Revisiting "which hot hatch March 2020"

[fredgroves]

I found a really good fleet website which provides data on all currently available models to help fleet managers work out what to select.

You can compare up to 5 vehicles and it gives you all sorts of numbers around total cost of ownership.

Here are my 5 contenders for my next car: I30N, Civic Type R GT, Golf TCR, Audi S3 and BMW M135i. (I have picked specific variants).

Have a look at this.... I think you might be very surprised at the rankings when you look at the total cost per mile:

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-costs/compare-list/19042660,19070872,19145584,19074802,19064467

(if you are looking at this in the future, that link might not work if any of those models are no longer available from new)

Obviously the length of ownership and mileage per year are mine (3 years, 20,000 miles).

[Exonian]

TCR residuals look good then 

[fredgroves]

TCR residuals look good then 

No, they are terrible - which I talked about before.

The most interesting thing I think here is that the I30N actually holds up pretty well.... but you need to factor in stuff beyond the numbers, like "could I actually cope with living in one of these for 3 years and 60,000 miles".... after a test drive i might feel like its being a frog in a liquidiser.

60,000 miles at an average speed of 38mph (a rough long term average from my Golf) is just over 65 days (24hrs - double that if you think 12 hour days). That's a long time to be shut in a crap place.

[mcmaddy]

i30N is actually really nice to drive but it's the fuel economy that will kill you not the ride which is very nice.

[Yusee]

Autocar used to do a “ cheap fast cars” supplement in the 90s- the best second hand bargains.
If they still did that, the TCR would be first on the list in a couple of years.
It’s running costs are actually pretty good-  it’s the high purchase price that stuffs it

[Exonian]

Of the cars on the list fredgroves put up the only one I’d have bought new would have been the M135i and I do have some small regrets that I didn’t purchase one myself.
The good residuals are *predicted* as it’s a fresh model so fairly future-proof assuming it gets accepted by the market. And I do think it will.

However you can never write off a special edition Golf GTI but the mileage and condition are paramount for cars of that ilk unless they get some sort of cult status. The TCR is very unlikely to gain that but it’s very popular with enthusiasts. .
I bought mine to be used daily unlike my Clubsport which was bought for occasional use.
My Ed40 fetched strong money and they’re in good demand but I fear the TCR will bomb a bit like my R did.

I took my son to hospital the other day for a minor operation on his foot. The earliest appointment was in a tiny cottage hospital on the edge of Dartmoor so he accepted that. I elected to drive him there leisurely via the country roads rather than the dual carriageway. One thing my son picked up on which I’d never really noticed was the fact the TCR got massive respect from white van drivers and construction workers! One lad wearing a hard hat actually walked out into the road off his site after I’d breezed by to watch the car from behind for the next quarter of a mile until I rounded the next bend. I was only ambling slowly too.
The reason I mention that is because those types of guys will be the next owners of our type of cars a few years down the line. If there’s a good bit of interest and respect from lads who will be in the market for two, three, four or more year old hot hatches then the values stay strong on them. I’d expect the TCR to be on parity with a well specced R in used values.

Anyway, from that list, buying new it’d be the M135i for me all day long.
Buying used (Ex-Demo or pre-reg’d) it’d be a toss up between the TCR and 135i.

Fair play to the i30N for its price and overall projected costs, possibly a good leasing option then if deals spring up? Could be a bit hardcore for 20k a year where you know the GTI and 135i will just swallow the miles.


S3? Meh.

[fredgroves]

I'd have loved to have put a Mk7.5 GTI PP into that mix (or better still a Mk8 GTI) but I can't because neither is current production.

The TCR is no more expensive to run than a GTI PP (well maybe a little fuel, but not much) its just the rubbish depreciation on it - driven by it being heavily loaded with kit vs a PP.

The two surprises here are

1) the I30N being cheapest - despite the terrible fuel economy and it being virtually worthless after 60k.
2) The super expensive BMW is cheap to service and not terrible on fuel vs the rest and with a stonking residual value - which BTW BMW finance are predicting as well in their PCP quotes - its not necessarily the actual number, but they are offering it.

Nobody is surprised that the Audi is the most expensive!

I think what this whole thing suggests is that VW have a fight on their hands - they clearly were the winners with the Mk7 throughout its life, but they need to get the UK spec for the Mk8 GTI right and need to get the resulting price right. Rolling out with a 37k basic list, the BMW is going to trash them. It's no longer ugly, its no longer small, its no longer a generation behind.

[Yusee]

Of the cars on the list fredgroves put up the only one I’d have bought new would have been the M135i and I do have some small regrets that I didn’t purchase one myself.
The good residuals are *predicted* as it’s a fresh model so fairly future-proof assuming it gets accepted by the market. And I do think it will.

However you can never write off a special edition Golf GTI but the mileage and condition are paramount for cars of that ilk unless they get some sort of cult status. The TCR is very unlikely to gain that but it’s very popular with enthusiasts. .
I bought mine to be used daily unlike my Clubsport which was bought for occasional use.
My Ed40 fetched strong money and they’re in good demand but I fear the TCR will bomb a bit like my R did.

I took my son to hospital the other day for a minor operation on his foot. The earliest appointment was in a tiny cottage hospital on the edge of Dartmoor so he accepted that. I elected to drive him there leisurely via the country roads rather than the dual carriageway. One thing my son picked up on which I’d never really noticed was the fact the TCR got massive respect from white van drivers and construction workers! One lad wearing a hard hat actually walked out into the road off his site after I’d breezed by to watch the car from behind for the next quarter of a mile until I rounded the next bend. I was only ambling slowly too.
The reason I mention that is because those types of guys will be the next owners of our type of cars a few years down the line. If there’s a good bit of interest and respect from lads who will be in the market for two, three, four or more year old hot hatches then the values stay strong on them. I’d expect the TCR to be on parity with a well specced R in used values.

Anyway, from that list, buying new it’d be the M135i for me all day long.
Buying used (Ex-Demo or pre-reg’d) it’d be a toss up between the TCR and 135i.

Fair play to the i30N for its price and overall projected costs, possibly a good leasing option then if deals spring up? Could be a bit hardcore for 20k a year where you know the GTI and 135i will just swallow the miles.


S3? Meh.

My brother is a big car enthusiast. He has had a lancia delta integrale for over 10 years. He says almost every time he drives it he gets a thumbs up from tradesmen- white van man. When I bought my pug he told me that’s where the attention would come from- sure enough that’s what I’ve found.
Interesting your TCR gets that reaction- I haven’t had anyone acknowledge my golf! White van knows his nurburgring lap times. Either that or he doesn’t like Parkers

[Exonian]

My brother is a big car enthusiast. He has had a lancia delta integrale for over 10 years. He says almost every time he drives it he gets a thumbs up from tradesmen- white van man. When I bought my pug he told me that’s where the attention would come from- sure enough that’s what I’ve found.
Interesting your TCR gets that reaction- I haven’t had anyone acknowledge my golf! White van knows his nurburgring lap times. Either that or he doesn’t like Parkers

What an awesome car your brother has!
Something fully deserving of a thumbs up and a great investment too I’d imagine.
I’ve never been in one but these were the cars lads of my generation would aspire to, those mad rally homologation specials from a golden era of the sport.

The TCR doesn’t get thumbs up signs 
It does seem to bring out uncharacteristic manners in white van drivers though, or at least it did on Tuesday morning  maybe they thought it was was a cop car at first?!


Back on topic (although the Integrale deserves a thread of its own  ) does the Golf R show as an option on the list fredgroves? Or is the TCR the only remaining performance Golf in production? Well, I’m sure there are more GTI P’s and R’s actually in (last off the line) production than TCRs but the latter is less likely to have a buyer’s signature against it owing to the mad retail price, so maybe has some actual availability.
These TCRs will end up like the Clubsports, punted out to dealers to pre-register and will be relative bargains in a few months if there’s no clamour to buy them.

When I was last at work a few weeks ago I had a nose through ex-demo 135i’s one quiet night and they were really good value, if the retained values are going to be as strong as predicted in the trade as per the link then a 135i with a couple thousand miles on the clock would make a wise purchase right now.

[fredgroves]

There is the R on there, it comes out about the same as the tcr. You'd definitely be daft to choose that over a m135i.