Urgent Advice Needed: Depressed About My Car [PROMISING DEVELOPMENTS!]

[mookie]

I'd already mentioned in another thread about the problems I've had with my new 8v:

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=42852.0

Well I picked it up from the garage this afternoon and although the leak was done, and the brakes are now up to scratch, the MAIN issue I had with the handling/steering feels just as bad as it did before.

In a nutshell, my gripe was that the steering felt too loose, with too much 'play' on the wheel - which I have to admit has been improved by the repairs. However in addition, while I'm driving along, the car feels like it is lurching to one side or the other, and it's still doing it now - the best comparison I can make is the feeling the car has when you catch a brief side wind and the car does an unexpected wobble. It does it most noticabley when I'm going in a straightline at any speed. I can't tell whether it is just when the car goes over a bump or impection in the road or not, but it does seem to happen more on uneven roads or where there are slight dips and rises in the tarmac... but it is so unnerving that I don't want to drive it. Weird little characteristics I can live with, quirks are fine with me. But this just feels completely wrong and just a little bit scary.

Today the local VW dealership did the following to the steering (aswell as fixing the leak, sorting the brakes etc):

- Both frontside track rods
- Both boots

Cost me almost £300 inc labour for just the above and I'm no further foward  On the printout/invoices they gave me there was two extra things that were mentioned as needing doing, namely "play in the top steering bush", and also "suspect play in front suspension top mounts".

Previously the dudes at the garage mentioned a defect in the rim of one of the rear wheels, so I've changed both rear wheels from my 16v and put them onto this one. Previously it was running on low profile tyres and so now it has two low profile on the front and two regular on the back. Identical BBS RA alloys on both. It's also lowered by 40mm (according to the previous owner) on Bilsteins. No difference has been apparent after putting the two normal wheels on the back.

Right now, I've spent £1370 on the car plus £625 on repairs - £1995 altogether. I really need some advice on how to now proceed. Aside from the bizarre steering there's nothing else immediately wrong with the car, certainly nothing that needs doing immediately. But I feel utterly depressed after today about it.

Are these symptoms that anyone else recognises, or maybe has a good idea about might be causing it? I'm so fed up it's not true. I just don't want to spend the near future chucking my money at a problem that I can't work out the cause of... 

[Thom89]

Sorry to hear about your problems! sounds like what you have is basic wear and tear on various components
I would start with the tyres, are they perfect? Goodyear NCTs can be an absolute nightmare if you've got them fitted, otherwise make sure they have no flat spots, or have gone "egg" shaped, these defects will put you all over the road!
You describe your car as "lurching"  generally this is pointing towards the shockers being knackered!  shot antiroll bar bushes can also contribute to this effect.
For me, I would start with the tires, take to a reputable tyre fitting specialist (hard to find!)hopefully they should check them for free, if they think there may be a sale involved!
After that I would get the top mountings done, and the antiroll bar bushes done at the same time.. they should charge no more than 2hrs labour, and £30-40 in parts
Hope this helps
Tom

[mookie]

Someone else has suggested putting all four regular tyres on the car, reasoning that the front low-profiles might be failing to cope with the road and losing grip or not having enough purchase on the surface. Worth a try I suppose.

Are the antiroll bar bushes the same as the top steering bushes? 

[Hypermonkey]

Don't give up hop yet...I know what you mean though...you got the car and wanted everything to be sweet...but it isn't atm. What model is it mk1-5....as they have different characteristics of handling. If it's a mk3 then look at the mk3 section on the 'what to look for when buying' section. Here it explains how the handling can feel as standard and what probs you may have...I'm sure I read symptoms very similar to what you have described here, and also how to rectify them...mainly the bushes on the rear if irc.

I'm sure you will get it sorted soon geeza 


Where-abouts are you in the country...might be someone on here who could point you in the direction of a good specialist to diagnose fully the problem, and if you got the car from a garage, they could do the work in the specialists report without you paying

[mookie]

Thanks for the advice. It's a 3dr Mk 2 8v GTi.

I'm gonna try putting the regular wheels/tyres on and see if that makes a difference, and I'm going to take it into the National Tyre Centre tomorrow for a tracking check - although the dude sounded slightly less enthusiastic when I mentioned it had been lowered  :embarassed:  Rang back the VW dealership that fixed it yesterday, and they asked me to bring it back for them to check... not sure when I'm going to find the time to do all of this 

I just want a sorted car.

Anyone aware of what the handling characteristics could be on a car with lowered suspension and low profile tyres? I've seen mention of the phenomenon called tramlining elsewhere, and just wondered whether it could be that.

[Hypermonkey]

Tramlines are where the car will follow the depressions in the road caused by subsidence from vehicles travelling along the same line of the road. A car with lowered suspension and low profiles will do this, but the whole car will move along the lines and not 'wobble' when pulled into them.

I have a mk3 16v, lowered with 205/40/17s and do get tramlining but the car doesn't wobble. Mk3's are known for poor handling and sorting the bushes does a world of good.

Just a thought, when the car was lowered, did the shocks and springs get changed? if the springs where changed for lowered ones and the shocks kept the same then this could lead to problems as the shocks will be travelling to different settings then that which they where made to do...that's why lowering kits have shortened pistons and are made to complement the springs.....if this was not done then this could be your answer to part of the prob.

where abouts are you if I've missed that allready?

Also check the tracking/camber, if you lower the car and don't get this done it can lead to really sh*t strearing and handling probs. I would:
Check the springs and shocks are a set and are in good condition(plus what make if poss)
Check the bushes..all of them.
Get the same tyres all round...wel profile anyway.
Have the tracking, toe, camber looked at...this might be best done by a specialist who fits lowered shocks as the settings are different to stock iirc.

Hope this helps.

[mookie]

I'm in Gateshead, Tyne and Wear 

Suspension wise, it's on Bilsteins (as far as I can tell looking through the wheel arch - bright red thing)/. I'm not sure how they were fitted - I need to have a look through the history of the car and see, but I can't remember seeing anything about them before. TBH at this point I'd be quite happy for it to revert back to it's standard form and just enjoy driving the thing.

[V_Arse6]

I think they were about right when they suggested suspension top mounts.  I would imagine what you describe is exactly how it would feel if the shocks have too much room to wander around in the mounts....  Think about it - the body will effectively have a certain amount of 'play' in it, independant of the bits that are actually connected to the road.

My VR6 felt a bit like that before I replaced mine, but I swapped over the suspension (now got FK Highsport Coilovers) at the same time, so I can't say it was just down to those mounts for sure.

Just makes sense to me 

[mookie]

Well changed the rest of the wheels, and it gives a more comfortable ride down the street atleast... but the swervy-death-machine is still in full effect 

I took it for a spin right after and it was still doing the weird lurch. Again, it seems limited to when you do decent speed in a straightline over uneven or undulating road. I gave my dad the controls and he had a go and he (finally) noticed what I'd being try to convince people about. Now initially he put it down to the tramline effect. However, after another 5mins or so he changed his mind. He reckons that because there is still play in the steering, and in effect a deadzone either side of 12oclock on the wheel; the wheels have the ability to shift slightly when they shouldn't be able to. So, hit a divot in the road and instead of bouncing through it in a straightline, the wheels adjust slightly to match it - thus it feels like it's lurching or swerving slightly. He demonstrated when we were parked - the wheel still moves side to side by about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch (maybe slightly more) without having any effect on the steering, like I say, just dead movement.

So. This was my main purpose of repairs - sorting the excess movement on the wheel. Hopefully they won't f**k me over for labour tomorrow to do the bushes as they should have done it first time. Might get the suspension mounts done too.

[Thom89]

Someone else has suggested putting all four regular tyres on the car, reasoning that the front low-profiles might be failing to cope with the road and losing grip or not having enough purchase on the surface. Worth a try I suppose.

Are the antiroll bar bushes the same as the top steering bushes? 

Mookie, Antiroll bar bushes fit on the lower suspension, the antiroll bar connects the O/S suspension to the N/S so the car reacts by losing "body roll" while cornering, replacing these bushes is dirt cheap, and could make a massive difference!
The "Top steering bush" is located on the steering input shaft, just under the steering wheel (ish) its what keeps the main steering shaft "snug" inside the steering column mounting tube... basically if you can move your steering wheel up, down, or side to side without turning the steering wheel, then its knackered! again, dirt cheap job, but minimal effect to solving your problem!
suspension top mounts, tend to go noisy, rather than anything you can feel, but if they've gone bad, they can affect your tracking! though not necessarily your handling!
If your getting your tracking checked, get the rear done at the same time! they might look at you gone out!    If your rear axle is bent, this could lead to "rear wheel steering" to the uninitiated, this has similar symptoms to what you have described, I've actually seen this more than a few times on Golfs that have hit kerbs!
Are your shockers adjustable? have they been turned down to their softest setting!
Hope this helps
Tom