Is a Pedalbox worth while?

[Sootchucker]

Actually very light segue, and something I've never quite figured out. If you have a DSG transmission, and set your driving mode profile to "individual" and engine to "Sport", you can see the gearbox move to "S" mode. If you keep it at that, turn off the engine then re-start it, the gearbox defaults back to "D" mode. So does that mean even if you have "Sport" selected in the driving mode profile, that it resets the engine map back to "normal"? Or do you still have the "Sport" map for the engine active, but just the gearbox defaults back to normal.

I honestly can't be 100% certain either way ?

[monkeyhanger]

Engine (and throttle response) is in Sport mode still, but gearbox changing thresholds revert to D on every ignition cycle.

[Exonian]

I would really like see a census on opinions for pedal boxes.

1. Manual box - yes, get one
2. Manual box - no, don't bother.
3. DSG6 - yes, get one
4. DSG6 - no, don't bother
5. DSG7 - yes, get one
6. DSG7 - no, don't bother

Could someone put a poll in if they have the knowhow?

Looking at posts over the years on the subject, it does seem more of the DSG owners think they benefit greatly from having one.

The way DSG slips clutches and feathers changes in for comfort and smoothness in all situations except launch control, I do wonder whether poor pedal response is attributed to that and the decision time DSG takes for changing down or staying with the gear it's already in, rather than throttle pedal being dull. Either that or people sticking the car in eco mode and expecting sport/race mode pedal response (as a recent poster in eco mode asked about pedalboxes).

I could put the poll up no bother but I think a lot of people have moved on from here over the years so it’ll be skewed.
By chance I had a notification of a “like” on VWROC very recently for a post I put up some years ago regarding pedalboxes which came as a bit of a surprise as I rarely venture over into those pastures these days. (Obviously a new member researching.)
One of dozens of posts I’ve put up about the things over the years and I’ve long since run out of different ways of describing how they work and what they do to remove the inch thick layer of porridge programmed into the accelerator pedal electronics. Just goes to show the debate still rages and I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve told myself just to stop repeating the same old.

Well, six and a bit years on I’ve now moved to DSG and will still echo your thoughts on it Matt, but I can safely say that the annoying lag is even more evident with the irritating DSG clutch slipping so the pedal box comes into its own just as much as a manual. A Pedalbox with a firm but gentle prod when pulling away in D does alleviate some of the clutch slip by telling the gearbox you want a firm but positive move instead of an impression of reluctantly getting out of bed on a Monday morning. 

[monkeyhanger]

My thoughts for the poll were maybe that this huge problem (for some) of dead pedal was perhaps a combination of multiple things - e.g.Turbo lag (presumed to be more prevalent on an R with bigger turbo than GTI), the feathering in of DSG, and maybe people rolling around in anything less than Sport/Race mode.

I've never felt that the pedal response was leggy on any of my VWs (but I have never put them in Nornal or Eco). I do find great umbrage with the DSG feathering, especially when pulling away from a standstill. Like the GTD, my Polo GTI+ has no LSD, so I'm always wary of tramping (which is easy to do in either car). With the DSG though, that feathering in/clutch slip does give a delay in moving rather than the positive bite of a manual clutch, so at times you end up giving more gas, upping the torque, and when that feathering in gives way to positive bite, you end up tramping.

You can get it perfect and shoot off remarkably quick without tramping, but usually it is through letting go of the foot brake with no throttle about 1/2 a second before you want to move and when you get that positive bite, you then hit the accelerator. It takes some practice to get it right - to anticipate when you want the car to move and delay prodding the throttle.

So I was theorizing that maybe putting the throttle on a hair trigger helps compensate some of the wait attributable to turbo lag and DSG feathering.

If that were the case, I'd expect DSG Rs to be most in need of a  pedal box and Manual GTIs to be in least need of one - if they're not contributing to dead pedal by running Normal/Eco.

This feathering in of the DSG demonstrates to me that DSG isn't incredibly robust next to a manual box (supposedly handles greater torque that would cook a manual clutch), but is good at self preservation, with the ability to ease those gear changes in and maybe ease up/change down to prevent too much torque going through it. The DSG box seems to avoid letting you put your foot down in 4th at 60mph to capitalise on its torque, and will always look to kick down in that situation.

This is probably why you supposedly only have 200 goes at launch control - no feathering of the clutches into 1st from a standstill or subsequent up shifts being brutal on the DSG box.

[Watts]

Just a thought on the DSG lack of initial response. Rather than taking your foot off the brake a moment before when you want to go, couldn't you give the throttle a light press whilst holding it on the brakes so it's primed and ready to go? I used to do this with my Audi which had the Multitronic (CVT) gearbox and hesitated on pulling away

[Exonian]

MH - the Pedalbox doesn’t necessarily mean a hair trigger.
For those old enough to remember, a 205 GTI had hair-trigger throttle pedals (that was half their fun but could be jerky in traffic).
The K-jetronic mk2 Golf GTI’s had great throttle response without being too eager on the take up, whereas the much bemoaned Digifant was supposedly more efficient yet felt like the air flap was connected to a brick! 
The Simos in the late mk3’s resolved the dead responses but by that time it was too late for the humble non turbo GTI’s as they’d been strangled in other ways and the world had moved on.

A Pedalbox can make a mk7 like a 205GTI but most have it set up to be more like K-jet rather than Digifant.


Watts - the DSG removes any tactile manual interaction between human and machine replacing it with a digital interface. Like any digital thing, it’s only as clever as the programming so it’s the human that has to adapt. Some willingly bow to all its idiosyncrasies and some less so.
One has to work around the programming or at least dig deeper to look for the clever ways the developers have worked real world usability into a limited interface. A firm prod on the go-pedal wakes it up as to your intentions removing the need for Sport mode even if you have to feather the brake afterwards. Handy for junctions, fast roundabouts and even overtaking so long as you show it your anticipation and intention as opposed to it staying in lazy mode.

[Yusee]

May be old hat, but I do enjoy these pedal box threads- and I may still get one at some stage.
The poor initial throttle response was the one slightly disappointing thing about my manual 7.5 when I first bought it. It has bothered me less the more I've driven, I think because I have adapted my driving.
Throttle response is actually excellent- so long as your foot is already a little way down- and you can almost always anticipate situations when you need this - and the initial response is perfectly good for most of the driving I do, which is steady moving commuter traffic. I also wonder whether the dulled initial response makes it easier to drive in slow/crawling traffic- I don't have to constantly declutch and coast as I do in the 205! I could be wrong.

[hobbes22]

I felt the Mk 7 manual needed one, but the 7.5 PP DSG is definitely improved and i don't feel the need to get one.

[fredgroves]

There are some interesting things in this thread - one bunch of people saying the DSG is like a dead badger and others saying, no its the manual that's like 4 day old roadkill.

I'm guessing that for most its not actually an issue at all?

If you think its the DSG that is the problem, has nobody thought of the DSG software upgrade? I know its been out there for some time now, but not seen anyone say that they have had it done??

[fredgroves]

BTW here is the poll some people asked for: https://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=286173.0