All a bit quiet on the CS-S front.....

[monkeyhanger]

^ If that ever happened where you had to qualify to purchase an R400, it would make more sense to qualify as a current R owner who bought directly from a franchised dealership (not leased). There are less than 400 of us in the country who bought an R rather than leased, right? 

Will never happen though. It'll be first come-first-served for each dealership's allocation with the lucky recipient getting little or no discount.

CSS owners HAVE to hope they get the residuals they're hoping for as they're already £5k down on a normal GTI or R owner for having had no discount on it.

[GT4]

I also believe this will give the green light for the R400 and one of the pre-requisite for R400 purchase will be CS-S purchase and retention, just like with Porsche GT cars ... You only flip once then thats you off any future list/s 

There is absolutely no way that will happen, come on!  It's a VW not a Ferrari!

I do hope you're right about them making an R400 however as it would be a monster of a car.  But you can only buy one if you've owned a CS-S - honestly! 

Match boy - I know it does sound crazy but speaking with my dealership they would naturally favour customers who bought to keep, not to flip. This is logical ... As if they invited other retailers to purchase any limited run car they would naturally be creating competition for themselves, which makes no sense!

If we had a limited 400 run R400 how would VW create a fair market place ... Yes, for sure first come first served, but like with Porsche GT cars that is not enough, each owner is vetted by the dealership as every GT car is over subscribed with LOi's it's the only way they can minimise the risk of flippers and/or trade purchases ... Sure, you can flip your GT3/4 but you must flip into the dealer network to maintain your strong relationship for future cars, this is logical and makes sense from a Porsche perspective!

So, if VW are all of a sudden going to make Limited Run cars that sell for 20-30% more than list price they will have to follow similar protocols in order to maintain parity ... As a brand and also to there loyal customers which by the looks of it VW has many ... 

[scanesare]

On the other hand, the announced turn towards EV's and hybrids does not exactly leave much hope for exceptionally powerful (and expensive) petrol models. A lot of people already complain that R / Clubsport money is a lot for a VW hatch (I don't agree but I'm not the majority) and a supposed R400 wouldn't normally come cheaper than those, would it?

In any case the R400 discussion is too theoretical to even assume it would be of interest. If it is just an R with 400 bhp I couldn't be less interested. Now a revised, track-focused chassis based on the Clubsport, with proper AWD  (open centre diff, real torque vectoring) and not just another Haldex implementation with the necessary styling could be tempting...

[jjgreenwood]

I think R400 died a death because they were worried about stepping on Audi's toes as 4WD RS product is their domain.

Also the S project is a major departure for VW and the Clubsport brand is a new thing so it remains to be seen whether it happens again. Either way its a fairly safe bet that we probably won't see another special edition before GTI's 45th anniversary given past form. VW has made plenty of limited run cars before and none of them have sold for more than list - there are less Pirelli editions than Clubsport S I think - granted it wasn't any different to a "normal" edition 30 apart from aesthetics. Given the S is shipping 2-3 months later than planned I wouldn't hold up hopes there will be regular lines of Porsche GT style cars.

[GT4]

I think the CS-S has caught VW out in many ways ... very average PR surrounding the car, only a few demo cars for the press across Europe, sell out before launch, air con or no air con, allocation of colours, delivery schedules etc etc etc ... I honestly don't think that VW had any idea about the success of the car but in a way it makes it feel more unique and special ... let's hope when the cars finally arrive they drive as good as the hype ... 😏

[matchboy]

Match boy - I know it does sound crazy but speaking with my dealership they would naturally favour customers who bought to keep, not to flip. This is logical ... As if they invited other retailers to purchase any limited run car they would naturally be creating competition for themselves, which makes no sense!

If we had a limited 400 run R400 how would VW create a fair market place ... Yes, for sure first come first served, but like with Porsche GT cars that is not enough, each owner is vetted by the dealership as every GT car is over subscribed with LOi's it's the only way they can minimise the risk of flippers and/or trade purchases ... Sure, you can flip your GT3/4 but you must flip into the dealer network to maintain your strong relationship for future cars, this is logical and makes sense from a Porsche perspective!

So, if VW are all of a sudden going to make Limited Run cars that sell for 20-30% more than list price they will have to follow similar protocols in order to maintain parity ... As a brand and also to there loyal customers which by the looks of it VW has many ... 

A dealership would of course favour repeat business, especially when you've built up a relationship with that dealer over the years - but if those who have bought various VW's before don't want an R400 then they'll sell it to anyone who comes in off the street - they want to sell cars, pure and simple.  There is absolutely no way it would be limited to people who have owned a CS-S or an R or any other performance Golf, just won't happen.  Look at the CS-S - that's a limited run and anyone could buy one of those if they got in quick enough.  Same would happen to the R400 (not that I think it will ever go into production, more's the shame).

This fable that high end dealers refuse to sell to the general public is also nonsense.  Quick story: my brother with his first Ferrari went into the dealership and was told in no uncertain terms that (I think it was when the 458 Italia first came out) that it would only be sold to previous Ferrari owners and not to just anyone (he went in unshaven, in jeans and a t-shirt).  He told them he'd pay the whole balance there and then.  Funny enough he got one of the first that came into the country.  Money talks, all dealers want to sell cars, period.  This illusion that they only sell to certain people is a load of nonsense (bar maybe £1m + cars).

PS.  Ferrari also told him that they don't do discounts.  He got over £10k off in the end.  It's all about selling cars!

[GT4]

i do agree with you Match boy to a degree, but your point that dealers sell to anyone is not true - sure their will always be exceptions but when a dealer knows that an Individual is purely speculating and they just walk through the door expecting to get a car to flip, they will be very fortunate to get an allocation - hence Ferrari's and Porsches program. Which may not be perfect but tries to be biased to loyal customers. I would not have got a GT4 if i hadn't already bought a GTS and for sure wouldn't get a Gen2 991 GT3 without buying GTS and GT4 ... I live on a street with Lambo Aventador, 458 Speciale, 458 Italia, two McLarens, 991 Turbo, 997 Turbo, GT4, 430 and numerous Bentleys and Range Rovers - my direct neighbour wanted the new Ferrari and said would pay cash and was told he needs to buy 3 Approved Ferrari's before he gets dibs on new Models ... Maybe he is purely unlucky but speaking to other neighbours has found the same thing .... I think your brother was very lucky and the exception, not the rule ...?!!

[matchboy]

i do agree with you Match boy to a degree, but your point that dealers sell to anyone is not true - sure their will always be exceptions but when a dealer knows that an Individual is purely speculating and they just walk through the door expecting to get a car to flip, they will be very fortunate to get an allocation - hence Ferrari's and Porsches program. Which may not be perfect but tries to be biased to loyal customers. I would not have got a GT4 if i hadn't already bought a GTS and for sure wouldn't get a Gen2 991 GT3 without buying GTS and GT4 ... I live on a street with Lambo Aventador, 458 Speciale, 458 Italia, two McLarens, 991 Turbo, 997 Turbo, GT4, 430 and numerous Bentleys and Range Rovers - my direct neighbour wanted the new Ferrari and said would pay cash and was told he needs to buy 3 Approved Ferrari's before he gets dibs on new Models ... Maybe he is purely unlucky but speaking to other neighbours has found the same thing .... I think your brother was very lucky and the exception, not the rule ...?!!

I do agree with you that dealers will always look to sell to repeat customers, but it isn't out of loyalty - its because they know that person is loyal/enjoys that particular brand of car, and its an easier sale.  If the R400 was to be made I know the chap at the VW dealership I've dealt with for years would be straight on the phone to try and sell me one - not because he's loyal to me, but because he knows I'd snap one up straight away, so it would be the easiest sale he'd make that day! I also agree that Ferrari etc try to add an air of prestige when a customer comes in off the street - however, if they've got the money they will sell the car - they want a sale, pure and simple.

I can't comment on your neighbours and whether my brother was lucky or not - I've never been in the situation of buying one of those types of cars and never will be    I will say though, when I was looking at getting a Porsche I was offered a GT4 (same colour as yours which is why I was drooling over your pics!) - and I'd never owned a Porsche before, ever.  Unfortunately, it was well out of my price bracket  - the point being however that I'd never owned a Porsche and the dealer went out of his way to sell me it ie. he just wanted a sale.

PS. Impressive line up of awesome cars on your street!

[jjgreenwood]

Not every dealer is the same and some are quicker off the mark than others. As soon as Clubsport S info was requested from VW we phoned everyone on our database who we thought would be interested and put their details through to VW. This enabled us to get allocation of 4 units in the customer's colour choice. I have heard of dealers which don't do this, or just take details of customers and then wait around until the cars are available for order in the hope that they end up with allocation. These were not standard allocation so without being so proactive we would not have had the cars. Most cars are allocated to dealers via build slots and therefore its up to the dealer what they do with their allocation. There is no reason for 2 dealers to hold the same policy.

Lets be honest though, for most dealers it makes sense to sell allocation prioritising existing customers.

[GT4]

i do agree with you Match boy to a degree, but your point that dealers sell to anyone is not true - sure their will always be exceptions but when a dealer knows that an Individual is purely speculating and they just walk through the door expecting to get a car to flip, they will be very fortunate to get an allocation - hence Ferrari's and Porsches program. Which may not be perfect but tries to be biased to loyal customers. I would not have got a GT4 if i hadn't already bought a GTS and for sure wouldn't get a Gen2 991 GT3 without buying GTS and GT4 ... I live on a street with Lambo Aventador, 458 Speciale, 458 Italia, two McLarens, 991 Turbo, 997 Turbo, GT4, 430 and numerous Bentleys and Range Rovers - my direct neighbour wanted the new Ferrari and said would pay cash and was told he needs to buy 3 Approved Ferrari's before he gets dibs on new Models ... Maybe he is purely unlucky but speaking to other neighbours has found the same thing .... I think your brother was very lucky and the exception, not the rule ...?!!

I do agree with you that dealers will always look to sell to repeat customers, but it isn't out of loyalty - its because they know that person is loyal/enjoys that particular brand of car, and its an easier sale.  If the R400 was to be made I know the chap at the VW dealership I've dealt with for years would be straight on the phone to try and sell me one - not because he's loyal to me, but because he knows I'd snap one up straight away, so it would be the easiest sale he'd make that day! I also agree that Ferrari etc try to add an air of prestige when a customer comes in off the street - however, if they've got the money they will sell the car - they want a sale, pure and simple.

I can't comment on your neighbours and whether my brother was lucky or not - I've never been in the situation of buying one of those types of cars and never will be    I will say though, when I was looking at getting a Porsche I was offered a GT4 (same colour as yours which is why I was drooling over your pics!) - and I'd never owned a Porsche before, ever.  Unfortunately, it was well out of my price bracket  - the point being however that I'd never owned a Porsche and the dealer went out of his way to sell me it ie. he just wanted a sale.

PS. Impressive line up of awesome cars on your street!

Yep Match Boy ... We should have our own car club or YouTube site ... Haha  The Lambo is the best by far, its a Limited edition one so i gather, as I'm not a Lambo aficionado  :roll eyes: Its Matt Black and Grey with Carbon Fibre everywhere, he also has the 458 Speciale which he just leaves out on the drive ...  The McLaren makes the best noise, you can hear it start up in the garage and wait for it to come past the house, we live on a cul-de-sac so anything in has to come out so great for viewing the cars ... I am the Poor relation with the GT4 ... 
I also forgot, one guy is building his own TR6 from scratch so that should awesome when finally built