. As others have eluded to in between the jokes it dosn't seem if there is a right or wrong answer to me.

[RedRobin]

The DSG now appears to be the default choice and it's difficult to argue with the technology and execution but if it's real involvement you're after then manual changing beats DSG hands down.

....At the risk of taking this thread off topic - You may much prefer Manual over DSG but driving in M with paddles is equally involving. I say this after 40,000 miles of DSG.

[TagnuT]

Seat Leon FR = Golf Sport GT Tsi  - I would have the Leon ............I think

I looked at the FR and the GTI. The FR appealed new car V second hand. I like the looks of the FR on the outside and the dials are nice. It was just that big slab of plastic around the radio and some of the trim that put me off. (Also at the time they didn't do DSG). For the price I think its a good car. Oh and the gear knob on the manual what shape is that ?? similar to the Astra VXR. I dosen't fit in your hand.

One other thing the options are in general cheaper, DSG £1000 , bluetooth £250, you can get zenons with AFS (like you can on the Eos) and the IPod/MP3 connection is only £90 as well

And they call it Candy white as well........ 

However I decided to spend more and get a new ED30 

[speedynz]

Subjective stuff Robin.

Tapping that little tab just doesn't involve me in the same way as matching revs, blipping the throttle and slotting home gear after gear.

Efficient? NO!

Involving? OH YES!!

Luddite? Probably!

[TheReflex]

Is it just me or does the majority of people here not realise that there are cars better than the GTI?
I know its a GTI forum so there are bound to be biased opinions. But for some people its not what you want, but relistically what you can afford, ie value for money. In this case the FR which is mechanically 95% identical to the GTI yet shaving 4k of its list price is strong enough to persuade some people. So why i ask must we b!tch about other cars which share similar components just because one has a VW badge the other a Seat?
What happens when we move up to an S3 or S4 or maybe RS4, do we then slag of the greatness of the GTI then?

Humans are 98% the same DNA-wise as a chimpanzee.....I prefer being human

Seriously though, whether you choose a Leon FR, Skoda Octavia RS, VW GTI or an A3 2.0 TFSI then you are getting what you pay for. If it is the nuts and bolts you are bothered about then the Skoda suits. If it is the original GTI you are after then it has to be the Golf. If you are after a badge then subjectively you would choose the Audi.
  The applications and target demographics overlap, but each one has its own refinements and for me the GTI is the one I would choose. Obviously I am biased, but if you drove all of them down the road then only the Golf would stand out of the crowd. The GTI is classless and an icon, but I doubt that your wife would subscibe to any of this. Residuals on any new car are poor in the short term, however over 3 years or more the GTI will hold on to 50% of it's original value and the Leon is projected 46-48% retained value. Although this seems in favour of the GTI, you have to remember that the GTI starts at over 20K and the Leon 16K which means you would lose around 10k in the GTI and 8.5K in the Leon. These figures too aren't the main thing to consider though, If you are speccing up any car, (and looking at the Leon you are) you must consider that trade in values generally will not take into consideration options on a car and therefore a highly specced car loses much more.

I can only recommend the GTI as it is the only one I have owned, but I can say that you wouldn't regret it from a make and model choice.

To summarise Skoda and Seat for those on a budget who don't care about the badge or levels of interior quality and the finer details
GTI is the one to go for if you believe what ALL the magazines say about it's handling and ownership costs.
Audi for those who consider themselves able to pay more for the top quality fit and finish regardless of the fact that Audi has spoilt the ride and handling of the A3 TFSI (not the S3!).

But who's the monkey paying £4k more  

Seriously some good points though they are all good cars to drive (haven't driven the Skoda but have the other 3) and as said they overlap in who they appeal to. So bottom line is you can get a Golf with a nice badge and nicer interior trim or a Leon with more toys as standard, and spare cash in your back pocket. As others have eluded to in between the jokes it dosn't seem if there is a right or wrong answer to me.

Spot on post there Rob. As an ex SEAT LCR driver I would definitley have another SEAT. For the money I paid for my Golf I could have had a Leon Cupra but I'm not a fan of the looks or interior. The new Leon Cupra and FR are still great cars  .  The Mk V Golf GTI really is a quality piece of kit though not just magazine hype, and in my opinion worth the premium over the Leon FR .

[Peskarik]

i see the new EVO X is now coming with an SST gearbox with adjustable ferocity!  , which is yes youve guess'ed the DSG!!!, nice to see this is becoming more popular, and wave good bye to the old clutch!  

60 percent of new Audi R8 are sold with manual gearbox. So it is not bye bye just yet. 

[Peskarik]

....I can't believe that no-one (unless I missed it) has pointed out the biggest 'gun' of all in persuading her to go for a GTI over a Leon FR......DSG !!!!

Or is DSG a Leon option?

According to What car the auto is an option...don't know if it is the DSG though

Yes the Leon comes with DSG, the flappy paddles and all. I drove the Leon DSG and the A3 DSG when looking and it was the same twin clutch affair with lightening fast changes. The is also the launch control as well according to the boys and girls on the Seat forums.

Despite being quicker I still wanted the manual to feel more involved with the driving process.

+1

 also - extra exercise of the right arm and left leg

[RedRobin]

Subjective stuff Robin.

Tapping that little tab just doesn't involve me in the same way as matching revs, blipping the throttle and slotting home gear after gear.

Efficient? NO!

Involving? OH YES!!

Luddite? Probably!

....Fair enough, mate. Each to their own and all that matters is that you enjoy driving whatever vehicle you have.

Safe 'n Fun Journeys