oil level

[adw555]

just a quick query....when cold, should the oil level be at the top of the 'middle' section of the dip stick or can it go up to the MAX point ?....my last suburu used this part (from top of middle to MAX) for expansion when the oil was warm...

The reason I'm asking is after the first dealer service the oil level was at the MAX point when stone cold....and given that everything they have done so far to the car has been totally inept I dont trust them.

[lowdown]

I always fill mine right to the tip of the max arrow head.

[wantmygti]

Fairly sure it should be at the max preferably all the time. Also, seems like the tyresmoke network and this one are becoming mirror images of each other...

Along the oil theme, and sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but what weight of oil is best for my GTi? I've noted the VW approval numbers on the oils, but it seems different weights get the same approval. Any ideas? (not on longlife servicing)

[Teutonic_Tamer]

If you give your GTI the beans, keep the oil level to the TOP of the max mark, when COLD.

Along the oil theme, and sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but what weight of oil is best for my GTi? I've noted the VW approval numbers on the oils, but it seems different weights get the same approval. Any ideas? (not on longlife servicing)

Any oil which has the official VW 504.00 approval - Castrol EDGE 5w30 is ideal.  Don't use Mobil 1 stuff, they just make far too many false claims!  The LongLife oil is actually a much higher performing oil, compared to the normal non-LongLife stuff, and more importantly, has a higher temperature rating, pretty vital for turbos!

[wantmygti]

So in terms of the warranty, I am ok to top up and replace the oil with longlife stuff. It costs more but is better?

Correct?

(no issues of mixing longlife synethetic with T+D semi?)

[Teutonic_Tamer]

So in terms of the warranty,

In terms of warranty, you must, must, must - must ONLY use oil which meets the standards listed in the owners handbook, of which 504.00 is the main one (but there are others).

I am ok to top up and replace the oil with longlife stuff. It costs more but is better?

The LongLife oils, which have the VW approvals are subjected to two further additional tests, over and above those tests required for non LongLife oils.

Normal, traditional multigrades, be they plain mineral oil, semi-synthetic, or fully synthetic - obviously go through a series of standard tests.  The two relevent ones I'll try to explain;
   firstly, to put it very simply, the oil is "poured" at two temperatures, namely 0 deg C, and 100 deg C - and measured to comply with long established criteria.  These two temperatures are where the 20w50, or 5w30 numbers come from: the first part, the XXw is the performance at 0 deg C (and the "w", over the years has been loosly termed the "winter" performance), and the second numbers after the "w" are the performance at 100 deg C.

  The second relevant criteria regards endurance testing - the oil is basically used continuously on an engine test bed for a pre-determined number of hours (fixed by ACEA test standards).  The oil is then drained, and analyised.  The oil must have maintained certain pre-test properties, one being the viscosity rating (XwYY).

Now, getting on to VW LongLife approval standards, regarding temperature testing, the oil is additionally tested at 150 dec C, and given a "High Temperature, High Sheer" (HTHS) rating.  Furthermore, the endurance testing hours are actually double the number of hours over standard oils.

With that lot in mind, you can obviously (I hope  ) understand why LongLife oils are more expensive.  They obviously last twice as long as "normal"oils.  However, the crucial bit to the GTI is the HTHS tests.  Turbo chargers operate at very high temperatures, and normal mineral oils and even semi-synthetic oils "break down", developing very hard coke like substances.  These deposits then gather in the oilways restricting flow, they can actually tear the filter medium in the oil filter thus allowing unfilterd oil to circulate, and finaly, the most damaging aspect is that they block the oil pick-up metal gauze strainer in the oil sump causing oil starvation.  Now, most fully synthetic oils are much better at resisting this trait, but still not perfect.  Most fully synthetic oils will break down at around 130 dec C, though some of the more expensive, higher grade fully synthetics do perform better still - Castrol Formula RS Performance and Protection 10w60 is just one example.

What I'm trying to say, is there is no guarantee that "any old fully synthetic" will be able to withstand the v.high temps in a turbo charger.  It is for that reason alone, why I would strongly recommend sticking with the VW LongLife oils in a turbo engine, even if you use the time and distance servicing!

One final, crucial issue on longlife oils - there are currently three different manufacturer standards for longlife oils.  These are VW, BMW and GM (Vauxhall/Opel).  These standards are NOT interchangeable - do NOT use either a GM or BMW longlife oil in a VAG motor!

(no issues of mixing longlife synethetic with T+D semi?)

YES, there will be issues - don't do it.  Semi-synthetic oils should NEVER be used in turbo charged petrol engines.

[wantmygti]

Ok, I suppose where I am confused is that i thought cars on T+D servicing did not have full synthetic oil in them?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Ok, I suppose where I am confused is that i thought cars on T+D servicing did not have full synthetic oil in them?

OK, just to clear up the confusion.

ALL VW, Audi, Seat, and Skodas, are filled with only the LongLife oil at the factory where they are built.  This is completey irrespective of weather the subsequent owner wishes to change to T&D servicing.  It is also irrespective of cars going to those export markets where LongLife servicing is not used, such as some 3rd world countries (africa, parts of central and southern america), due to the crap fuels they have.

The stealer does not touch the oil when they PDI a new motor (apart from checking the level on the dipstick), even if the owner asks them to code the SID for T&D services.  So even if you have select T&D servicing, LongLife oil will definately be in the sump for the first 10k miles.

The standard, non-LongLife oil for the turbo engine is fully synthetic, though you are allowed a very limited emergency top-up of less than ½ a litre of non fully synthetic.

[wantmygti]

Thanks Sean - most helpful. Top up using the VW requiremed oil for a car on longlife servicing then.

Do you know if this is the same oil that the stealer will use when they do a T+D service? Or is it then that they might put a slightly lower spec oil in?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Thanks Sean - most helpful. Top up using the VW requiremed oil for a car on longlife servicing then.

Good - we got there . . .       

Do you know if this is the same oil that the stealer will use when they do a T+D service? Or is it then that they might put a slightly lower spec oil in?

Haaa . . . . now we are dealing with a completely different pot of smelly haddock.  And a couple of different variables too . . .

Firstly, the dealer will use their own "bulk" oil supply for servicing (unless you tell them not to).  This bulk supply will be "contracted" by an oil company.  They should have either two or three bulk tanks, ideally for LongLife, normal T&D, and PD TDI.  My local stealers have a contract with Castrol, but they advise me there are other stealers who contract with either Castrol, Mobil or Shell.  Now, both Castrol and Shell DO have an approved VAG LongLife oil, whereas Mobil has only recently introduced a LongLife oil (still don't trust the lieing buggers though!).  If you took your car to a VAG stealer 12 months ago, with a Mobil contract, and bulk oil was used, you certainly would not have got LongLife in the sump!

When the stealer services your car, they should use the appropriate oil for the service in question, from one of their bulk oil tanks.  You are perfectly within your rights to ask them to refil with the LongLife oil, even if you only have the T&D servicing.  Alternatively, you could supply your own oil (an all the other parts), and providng the bits were OEM, and the oil was the appropriate VW spec, then they have to use your own stuff.  This is exactly what I do - I purchase the parts at trade prices, and I have my own 60 litre drum of Castrol LongLife!  The last service on my S4 came down from just under £400, to £169