Hypothetical question

[Sootchucker]

Was having a drink with my mate last night, and as usual we got onto the subject of cars. One question which popped up (totally hypothetical of course), was with an R having "just" a 55ps greater power output that a GTI PP but of course AWD, how much of the approx 1.6 seconds better 0-60 (4.6 vs 6.2) is down to power and how much down to the AWD ?

Furthermore, in this make believe world of mine, if VW had of produced a MK7.5 245ps GTI but equipped it with AWD, how much would that shave of it's 0-60 ?

My mate went onto to say that (like me) when he had his MK7 GTD, the official 0-60 time was around 7.5 seconds. It's sister car the Audi A3 sportback was available with the same 183ps engine in S-Line trim, but with AWD, and if I remember correctly, the 0-60 time on that car was down to around 6.8 seconds (so 0.7 seconds quicker just with AWD), and I think the A3 sportback was also slightly heavier. Sadly this wasn't available on the GTD (and never was). Obviously the car's aren't the same so it's a bit of a moot point anyway.

So there's no real purpose around the question and it will (and has) never happen, but just to conclude our discussion, what are your thoughts ?

[clubsport]

Look at performance figures for the TCR as a 2wd comparison, weight is another consideration in addition to bhp & driven wheels.
CS for a manual comparison?

[Exonian]

You could probably lose several years of your life watching YouTube vids of drag races to scientifically prove the result!

If purely looking at off the line acceleration then traction plays a massive part.
The Clubsport had 35PS more than a GTI PP of its time and the same torque when not in overboost and yet had very little, if any, advantage over the GTI PP unless going quite a bit faster than 60 mph off the line. Basically the power was just spun away and third gear overboost not reached (or barely at best) at such speed.
I doubt even the TCR with yet more power and torque in first and second gear than a Clubsport would be more than a few tenths ahead.

Another factor is how high the engine revs before the power tails off.
The R produces BHP and torque further up the rev range than the GTI Performance which also means higher rev change points which shaves important fractions in DSG but even more in a manual.
https://youtu.be/7OVr7eWSex8

Off the line the 4WD makes a massive difference if it doesn’t bog down (which it can if you don’t get it perfect)

https://youtu.be/IP8W7DnVKkM (TCR and R similar power and torque)

[Hertsman]

my 2 x Audi 2.0 TDi Quattro might have had the advantage of the AWD but you still sat there waiting for the turbo to spool up before it launched itself, there was a micro second (that seemed an eternity) of nothing as pressed pedal, and then everything, which think in these 8P chassis Diesel Turbo of the time you really had to have the AWD as you be spinning wheels at every pull away given the engine behaviour

Those Quattro were not agile in anyway and ride was a back breaker on a rough surface, but did grow to love their solid/heavy on the rails capabilities,

As Exonian says, so many variables to consider, weight, tyres, engine and gear box mapping etc and so on.

The bog down resonated as something had to get used to as not expected, you always think with AWD is plant the accelerator and go, but sometimes you did that and for that micro second if felt like you were glued to the tarmac before it launched away.

[dean5125]

I think it's 95 percent down to the traction with the R, if you look at some of the drag races done the R gets off the line almost cartoon like initially!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZElU-y9HQHE

around 1 minute in!

Only issue I'd have is IF they did a AWD GTI it would kill the light on its feet feeling of the car! I think VW have it bang on with the line up as it is!!

Nice original post/question btw!

[Philip]

Another vote for traction.  The R and TCR have very similar power and torque output but the power to weight ratio of the TCR is higher courtesy of the extra 170kg the R carries with the AWD drivetrain, and the mighty CSS took that even further at nearly 240kg lighter than the R, yet both TCR and CSS are significantly slower than the R in the traffic light grand prix.  Once on the move it's a very different story   

[Ryan90GTI]

Traction, 100%. There was a video of a Golf R vs Seat Leon Cupra 290 and the Leon beats it round the track.

The instant grip and pull from the Golf R is incredible but it doesn't feels as nimble and light as a GTI.

[dean5125]

Traction, 100%. There was a video of a Golf R vs Seat Leon Cupra 290 and the Leon beats it round the track.

The instant grip and pull from the Golf R is incredible but it doesn't feels as nimble and light as a GTI.

Wasn't this one by any chance was it Ryan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5dRujiHbpA

Old clip but I can't tell you how many times I watched it while deciding and waiting to pick up my first R!!!

I fell in love with the Lapiz blue because of this vid..... not sure how I ended up with a white one though!!!

[CookieMonsterGTi]

Another hypothetical question...  Would you have got the R over the GTI all things being equal apart from AWD v FWD and the associated price increase?

[rajb]

Another one for the AWD being the key. 0-60 is all about traction. You can have all the power you want but if you can't put it down then it's going to kill the times.