Author Topic: DIY or not?  (Read 1671 times)

Offline neil_1821

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DIY or not?
« on: 25 January 2007, 09:36 »
I'm fixing a few problems on my golf and one of them is that the main bolt from the exhaust to the manifold is blowing as it'ssnapped off andi need a new gasket in between them as it is falking slightly. Last weekend i tried to take the manifold cover off but another bolt snapped, my only fear is that i can take the cover off but what happens if another main manifold bolt snaps closer to the block? I dont have any special tools, i've got a small workshop behind the house but do you think it would be worth taking it to a garage or not?

Offline Ben Lessani

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Re: DIY or not?
« Reply #1 on: 25 January 2007, 10:01 »
they'll charge you hours of labour for a snapped stud, cos they're a pig to get out. i did the head on my mums 206 the other day, and i managed to snap a stud going between the block and the mani - i managed to get it with a pair of vice grips and a lot of patience.

garages usually use a heat gun and mole grips to get them out (theres no other way). and worse case scenario, you have to take the head off to get enough room to remove the studs - its not really that difficult.

Offline neil_1821

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Re: DIY or not?
« Reply #2 on: 25 January 2007, 11:49 »
I suppose your right, only problem is i need my car, i canonly work on it saturday and sunday, then i have to travel back to uni sunday evening, so if something major goes wrong i wont have time to fix it, that's why i though a garage would be better as they should be able to do it within that time limit. It took my friend a whole day to get one of them out, if more than one snaps i'm really gonna be up the creek.

Offline Len

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Re: DIY or not?
« Reply #3 on: 25 January 2007, 12:48 »
This is exactly why I havent done anything with the heatshield on the manifold.
I was told that the studs are a major fault/problem and the only way to solve it is head off etc.
So thats a very major job and costly.
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Offline neil_1821

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Re: DIY or not?
« Reply #4 on: 25 January 2007, 16:29 »
i know it's gonna be costly but it generally needs doing because the gasket between them and also from the nut its loosing its compresability in the exhaust, so i dont get as much back pressure. I dont know if that's gonna be an MOT failure but it'd be nice to get it sorted because the engine is still rather noisy.

Offline Ben Lessani

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Re: DIY or not?
« Reply #5 on: 25 January 2007, 19:29 »
taking the head off is simple, not as difficult as you think. only about 12 bolts to undo, and the timing belt. i can do it with my eyes closed.

Offline Len

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Re: DIY or not?
« Reply #6 on: 26 January 2007, 09:07 »
So blessani you dont take of any of the manifolds or dissconnect them from anything?

No its not that difficult if you know what you are doing but its not simple.
Like how do you lock cam and crank? Or do you just let it all move freely and have the hassle of resetting to the timing marks?
Do you have the head skimmed whilst its off?
Do you replace the gaskets with better?

I could go on but I think people get the picture.
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Offline Ben Lessani

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Re: DIY or not?
« Reply #7 on: 26 January 2007, 11:16 »
without being rude, i did a head without ever doing one before the other day and managed to get it all prepped for the skim shop in 2.5 hours - so yeh, its pretty easy.

1. Disconnect any wiring looms, be sure to mark or label them if they're not colour coded. And remove the water pipes that go into the thermostat housing, ensure you drain the radiator first to prevent cross contamination of the oil and water channels.
2. Loosen the alternator at the top and remove the aux belt and the crank pulley (mark the outside of the crank pulley)
3. Use the timing marks on the block, or common sense, to lock the head at TDC (not dead important, just makes life easier). Top dead centre is where number 1 piston (closest to the cam gear) is at the top of its stroke. Most cars (check your Haynes for confirmation), will have notches that you can actually drop pins into to lock the cam gear and the crank pulley at TDC. Mark the crap out of it with tip-ex anyway for good measure.
4. Loosen off the tensioner (now's your time to replace it if its not been done in about 40-60k), and remove the timing belt. Inspect the belt for wear, if you can see the ribs on the outside of the belt, then replace that too.
5. Unbolt the mani > downpipe (if that's too difficult), then you can remove the downpipe > center pipe and wiggle it out with patience (bear in mind the head is heavy, so you need a little strength about you)
6. Disconnect any fuel lines and air ducts for the throttle housing, remove spark plugs and HT leads (label them if you don't know which is which).
7. Remove the rocker cover, then proceed to unbolt the 10 head bolts in the right sequence (check your Haynes) a half turn at a time, then you'll fine after 2 passes, you can undo them with your fingers.
8. Lift the rocker assembly off and put it somewhere safe, then lift the head off.
9. Clean the old gasket (if neccessary) with something soft, a wooden or plastic scraper, some people recommend 320 grit wet and dry - but its not a sensible idea. And be especially careful cleaning the underside of the head, its alluminium - VERY SOFT!

Thats pretty much it, then refit in reverse. Clean the bores and check them for scratches, also check the piston. Sometimes you get deposits in there, just hoover them out. You don't need the head skimmed when you remove the head (unless the head gasket has seriously blown), and if it does need skimmed its £25 from any machining shop - ensure they lap the valves at the same time too. You can check the head for warping using a straight edge and a feeler gauge (bit crude, or you could ask any machining shop to do it for about £5).

Things that do NEED replacing are...
Fresh Coolant and Water (£2)
Head Gasket (£15)
Head Bolt Set (£15)

Things that CAN be replaced if the car is due for its 40-60k service are...
Tensioner (£12) - Again, if the belt looks worn, odds are the tensioner should be replaced too.
Timing Belt (£7)
Aux Belt (£4)
Water Pump (£25) - Not hard to change, and difficult to test the old one (can only check for bearing play), its up to you if you want to change it - not always neccessary though!
Oil (£10)
Oil Filter (£3)
Spark Plugs (£10) - Only need replacing if they look worn, no point doing it otherwise


....So I did go on, to ensure people do get the picture. Removing a head isn't that difficult, and certainly doesn't justify taking it to a garage to pay £400 for a Head Gasket replacement where they'll just use the same stretch bolts! It can be a little daunting but surely its something worth learning to try?

Tools needed...
Angle tool gauge (on some cars)
Torque Wrench
E Type Star Sockets
A Standard Tool Kit

Offline Len

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Re: DIY or not?
« Reply #8 on: 26 January 2007, 11:39 »
Good reply mate.

Not just 12 bolts is it! :rolleyes:

So there's no way you can call it simple!

But I agree as long as you have the correct tools and a bit of nous and can read and interpret the Haynes manual then its is a fairly straighforward job and well worth doing yourself.
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Offline neil_1821

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Re: DIY or not?
« Reply #9 on: 27 January 2007, 17:15 »
Good news, managed to get the bolts out without snapping any other one, we heated the surrounding aluminium block and they seemed to come out failry easy. Only problem is that all the car places were closed so we managed to scavage another bolt but couldnt get a gasket, although there was nothing wrong with this one, borrowed some putty type thing off my dads friend to help seal any gaps, which is industrial stuff, can work up to a temperature of over 1000 C, so i hope it wont be getting that hot but all escaping gases have been stopped, just got to tension the alternator belt and she'll pur like a kitten. It also seems to have helped my acceleration by stopping the gases escaping, although there wasnt much i can definately feel a difference.