Author Topic: Santa Pod Sunday 25th,  (Read 11907 times)

Offline frosticles

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #30 on: 23 January 2004, 18:34 »
they're still good though  :-*

1978 Ford Escort MK2 RS Mexico, GTiTDiPD150. RS2's,Cruise,Metallic Black, Upsolute re-map. Goes and smells like stink.

Offline S11EPS

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #31 on: 23 January 2004, 19:08 »
Sorry lads but that is BOLLOX.
Torque is almost useless without BHP, torque is only useful once you have built up some road speed.

I'm sorry if you think its bollox, but its basic physics mate.

HP = (torque X rpm) divided by 5252

Road speed has nothing at all to do with it, its all about engine speed. What gets your car off of the line is torque, not power, as Power is dependant upon the engine speed (road speed is irrelevant) and the torque of the engine at that particular engine speed.

As an example, at an engine speed of 1900, where my car produces 236lb ft of torque, I am producing 85hp. Your car will be producing (a bit of a guess here, I'm sure you'll have the figures to correct me) somewhere in the region of 150lb ft of torque, therefore your engine will be producing only 43 hp at that engine speed.

Where our engines differ is that my torque pleateaus at that point meaning only one factor of the above equation, revolutions, increases my horsepower to its maximum.) Once my torque figure starts to decrease (before the point of maxium power) it is only the increase in revolutions involved that maintain and increase the power, to its peak figure of 150hp.

Whilst a petrol engine might ultimately have less torque, its a much steeper curve (meaning it increases slower, but for longer) and the formula above dictates it will produce a higher horsepower figure, as it has an extra 2000 rpm within its rev range and its peak torque figue is higher up that rev range.

If you manipulate the above formula will see that the horsepower figure of an engine wll only ever be greater than that of the torque figure once an engine speed of 5252 rpm has been passed. Bearing in mind our diesel machines do not rev that high, it is not surprising that the power is well down, compared to the torque figure

I think some of you chaps are getting a bit carried away with the torque thing, i'm not knocking the diesel, its definately a very nippy motor, but i can't see them overtaking the petrol engine for performance.

No-one's getting carried away, the simple fact is that the amount torque your engine has is one of two factors (the other being maximum engine speed) that will determine how much power your engine produces.  

Where people get carried away is with power, because if you have no torque, a high power output is only achieved with a high rev limit, which for everyday driving is useless. Hence we don't all drive F1 cars that have approximately 270lb ft of torque, but due to a 18,000 rev range are able to produce 950 bhp.

Secondly, diesel already has overtaken petrol for performance - as much as the 1.8t turbo boys won't like to admit it, other than than the 0-60 benchmark (which is still debateable as many magazines have reported a sub 7.5 second time for the diesel) the PD150 is quicker than the 1.8t in all the in-gear benchmarks.

This has the potantial to turn into an argument and go backwards and forwards (in which I see no benefit to, as we've already stated our beliefs), so I suggest that anyone interested goes onto a search engine and searches for sites concerned with this.

Personal preference will come into whether you prefer a torquey engine or one with a higher final horse power figure. Personally for the journeys I do everyday I prefer one that sits at 2200 rpm when sat at 80 miles per hour, that doesn't require a down-change to accelerate quickly, and its torque that makes that happen.

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Offline topher

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #32 on: 23 January 2004, 22:21 »
let's end this here, diesels smell like tractors, end of story.
*runs off fast*  :P :P :P

Offline frosticles

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #33 on: 23 January 2004, 22:21 »
Hail S11 EPS. here endeth the discussion!

1978 Ford Escort MK2 RS Mexico, GTiTDiPD150. RS2's,Cruise,Metallic Black, Upsolute re-map. Goes and smells like stink.

kniterider

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #34 on: 23 January 2004, 22:46 »
well as i said i aint getting into disscussions with this as im a slooowww boy (petrol!!!) yeah these diesels are quick and will whoop my ass any day but each  peep has there own theory on power/torque/bhp etc, i havent got a clue to be honest!!! if i get in it and cant move in the seat under accelration its fast!!! thats how i decide!!!, unfortunately i have to rely on my 8v for a bit of this as the mk4 dont do alot till youve got it wound up then it dont feel fast as youve fell asleep by then!!! lol ;D ;D ;D

Offline S11EPS

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #35 on: 23 January 2004, 23:00 »
 ;D

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Offline antgti

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #36 on: 23 January 2004, 23:46 »
sorry,

The only way to end this argument,( which i feel pleased with cos i never had a post with so much responce) is as Harry Hill would say to have a big bundle.

Now the only way to do this is Santa pod, Mr big Bollox GolfVR6 bring it on, I challenge you to a qtr mile, you vs a Diesel.  I will do it on Sunday if you want as its gonna be a dry day and i will be there, I THINK MY 130 WOULD DO WELL.  BUT TO BE FAIR IT SHOULD BE A 150 DIESEL VS YOU or even Mr frosticles as his is quicker.  

Then we can see exactly what a Diesel can do.  If they are slow then you win and look the daddy. If not then,,,,,,,, ummh,,,,, i don't know,,,,,, something that would annoy you,,,,,,,,,yeah  thats it ,,,,, you ave to go and buy a diesel.   So both ways you're a winner, one way you get to look the daddy, the other you get yourself a better car.

IF DIESELS ARE CRAP COME AND PROVE IT!!!!!!!
Me old diesel was quick/........

16.004 sec Qtr mile @ 85mph 23/5/04 Santa Pod



Now running around in soon to be REVO'd Seat ibiza 1.8T 20v FR and missing the fuel economy..............

Offline modulater

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #37 on: 24 January 2004, 13:34 »
I'd like to see that, VR6 being beaten by a diesel.

Talk to the hand

golfvr6

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #38 on: 24 January 2004, 13:44 »
Secondly, diesel already has overtaken petrol for performance - as much as the 1.8t turbo boys won't like to admit it, other than than the 0-60 benchmark (which is still debateable as many magazines have reported a sub 7.5 second time for the diesel) the PD150 is quicker than the 1.8t in all the in-gear benchmarks.

Not strictly true. The 1.8T petrol unit (150bhp) is massively detuned unlike the diesel unit which is quite tuned already.
The petrol unit is easily producing 225bhp in the S3 and TT, and thats from factory.

golfvr6

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Re:Santa Pod Sunday 25th,
« Reply #39 on: 24 January 2004, 14:44 »
Petrol engines are faster than diesel engines because its better to produce your peak torque at a higher rpm.
 ;D