Author Topic: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?  (Read 8093 times)

Offline AGB

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: 05 December 2022, 23:14 »
Hi, I run a GTD on 19s in the summer and Cross Climate 2s in the winter on 18s.  As soon as the temperature drops you can notice a difference with the cross climates.   Below are two youtube videos that you may find interesting.   The first is an Audi A3 on cross climates, the second is a Golf R on Michelin Alpin  Winter tyres. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO0zyQh2l3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGCukBY2haA



Regards,

Dave,

Thanks Dave. Will watch them but your use sounds a bit like mine. How is cabin noise on the Cross Climates? Any noticeable difference?
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Offline AGB

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: 06 December 2022, 07:53 »
Is this a planned necessity purchase Alex or just an attempt to keep the sh!tshow economy afloat by buying stuff?

If you see a fair bit of snow that you actually go out and drive in rather than take a day off work, or you plan on taking the family to Ukraine on a cheap road trip then proper winters will be essential.
Essential for those specific couple of days in the year.

Generally winters in Southern England are fairly tame and the odd day of snow merely involves the whole South East to run around the house panicking then immediately phoning work to say they won’t be in. Schools close because the H&S snowflakes are scared someone will graze a knee in the playground and half the teachers will use the handy excuse of being “unable to make it in” anyway. So most people stay home, build a snowman and watch Netflix. The small fraction of people left will attempt to drive their Corsa/3 series/Tesla on Chinese summer tyres and immediately get stuck halfway up a hill blocking the road.
With the best winter tyres in the world fitted there’s still no getting past roads rendered impassible by nobs on summer tyres stuck sideways across the highway.

Therefore my scientific deduction is Cross Climates are the best investment for Southern-ish England.

Winter tyres won’t handle so well aquaplaning at 60mph in 10°c torrential rain which is a more likely scenario in the southern half of the country between October and April.
Cross Climates should handle it all and cope with getting to the corner shop for a pot noodle on the day you actually have snow and phone in work.

Wheels? I’d go for BBS SR’s as they look robust and suit Golf’s in an OEM style.
Motorsport wheels are aimed at light weight not pothole absorption.

I took delivery of my Clubsport in December and immediately fitted TCR replica wheels for the precise reason that I’d not be gutted if a pothole took one out. In fact they’ve been on the car nearly two years now and are (I think) still ok after hitting numerous potholes that were invisible thanks to being full of water. I hit a beauty last week on an unfamiliar road that damn near gave me whiplash such was the impact (at low speed too) during a rainstorm. I’ll find out whether there was actual wheel damage later this week when it’s going in for a service. Not that it’s of any relevance here.
You might well be able to buy wheels as individuals which helps if one gets bent/cracked by a pothole. My old Pretorias were treated like royalty, never went near a pothole and covered extremely low mileage but still ended up with kinks. I’ll stick to cheapies from now on in personally.

So my vote is BBS SR in 8x18” ET45(ish) on Cross Climates.


My actual choice will be keeping my summer tyres on as it mostly just rains where I live, and using cheapo wheels as I’m a) broke b ) boring and c) cold, lazy and disinterested in mods nowadays

Thanks for the reality check Exonian!  :grin: No, this is not a necessity purchase and I'm not charitable enough to keep the economy going. If the organised crime syndicate that is my local dealer offers me a GT4RS, I may reconsider but this originates from the state of our roads which seem to be the worst they've been since we've lived in Suffolk. Farm traffic, construction vehicles and poor maintenance have all taken their toll and a bit more tyre wall as buffer is what i'm looking for. I'm frequently forced into going to the very edge of the roads by idiots who don't know how wide their Range Rover is but that's a topic for another day.

Regarding your pothole, I had similar in Cambridge, hit an invisible water filled pothole that triggered the dashcam into thinking we'd had an impact it was such a violent impact. I was doing 28mph according to the dashcam. You have my sympathies and hopefully you're not in for a costly repair. It buckled the wheel and destroyed the tyre in my instance. To be honest, I've been running around on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres for the last 5 years in the CSS and never had a problem. Issues with aquaplaning are greatly exaggerated IMHO but I drive appropriately for conditions.

VW are thieves when it comes to pricing - a single Pretoria is now £1200 or thereabouts and the wheels are brittle and prone to damage as you mention.

The BBS SR look like a good option and I think I should have clarified that I meant tyres for winter not winter tyres. We don't get cold enough where we are and I don't go into an office so can avoid the need to drive in snow.
MK7 Clubsport S, 981 Cayman GT4, MK7.5 GTI TCR

Offline AGB

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: 06 December 2022, 07:55 »
If you are anywhere near Durham, then these wheels/tyres could be worth a look:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185284044188

Always the way with eBay, the best deals are never where you want them. I'm the other side of the country just about but a good suggestion. Ta!
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Offline AGB

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: 06 December 2022, 08:20 »
I have Continental TS 870 PS winter tyres and have run a set of winters tyres (and wheels) in the UK since about 2014.  Over which time I've had Continental TS 830P and then 860 on 17" wheels. Now the latest iteration 870 PS on 18" wheels.

Granted I've seen the wheel swop date due to the magical 7°C getting later and later.  Used to be late October, but in the last few years it's been very late November.  I usually make the decision to swop when my early morning commute is consistently below 7°C for about a week or so.

Driving about 30k miles a year my daily commute in the winter months sees me leaving home about 7 am and leaving work at 5.30 pm.  During which the UK temperatures on my commute would generally be 4 to 5°C (or a few degrees less in the mornings) as I went up and down the Midlands, much of it cross country on B-roads.

Granted if you decide to drive like a loon round corners you can feel the tyres squirm (technical term :nerd:) compared to summers, but then that's to be expected.  But I don't and I'd rather have the overall grip reassurance in cold and wet or frosty/icy conditions. In wet weather conditions I've not had any issue with them in terms of braking.  In my opinion I also find they're better when the road is greasy compared to summers.  I would echo GolfDB's comment but in a winter tyre usage, when the temperature drops you can tell the difference.

My Continental 860s were due for renewal this year after 4 winters' use.  I did think about whether to go with all-season tyres this time around, as I know they've come on a long way in terms of performance.  I watched a few videos and reviews.  However in my case I decided to stick with winters.  That may change in the future if the UK continues to get milder winters and I don't drive when it's generally still pitch black for my morning commute.

I think you have to make the decision based on researching the tyres, but also what's right for your driving. When you drive in the day, what types of roads you drive, the distances you drive and where you are in the UK.

The Michelin CrossClimate 2 does look to do really well in testing and reviews.  I've not driven on all-season tyres so can't comment on them.  But I think that whichever you pick, all-season tyres or winters, point is they'll perform better than an equivalent summer tyre if the mercury remains under the 7°C.

Winter wheel wise I have the 18" BBS SR Himalaya Grey.  All the reasons you've stated, a simple design and easy to clean, importantly they're not diamond cut which can take offence at gritted roads  :grin:.  I wanted something durable and not easy to crumple in the face of nasty unexpected pothole.

This is all really helpful advice and all are factors I've been thinking about. I'm not doing a fraction of the mileage you're doing so the value equation is entirely different for me.

I'm not driving like a loon, certainly not on a lot of the roads around here. Nothing dissuades you of the idea more than coming round the corner in the face of an agricultural vehicle with a selection of impalement options. I think stopping distances and grip - the grease you talk about is what I was hoping to get out of a tyre change more than anything else.

What's put me off doing it before is the narrow window of use - you're then tasked with managing the storage of the tyres and making sure they don't get flat spots and all of that. Not a problem but for a short period of value with pure winters, it doesn't make sense. Hence the question to the group to see what everyone was doing and if they had recommendations. I was thinking that if I got 4-5 months on the winter season tyres and the balance on summer, that would be fine but I'm not sure.

You're right, tyre technology has come on a lot in the last 10-15 years and there is a huge amount of choice. I've read a fair few reviews but quite a lot of subjective opinion with it and while it makes for great pictures going and thrashing a car around an ice like in Northern Sweden, it's not quite the same as the conditions in which I'll be relying on them!

I'll check out the Continentals. Thanks for the detailed reply again, much appreciated.
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Offline SRGTD

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: 06 December 2022, 09:42 »
This is all really helpful advice and all are factors I've been thinking about. I'm not doing a fraction of the mileage you're doing so the value equation is entirely different for me.

I'm not driving like a loon, certainly not on a lot of the roads around here. Nothing dissuades you of the idea more than coming round the corner in the face of an agricultural vehicle with a selection of impalement options. I think stopping distances and grip - the grease you talk about is what I was hoping to get out of a tyre change more than anything else.

What's put me off doing it before is the narrow window of use - you're then tasked with managing the storage of the tyres and making sure they don't get flat spots and all of that. Not a problem but for a short period of value with pure winters, it doesn't make sense. Hence the question to the group to see what everyone was doing and if they had recommendations. I was thinking that if I got 4-5 months on the winter season tyres and the balance on summer, that would be fine but I'm not sure.

You're right, tyre technology has come on a lot in the last 10-15 years and there is a huge amount of choice. I've read a fair few reviews but quite a lot of subjective opinion with it and while it makes for great pictures going and thrashing a car around an ice like in Northern Sweden, it's not quite the same as the conditions in which I'll be relying on them!

I'll check out the Continentals. Thanks for the detailed reply again, much appreciated.

If you’re worried about flat spots on tyres in storage, if the tyres are fitted to a second set of wheels you can store them on an inexpensive wheel tree. I’ve got one that sits in the corner of my garage and it takes up very little space, and most wheel trees also come with a cover that keeps everything clean while in storage.

I also put my stored wheels with tyres in a set of VW style wheel bags before putting them into storage on the ‘tree’. With the ‘tree’ cover over the whole assembly, they’re clean and ready for use when needed.



2020 Polo GTI Plus; Pure White, DSG (because they all are)
Gone but not forgotten;
2016 Polo GTI; Blue Silk
2011 mk6 Golf GTD; Carbon Grey
2007 mk5 Golf GT (2.0 170bhp TDI version); Deep Black Pearl
2002  mk4 Golf GTI (the 150 bhp diesel version); Deep Black Pearl

Offline AGB

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #15 on: 06 December 2022, 11:01 »
This is all really helpful advice and all are factors I've been thinking about. I'm not doing a fraction of the mileage you're doing so the value equation is entirely different for me.

I'm not driving like a loon, certainly not on a lot of the roads around here. Nothing dissuades you of the idea more than coming round the corner in the face of an agricultural vehicle with a selection of impalement options. I think stopping distances and grip - the grease you talk about is what I was hoping to get out of a tyre change more than anything else.

What's put me off doing it before is the narrow window of use - you're then tasked with managing the storage of the tyres and making sure they don't get flat spots and all of that. Not a problem but for a short period of value with pure winters, it doesn't make sense. Hence the question to the group to see what everyone was doing and if they had recommendations. I was thinking that if I got 4-5 months on the winter season tyres and the balance on summer, that would be fine but I'm not sure.

You're right, tyre technology has come on a lot in the last 10-15 years and there is a huge amount of choice. I've read a fair few reviews but quite a lot of subjective opinion with it and while it makes for great pictures going and thrashing a car around an ice like in Northern Sweden, it's not quite the same as the conditions in which I'll be relying on them!

I'll check out the Continentals. Thanks for the detailed reply again, much appreciated.

If you’re worried about flat spots on tyres in storage, if the tyres are fitted to a second set of wheels you can store them on an inexpensive wheel tree. I’ve got one that sits in the corner of my garage and it takes up very little space, and most wheel trees also come with a cover that keeps everything clean while in storage.

I also put my stored wheels with tyres in a set of VW style wheel bags before putting them into storage on the ‘tree’. With the ‘tree’ cover over the whole assembly, they’re clean and ready for use when needed.




I don't think I've seen a wheel tree. I've generally only seen the wall mount racks. That's a good suggestion and feels quite festive. Intentional?  :grin:

How stable are the wheels on it? Can you adjust the spread of the feet? My floor is a little slippy - it's a latex paint finish and I've noticed that it's quite easy to slide things on it. Where it would go is quite close to an expensive mistake...

I've solved the flat spot problem before with Race Ramps Flat Stoppers but that's on the GT4 with wheels on the car. Good product if you ever lay your car up for a period.
MK7 Clubsport S, 981 Cayman GT4, MK7.5 GTI TCR

Offline AGB

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: 06 December 2022, 11:15 »
I run Brescias w/ Michelin Pilot Sport 4S' in Summer and Belvederes w/ Goodyear Ultra Grip+ in winters. For reference my PS4S' are noticeably awful at the current 4-8 degree temperatures at 3mm depth and I don't have confidence in them for attacking any corners with any great gusto.

You will be disappointed with how the car looks on 18s regardless so you might as well just get a set of standard vw alloys and save some money in my opinion.

For Winter tyres you need conditions that are consistently below 7 degrees. Summer tyres are similar in they they perform best in heat  (12+ degrees imo), then All-season really do 0-12 degrees best but can be used all year.

As mentioned above the Michelin Climate 2s are actually extremely good for winter, and are able to sort of keep up with fully dedicated winter tyres in the latest tyre reviews and will be my choice once my winters wear out, I would do it sooner but they're on 6mm, so I can get another winter.

Thanks Will. I don't plan on attacking corners in winter or getting intimate with the hedgerows.  :grin:

The Pirellis and Cup Sport 2s on the cars are fine but I'm not going round corners in the way I would in summer but I thought the PS4s were supposed to much better in those conditions. I saw a Chris Harris interview on YouTube (think this is where I am getting the quote) and he was talking about the death of the hot hatch and the new Honda Civic. Think they mentioned the transformative effect of PS4s. I may be misquoting as I was doing dishes at the time and had it on the TV in the kitchen. I'm sure there'll be a Collecting Cars tyre along in a minute too!

I'm not bothered about aesthetics with the smaller tyres, this is more practically driven. Although being able to easily get a wheel woolie in the wheel arch could be a new novelty!

I feel all season is the choice to go for but it's the brand. I think the Cup Sport 2s are rated from 8 degrees if I recall which is lower than I expected.

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Offline AGB

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: 06 December 2022, 11:17 »
Just adding this to the thread as it might be helpful for others. Porsche Club of America do some really useful technical briefings, one they did which I saved out was on tyres (yeah, they spell it tires) but it has lots of useful information. I think I have an updated one but can't find it, concepts still similar.

https://www.pca.org/sites/default/files/Michelin-Tire-Technology-Steve-Calder-TTW-2018.pdf
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Offline SRGTD

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: 06 December 2022, 12:09 »
I don't think I've seen a wheel tree. I've generally only seen the wall mount racks. That's a good suggestion and feels quite festive. Intentional?  :grin:

How stable are the wheels on it? Can you adjust the spread of the feet? My floor is a little slippy - it's a latex paint finish and I've noticed that it's quite easy to slide things on it. Where it would go is quite close to an expensive mistake...

I've solved the flat spot problem before with Race Ramps Flat Stoppers but that's on the GT4 with wheels on the car. Good product if you ever lay your car up for a period.

Ha ha; no, no festive intentions :grin:.

Mine is pushed right into the corner of my garage so it’s pretty stable. I have accidentally nudged it with my car and it’s stayed in place. Not sure if you can get them with adjustable / extendable feet - I dare say they are available.
2020 Polo GTI Plus; Pure White, DSG (because they all are)
Gone but not forgotten;
2016 Polo GTI; Blue Silk
2011 mk6 Golf GTD; Carbon Grey
2007 mk5 Golf GT (2.0 170bhp TDI version); Deep Black Pearl
2002  mk4 Golf GTI (the 150 bhp diesel version); Deep Black Pearl

Offline AGB

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Re: Winter Wheel / Tyre Combination - Thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: 06 December 2022, 12:50 »
I don't think I've seen a wheel tree. I've generally only seen the wall mount racks. That's a good suggestion and feels quite festive. Intentional?  :grin:

How stable are the wheels on it? Can you adjust the spread of the feet? My floor is a little slippy - it's a latex paint finish and I've noticed that it's quite easy to slide things on it. Where it would go is quite close to an expensive mistake...

I've solved the flat spot problem before with Race Ramps Flat Stoppers but that's on the GT4 with wheels on the car. Good product if you ever lay your car up for a period.

Ha ha; no, no festive intentions :grin:.

Mine is pushed right into the corner of my garage so it’s pretty stable. I have accidentally nudged it with my car and it’s stayed in place. Not sure if you can get them with adjustable / extendable feet - I dare say they are available.

I might sell this to my wife as a robust Christmas tree stand and then repurpose it because it's the responsible thing to do.  :evil:

MK7 Clubsport S, 981 Cayman GT4, MK7.5 GTI TCR