Author Topic: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.  (Read 33849 times)

Peskarik

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #100 on: 07 June 2007, 18:19 »
Milltek, quite rightly in my opinion, won't launch a product until they are satisfied it will work well. Producing performance exhaust systems for cars involves much more than just bending tubes.

Sure, I agree 110% on it not being just beding tubes. Only, they do not bench-test cars with their exhaust, so they do not really know if it works well, if you know what I mean.

Offline Hurdy

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #101 on: 07 June 2007, 19:04 »
Quote
Yebut, the Oettinger warranty is two years more than the SuperChips warranty! 

You do get a warranty with superchips though.

yep, I thought so myself as well. It may even be unlimited warranty, as long as it can be proven that problem was caused by the chip. But the same applies to Oettinger, except warranty is 2 years.

Yebut - you all seem to have missed the point again.

Surely, it would be much better to use a product, which by its' nature of considerable more development - makes it considerably more reliable.  In that instance, it wouldn't matter weather the warranty was 15minutes or 15 years !!!!  :smug:

 :cool:
Damn, I get no reply from Oettinger about the pricing.  :undecided:
And no reply from Milltek about the exhaust for Ed.30. Maybe Milltek does not like people from continent asking questions?  :undecided: Does anybody have an update on the exhaust? I mean, they have one for S3 already! Cmon, Milltek!!!

If you wait till after the 17th of this month, I'm sure Ed30 owners will have badgered Milltek into submission at Inters!

Me included,
   I e-mailed them long ago asking the same question and the answer I got was that it was due for release "sometime in May". Which May I don't know :undecided:
  They also said it shouldn't take much development as "it is basically the same as the S3 exhaust"
 Here's hoping it arrives sooner rather than later :wink:
Seat Leon Cupra Black 290 DSG

Offline Russ.C

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #102 on: 07 June 2007, 19:21 »
Quote
Yebut, the Oettinger warranty is two years more than the SuperChips warranty! 

You do get a warranty with superchips though.

Do you?  :undecided:
If it has words like "limited" in it - then think of "teapot" and "chocolate" - and you should get some idea of its' potential effectiveness!

TT you do realise I'm now living in fear of my turbo exploding after reading your posts re. superchips! :wink:

 :undecided:

Just to clarify on the warranty. Its 12 months or 30,000miles from install. Summary of cover: "Mechanical or electrical breakdown being the sudden and unforeseen failure of a component of the motor vehicle directly attributable the the operating of the superchips software the subject of this warranty, which has caused the motor vehicle to stop working and therefore requiring repair or replacement before normal operation can be resumed"
Although I agree that the product should be right, so the warranty is not actually ever required.

To be honest I've only heard negative comments from a couple of people so far regarding superchips (many more v. happy people who have been using it for years) and I've heard a fair share of positive & negative comments about revo etc. as well. So I guess its just peoples opinions/experiences, which is fine, but I think I think I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and see if it works for me! :smiley:

By the way, think I'll send milltek an e-mail as well! Force em into submission! :evil:
GTI Edition 30, 3Dr, Manual, Black Pearl, Xenons, Ipod, Highline, Rear Tints & Superchips Bluefin ;)


Peskarik

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #103 on: 07 June 2007, 19:37 »
Yep, send the email! They should see there is interest out there!

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #104 on: 08 June 2007, 11:02 »
Milltek, quite rightly in my opinion, won't launch a product until they are satisfied it will work well. Producing performance exhaust systems for cars involves much more than just bending tubes.

Sure, I agree 110% on it not being just beding tubes. Only, they do not bench-test cars with their exhaust, so they do not really know if it works well, if you know what I mean.

Oh, you are so, so WRONG with that statement.  Milltek certainly do test their exhausts.  They repeatedly run them on a rolling road dyno, and constantly tweak the spec, not only for "performance", but also for clearance, and general fit and finish.

Milltek are extremely highly regarded, thoughout the entire aftermarket and tuning sectors of the motor industry, be that Volkswagen or Vauxhall, that their products are consistently the best finished, in terms of quality, fit, sound, and performance.  Milltek have built up such an enviable reputation, you can be assured that they are a fit first time, and forget product.  (Unlike something else listed in this thread title  :wink:)
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #105 on: 08 June 2007, 11:06 »
Quote
Yebut, the Oettinger warranty is two years more than the SuperChips warranty! 

You do get a warranty with superchips though.

yep, I thought so myself as well. It may even be unlimited warranty, as long as it can be proven that problem was caused by the chip. But the same applies to Oettinger, except warranty is 2 years.

Yebut - you all seem to have missed the point again.

Surely, it would be much better to use a product, which by its' nature of considerable more development - makes it considerably more reliable.  In that instance, it wouldn't matter weather the warranty was 15minutes or 15 years !!!!  :smug:

 :cool:
Damn, I get no reply from Oettinger about the pricing.  :undecided:
And no reply from Milltek about the exhaust for Ed.30. Maybe Milltek does not like people from continent asking questions?  :undecided: Does anybody have an update on the exhaust? I mean, they have one for S3 already! Cmon, Milltek!!!

If you wait till after the 17th of this month, I'm sure Ed30 owners will have badgered Milltek into submission at Inters!

Me included,
   I e-mailed them long ago asking the same question and the answer I got was that it was due for release "sometime in May". Which May I don't know :undecided:
  They also said it shouldn't take much development as "it is basically the same as the S3 exhaust"
 Here's hoping it arrives sooner rather than later :wink:

Maybe Milltek think there is less demand for the Ed30?  Or maybe they have some kind of corporate strategy to primarily concentrate on the "top-end" brand of Audi, then VW, then Seat, and so on.

If enough peeps hassle them at Inters, then maybe they might pull their fingers out, and get on with it.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #106 on: 08 June 2007, 11:42 »
Just to clarify on the warranty. Its 12 months or 30,000miles from install. Summary of cover: "Mechanical or electrical breakdown being the sudden and unforeseen failure of a component of the motor vehicle directly attributable the the operating of the superchips software the subject of this warranty, which has caused the motor vehicle to stop working and therefore requiring repair or replacement before normal operation can be resumed"

Strewth, you have confirmed chocolate and teapot.  12 months is taking the p!$$.  12 months also breaches current EU consumer law, which basically states if a warranty is offered, it must be no less than 24 months!.  Then there is the "detail" - sudden and unforseen - what about gradual failure???  Basically, any other problems, such as misfire, hesitation, pinking (knocking/detonation/pre-ignition), poor fuel consumption, illumination of EMS light, etc, etc - are excluded from their warranty.  :shocked:  :rolleyes:  So, if their software causes your car to go into "limp home mode" - you ain't covered.  Looks like their warranty has more holes than a swiss cheese.

Although I agree that the product should be right, so the warranty is not actually ever required.

You are damn right - their product should be fully developed, and nigh-on perfect.  And no, it isn't too much to ask - Revo, Oettinger and MTM can manage!

To be honest I've only heard negative comments from a couple of people so far regarding superchips (many more v. happy people who have been using it for years)

OK, a number of issues.  Firstly, the "happy" customers - of course, ANYONE who suddenly finds they have an extra 80 or so BHP under their right foot is going to be "happy".  Think of it as the "honeymoon period".  Unfortunately, not all marriages are made in heaven!  :wink:.  Secondly, how many of those happy customers have compared, back to back, with other chips?

Next, and I've repeatedly said this before - but I'll approach it from a different perspective.  You state that peeps have been using SuperChips for years - again, maybe so.  However, older style ECUs were considerably easier to reverse engineer, and then re-map.  Also, an extremely high proportion of SuperChips customers are turbo diesels.  These are notoriously easy to tune - simply by whacking up the turbo boost, and also by overfuelling.  Any software boffin with a laptop can do the same.  Just google for custom codes, and similar catchphrases, and you will see what I mean.  However, petrol engine ECUs are completely different, and control a greater range of paramaters, as both I and RedRobin mentioned.  I have made mentions previously about the "Bosch ME" ECU as found on normally aspriated petrol V6 Vectras - and SuperChips made a right hash of that, and were completely out of their depths.  Moving onto the 2 litre FSI turbo engine, this uses the "Bosch MED" variant ECU - and even the established and dedicated VAG chip tuners repeatedly said how difficult this latest ECU was to reverse-engineer and then remap.

and I've heard a fair share of positive & negative comments about revo etc. as well. So I guess its just peoples opinions/experiences, which is fine, but I think I think I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and see if it works for me! :smiley:

With respect to Revo - I think you will find that most Revo customers are true "enthusiats", whereas SuperChips customers tend to be more of the "rep-mobile" brigade, and seem more gullable (no offence to you personally, Russ).  SuperChips customers, on the whole, will just fit it and hope to forget it - and most couldn't care less if it was close to perfection.  Revo customers, on the other hand, are more technically demanding.  Theyv'e probably dynoed their car beforhand, done a lot of homework, and know exactly what to expect.  If they don't think they have perfection, they will feed back to Revo, either directly, or via the supplying dealer.  They will also probably share their "problems", on web forum such as this, not for slating the product, but instead, to help others in turn help Revo further.

This is the crucial issue - Revo listen to all their customers - SuperChips don't (unless you shout loud enough - and then they just give you a shyte product for free).
« Last Edit: 08 June 2007, 11:45 by Teutonic_Tamer »
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Russ.C

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #107 on: 08 June 2007, 12:54 »
Quote
With respect to Revo - I think you will find that most Revo customers are true "enthusiats", whereas SuperChips customers tend to be more of the "rep-mobile" brigade, and seem more gullable (no offence to you personally, Russ).

No offence taken, in my case I would definately agree with that, I definately wouldn't call myself an enthusiast,  this was my first re-map experience and I only keep my cars for three years, so maybe if the Superchips product does let me down on the ED30, I may look at Revo in the future.... :wink:
Hopefully it won't let me down though! A guy I work with has had a Superchip on his RS Focus for over two years and has never had an issue, I'll take some comfort from that seen as you have destroyed my confidence in Superchips TT!! :grin: But seriously, thanks for the information it really helps a beginner like me! :smiley:
« Last Edit: 08 June 2007, 13:07 by Russ.C »
GTI Edition 30, 3Dr, Manual, Black Pearl, Xenons, Ipod, Highline, Rear Tints & Superchips Bluefin ;)


Peskarik

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #108 on: 08 June 2007, 13:12 »
Milltek, quite rightly in my opinion, won't launch a product until they are satisfied it will work well. Producing performance exhaust systems for cars involves much more than just bending tubes.

Sure, I agree 110% on it not being just beding tubes. Only, they do not bench-test cars with their exhaust, so they do not really know if it works well, if you know what I mean.

Oh, you are so, so WRONG with that statement.  Milltek certainly do test their exhausts.  They repeatedly run them on a rolling road dyno, and constantly tweak the spec, not only for "performance", but also for clearance, and general fit and finish.

Milltek are extremely highly regarded, thoughout the entire aftermarket and tuning sectors of the motor industry, be that Volkswagen or Vauxhall, that their products are consistently the best finished, in terms of quality, fit, sound, and performance.  Milltek have built up such an enviable reputation, you can be assured that they are a fit first time, and forget product.  (Unlike something else listed in this thread title  :wink:)

I do not think I am wrong, TT.
THis is from their webpage:
If you’ve a new model of car and want an after-market exhaust,
then Milltek Sport may be your only choice: it’s quick to develop
them for the latest models. But even if you don’t have a new car
there are plenty of good reasons to choose the UK brand.
The company started as six enthusiasts making stainless
exhausts for classic cars in the south-west of England. Now the
team has grown to 45 operating from two sites in the Midlands.
Aircraft-grade 304 stainless steel discolours less than many
types because it’s anti-magnetic. All Milltek systems are made
entirely from this material, including the internals and clamps.
When pipework needs to be shaped it’s done with mandrel
bends – these mean it’s not crushed so it retains the same cross
section throughout the curve, which gives the best gas flow. The
exhausts have a bigger bore than original, and increase both peak
performance and mid-range torque.
MD Phil Millington is keen to stress this: ‘Take the BMW 335i
fitted with our system. The peak power is increased by only
21bhp, but the improvement in mid-range torque means it’s a real
rocket. The systems we make for road cars are designed to be
just that. They give real-world improvements in the cars. They
feel quicker and drive better than standard.’ He’s keen to mention
the firm’s reputation for excellent customer service, too.
Their exhausts are quality products – as good as original,
claims Milltek – and that means they’re easier to fit than many
competitors. A full system for a Porsche 911 GT3 will set you
back a not insignificant £3995, but that includes manifolds.
Milltek Sport’s range doesn’t include cat bypass pipes.
Although these are cheaper, and will give better performance
than high-flow sports catalytic converters, the firm doesn’t
include them because cars without cats aren’t generally good for
the environment. They’re often illegal, too.
Everything is designed and made at their factory in Ilkeston,
Derbyshire. Significantly, the firm doesn’t use a dyno when
developing its exhausts. It has the knowledge and experience to
build good systems without it. Plus, as they’re often designing
systems for the latest cars it’s often the case that engine
mapping specialists haven’t managed to ‘crack’ the ECUs yet, so
the cars can’t be remapped.
Milltek Sport knows that most
owners getting an exhaust will get their car remapped, too, and is
confident their products will work extremely well when they do.

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: ED. 30 307BHP Bluefin article.
« Reply #109 on: 08 June 2007, 15:33 »
Quote
With respect to Revo - I think you will find that most Revo customers are true "enthusiats", whereas SuperChips customers tend to be more of the "rep-mobile" brigade, and seem more gullable (no offence to you personally, Russ).

No offence taken, in my case I would definately agree with that, I definately wouldn't call myself an enthusiast,  this was my first re-map experience and I only keep my cars for three years, so maybe if the Superchips product does let me down on the ED30, I may look at Revo in the future.... :wink:
Hopefully it won't let me down though! A guy I work with has had a Superchip on his RS Focus for over two years and has never had an issue, I'll take some comfort from that seen as you have destroyed my confidence in Superchips TT!! :grin: But seriously, thanks for the information it really helps a beginner like me! :smiley:

No worries.  If it is ok in the Focus chavmobile, lets hope it's fine in yours too.  :wink:  :grin:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
-----
'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo