Author Topic: GPF active cycles?  (Read 13804 times)

Offline Grahamt

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #10 on: 04 January 2020, 19:42 »
Can't say I've noticed any difference in mine since purchase.

So far done 5k miles, mostly minimum of 10 miles but many longer.

I read up as extensively as I could before buying mine and from my research the GPF doesn't really have an active cycle, nothing is injected like a DPF. The soot it burnt off by ensuring an oxygen rich environment where it self ignites,  the oxygen rich environment is created each time the car is on a trailing throttle and if that isn't sufficient to burn soot out of the GPF the engine management system retards the ignition timing to help create one.

I seem to recall my reading on the subject was based on some Mercedes Benz info found on the internet.

I was thinking of running something like obd11 to see if I could see anything happening but I've not done that yet.

All my DPF equipt cars I run torque app or similar  which mostly tells me  the dpf temperature but I believe there are no external measuring probes fitted to a GPF system

If some one reading this knows how best to monitor the GPF please let us know.
Golf 7.5 GTI, 2019MY, DSG, Atlantic blue, 90% rear tints.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #11 on: 04 January 2020, 22:46 »
Ok, not many people reporting active GPF/OPF regeneration with their performance Golfs, but pretty much everyone reporting experiencing their first one with their Polo GTI is doing so at around 4k miles. Maybe there's a "just in case" cycle programmed in for the Polo's EA888 3b variant engine that isn't present on the Golf's EA888 3 variant? Perhaps as a result of the audi valve-lift tech on the inlet and use of Budack-cycle for greater economy under low load?

From what I have read, petrol cars generally run with a stoichiometrically correct fuel:air mix (just the right ratio, no sizeable excess of air), so injecting fuel into the exhaust system is a waste of time because there is almost no oxygen in the exhaust gas to ignite it. The petrol exhaust is up to temp (in excess of 550C) in a matter of a few miles due to petrol engines chucking so much of the engine's output away in the exhaust (diesels are more economical because more energy released in ignition is converted into kinetic energy that the  drivetrain can make use of).

So after 2 miles from cold, the petrol engine has the fuel source (the soot), the heat, but not necessarily the oxygen (ever heard of the combustion triangle in Chemistry lessons?). By comparison, diesels have the oxygen, the fuel (soot), but not necessarily the heat on shorter journeys, necessitating ignition of fuel in the exhaust system to raise the temp during an active or forced regen.

Excess oxygen in the exhaust of a petrol engine comes from engine braking ("motoring the engine"), as the engine under no load requires no fuel and just compresses air to get rid through the exhaust while doing so.

It seems to me then, a lack of ideal conditions to passively combust soot collected in a GPF/OPF is down to the driver never easing off the accelerator to allow oxygen rich air into the exhaust. So you could blame it on driving style if someone is either on the accelerator or brake, never letting the car slow down under no load.

I could quite easily believe this of my wife's driving style- she brakes a lot more than me, and her car always runs a bit better after I've had it.

Some of the blame could also be attributed to everyone having a DSG box now. Running in auto mode, engine braking is negligible, the engine always seems to be getting some fuel even when you've come off the accelerator because the rate of deceleration in any particular gear with no throttle input seems much less with DSG than with a manual box.

There's definitely something happening with GPF/OPF equipped cars to forcibly clear the load as it builds up. My guess is it combusts under low fuel concentration and an oxygen excess so that some oxygen is available to the exhaust. I found the mpg drop unbelievable 1/3 drop in fuel economy for 2 x 8 mile journeys.

I prefer my Polo GTI+ without GPF to the wife's with GPF.
« Last Edit: 04 January 2020, 22:53 by monkeyhanger »
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Offline Jim_mk7.5

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #12 on: 05 January 2020, 07:42 »
We have a pre WLTP (no GPF) Polo GTI+ and a WLTP GTI+ (with GPF) in the household and the difference between the 2 is quite pronounced. The one without feels a good 10% more powerful, is slightly more economical and the exhaust note is much better. The one with GPF is far flatter in the midrange.



Interesting - have you watched the Carwow video of the pre WTLP RS3 vs post WTLP RS3? Worth a watch as includes dyno runs. They make their power in different places.

https://youtu.be/pACT2SUBI_c
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Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #13 on: 05 January 2020, 09:57 »
We have a pre WLTP (no GPF) Polo GTI+ and a WLTP GTI+ (with GPF) in the household and the difference between the 2 is quite pronounced. The one without feels a good 10% more powerful, is slightly more economical and the exhaust note is much better. The one with GPF is far flatter in the midrange.



Interesting - have you watched the Carwow video of the pre WTLP RS3 vs post WTLP RS3? Worth a watch as includes dyno runs. They make their power in different places.

https://youtu.be/pACT2SUBI_c

Just watched it. I see a bit of that between the 2 Polos. My pre WLTP one is significantly better in the mid range. In the lower end, in lower gears (like pulling away, to 20mph), the throttle response seems livelier on the post WLTP one, but it doesn't feel any quicker there (almost like a pedalbox effect - less press for same response). Top end? There doesn't seem much between the 2.

I don't have a dyno, but I do a rolling start between 2 signs on a local dual carriageway to assess differences, from 20mph.

My R reached 98mph when passing the second marker, my MK7 GTD reached 81mph stock and 86mph with a DTUK box on. My 2018 Polo GTI+ manages 85mph and the wife's 2019 model (with GPF) manages 83mph.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
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Offline Talk-torque

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #14 on: 05 January 2020, 11:27 »
So, it looks like they try to tune out the resulting restriction as evenly as possible across the rev range, which is what you might expect, I guess. Maybe another thing that would be different for an engine designed to have a GPF from the getgo.
Roger.

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Online fredgroves

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #15 on: 05 January 2020, 12:04 »
When they introduced dpf with euro 5 the difference was quite noticeable. I had two identical cars back to back and the euro 5 was noticeably down on power. These particle filters are a restriction on the exhaust, everyone knows that has an effect. However it's the way of the world and what's gone is gone.
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Offline topher

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #16 on: 06 January 2020, 00:25 »
as with DPF systems, the GPF will actively regenerate when it needs to. Search for the self study program "SSP 558" if you want to learn more. https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-558-close-coupled-petrol-particulate-filter/

Offline Grahamt

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #17 on: 06 January 2020, 20:59 »
as with DPF systems, the GPF will actively regenerate when it needs to. Search for the self study program "SSP 558" if you want to learn more. https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-558-close-coupled-petrol-particulate-filter/

A very interesting document, thanks for the posting.

So it seems an active cycle is every 2000kms, can't say I've noticed mine being done, I guess that's a good thing
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Online fredgroves

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #18 on: 07 January 2020, 08:50 »
So it seems an active cycle is every 2000kms, can't say I've noticed mine being done, I guess that's a good thing

As someone who's had a lot of Euro 6 oil burners... most of the time you don't notice the DPF regens. Sometimes you do.

A GPF is much smaller than a DPF so I'd guess the regen is much quicker, so chances of you spotting it doing it are minimal I'd guess.

The main thing I spot with a DPF regen is either the fan raging after I park up (when the weather is not blazing hot) or at traffic lights when the idle revs are 1k more than normal tickover and start-stop won't kick in despite all of the other conditions being met.
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Offline dean5125

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Re: GPF active cycles?
« Reply #19 on: 07 January 2020, 08:57 »
as with DPF systems, the GPF will actively regenerate when it needs to. Search for the self study program "SSP 558" if you want to learn more. https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-558-close-coupled-petrol-particulate-filter/

A very interesting document, thanks for the posting.

So it seems an active cycle is every 2000kms, can't say I've noticed mine being done, I guess that's a good thing

I knew it was doing a regen of some sort!! It is very subtle and is nothing more than a slight increase in exhaust volume in my case, with the stereo on I doubt you'd even notice it, no rough idle, no loss of performance for day to day driving or any warning lights as suggested early!!

I would like to just say before the sound of regen cycles start scaring folks, I've had my GTI for about 6 months and it has only done it twice in that time but I put it massively down to my very short work commute, at less than 1 mile I'm guessing this is way from the norm and yes I could walk but I work hard to have a nice car and I'm going to bloody well use it!!! plus it does sound lovely on cold start in the morning! :laugh:
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