Author Topic: You don’t fancy an 8R?  (Read 34772 times)

Offline Yusee

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #130 on: 22 February 2022, 10:29 »
touring for a family of 6.
Once again, it’s all about range. Matt Watson reckons just over 200 miles on his test.
Not good enough
Don't think I ever managed to go 200 miles without at least one family members needing the toilet. :grin:

Don’t mind stopping for that. Don’t fancy queuing for charge points though, I’d rather fill up with that filthy diesel stuff and not worry about fuel for days!
2018 Golf GTI Performance  5dr manual, Isaac blue
1988 Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9, 2022 Triumph Street Triple R, 2016 Seat Alhambra.

Offline Yusee

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #131 on: 22 February 2022, 10:53 »
Thinking again about this, would it be feasible to take one of these on a touring holiday?

How long would it take to charge for another, say, 200 miles, and would I get charging points in service stations across Europe?
2018 Golf GTI Performance  5dr manual, Isaac blue
1988 Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9, 2022 Triumph Street Triple R, 2016 Seat Alhambra.

Offline Exonian

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #132 on: 22 February 2022, 13:56 »
With the demise of ICE across Europe (subject to Adolf Putin’s plans and the idiots we collectively elect) then the BEV charging infrastructure will have to improve massively and very quickly. In the UK it will be a fudge as always but on the continent where drivers do have to cover great distances and the road networks aren’t based on what the Neanderthals and Romans left us with there will be excellent, clean facilities in the main areas. Maybe up in the mountains in remote areas you’ll struggle a little but as always people will adapt and technology moves fast, every problem will have a solution. So I don’t see touring holidays an issue so long as people prepare themselves properly.

Hertsman, problems like battery replacement will soon be much less of an issue as these vehicles become dominant. Detonating the engine in your £50k Golf R won’t be a £500 replacement motor from the scrappy shoved in by your mate Dave these days, we will be talking thousands and thousands of pounds/euros for a new engine. The modular design of BEV’s probably makes the physical swap over fairly straightforward and these current vehicles are likely quite primitive compared to what will be around the corner in five years. It’s transitional at the moment.
BEV’s are just mobile appliances in the main, but that’s what the general public want. Technology is moving fast so you’d not really consider many of the current crop as very long term investments so leasing and PCP’s are where it’s at. Somehow manufacturers and governments will have to make them reasonably affordable.

As Fred says, they’re ideally town cars where they are more efficient and where air pollution needs to be cut the most. To make them more effective over longer distances battery tech and charging speeds need to improve quickly.

Serious tourers and commercial buyers will probably have to stick with Diesel for a while yet.

Watching Thomas’s interview with VWG’s head of design was interesting. I always like to know how the machinations of organisations work but at around 26 minutes it’s reassuring to know that the Golf isn’t going to be abandoned any time soon and may yet evolve into another generation (possibly hinting that the ID.3 ain’t all that) owing to its heritage. It’s all about numbers for VW.
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https://youtu.be/usJabJTdN8w
« Last Edit: 22 February 2022, 13:59 by Exonian »
‘25 8.5R, ‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline Hertsman

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #133 on: 22 February 2022, 15:01 »
With the demise of ICE across Europe (subject to Adolf Putin’s plans and the idiots we collectively elect) then the BEV charging infrastructure will have to improve massively and very quickly. In the UK it will be a fudge as always but on the continent where drivers do have to cover great distances and the road networks aren’t based on what the Neanderthals and Romans left us with there will be excellent, clean facilities in the main areas. Maybe up in the mountains in remote areas you’ll struggle a little but as always people will adapt and technology moves fast, every problem will have a solution. So I don’t see touring holidays an issue so long as people prepare themselves properly.

Hertsman, problems like battery replacement will soon be much less of an issue as these vehicles become dominant. Detonating the engine in your £50k Golf R won’t be a £500 replacement motor from the scrappy shoved in by your mate Dave these days, we will be talking thousands and thousands of pounds/euros for a new engine. The modular design of BEV’s probably makes the physical swap over fairly straightforward and these current vehicles are likely quite primitive compared to what will be around the corner in five years. It’s transitional at the moment.
BEV’s are just mobile appliances in the main, but that’s what the general public want. Technology is moving fast so you’d not really consider many of the current crop as very long term investments so leasing and PCP’s are where it’s at. Somehow manufacturers and governments will have to make them reasonably affordable.

As Fred says, they’re ideally town cars where they are more efficient and where air pollution needs to be cut the most. To make them more effective over longer distances battery tech and charging speeds need to improve quickly.

Serious tourers and commercial buyers will probably have to stick with Diesel for a while yet.

Watching Thomas’s interview with VWG’s head of design was interesting. I always like to know how the machinations of organisations work but at around 26 minutes it’s reassuring to know that the Golf isn’t going to be abandoned any time soon and may yet evolve into another generation (possibly hinting that the ID.3 ain’t all that) owing to its heritage. It’s all about numbers for VW.
“Always go for the biggest wheels” A man after my own heart!
https://youtu.be/usJabJTdN8w

I am personally very open to EV, when the infrastructure, cost and the cars themselves are not just batteries on wheels with a Ipad screen bolted on, there is a reason that always lean towards something like a GTI and an R and an ID whatever just does not cut it, want something that you feel excited to have and drive.

Them EV cars do exist, but until they are pitched into the same segment as a GTI, R, S3 then ICE still wins, but good to read that maybe the Golf EV GTI/R is a thing to come.

In terms of battery replacement, understand that engine analogy, but a well maintained ICE engine will go on for many many years with still some residual value when selling, and of course the occasional blown one, where every battery pack will have a set lifetime in miles, where at end of life the car is a chuck away as battery replacement is more than car worth, and you would want lifetime battery guarantee on a faulty battery as be a nightmare at 5 years to have a battery fail (though this hopefully would be the same cadence as a blown engine)

If there was an EV out there, in the £40,000 price segment that had similar performance intentions to my TCR, with a 250-300 mile range and quick charge abilties wherever pulled up (have no drive) then I am in, but whole package is a mile off still and so am out.

Intend to run my TCR and an A1 SLine Competition for next 3 years and maybe move the A1 onto an EV if there is real progress
Present - BMW 128Ti Alpine White, 18" Performance Tyres, Sun Protection Glass, Parking Assist, Heated Steering, Boston Trim, Split Folding Rear Seats, Electric Lumbar Support
- 2nd car: 2019 Golf R DSG Pure White 19" Black Pretoria, Privacy Glass, Rear View Camera, Dynaudio, Keyless
- 2019 Pure Grey GTI TCR 5 Door DSG Reifinitz Wheel DCC Climate Screen 90% Tint
- 2016 Lapiz Blue Golf R 5 Door DSG Pretoria DCC
- 2013 Pure White GTD 5 Door DSG DCC

Offline fredgroves

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #134 on: 22 February 2022, 15:27 »
I'm still not sure where a Mk9 golf might fit into this.

If it will exist, it won't exist in the UK.

I like the sound of a cute Honda E style Mk1 Golf shaped EV though. Although just how Mk1 it actually will be is questionable - there are so many reasons why you wouldn't be allowed that shape and then on top you have to allow for the design detail needed for effecient air flow with an EV.
Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

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Offline Exonian

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #135 on: 22 February 2022, 16:26 »
Fred, there was a lot of discussion there about the Honda E, body-language suggests it’s been discussed at design level and the way the ID.2 might be configured may allow for a car like the Honda that looks similar to a mk1 Golf without infringing on Honda copyrights as a potential version? The ID.3 platform is too long for the retro boxy mk1 design but the ID.2 would support it and stay truer to the original squared off design. Hopefully a Scirocco too! Honda were quicker out of the blocks where maybe the VW board erred on the side of caution which they’ll now be rethinking and watching the Honda E sales globally.

The mk9 Golf was stated as being fully electric IF it happens. It sounded encouraging though. Maybe a battery integration like the MINI EV keeping the weight in the exhaust tunnel and fuel tank area would ensure the Golf’s handling was unaffected. We can forgive a bonnet without a gas strut if it almost never needs opening! 

Hertsman, you’d *hope* a well maintained ICE would last many years but with all the emissions crap I wouldn’t be so sure. I work with trucks and vans and the amount of emissions based issues are unreal on some of them. However, on a passenger car I’d expect it to last a good while whereas a battery has a finite life, but I’d imagine nearer ten years and by which time the tech in the EV would be very out of date.
Retained values are anyone’s guess. Certain ICE cars will remain in demand and fetch good money but as fuel becomes more and more expensive and fossil fuel stations become charging stations things will change and public perception of EV’s has changed hugely especially with the bombardment of advertising.

The A1 is quite a nice package btw, my son has a facelifted A3 S-Line and the interior quality difference and interior space between that and an A1 isn’t massive. He carefully looked at both as his girlfriend really wanted an A1 but ironically the A3 ended up cheaper on a business lease by quite a bit.
On a PCP I’d be interested to see the difference between a Polo GTI and A1 40 TFSI 2.0
‘25 8.5R, ‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline Snoopy

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #136 on: 22 February 2022, 16:45 »
The battery life thing banded by ICE diehards is always bounced about.
I know of a fleet of leaf taxis in York with mega miles.
 There's even specialists in America who will repair tesla battery's and only replace faulty cells not replace the entire battery.
Think I've watched on YouTube an independent specialist here doing a leaf the same.
Manufactures seem to warranty battery's for longer. 8yrs 100,000 miles was one I noticed the other day.

Charging is getting faster and therefore taking less time to 'refuel' , don't know the IDBuzz spec.
I know a quick toilet stop seems to always end up including a human refuel.  :grin: So.

I keep my cars a long time. 10+ years. I was thinking of a Bini SE but I think it's too early in my case as I do so low mileage now.

« Last Edit: 22 February 2022, 16:50 by Snoopy »
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Offline Hertsman

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #137 on: 22 February 2022, 18:56 »
Fred, there was a lot of discussion there about the Honda E, body-language suggests it’s been discussed at design level and the way the ID.2 might be configured may allow for a car like the Honda that looks similar to a mk1 Golf without infringing on Honda copyrights as a potential version? The ID.3 platform is too long for the retro boxy mk1 design but the ID.2 would support it and stay truer to the original squared off design. Hopefully a Scirocco too! Honda were quicker out of the blocks where maybe the VW board erred on the side of caution which they’ll now be rethinking and watching the Honda E sales globally.

The mk9 Golf was stated as being fully electric IF it happens. It sounded encouraging though. Maybe a battery integration like the MINI EV keeping the weight in the exhaust tunnel and fuel tank area would ensure the Golf’s handling was unaffected. We can forgive a bonnet without a gas strut if it almost never needs opening! 

Hertsman, you’d *hope* a well maintained ICE would last many years but with all the emissions crap I wouldn’t be so sure. I work with trucks and vans and the amount of emissions based issues are unreal on some of them. However, on a passenger car I’d expect it to last a good while whereas a battery has a finite life, but I’d imagine nearer ten years and by which time the tech in the EV would be very out of date.
Retained values are anyone’s guess. Certain ICE cars will remain in demand and fetch good money but as fuel becomes more and more expensive and fossil fuel stations become charging stations things will change and public perception of EV’s has changed hugely especially with the bombardment of advertising.

The A1 is quite a nice package btw, my son has a facelifted A3 S-Line and the interior quality difference and interior space between that and an A1 isn’t massive. He carefully looked at both as his girlfriend really wanted an A1 but ironically the A3 ended up cheaper on a business lease by quite a bit.
On a PCP I’d be interested to see the difference between a Polo GTI and A1 40 TFSI 2.0

Was actually looking at the Polo GTI and we went and looked at a standard Polo at weekend in Milton Keynes and despite being bare trim, it was still a nice car to sit in, and think with the IQ lights and the DRL running length of bonnet the GTI really looks the part, especially as would add the optional 18" and Panoramic roof to the Glacier White.

However, we then went up to the Audi garage and saw a new S Line A1 and wife just preferred it, maybe simply because she loves her outgoing A1 Black Edition, which the only downside to, is it lacks some of the modern tech have in my TCR and that she now got used to, so parking sensors, rear view camera and heated seats are on her mandatory list.

As always its basically the same car as the GTI just little bit more trim and price tag.

The thing is, my allowance covers my TCR and likely a Clubsport if wanted to just change the TCR, its the BIK thats been the increasing reason to not go like for like this time around, and a fully specced A1 Competition, even though not cheap would be under my allowance and greatly reduced in BIK, so selling the present A1 to partially fund my TCR and getting the A1 just makes sense, and we may even buy it after the 3 years (so maybe will option more than would normally do, a bit of a punt to do that, but if do purchase you have car would really want)

The base of all this thinking on how to profile our cars, is that really would have been sad to hand the TCR back, and thats never happened before as always quite excited about the replacement. So keeping the TCR is something very happy about and will be a complete keeper till its a an EV world and only allowed out to play at weekends :) 

Not actually got to sit in a competition, but have sat in a black edition, and its a really nice package, feels lot bigger than our present A1, which will say is solidly built, looks the part, and performs brilliantly, its just little behind in tech being a 14 plate.

The A1 would do the grunt miles and the TCR would be well used still, but not the workhorse, and maybe would get a little more love as not on main family duties (going to get black wrap on roof as first treat)

Have to push the buttons in March and not excluded the Polo GTI as personally really liked it, but with none in country cannot see one in flesh, but the A1 Competition is the front runner at moment which hopefully will get a test drive in to see how punchy the 207BHP is

You mention son going for an A3 as on business lease it was cheaper, and have seen the same curveballs on company ordering system, my previous R was loads cheaper than an Astra GTC for example, so I still have to see the numbers, though reassuringly, looking at other lease sites, the A1 competition is a lot lot cheaper than Clubsport/R which would have been my normal change.
Present - BMW 128Ti Alpine White, 18" Performance Tyres, Sun Protection Glass, Parking Assist, Heated Steering, Boston Trim, Split Folding Rear Seats, Electric Lumbar Support
- 2nd car: 2019 Golf R DSG Pure White 19" Black Pretoria, Privacy Glass, Rear View Camera, Dynaudio, Keyless
- 2019 Pure Grey GTI TCR 5 Door DSG Reifinitz Wheel DCC Climate Screen 90% Tint
- 2016 Lapiz Blue Golf R 5 Door DSG Pretoria DCC
- 2013 Pure White GTD 5 Door DSG DCC

Offline Snoopy

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #138 on: 23 February 2022, 12:14 »
Thinking again about this, would it be feasible to take one of these on a touring holiday?

How long would it take to charge for another, say, 200 miles, and would I get charging points in service stations across Europe?
I watched the late brake show earlier on the IDbuzz
Think he said 35min to charge from 10-80% on a 125Kw charger. Think the bloke later in video said it can use upto 135Kw charging.
« Last Edit: 23 February 2022, 12:22 by Snoopy »
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Offline Yusee

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Re: You don’t fancy an 8R?
« Reply #139 on: 23 February 2022, 13:43 »
Thinking again about this, would it be feasible to take one of these on a touring holiday?

How long would it take to charge for another, say, 200 miles, and would I get charging points in service stations across Europe?
I watched the late brake show earlier on the IDbuzz
Think he said 35min to charge from 10-80% on a 125Kw charger. Think the bloke later in video said it can use upto 135Kw charging.

Thanks for that. For me, that confirms these cars aren’t yet appropriate for serious mileage.
It’s an interesting car though and I’m hoping that the range/ infrastructure issue will be resolved by the next generation cars.
2018 Golf GTI Performance  5dr manual, Isaac blue
1988 Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9, 2022 Triumph Street Triple R, 2016 Seat Alhambra.