Anyone used one of these??

[mcmaddy]

"You honestly don't have a clue" - good way to get potential buyers from a forum.

People are more clued up than you think Andrew! And it's funny that's not what you told me a couple of years ago about your boxes and using dte base files but I'm not on here to slag you or anyone off just looking at all angles. So with your dtuk box you wouldn't have to have it hitting your headline figures as advertised on your website, the different incremental changes will give varying outputs?

[monkeyhanger]

Chris: The +/- increments of the Trevor box and even the 3 different programs all had noticeable differences to me when I tinkered.

I found 1+1 and 3+1 to be the best on my GTD (if I remember rightly without trawling through my old posts) - smoothest delivery and minimal regens, and you could certainly rein it back with lower settings. Sounds to me that you want the standard DTE files or similar on whatever box you get, but then you may be disappointed that an extra 35-40ps although noticeable doesn't transform the car.

With that in mind it'll be very doable to stick some mild enhancement maps on which keep the torque increase down, but most customers want the 86ps/90Nm increase and to hell with the clutch (until it slips) rather than a 40ps/30Nm increase which will be noticeable but easier on the clutch.

I've no idea what the safe limit is on a manual GTI/R clutch, but it doesn't seem to be much more than the standard output of 380Nm, i'm guessing 400Nm or thereabouts as the usual 430-450Nm GTI output seems to cause issues for some GTIs with reported clutch slip. I'm assuming that the GTI and R have the same clutch (which may or may not be a correct assumption).

It's probably no coincidence that the facelifted manual S3 has an extra 10ps but no more torque, even the DSG only has 10Nm more than the manual.

With all that in mind, i'm guessing that the safest remap/box gains are minimal on the additional torque.

[mcmaddy]

This seems to be the issue Matt and tuning companies always seem to show the headline grabbing figures. Maybe I'm the only one who wants a little bit extra but not stupid daft extra haha

[The ANT]

On a rolling road they'll get as much as it will give until the clutch slips a little then they'll turn it down a little.

[Andrew@DTUK]

This seems to be the issue Matt and tuning companies always seem to show the headline grabbing figures. Maybe I'm the only one who wants a little bit extra but not stupid daft extra haha

We used to quote 220/275hp on the golf, but unfortunately our competitors were only publishing the "headline figures", i agree that tuners should sell the "gain" rather than the "headline". But this isn't how things are done. If anyone asks us we tell them that the actual gain is 55/60ps and then explain our own findings and that of customers.

To answer your question above regarding the files, say for instance the amount of voltage removed is

0.6v, the original files and the data we continue to use would add an extra 0.01v per incremental change. DTE in their wisdom changed that to 0.025 and also reduced the base file down to 0.5v.

So for instance on a gti if the starting point was 0.6 on plus 2 its 0.8, or plus 3 its 0.9v..

The dte files now starts at 0.5 and on plus 2 becomes 0.55v, and on plus 3 becomes 0.575v..

The difference between 0.575v and 0.9v is massive, im sure Matt will work the % out, but to put it in context on the original S3 300PS file, the difference between 0.5v and 0.8v added an extra 20hp and 40nm..

The boxes used to have 4 files, the newer "trevor" boxes now have 3.. we would often only receive 1 files from DTE, sometimes 2 and if we were lucky 3.. We would develop our own files, and continue to do so.

The new owner of DTE made another change to the files and the protocol now is that

Map 1 is 100% of the original file with the small 0.025v increments

Map 2 is 80% of map 1

Map 3 is 100% but the cam duration is set to around 70% of map 1..

So the DTUK systems may use the same hardware, but the software is either pre new owner, or our own files. In fact it was ourselves that developed the files for the new 310ps 7 speed DSG found in the new S3 and facelifted golf R.

[Andrew@DTUK]

"You honestly don't have a clue" - good way to get potential buyers from a forum.

People are more clued up than you think Andrew! And it's funny that's not what you told me a couple of years ago about your boxes and using dte base files but I'm not on here to slag you or anyone off just looking at all angles. So with your dtuk box you wouldn't have to have it hitting your headline figures as advertised on your website, the different incremental changes will give varying outputs?

I have the original files that relate to this video if you would be happier with less power..

https://youtu.be/AwkvwGzwGKE

[monkeyhanger]

I was more than happy with the results on my DTUK'd GTD (it transformed the car), and on many other performance cars there may be quite a level of over-engineering on items such as the clutch which would show the strain (if any) first and so adding a box or remapping wouldn't be a bother.

Just seems that this time around, VW have put clutches into the performance petrol models that are "just enough". If I thought the R's clutch would take it, i'd be all over another box.

Is it difficult to up the power significantly with only a small torque gain or no torque gain with the way the boxes work? That might be more useful for the GTI/R on the stock clutch, especially as the R shines in the upper end of it's rev range anyway. Seems that this is the way Audi have gone with the 10ps increase on the manual S3's facelift.

As an aside, i'm curious what the clutch is like (in terms of resilience/over-engineering) on the wife's A1 1.6TDI 116ps. If I find out it hasn't got a chocolate clutch it'll almost certainly be getting a box on it.

[Exonian]

MH, the JB1 can easily be tuned to limit boost and thus torque at lower RPM's while maintaining a very good BHP gain at high revs.

I run a JB1 at a high torque setting (manual box) and haven't yet suffered torque so severe that slips the clutch.
I've been there with a mk5 TDI with a remap so know the score.

IF I detect any clutch slip I'll try a low boost setting but will more likely just sell the car then the box as I'm not prepared to compromise what I want out of a car nor do extensive mods such as an uprated clutch.
I'd rather drive a slower (on paper) car that was more fun than put up with a fast car that doesn't drive 100% as I want it.

Anyway, cutting through my waffle, if the JB1 can run a low torque map at low revs so can a DTUK as you will just need to lower the low speed boost via the settings and bring it in a bit further up the Rev range. That'll make both the turbo and clutch happier too.



PS, interesting facts on the Remus vs DTE vs DTUK points there from Andrew. I'd seen the Remus advertised a while back and noticed the casing and loom were unmistakably DTE.
Nice to know the facts about the maps the boxes run and the reasons why

[mcmaddy]

Thanks for the explanation Andrew much appreciated. Something to chew over now.

[Gnasher]

As has been said - hardware looks similar (although the Remus looms look overly complicated compared to the DTUK ones).

I've been running a DTUK box on my GTI PP (manual) and although I can't quote power figures, it feels bloody fast! So much so I managed to keep up with (and gain on) an S3 saloon (who was properly going for it) - obviously all up to the posted speed limit officer.

I would report that I have experienced a bit of clutch slip (twice in a couple of years of ownership). Both times this was after being in a massive queue for at least 30 minutes (stop start traffic - leaving a car show) and have had no other issues. It was also run in the heat of Cyprus with the DTUK box on for almost a year with no issues either.

Don't get me wrong - you have to take care not to drive it like someone who really doesn't have a clue (IE, lots of high gear, low revs and large throttle openings) which would give any clutch a hard time but in normal everyday driving (both steady and spirited) I've never had any other issues.

Really must get it on a rolling road to see what it's putting out! Andrew@DTUK - you guys running any soon lol?